Another AR-15 trigger question

[majtii]

I've been searching but haven't found the answer or my Google fu isn't working.

Want a new trigger for my AR-15. 2-stage triggers seems nice when reading about them but the few I've tried didn't fit me.
Think I want a trigger that feels like a 1911 with a good trigger job. That would be a light pre-travel with around 2 lbs breaking glass, no overtravel and short reset.

Feels like there is thousands of triggers out there. Which one am I looking for?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Look at the Hiperfire 24E or the 243G depending on your needs.

HIPERFIRE® - High Performance Firearm Accessories

 

[SWThomas]

Geissele 3 gun trigger. Or you can get a Geissele High Speed trigger and adjust it to be single stage.

 

[Regalkismet]

If you are set on a 2 lb trigger choices are limited...a trigger that light in an AR can be an issue.... Possibly check AR Gold, Jard, and Jewell... Personally I'm a Fan of the Wilson Combat TTU'S in both single and 2 stage..... But they are closer to 3-4 lbs..... Even my Geissele S3g is 3 lbs....

 

[ipsick]

...Think I want a trigger that feels like a 1911 with a good trigger job. That would be a light pre-travel with around 2 lbs breaking glass, no overtravel and short reset.

Which one am I looking for?

AR Gold is THE only one that fits your custom 1911 trigger criteria. If this is truly what you want in a trigger, do not consider any others. There are other nice AR-15 triggers but none of them feel like a custom 1911 in AR format. If someone tells you otherwise they have either never tried the AR Gold or never tried a custom 1911 trigger. Or they could be lying or don't know what they're talking about. Sorry to be so blunt but I've read posts where such and such trigger feels like a 1911 and when I try them they feel nothing like one.

Here's my summary,

AR Gold = Custom 1911 trigger

Geissele S3G = Ultra smooth Glock trigger

Wilson TTU single stage = about as close to a bolt action trigger in an AR-15 as you're going to get.

Geissele Hi-Speed = one of, if not the best "traditional" 2-stage trigger

I've tried the other Geissele flavors but don't feel like they're worth mentioning. In single stage (AR-type and feel), other than the Wilson TTU, I really like the CMC and JP.

I have not yet tried Hiperfire, Jard, Jewell, or Timney. There are also some other lesser known ones I'd like to try like Accuracy Speaks and AP Custom Rhino.

 

[W8-2112]

AR Gold is THE only one that fits your custom 1911 trigger criteria. If this is truly what you want in a trigger, do not consider any others. There are other nice AR-15 triggers but none of them feel like a custom 1911 in AR format. If someone tells you otherwise they have either never tried the AR Gold or never tried a custom 1911 trigger. Or they could be lying or don't know what they're talking about. Sorry to be so blunt but I've read posts where such and such trigger feels like a 1911 and when I try them they feel nothing like one.

Here's my summary,

AR Gold = Custom 1911 trigger

Geissele S3G = Ultra smooth Glock trigger

Wilson TTU single stage = about as close to a bolt action trigger in an AR-15 as you're going to get.

Geissele Hi-Speed = one of, if not the best "traditional" 2-stage trigger

I've tried the other Geissele flavors but don't feel like they're worth mentioning. In single stage (AR-type and feel), other than the Wilson TTU, I really like the CMC and JP.

I have not yet tried Hiperfire, Jard, Jewell, or Timney. There are also some other lesser known ones I'd like to try like Accuracy Speaks and AP Custom Rhino.

majtii, I understand you being overwhelmed because there are so many options and mixed reviews. I have to agree with ipsick on his list of triggers in regards to what you are looking for. I however, would like to add Jewell to the list because I had one that I polished and set it up like a light single stage that would meet your criteria but at 3lbs.

 

[shooter545]

+1 on the AR Gold. I bought one for my 3 gun rifle on a whim and now own 4. They are pricey but dang they are good.

 

[Flyboy22]

Geissele High Speed National Match gets my vote. The ultra-quick lock time makes a real difference, and the break is like glass. The Match variant would probably suit your needs most closely.

 

[jasonfaz]

The AR Gold seemed like fool's gold to me. Sold it immediately. I throw Geissele SD3Gs in mine. Technically it's 3lbs on the pull weight, but it feels like 2.5lbs. Not a trigger out there that's faster. That said, triggers are hard to recommend. I've had people shoot the SD3G and they hate it. It's almost like choosing a woman. We like all of them, each has a unique quality, but which one do we choose? Might as well try all of them...

 

[W8-2112]

The AR Gold seemed like fool's gold to me. Sold it immediately. I throw Geissele SD3Gs in mine. Technically it's 3lbs on the pull weight, but it feels like 2.5lbs. Not a trigger out there that's faster. That said, triggers are hard to recommend. I've had people shoot the SD3G and they hate it. It's almost like choosing a woman. We like all of them, each has a unique quality, but which one do we choose? Might as well try all of them...

jasonfaz, you hit it on the head with that individual opinion. I have done multiple trigger jobs on many different firearms and every shooter has there own preference or description of what what the pull should be.

majtii, for example; you said you wanted a 2lb trigger and to me that is dangerously light and I wont go below 3.5 on my firearms but to you my rifle pull might feel to heavy even though I would still recommend it to anyone who asks about it.

Its all a matter of opinion and what works best for you for that particular application. Just be sure if you get an adjustable trigger you set the sear engagement correctly or else you may end up with a full auto rifle and not the fun kind.

 

[majtii]

Thanks for the input, much appreciated. Keep it comming.
Hiperfire is new to me. Wilsons and AR Gold needs a closer look.

This thread proves it, info on triggers is conflicting and confusing. It's down to personal preferenceses, that's why it's difficult to just read about them.
2lbs trigger is not written in stone, up to 3lbs is OK as long as it's clean and crisp. Rifle is for competition 3-gun/IPSC so safety by "trigger weight" is of no concern.

Tried the Geissele that comes with STAG 3G. That's an example of what I DON'T want. It was to "mushy" and my question is if all 2-stage are like this, more or less.
Jard got a nice price tag, are one of their models worth looking at?

Ipsick: I have a feeling You undertstand what I'm looking for.

 

[wusscvr]

Hiperfire E fits all your criteria along with ensuring enough force is being transferred to the firing pin.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Rob01]

Another vote for AR Gold. Had a couple Timneys, Geissele SSA-E, CMC and POF triggers but the AR Gold is by far my favorite. The price isn't cheap but they are worth it.

The other trigger I would recommend is the Hiperfire 24E. Only reason over the 24C is that I like the trigger shoe feel better but either will work well.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

The other trigger I would recommend is the Hiperfire 24E. Only reason over the 24C is that I like the trigger shoe feel better but either will work well.

You should try the 243G then, its basically the 24c but with a traditional trigger shoe. I'm running one and it's the bee's knees.

As an aside, I know everyone tends to promote the item(s) they use or bought over others, its human nature. However, I was at an AR manufacturers(as opposed to builder/assembler) shop the other day and as we were assembling my specific gun. He had several lowers with many of the triggers mentioned here in them on the wall. Naturally I compared them one after another side by side with the hiperfire 24E I have in my lower. I will say that many of the triggers mentioned here are very similar, the margin of difference isn't night and day like it is between OEM triggers and aftermarket triggers, it's more like degrees of difference, some of it quantifiable perhaps only by feel/perception. After finger fucking all the different triggers, I ultimately came back to the Hiperfire but with the Geissele flat trigger bow a close second to the feel I like. The flat trigger bow was one of the reasons I wasn't keen on it but the break was close to what I prefer which is the Hiperfire 24 triggers. I've never had the opportunity to test all of these triggers side by side like that one after another and be able to compare them seconds apart from one another. It was an eye opener as to how similar some of them are to one another and in a few cases, different ( 2 stage triggers) from one another when dealing with performance specific triggers.

 

[Rob01]

You should try the 243G then, its basically the 24c but with a traditional trigger shoe. I'm running one and it's the bee's knees.

Will have to check them out at the Hiperfire tent next time I see them at a match. The 24 3Gs weren't on their site last time I was there about a month ago. A very good addition for people like me who like the more traditional curved trigger. The Hiperfire triggers are very nice.

 

[jasonfaz]

I would agree with Papa Zero Three to an extent. In my experience, dry firing triggers and feeling out the breaks and resets will tell you a lot, but I've been surprised in some cases running the trigger through live fire with respect to how the trigger feels overall. The Geissele 3G/SD3G for example feels dramatically different when running through a mag compared to dry firing. I ended up buying 8 triggers that I felt were the best available and trying them all live. I used a 13.7" noveske SB from 10-400 yards. I tested:
Wilson Combat 3G
Timney single stage 3lb flat bow
Geissele SD3G
JP single stage 3lb
Geissele S3G standard bow
AR Gold
Geissele HiSpeed NM Match Rifle
Geissele HiSpeed NM DMR

I had 6 targets set up from 10-125 (10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 125) yards and another 4 set up from 150-400 (150, 200, 300, 400) yards. Luckily, for me it was pretty easy to tell what I liked. For 150-200 yds and in I liked how the SD3G's reset almost pushed itself back and proved to be not only what I shot the fastest, but what I shot the most accurately. However, when I got to the further distances that was not the case. The AR gold and the Geissele HS Match rifle trigger were easily the best for me with respect to fast, precision shooting at distance. I kept one of each of those for a couple of my hunting rigs. I loaded my short range rifles with Geissele SD3Gs. I ended up selling everything i didn't want to keep in about 4 weeks and lost about $15 per trigger as a result. Was well worth it to me. For what it's worth - and because the OP mentioned the Wilson - I thought it was by far the worst out of all of them. Still a great unit, just not at the level of the others and certainly not worth the $250+ price tag...

 

[samnev]

Geissele SSA-E gets my vote.

 

[Red_SC]

I loaded my short range rifles with Geissele SD3Gs. I ended up selling everything i didn't want to keep in about 4 weeks and lost about $15 per trigger as a result. Was well worth it to me. For what it's worth - and because the OP mentioned the Wilson - I thought it was by far the worst out of all of them. Still a great unit, just not at the level of the others and certainly not worth the $250+ price tag...

Funny, I ran a Wilson for a couple 3 gun seasons and was very happy with it. If I were looking for a single stage it would be high on my list. I couldn't sell the Geissele S3G fast enough, although I like my SD-E. A JP single stage that's set up right is pretty hard to beat.

 

[majtii]

I think I feel more confused now than when I started the thread.

 

[FALex]

I have JP competition triggers in two of my AR's and they are damn hard to beat for a single stage. I recently got to squeeze a Hiperfire 24C, and it was also damn nice. The PWS I just bought has a Geiselle SDE in it, but it is a 2 stage. I love the reset on that SDE, it is ridiculous how audible/tactile it is, it's almost exaggerated.

The AR Gold opinions has me interested.

Any of you guys see this Tac Con 3MR? The promo videos make it look really sweet, but 500.00 sweet? I'm not so sure of that...

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Any of you guys see this Tac Con 3MR? The promo videos make it look really sweet, but 500.00 sweet? I'm not so sure of that...

This is one of the triggers I also got to play with in my post above. Not impressed with it at all honestly and I also expressed my disbelief at the $500 price tag. I was told that the owner of the company stated that they price their triggers at that price because the people who can fire the amount of rounds the trigger is capable of can afford a $500 trigger. My opinion is that it is grossly over priced and a mediocre performing gimmicky trigger at best.

 

[FALex]

This is one of the triggers I also got to play with in my post above. Not impressed with it at all honestly and I also expressed my disbelief at the $500 price tag. I was told that the owner of the company stated that they price their triggers at that price because the people who can fire the amount of rounds the trigger is capable of can afford a $500 trigger. My opinion is that it is grossly over priced and a mediocre performing gimmicky trigger at best.

Copy that...it'd be difficult to spend 500 on one trigger that is "iffy" when I could get 2 triggers that I know are great for 500.00.

 

[ipsick]

I think I feel more confused now than when I started the thread.

I'm more confused now on why you're confused. You asked for a 1911-type trigger for your AR and only the AR Gold offers that.

If you're just looking for the best AR trigger for you, then the last part of jasonfaz's 1st post in this thread is enlightening. Only you will know what AR trigger is best for you and that may not necessarily be the AR Gold.

The AR Gold seemed like fool's gold to me. Sold it immediately. I throw Geissele SD3Gs in mine. Technically it's 3lbs on the pull weight, but it feels like 2.5lbs. Not a trigger out there that's faster. That said, triggers are hard to recommend. I've had people shoot the SD3G and they hate it. It's almost like choosing a woman. We like all of them, each has a unique quality, but which one do we choose? Might as well try all of them...

...The AR gold and the Geissele HS Match rifle trigger were easily the best for me with respect to fast, precision shooting at distance. I kept one of each of those for a couple of my hunting rigs...

jasonfaz, did you sell the AR Gold or did you keep it? I was a little skeptical of the first statement in your 1st post, but I took it to mean how most feel about light triggers as fool's gold for good shooting. I can see how you liked the AR Gold in a following post for fast precision work at distance and how you might not like it to shorter distance fast shooting when compared to the SD3G (very positive reset). I just personally didn't like my S3G because it felt creepy and I don't like that much overtravel in my triggers.

****majtii, here's a thread you might like though just like with anything trigger I have a different subjective opinion on some of the triggers discussed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=863413

 

[Regalkismet]

For you guys with the Hiperfire triggers. Is the trigger feel similar to the Geissele s3g line of triggers where there isn't a crisp break, it sort of glides till it fires with no definite feel before it breaks? I've heard different descriptions of the feel of these triggers, from the above description, to the direct opposite with some saying it has a crisp break...

 

[Papa Zero Three]

For you guys with the Hiperfire triggers. Is the trigger feel similar to the Geissele s3g line of triggers where there isn't a crisp break, it sort of glides till it fires with no definite feel before it breaks? I've heard different descriptions of the feel of these triggers, from the above description, to the direct opposite with some saying it has a crisp break...

No, the break is very crisp IMO. There is very little/no slack/take up before the break. The difference between models is defined by the mfgr in the picture but having both the 24E and the 243G the difference is like splitting hairs same goes for the reset. I run the lightest springs in both of them.

 

[jasonfaz]

I sold the AR gold, I didn't like it in my .223 for the type of shooting I do with it. For whatever reason my AR gold seemed mushy and inconsistent compared to Geissele's two stage NM. I had a poor opinion of it until I shot an SR Gold a month or so later in a buddy's Creedmoor. I skipped over the detail related to those specifics considering the point is any of those triggers can be someones favorite. It all depends on what the application is and what type of trigger (single stage vs two stage or rolling break vs. carrot/glass break) is preferred. Technically, I sold the AR15 version but did buy an SR for my 308 as I thought it was a fantastic trigger for precision work. It's extremely crisp, right on the heels of the Geissele Hi Speed NM. They're so close I'm not sure I could make a call on way or the other. My fault on the confusion there...

 

[Redmanss]

This is one of the triggers I also got to play with in my post above. Not impressed with it at all honestly and I also expressed my disbelief at the $500 price tag. I was told that the owner of the company stated that they price their triggers at that price because the people who can fire the amount of rounds the trigger is capable of can afford a $500 trigger. My opinion is that it is grossly over priced and a mediocre performing gimmicky trigger at best.

TTAG did a review of the trigger and came to the same conclusion, but published it. Tac-Con's response and the back and forth is hilarious: Note to TAC-CON: This Is Not The PR You're Looking For | The Truth About Guns

Back OT, I have two of the SD3G triggers and they are very nice and in line with what the OP is seeking. My next though will be a Hiperfire to see what all the talk is about.

 

[ipsick]

I sold the AR gold, I didn't like it in my .223 for the type of shooting I do with it. For whatever reason my AR gold seemed mushy and inconsistent compared to Geissele's two stage NM. I had a poor opinion of it until I shot an SR Gold a month or so later in a buddy's Creedmoor. I skipped over the detail related to those specifics considering the point is any of those triggers can be someones favorite. It all depends on what the application is and what type of trigger (single stage vs two stage or rolling break vs. carrot/glass break) is preferred. Technically, I sold the AR15 version but did buy an SR for my 308 as I thought it was a fantastic trigger for precision work. It's extremely crisp, right on the heels of the Geissele Hi Speed NM. They're so close I'm not sure I could make a call on way or the other. My fault on the confusion there...

Ironically, I didn't find the SR Gold to be nearly as good or as consistent as my AR Gold out of the box. My SR Gold required significant adjustment and even needed me to modify my selector to remove any residual creep. The SR Gold is really nice now but it required some work to get there. Interestingly, I was able to try out an SR Gold in a Larue PredatOBR. That had the same issues as my SR Gold and I note that it was interesting because I was surprised that Larue would ship a rifle with those issues. For the coin they cost, I would think Larue would have demanded that ATC send them units that are perfect out of the box.

 

[majtii]

I'm more confused now on why you're confused.

Sorry, think You missed the irony. You say AR Gold and I'll check them out but then jasonfaz found his mushy which I don't want in a trigger.
Don't get me wrong, this is one of the best trigger threads I've read.

 

[ipsick]

Sorry, think You missed the irony. You say AR Gold and I'll check them out but then jasonfaz found his mushy which I don't want in a trigger.
Don't get me wrong, this is one of the best trigger threads I've read.

Well you can go the route jasonfaz and I have gone through and test them all or most of them all and find out for yourself.

Ironically, jasonfaz and I are at the polar opposites of subjective opinion which I guess does reinforce your confusion. Even in a nearly identical design we had nearly opposite experiences. He hated the AR Gold but liked the SR Gold and I loved my AR Gold out of the box but needed to do some work with my SR Gold.

You want a crisp not mushy trigger, then Wilson would be my recommendation as the crispest (again jasonfaz had the opposite opinion at least as far as preference for it).
But again if you really still want that 1911 trigger in an AR, the AR Gold is your only choice. Nothing else comes close in pull characteristics to a 1911 in an AR format. I've got a finely tuned 1911 trigger from Springfield Custom using EGW hammer/sear/disconnector and some days I prefer my AR Gold over that trigger.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I've been searching but haven't found the answer or my Google fu isn't working.

Want a new trigger for my AR-15. 2-stage triggers seems nice when reading about them but the few I've tried didn't fit me.
Think I want a trigger that feels like a 1911 with a good trigger job. That would be a light pre-travel with around 2 lbs breaking glass, no overtravel and short reset.

Feels like there is thousands of triggers out there. Which one am I looking for?

What you are looking for is smooth trigger control; and, since a stock trigger will permit smooth the other priority for most would be a fast lock time. With that being a very useful benefit to those of us that cannot muster follow through, the GA trigger comes to mind.

 

[Regalkismet]

Here is a very good review of just about every quality trigger made:

AR-15 Trigger Buyer's Guide - 1 - RECOIL

 

[jasonfaz]

Ipsick, that makes me just shake my head and smile. The adjustability is exactly what I liked about it albeit the minor trim work that needs to be done. I also hate the gold look. I felt like I needed to sell my truck and get a low rider eclipse with neon lights underneath. I blasted that puppy and Cerakoted it grey.

OP, one thing that I hope is clear at this point.....is that nothing ever is or will be as clear as you would want it to be.

Seriously though, you'll be gtg with any of them. They're all fantastic in their own unique way. Practice, practice...trigger control, trigger control.

Outside of the obvious things like pull weights, take up, reset, 1 vs 2 stage, etc. each have little nuances you wouldn't think of. For example, I've mentioned my preference regarding the GA SD3G. I've also always liked using KNS pins with my rigs just as an extra precaution. I've found the KNS pins to be noticeably detrimental to the overall feel of that particular trigger's 'hybrid' feel and unique reset. I was surprised to hear from GA that they don't recommend the use of KNS pins with their trigger units - especially the 3G line. Who would have guessed? The Timney triggers traditionally have bows with comparatively sharp edges, some people don't use them solely for that reason. Some bows are long and thin, some wide, some with beveled edges. Installation difficulty varies with each unit. The placement of the trigger bow relative to your trigger finger and the angle of your grip can effect which one feels best. There are just so many factors that come into play that are entirely subjective that I'm convinced the only real way to know what's best for you is just shooting them. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I think it's the truth...

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Since it was mentioned and it is something worth commenting on, the install of the Hiperfire line of triggers is extremely easy to do and doesn't require any disassembly other than removing the original trigger from the lower. Their website has several well done videos showing an install in roughly 3 mins. Changing the trigger weight springs out is even faster and there are no set screws to back out, adjust or that can loosen over time. The instructions that come in the baggy are just as detailed and easy to follow and after removing my original trigger, I would say that it took me maybe 3 mins to install, if that. Changing the trigger weight springs out is easy enough that you could do it on the firing line in a matter of a few mins if you were inclined to try out the different weight springs one after another. The other thing worth mentioning is that the hammer fall on the Hiperfires is no joke, you will not have any issues with light strikes due to a light trigger weight. When you place the weapon on safe, the trigger locks up rock solid, there is zero play/wiggle in it.

 

[Cobracutter]

Interested in the Wilson now:

How does it stack up against the G Hi Speed DMR & the KAC 2 Stage (newer) ?

 

[jasonfaz]

I haven't tried any of the Wilson two stage triggers. Only the 3G version. I bought a KAC SR-15 lower and threw the 3.5 lb spring in it but ended up switching it out for a G HS Match rifle trigger. Never looked back...

 

[Regalkismet]

I have two Wilson Combat 2 stage match triggers.... I've never tried their other 2 stage but their match 2 stage has a very light and short first stage... I'd say under a pound or there abouts and the second stage is very crisp... And probably around 2 pounds.... Just a guess from feel as I never put a trigger quage on them but they are awesome.... I can't decide whether I like the 2 stage match or their single stage trigger better.... For now I have my 2 single stage TTU's in my hunting rifles and 2 two stage match TTU'S in precision rifles....I had their s3g model as well but since I have 2 other Geissele s3g triggers I sold it.... It was nice.... Just as good as the Geissele s3g's...very very similar... I've slowly phased out my s3g's....the two I have left are in custom 22LR AR's which are fun and cheap to shoot crazy fast....