Annealing Brass

[Notso]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollerCam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a great article from 6MMbr: http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Looks like, as long as you're not annealing the BASE of the cartridge, you're fairly safe from catastrophic damage/injury. </div></div>
Yep, already read that.

I tried the trick to push the neck against a hard table, and while I can bend the case mouth if I push hard enough, it doesn't just collapse easily so I think I'm ok. I tried with an un-annealed case and it bends the case mouth only slightly harder than my my attempts at annealed ones.

I have a new torch head so I'm hoping that it's a little more precise.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I solved my annealing issues. The solution was DJ's Brass Restoration.
I just got almost 500 22-250 and 250 7WSM cases ultra sonic cleaned an annealed. The 22250 cases are 11 years old and have been FL sized (two different guns) at least 8 times. They look like new now.
I just don't have the time to do it myself. </div></div>

Same here...

I was going to send him my .223 brass but as i was showing my friend something i noticed that theres some head separation starting so I'm just gona scrap it all and buy some new brass.

But my brass is going to him for annealing just cuz of the ease. $15 to anneal 100 cases isnt so bad.

actually now that I think about it as I type this, for .223 its probably cheaper just to buy new brass after 3 firings haha cuz $20 for 100 i can use it 3 times, and i pay only $5 more for 100 new brass. I guess I'll see.

But Its definitely worth it if you have $2 a piece lapua brass for bigger calibers.

 

[reeljob]

Re: Annealing Brass

Hornady's new reloading edition says to place cases in water with the top inch above the water level and tip the cases immediately into the water as the neck turns pink while heating with a torch.

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Annealing Brass

I bought this earlier this year and have been exceptionally please with it. This thing is "FAST". I would go stir crazy waiting for the big wheel to go round and round.

Alan

http://www.cartridgeanneal.com/

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For $3 worth of plumbing fitting:

</div></div>

Komb, you don't happen to remember/know what size pipe nipples you used do you? Is it a 1/2" to 1/4" reducer? It should be marked on the reducer somewhere.

Thanks!

</div></div>

Scrap of aluminum and a few minutes on a lathe/end mill........

 

[Jerkface11]

Re: Annealing Brass

If you do water quench make absolutely sure your cases are dry before you size them! Unless you like pulling the rims off.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For $3 worth of plumbing fitting:

</div></div>

Komb, you don't happen to remember/know what size pipe nipples you used do you? Is it a 1/2" to 1/4" reducer? It should be marked on the reducer somewhere.

Thanks!

</div></div>

I don't know what size he used - looks 1/2 x 1/4, but I made one 3/8 x 1/4.


But now I just hold it in my fingers. It seems the calibration where the necks reach proper color and it becomes to hot too hold is perfect.

I use mapp not propane.

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Annealing Brass

tag

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

Can this Hornady kit deal with 338 Lapua?

Tnx!

 

[Carpenter07]

Re: Annealing Brass

I built this with some scrap steel, it's not very pretty but it works great. Simple design that doesn't require any electronics. I spent about $35.00 on torches and downloaded a free metronome app to time the process.

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can this Hornady kit deal with 338 Lapua?

Tnx! </div></div>

Nope. The largest shell holder that the kit comes with will fit .300wm brass, but not .338 lapua... doesnt even fit short magnums.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Annealing Brass

Interesting topic, didn't know anything about it before seeing this thread.

Can anyone offer actual proof from their own experience that annealing improves accuracy substantially? I don't mean benchrest competition shooter improvement, I mean weekend shooter measurable improvement.

I can afford new brass, and I am not really interested in adding more time making up the 600 rounds/month we use than I already spend.

I would try it if it provides real-world results for an average shooter...

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

Also, some people on this thread violently argued for avoiding water quenching - giving no other reason but that the "big guys" don't water-quench.

To me it says that one doesn't <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> to do water quenching - and it is obvious that the "big" ones are trying to simplify their process (when you're making billions of cases - half a cent saved on processing one can end up in a sizable amount). Whoever was quoting metallurgists - they seemed (judging by their quotes) to <span style="text-decoration: underline">allow</span> air drying rather than advising against water quenching.

So I've yet to hear one word of reason how water quenching could do any harm, or why it isn't every bit as good if not better than air-drying. Anybody...?

P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles.

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

A few things on annealing...

Brass is annealed for many reasons besides for adding life to brass for handloaders.

- Brass is annealed so that bottle neck cases dont split at the necks when they are formed, and also so that they dont split at the neck inside the chamber which can cause difficulty or failure to extract.

- Brass is annealed because it returns necks to a consistent neck tension when done properly. This consistency adds to consistent bullet release which adds to both accuracy and precision.

- Brass is annealed because it adds to brass longevity which adds savings in the long run to high volume shooters.

Even little 17hmr brass cases are annealed. The early ammo for this round caused considerable problems in some rifles because of a lack of annealing. Split necks were common and failures to eject are a pain in the ass when varmint hunting. The processes for annealing these little cases has improved, and whilst I still see split necks from time to time its more because one of the case makers has a different process to the others.... and even tho i have heard it all comes from CCI, i do not believe this info. I have seen a clearly distinct difference between CCI brass, hornady brass, remington brass and winchester brass.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Annealing Brass

Those looking for a source regarding water quenching vs air cooling of cartridge brass, check out ASM Specialty Handbook, Copper & Copper Alloys-ASM International, page 41, Table 5 "Mechanical Properties of Cartridge Brass (Cu-30Zn and Muntz Metal (Cu-40Zn), also see fig 20-21.
In short: Air cooling would be the best method, as water quenching does in fact effect the crystaline structure of cartridge brass.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In short: Air cooling would be the best method, <span style="font-style: italic">as water quenching does in fact effect the crystaline structure of cartridge brass.</span> </div></div>

As does annealing, in the first place......

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles. </div></div>

Then, this benefit would be for reloaders that neck-size only?

I can't see how it would eliminate (or mitigate) the case-stretching that's inherent in FL sizing? IOW, it wouldn't much matter if the neck's in great shape if the bottom of the case is still getting stretched out, right?

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass

So, I have a friend with an annealing machine. He is taking care of all my annealing now plus he has a big ultra sonic cleaner too.

 

[jmorris]

Re: Annealing Brass

I built this machine to anneal. It's fast, easy and makes the brass last longer even when I FL size.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass

Nice looking machine!

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles. </div></div>

Then, this benefit would be for reloaders that neck-size only?

I can't see how it would eliminate (or mitigate) the case-stretching that's inherent in FL sizing? IOW, it wouldn't much matter if the neck's in great shape if the bottom of the case is still getting stretched out, right? </div></div>

I dissagree.

Annealing gives more consistent neck tension, especially when the process is consistent and the brass is annealed after every firing.

This is a step towards top level accuracy if you ask me.

Seriously, look at Tom Sarvers world record 1000 yard group... brass was on its 58th firing and is annealed after every firing.

Its a world record, i think that in itself is proof that annealing is a big part of that record setter.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Annealing Brass

"P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles."

Disagree as well. There are benefits other than increasing brass life. Relieving spring back of the case neck thru annealing allows more precise neck tension and better accuracy.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles. </div></div>

Then, this benefit would be for reloaders that neck-size only?

I can't see how it would eliminate (or mitigate) the case-stretching that's inherent in FL sizing? IOW, it wouldn't much matter if the neck's in great shape if the bottom of the case is still getting stretched out, right? </div></div>

I dissagree.

Annealing gives more consistent neck tension, especially when the process is consistent and the brass is annealed after every firing.

This is a step towards top level accuracy if you ask me.

Seriously, look at Tom Sarvers world record 1000 yard group... brass was on its 58th firing and is annealed after every firing.

Its a world record, i think that in itself is proof that annealing is a big part of that record setter. </div></div>


Understood.
But I specifically asked about "weekend shooter" accuracy improvement, not "benchrest competition shooter" accuracy.

To each their own. Like all the extra work in SS media tumbling...I don't knock it for those that like to spend the extra time dealing with it.

For me, if I can't plainly see it on the paper, I'm not interested.

 

[jmorris]

Re: Annealing Brass



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
P.S. Annealing - as I understand it - is not as much an accuracy improver (though some people claim that) as brass saver, allowing brass to survive more reloading cycles. </div></div>

Then, this benefit would be for reloaders that neck-size only?

I can't see how it would eliminate (or mitigate) the case-stretching that's inherent in FL sizing? IOW, it wouldn't much matter if the neck's in great shape if the bottom of the case is still getting stretched out, right? </div></div>

I dissagree.

Annealing gives more consistent neck tension, especially when the process is consistent and the brass is annealed after every firing.

This is a step towards top level accuracy if you ask me.

Seriously, look at Tom Sarvers world record 1000 yard group... brass was on its 58th firing and is annealed after every firing.

Its a world record, i think that in itself is proof that annealing is a big part of that record setter. </div></div>


Understood.
But I specifically asked about "weekend shooter" accuracy improvement, not "benchrest competition shooter" accuracy.

To each their own. Like all the extra work in SS media tumbling...I don't knock it for those that like to spend the extra time dealing with it.

For me, if I can't plainly see it on the paper, I'm not interested. </div></div>

Improvement is improvement. Annealing really dosen't add much time to my process. The annealing machine does it's job faster than I can trim (using a dillon trimmer on a 650) and load (using a bulletfed/autodrive 1050). With the right equipment its more of a "why not" than "why".

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Understood.
But I specifically asked about "weekend shooter" accuracy improvement, not "benchrest competition shooter" accuracy.

To each their own. Like all the extra work in SS media tumbling...I don't knock it for those that like to spend the extra time dealing with it.

For me, if I can't plainly see it on the paper, I'm not interested. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can afford new brass, and I am not really interested in adding more time making up the 600 rounds/month we use than I already spend.

I would try it if it provides real-world results for an average shooter...</div></div>

The new brass you can afford (more money than brains IMO)is annealed when you first get it.....just sayin'.

I suggest you realize that there is a contingent of us "average shooters" who anneal mainly so we can avoid buying new brass every time we need ammo. Frugal would be a relevant term to apply, maybe parsimonious. We're just not lazy enough to avoid making our investment in components stretch as far as possible. Personally I like "affording" more bullets/powder/primers and not having to buy brass all the time.

We find annealing appealing because we tend to shoot our brass often enough that work hardening levies enough of a detriment upon our methodology and are simply not willing to just throw more money at the problem.....thereby elevating us beyond your insidious context of "weekend shooter", if only because we shoot a lot.

Those of us "average shooters" who can comprehend the subtle amenity of annealing appreciate that a competent process of annealing will by default offer a level of consistancy in such things as neck tension as brass accumulates progressive firings, not to mention the benifit of enjoying a quantity of firings with truely fireformed brass.

I equate my rifle/reloading system with; first having a quality knife, and then keeping it razor sharp at all times. Annealing is just part of what I do, and I'm the furthest you'll find from the benchrest game.

Feel free to forget all about annealing as I'm sure it's not for you........

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Annealing Brass

As is typical here often, anyone that dares to question something that's the "holy grail" gets an earful.

The cost of brass is inconsequential to my shooting, given that it's all .223 and .308, and not .338 Lapua magnum. I load five times, the set them aside. That's how I do it, everyone's MMV.

You didn't respond to my main question.

Do you have demonstrable proof, in the form of targets you've shot personally, that annealing your brass has helped your accuracy?

It's a simple question. If someone has tested their own accuracy, with and without re-annealing their brass. If they have, I'm genuinely interested in hearing about it.

If you haven't done such a test, just don't respond.

I didn't ask for your lecture.

 

[rymart]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can this Hornady kit deal with 338 Lapua?

Tnx! </div></div>

Not 'as sold', but you can machine/drill out the largest holder to fit Lapua brass.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Annealing Brass

Why the hard on against annealing dude?

There's noone holding a gun to your head, so don't anneal if you don't want to, don't even give it another thought.

Glad you're a rich bitch and can afford replacing your brass on a whim..........

 

[Carpenter07]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Do you have demonstrable proof, in the form of targets you've shot personally, that annealing your brass has helped your accuracy?
</div></div>

Here's my story...
The first good load I came up with for my 7mag would shoot really nice groups. All of the sudden my groups really opened up and I could not figure out why. I was using the same lot of powder, bullets primers and my reloading process was the same every time, I try to keep my shooting technique as consistent as I can. I heard that your brass can get work hardened, especially with hot loads. I had no means of annealing at the time so I bought 50 new pcs of nosler brass and my groups tightened up again. I assumed my used brass was work hardened, so I built my simple machine pictured above and started annealing after every firing. The original lot of brass started holding good groups again. I suppose not very scientific, but I'm convinced. Not to mention it takes me about 5 minutes to anneal 50 pcs of brass, including set up time.

Ray

 

[Supersubes]

Re: Annealing Brass

I started annealing recently. For the last few years i had been shooting a .260. I had a fairly large lot of virgin brass and loaded it 5-6 times and then threw it away. I had fired several thousand rounds through it. Always amazing accuracy.

I switched to 6.5-47L, and while it was accurate, never seemed to give me the screamer groups the .260 did.

I have been working with about 300 47L cases for a while now and I decided to anneal for the 9th firing. A few hundred rounds later, i can say for certain that my accuracy is much improved. I actually fired several personal best groups using annealed case with the new ammo.

Today at the range I chronoed the load which traditionally has ES's in the mid teens and single digit SD's. That is with charges thrown directly from the meausure. I don't do any fancy prep or sorting of virgen brass or bullets.

String 34
1) 2834.0 -0.8
2) 2835.0 0.2
3) 2834.0 -0.8
4) 2838.0 3.2
5) 2833.0 -1.8

High: 2838.0
Low: 2833.0
E.S.: 5.0
Ave.: 2834.8
S.D.: 1.9
95%: ±2.6

I spin my cases in a drill using a holder like the ones shown above. I heat them with a propane torch on a 1 quart bottle. I bought both as a set from Home Depot. I do it in a well lit room. At about 4.5 seconds the brass begins taking a maroon red color (not glowing) and by 5 seconds it is pulled from the flame. It takes on an immediate light blue/purple hue. I tip the drill over and drop the cases onto a dry towel. Never once have i seen the towel char.

During the seating operation I can feel the neck tension is much more consistent. I think the .260 I had before wasnt pressed very hard due to the soft brass and short life span. Cases like the 338LM and 47L are very high pressure chamberings and the brass suffers. I probably should have tried annealing on my 338LM before I sold it. Thinking back, it acted a lot like the 47 in that I never got the accuracy I thought I should have.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TikkaSporter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can this Hornady kit deal with 338 Lapua?

Tnx! </div></div>
Not 'as sold', but you can machine/drill out the largest holder to fit Lapua brass. </div></div>
Would that holder be large enough to hold the 338 Lapua case, and to screen "enough" of it from the flame/heat?

P.S. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Improvement is improvement. Annealing really dosen't add much time to my process. The annealing machine does it's job faster than I can trim (using a dillon trimmer on a 650) and load (using a bulletfed/autodrive 1050). With the right equipment its more of a "why not" than "why".</div></div>
The "why not" could be (a) cost of the machine (many of us are limited in budget - arguable since one may save on the brass what you spend on the annealing machine, but a lot of time may pass by before this "investment" "recoups"), (b) size of the machine (some of us have very limited real estate on the reloading bench, and few places to store bulk-ish equipment), (c) fear of a new process that needs to be mastered and tuned up before one just cranks out annealed cases by the dozen. That's my take...

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wannashootit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You didn't respond to my main question.

Do you have demonstrable proof, in the form of targets you've shot personally, that annealing your brass has helped your accuracy?

It's a simple question. If someone has tested their own accuracy, with and without re-annealing their brass. If they have, I'm genuinely interested in hearing about it.

If you haven't done such a test, just don't respond.

I didn't ask for your lecture. </div></div>

Yes I have proof.

I have taken virgin brass, and formed it. I have found loads that give me 0.5 to 1" groups at 400 yards... not 1MOA, im taking 1 inch group.

Fast forward that brass to about 2 firings later and that group is now 4 to 5" in size at 400 yards.

Now...

Are you after bench rest accuracy out of your rifle? If you answer yes, then you should look into annealing.

If you dont, and you get flyers everywhere, well then dont ask why this keeps coming up.

If you dont need bench rest accuracy and you just want to punch paper at 100 yards or shoot game and rock throwing distances... then dont anneal.

Its really that simple.

 

[jmorris]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "why not" could be (a) cost of the machine (many of us are limited in budget - arguable since one may save on the brass what you spend on the annealing machine, but a lot of time may pass by before this "investment" "recoups"), (b) size of the machine (some of us have very limited real estate on the reloading bench, and few places to store bulk-ish equipment), (c) fear of a new process that needs to be mastered and tuned up before one just cranks out annealed cases by the dozen. That's my take...</div></div>

I built the one I have and I sell the blade and scale drawings of the top plate, drive wheel and torch arms for $60. If you have DIY skills you can have an automated annealer for a fraction of what others cost.

If you are the builder you could make it less than 3" think and just set it on top of a bucket when in use and on a book shelf when not.

Can't argue with fear but we are talking about making ammunition here. I guess the same could be said about progressive presses.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The "why not" could be (a) cost of the machine (many of us are limited in budget - arguable since one may save on the brass what you spend on the annealing machine, but a lot of time may pass by before this "investment" "recoups"), (b) size of the machine (some of us have very limited real estate on the reloading bench, and few places to store bulk-ish equipment), (c) fear of a new process that needs to be mastered and tuned up before one just cranks out annealed cases by the dozen. That's my take... </div></div>

a.) You do not need a "machine".

b.) If you have space on a bench to make ammo in the first place, then you have space to anneal.

c.) Fear? yer kidding right? Practice on some old trashed brass so you don't risk trashing your good stuff, until you master the technique of time vs. temp. If you can reload ammo, shoot, brush your teeth, walk and chew gum at the same time, feed yourself, etc.....then you already have the skill set needed to anneal brass.

 

[hill billy]

Re: Annealing Brass

This is a simple equation. Accuracy may be defined as consistency. Consistency is directly related to consistent neck tension. It's hard to have consistent neck tension with inconsistent material. Pretty simple.

I anneal because my 7wsm necks were splitting at 3 firings. I am now on my 12th firing and looking good. I water quench and have seen no ill effects. YOU might be rich, I don't have the coin to drop $50 or $60 on brass every three weeks.

Anybody have the link to that copper tube fixture that encircled the neck for those doing it by hand?

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

Thats called Annealing by induction

http://www.theinductor.com/

 

[hill billy]

Re: Annealing Brass

Nope, that's not it.

I found it. It's made by Woodchuck Den.

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

Is that the little $48 contraption that replaces the propane head?

Ohhhhhh i thought you were talking about the miniductor machine... ive seen it on a timer and looks pretty neat

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[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

vman, this is great! The only scary part is the price. Mini-Ductor is $350 (cheapest I saw) and up, the typical kits between $450 and $550, some stores offer them for $660+. And that's <span style="text-decoration: underline">without</span> the timer circuitry.

But the idea is <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> attractive. I'll try to cough up the money from the already-tight family budget.

If I'm correct - the wattage doesn't really matter because we're not melting 1/2 inch bolts, right? So it can't really be "underpowered" for annealing purposes?

 

[hill billy]

Re: Annealing Brass

All the whiz bang machines are super nice but they are $$$. I'm not against dropping serious money on tools but in reality, I anneal maybe 200 cases a month, doing it by hand is just more worth it right now.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All the whiz bang machines are super nice but they are $$$. I'm not against dropping serious money on tools but in reality, I anneal maybe 200 cases a month, doing it by hand is just more worth it right now. </div></div>
Yeah - but I can hardly call an electric torch ("Mini-Ductor") a whiz-bang!

Doing it by hand (and using metronome as an audible timer) seems the best. I'm thinking if I can use my gas stove in the kitchen (assuming my wife doesn't kill me for that

).

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

I think doing it by hand is fine... Only reason I like machinery is because im anal and like consistency, and because I like having cool gadgets

hehehe

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think doing it by hand is fine... Only reason I like machinery is because im anal and like consistency, and because I like having cool gadgets

hehehe </div></div>
Ah, so do I - when I can afford the gadgets!

Let me repeat my question: is it important what the heat source is? In particular - can I use kitchen stove (natural gas)? Or is its flame too hot and I really need that propane torch (I think burning temperature of propane is close enough to methane or whatever the "natural gas" consists of)?

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

Tag? Is the idea to use natural gas flame (kitchen stove) too silly to even explain why? Brass isn't gold-expensive, but it isn't cheap and I'd rather not waste brass (or money) if somebody already went that route and can share good or bad experience with it.

Talk to me!

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

Dont understand why it would not be adequate...

not too sure on the temp difference.

But people have annealed by gas, induction and induction via molten lead... i see no reason why using a stove would not work.

If in doubt, use some tempilaq on the case body and heat the necks on the stove. If the necks sufficiently anneal and the case head is unscathed then i guess your all good.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont understand why it would not be adequate...</div></div>
Heat "intensity" (amount of heat natural gas flame would transmit to the object being heated in a unit of time?) and (related to it?) flame temperature are the only reasons I could think of (but being familiar with the word "metallurgy" is the limit of my knowledge of properties of metals!

).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not too sure on the temp difference.</div></div>
I don't know - that's why I'm screaming for help! (To avoid burning a few cases. Not that they're that expensive - just don't want to destroy them because of user's stupidity.

)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But people have annealed by gas, induction and induction via molten lead... i see no reason why using a stove would not work.</div></div>
I see. This gives me encouragement to try. Starting with 308 of course - not 338 Lapua. Needless to say, I'll post my results here. (I will use either deep sockets or plumbing parts for holders, tempilaq for control, metronome on iTouch to help keeping time.)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If in doubt, use some tempilaq on the case body and heat the necks on the stove. If the necks sufficiently anneal and the case head is unscathed then i guess your all good. </div></div>
Yes! How could I forget Tempilaq! Thank you for reminding me!!! (I feel silly - but not as silly as I would if I burned the case!

)

Thanks!

 

[DJ1075]

Re: Annealing Brass

hope this helps you mouse07410
propane is twice as hot as natural gas and map gas the yellow bottles is even hotter then propane. you can use your stove its just going to take you a little longer then a gas torch.
the higher the btu means less flame time you need to anneal brass.
so you may have to anneal your brass for 7-8 seconds on a stove instead of say 5 seconds with a gas torch. you just have to play with the annealing time with some brass to get your feel of it.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Annealing Brass

This is how I anneal brass.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/190rC0iTN5M"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/190rC0iTN5M" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[EWP]

Re: Annealing Brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is how I anneal brass.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/190rC0iTN5M"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/190rC0iTN5M" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
</div></div>

That brass is by all accounts ruined(1000+ degree), the brass should never glow orange/red or any other shade, the brass will be dead soft and you will never be able to get proper neck tension again.

Will the brass still work? sure it will but all of the springiness of the brass is lost and no amount of sizing or firing will ever get it back.

That video is a perfect example of how NOT to anneal brass.

 

[vman]

Re: Annealing Brass

Bacarrat out of curiosity what are your groups like and do you do any long range shooting, and if so what results do you get.