Annealing Brass (Photo)

[l115a3]

I'm new for annealing brass.

So, need some commend about proper anneal.

.308 win Lapua Brass (2 fired)

All 3 brass was anneal with Butane Torch

The left was 12 Sec
The middle was 10 Sec
The right was 8 Sec

This photo was taken with flash

 

[sentry1]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

The left at 12 seconds looks like what I've seen out of the box on new, factory annealed Lapua brass, so it seems like that's your best bet. I'll wait for someone with more experience to weigh in though.

 

[doubled]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

from 6mmbr

Testing Cartridge Brass for Hardness and Softness
This is not a definitive test of case hardness; it is more of an illustration than anything else. It requires a pair of small Vise-Grips and a few bottle neck rifle cases in various conditions of use: a factory fresh empty case, two cases that have not split but have been fired many times, and a couple of extra cases to set the jaws of the Vice Grips.

Place one of the used cases base down in a shallow tray containing water up to the lower third of the case, and deliberately over-heat the case neck--bring it to a red heat.

Adjust the Vise-Grips until the jaws barely touch the case neck when they are fully closed. Then, Carefully adjust them to go a few thousands of an inch beyond that point. the jaws should close until you can just barely visibly detect that the case mouth is deformed when the Vise-Grips are closed.

Ordinary pliers are not good for this demonstration because it is too easy to go too far. Vise-Grips, on the other hand, have an adjustable limit to which they can be closed.

Squeeze the neck of the used, but un-annealed case. Note the pressure required. Also note that when the pressure is released, the case neck springs back to its original shape.

Squeeze the neck of the factory fresh case. Once again note that the case neck springs back to its original shape, and that it takes slightly less pressure to deform it than the un-annealed case.

Now, squeeze the annealed case. The pressure to deform it is markedly less and when it is released, the case mouth remains deformed--no spring.

One more test--stand the annealed case on a metal plate (no water over the base) and heat the upper half to a red heat. Hold the heat for a few seconds and then let it cool. Adjust the Vice-Grips so that they can put considerable squeeze on the head area and crush the annealed case. Now crush one of the normal used cases. The difference is dramatic. Don't test an over-annealed case in a gun just to see what happens--take my word for it, the results can be dangerous to life, limb and eye, not to mention the condition of the gun. Finally, crush all test cases so that they won't get mixed in with good brass

 

[CanSniper]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

From my limited experiance, trying to judge brass by how it looks after annealing is a good way to trash a bunch of brass.
I would bet that even the one at 8sec may be over cooked.

One way I have used to test my annealing is to first anneal a case then seat a bullet, then pull that same bullet. If you can then push the bullet back into the case by hand, you have taken all the "spring" out of the brass and it is over done. Also you will notice a difference in pressure it takes to seat and pull bullets on over annealed brass. What I did to get a "feel" for it was to purposly over and under anneal several sacrificial cases, then use the bullet pull and seat method to establish a baseline.

The method I have found that gets me the closest quikest is to anneal in a dark room and remove the cas at the slightest sign of the brass JUST starting to BARELY glow. Then after the brass cools try the seat and pull test. If done properly you will notice seating pressure is lessend and smoother than a work hardend piece. Then after pulling bullet you will not be able to push it back in the case by hand because it still has enough "spring" to return back close to its sized diameter.

I am not claiming to be an expert, but I have found that what I call properly annealed does not look any thing like factory Lapua brass. I think it is something in their process that gives that "look". But we are not after the "look". We want a properly annealed case, and I personaly dont think the two are the same.

 

[l115a3]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

If I anneal in dark room, do I need the heat brass nk glow little orange or have to stop before glow?

 

[l115a3]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

Another set of anneal brass

From left to right

6 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 8 , 8 (in sec.)

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

You should be careful not to over heat the case head. A thin stripe of 450 degree Tempilaq painted vertically on the case head will show you you're OK there. If the room is darkened you should get the case out of the flame about the time you see it begin to turn a dark red. Never let it get glowing red/orange.
I anneal my 308 Lapua with a Bench Source annealer with a timer that keeps the case spinning at the same rate and keeps it in the flame for a dialed in amount of time. It usually takes about 4.2 seconds to get it right.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I anneal in dark room, do I need the heat brass nk glow little orange or have to stop before glow? </div></div>
Very slight...maroon glow is a where I would start. Just barely detectable.
The second run of brass looks more like what I end up with.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

No, it is not necessary to have a machine.
I think you may have the brass to close to the flame, but just my opinion.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

Not to be a critic as looks like you did a good job. But I over annealed some lapua brass once and it took a hammer to open my bolt bc the brass stretched so much. Damn near ruined my rifle. Now only thing i anneal for is Winchester and Rp brass for my .300 win Mag where as I practiced on that alot!! I just couldn't get the proper "readings" I.e. Color change, on laupa brass where as if I put some Lyman brass polish on win or Rp brass and tumble a bit. I can see the stopping point while annealing very easily. I guess lapua is just different.
But yours looks good! I could never get my lapua to show proper colors

 

[l115a3]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

For Lapua brass, How many time can reloading without anneal case nk?

I cleaning with ultrasonic.

I run .30 Berger 185 LRBT @ 2,590 fps out of 24" barrel 1:10tw.

43.0 of Varget
COAL 2.905"
CCI BR2

 

[l115a3]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

These batch was 2 fired.

Should I anneal before reloading 3 time or can use 3 fired before anneal?

 

[CanSniper]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, it is not necessary to have a machine.
I think you may have the brass to close to the flame, but just my opinion.
</div></div>
I agree. Try moving it out of the center flame.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

Some BR match shooters I know anneal after every firing. Maybe an extreme there but I would do it every three to five firings.

 

[Rookie]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

I anneal all my rifle brass after every firing. Usually about 8 seconds gets it done for me.

 

[hdbiker1]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

Doesn't anyone use 750 degree Tempilaq inside the necks?

 

[mdesign]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should be careful not to over heat the case head. A thin stripe of 450 degree Tempilaq painted vertically on the case head will show you you're OK there. If the room is darkened you should get the case out of the flame about the time you see it begin to turn a dark red. Never let it get glowing red/orange.
I anneal my 308 Lapua with a Bench Source annealer with a timer that keeps the case spinning at the same rate and keeps it in the flame for a dialed in amount of time. It usually takes about 4.2 seconds to get it right. </div></div>

My experience says this is pretty close but instead of setting it up in a dark room, I use 650deg Tempilaq paint inside the neck. For me it was much more consistent method than red/org color. I would say my time was 4.5 - 5 sec and the finished result looks more like the OP cartridge on the right.

FWIW...I described it in an article I wrote on 6mmBr about the rifle in question. I now anneal once after I complete neck turning and then every 4 firings for the life of the brass.

Rifle Article

 

[mdesign]

Re: Annealing Brass (Photo)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't anyone use 750 degree Tempilaq inside the necks? </div></div>

Yes, I have tested it and would say I could see no difference(life of brass, runout, accuracy) between it and 650 deg. Using the finger crush method, I could not tell the brass was "softer" although I'm sure it would likely be if I had a better way to measure it.

I also tested to 1000F in 50 deg increments and would not recommend going above 750. The heat marks on the brass were much more noticeable (like the LH cartridge of OP) and the finger crush test indicated the necks were increasingly softer.