If I have loaded some 243 brass twice, some four times and some six times and I anneal all of them will each have the same neck tension or will it vary depending on how often its been reloaded?
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Annealing Brass Question
- Thread starter Capitol5868
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In theory they will. I doubt it ends up perfect like that though. Don’t shoot the 6x until the rest are caught up. Get them all on the same firing and treat them all the same going forward.
If you fully annealed them all it would soften them to be all the same. But apparently fully annealed is too soft and nobody knows exactly what a propper annealing is unless you use an AMP because an AMP is perfect and AMP is the answer for every annealing question. 
Just anneal them and go shoot. It'll be fine.
Just anneal them and go shoot. It'll be fine.
Plenty of people can tell if they aren’t retarded and contemplate what they are reading means.If you fully annealed them all it would soften them to be all the same. But apparently fully annealed is too soft and nobody knows exactly what a propper annealing is unless you use an AMP because an AMP is perfect and AMP is the answer for every annealing question.
Just anneal them and go shoot. It'll be fine.
It’s just a range so there is no one specific number.
Get it above 600 and the stresses will start to relieve. Use the 750 tempilaq like everyone says to and you’ll guarantee that you hit that dip in hardness with anything above that, within reason, you’ll be fine. Just don’t go where the tensile strength is less than the hardness.
When you can crush a case mouth and it doesn’t spring back too far you’ve over annealed. We don’t make it dead soft, we just relieve a little strain in the grain. We need interference fit between the brass and bullet which is referred to as bullet grip. If the brass isn’t gripping the bullet it’s not going to work as well as it could.
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I have been looking at the AMP out of curiosity. It seems like the "Easy Button" for use and consistency. I sense some disdain in your post, care to elaborate? Not meaning to hi jack.But apparently fully annealed is too soft and nobody knows exactly what a propper annealing is unless you use an AMP because an AMP is perfect and AMP is the answer for every annealing question.
Just anneal them and go shoot. It'll be fine.
Amp is a good machine.
also there are people who think that if you don’t use an amp you are just wasting your time and flame annealing is worthless.
other hand lots of people using flame annealing methods with plenty of success.
there is a lot of debate on the correct way to do this, get consistent results, etc but not a lot of hard data on the difference using each method to get consistent results and what actually matters .
The 750 Tempilaq seems like the way to go, esp with a machine that you can dial for consistency. Somebody somewhere came up with an aftermarket mod to an Annealeez that basically added a pressure regulator for the propane, that's the route I ended up going. Just run the machine too fast, and slow it down until your test case Tempilaq changes color, not looking to ruin any of my brass (can't mess up that perfect count of 500 cases lol).
Pretty much this.
Just getting it out of the way because its how every annealing thread goes.
Amp is a better mouse trap and easy button no doubt. They are the only ones who took a scientific approach to annealing. And you pay for it.
Its not the only way.
Annealing and case neck tension is a shot in the dark and theory. Shooters have determined case neck tension consistency is critical yet we dont have an accurate way to measure it aside from an arbor press & guage. we control case neck tension with annealing which we also dont have a way to measure. So we rely on best practices and folklore and resort to giving companies money to make a magic box to do it for us.
Case in point. "If you can crush a case with pliers its over annealed" thats our scientific way to measure annealing.
You can dig into the science all you want and geek out to max but it all boils down to resultsPretty much this.
Just getting it out of the way because its how every annealing thread goes.
Amp is a better mouse trap and easy button no doubt. They are the only ones who took a scientific approach to annealing. And you pay for it.
Its not the only way.
Annealing and case neck tension is a shot in the dark and theory. Shooters have determined case neck tension consistency is critical yet we dont have an accurate way to measure it aside from an arbor press & guage. we control case neck tension with annealing which we also dont have a way to measure. So we rely on best practices and folklore and resort to giving companies money to make a magic box to do it for us.
Case in point. "If you can crush a case with pliers its over annealed" thats our scientific way to measure annealing.
All I’m concerned about is three things.
Are your cases failing from neck splitting?
Is your ES/SD acceptable?
Are your cases sizing consistently regardless of amount of firings on it?
You can throw all the time and $$$$ at it or just do what I do, light up a cigar, brew up some espresso, fire up the torch and drill and get at it while watching an Ox tools Monday meatloaf episode or two.
We have accurate ways, we just don’t have economical ways. it’s only a shot in the dark if you don’t bother looking at anything.Pretty much this.
Just getting it out of the way because its how every annealing thread goes.
Amp is a better mouse trap and easy button no doubt. They are the only ones who took a scientific approach to annealing. And you pay for it.
Its not the only way.
Annealing and case neck tension is a shot in the dark and theory. Shooters have determined case neck tension consistency is critical yet we dont have an accurate way to measure it aside from an arbor press & guage. we control case neck tension with annealing which we also dont have a way to measure. So we rely on best practices and folklore and resort to giving companies money to make a magic box to do it for us.
Case in point. "If you can crush a case with pliers its over annealed" thats our scientific way to measure annealing.
It’s hard for anyone to measure any force precisely and accurately outside of a laboratory setting. But we don’t need a lab to tell us what we can tell on our own interactions with the process.
And we control case neck tension via many ways. Notice hardness is just one.
We should stop calling it neck tension and instead refer to it as bullet grip.
And yet the most emphasis is put on annealing and neck tension.
What is the rockwell hardness of your brass at the case neck and what is the coefficient of friction between your bullet and case neck?
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Exactly. As you stated, brass tension is simply one measurement of the whole, effecting the friction or resistance of the bullet to leave the case.
Chuck up a socket, drop the case into the socket, run the drill while you hold the case neck in a flame, tip the case out at some poorly defined moment. Repeat.
Its takes skill to be able to get it perfectly annealed using a drill. The key is a dark room and you want the color between crimson and cherry red. Thats between 650°F and 850°F and that puts you between 60 and 80 on the rockwell hardness scale.
There's some somewhat significant brass flow on the first several firings of a piece of brass, and, absent neck turning, you're going to get a somewhat different neck tension with the same bushing size. You can anneal and make the brass the same hardness, but it's not addressing everything.
