Another GAP vs OBR question

[taseal]

So it seems like I have the funds now to get me one of these, so I've been doing some research.

I know both are great, and I honestly won't go wrong either way. To me, it almost looks like which I like more aesthetically.

Now my question is, why is the GAP-10 pretty much only praised here, and not many other places?

My research shows that the OBR is favored pretty much on every other forum. Sometimes it's favored because of non expert opinions (it shoots 10K rounds and GAP shoots 5K rounds) and 'it's more reliable because it has longer barrel life, or it's piston operated'

stuff like that.

Only here is GAP-10 more preferred. I also know Mark is an active member here and he supports us. Is this one of the reasons? Because people buy GAPs here, they tend to stick with GAP? I understand GAP supports this shooting community, but I don't want to buy a rifle because he is supportive. I want to buy it because it can perform (I know it does)

It's hard to spend that hard earned 3,000 for me, so I just want to make the best decision for me.

FWIW, i'm also looking at PWS MK214 or MK216

 

[JSF]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I have no idea why GAP is only praised here. I would bet if people on the other forums had them they would be praising them. I chose GAP because I can call them and order another upper in any caliber that will function in an AR308. I wanted a 308 for fun and a 6.5cm for competition. You can't get that with the OBR.

 

[DeSnifter]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

GAP is praised here based on the quality of the rifle and the quality of the people making them. Larue makes a quality rifle, but Mark Larue himself has shown less than quality behavior. That makes some sensitive people butt hurt.

Most other forums aren't dedicated to precision rifles, which is exactly what GAP is all about. This is probably why you won't see much about GAP as a company on forums like arfcom. A precision rifle, especially custom ones are somewhat of a niche product. The typical shooter cant see spending $3000 - $4000 on a rifle that shoots a half inch better than theirs at 100 yards. You will find plenty about GAP on precision rifle forums.

Both rifles work, both will do what you need. If you are going with a caliber other than 308 GAP 10 is the obvious choice.

 

[taseal]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Thanks guys

I have only heard about mark larue making dumbass of himself somewhere else (never saw the posts)

I know GAP is known for accuracy, but even George has said OBR is a fine rifle and the GAP is known for the accuracy for it's chamber.

so we both know the GAP10 and the OBR are just as accuarte each other. So I don't understand why people praise the GAP10 when they shoot as well as each other.

At this point, I think whoever can deliver faster will win. Which means GAP might be the winner for me. It's really coming down to splitting hairs. (which looks better, which will have the rifle ready faster, etc)

 

[Chucky]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I have both a OBR and a GAP AR-10 in my safe. Here are the reasons I went with the OBR. I didn't have to wait for it. It came standard with a 2 position gas block and GAP didn't offer one at the time. I like the fact also that Larue uses a hard chromed bolt and carrier. It allows cleanup to go a lot easier as well as the fact with a few drops of oil after a couple hundred rounds and the carbon just comes loose while shooting.

They both shoot and just using HSM match 168 which I usually have a lot of laying around they both shoot sub 3/4 MOA. I prefer the OBR over the GA but they are both great guns and now that the Larue is doing the Predatobr which is what I wanted all along from them it is an easy decision for me.

I have around 4K through my OBR and the only issues I have seen was if I forgot to switch the gas block back to unsuppressed and I had a pmag that for the first couple times I loaded it the second round would not feed with M118LR. That has since resolved itself and neither issues I blame on the gun.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys

I have only heard about mark larue making dumbass of himself somewhere else (never saw the posts)

I know GAP is known for accuracy, but even George has said OBR is a fine rifle and the GAP is known for the accuracy for it's chamber.

so we both know the GAP10 and the OBR are just as accuarte each other. So I don't understand why people praise the GAP10 when they shoot as well as each other.

At this point, I think whoever can deliver faster will win. Which means GAP might be the winner for me. It's really coming down to splitting hairs. (which looks better, which will have the rifle ready faster, etc)</div></div> you ask the why - from my perspective: GA Precision has a high reputation on the hide for building highly accurate rifles which deliver on the multitude of levels. And, the owner of GA Precision is on this forum helping shooters with their issues and always willing to provide a helping hand. Is it to promote his business, sure it is, who wouldn't go to a forum where guys ask for the best and are willing to shuck out the money. There have been some disparaging remarks about Mark LaRue on this forum which I won't get into because I don't know all the issues but suffice to say if I had the money and it came down to the two I go with the guy who is accessible if I ever have a questions about his products. I have a friend who shoots a GAP-10 and I have shot it and I was extremely impressed with its accuracy. What is said about it on this forum is true - I have a previous DPMS based GA Precision semi-auto rifle and I have to say it shoots well; but, whatever they did to this new GAP-10 version it is just more accurate. I was impressed is about all I can say.

 

[shane45]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Why? SImple. When Larue was asked to build a PredatOBR before there was one the answer was not only no but never!

When they were asked to XXX NO!
When they were asked to XXX NO!
When they were asked to XXX NO!

If you want to dismiss any requests as probably difficult, here is one of them as an example. Please send with no stock. "We checked with legal and that would be considered shipping a handgun"

Um yeah OK!

My buddy whome I helped with all of this likes his rifle but will NEVER buy a Larue again do to the significantly and repeatedly negative experience. In contrast I cant remember ever hearing no from GAP. I bet if he had it to do again he would take my advice this time around and went with a GAP.

 

[taseal]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why? SImple. When Larue was asked to build a PredatOBR before there was one the answer was not only no but never!

When they were asked to XXX NO!
When they were asked to XXX NO!
When they were asked to XXX NO!

If you want to dismiss any requests as probably difficult, here is one of them as an example. Please send with no stock. "We checked with legal and that would be considered shipping a handgun"

Um yeah OK!

My buddy whome I helped with all of this likes his rifle but will NEVER buy a Larue again do to the significantly and repeatedly negative experience. In contrast I cant remember ever hearing no from GAP. I bet if he had it to do again he would take my advice this time around and went with a GAP. </div></div>

I'm having a tough time understanding your post. You mean when peopled asked them to make a PredOBR, they said they'll never make one?

When they were asked to xxx no? I Don't understand what you're saying.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys

I have only heard about mark larue making dumbass of himself somewhere else (never saw the posts)

I know GAP is known for accuracy, but even George has said OBR is a fine rifle and the GAP is known for the accuracy for it's chamber.

so we both know the GAP10 and the OBR are just as accuarte each other. So I don't understand why people praise the GAP10 when they shoot as well as each other.

At this point, I think whoever can deliver faster will win. Which means GAP might be the winner for me. It's really coming down to splitting hairs. (which looks better, which will have the rifle ready faster, etc)</div></div> you ask the why - from my perspective: GA Precision has a high reputation on the hide for building highly accurate rifles which deliver on the multitude of levels. And, the owner of GA Precision is on this forum helping shooters with their issues and always willing to provide a helping hand. Is it to promote his business, sure it is, who wouldn't go to a forum where guys ask for the best and are willing to shuck out the money. There have been some disparaging remarks about Mark LaRue on this forum which I won't get into because I don't know all the issues but suffice to say if I had the money and it came down to the two I go with the guy who is accessible if I ever have a questions about his products. I have a friend who shoots a GAP-10 and I have shot it and I was extremely impressed with its accuracy. What is said about it on this forum is true - I have a previous DPMS based GA Precision semi-auto rifle and I have to say it shoots well; but, whatever they did to this new GAP-10 version it is just more accurate. I was impressed is about all I can say. </div></div>

I need to see these remarks about this guy. I'm curious what happened...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chucky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both a OBR and a GAP AR-10 in my safe. Here are the reasons I went with the OBR. I didn't have to wait for it. It came standard with a 2 position gas block and GAP didn't offer one at the time. I like the fact also that Larue uses a hard chromed bolt and carrier. It allows cleanup to go a lot easier as well as the fact with a few drops of oil after a couple hundred rounds and the carbon just comes loose while shooting.

They both shoot and just using HSM match 168 which I usually have a lot of laying around they both shoot sub 3/4 MOA. I prefer the OBR over the GA but they are both great guns and now that the Larue is doing the Predatobr which is what I wanted all along from them it is an easy decision for me.

I have around 4K through my OBR and the only issues I have seen was if I forgot to switch the gas block back to unsuppressed and I had a pmag that for the first couple times I loaded it the second round would not feed with M118LR. That has since resolved itself and neither issues I blame on the gun. </div></div>

You know, time is one of the major decidiing factors for me. and you got lucky I guess. Right now OBR isn't just available. there is a several month wait now.

 

[shane45]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Im sorry if I wsnt clear. What I was trying to say was that any requests were met with uber resistance up to and including something as simple as leaving the stock off.

Yes when we asked them to basically build what is now called a PredatOBR, the answer was not only an indignant no, it was never. And so now that they are its a bit of a kick in the nuts to say the least.

 

[truth]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Here's a story for ya...a few weeks back I bought a used GAP-10 here on the hide. link to sale The owner was a former employee of GAP and he had personally built the rifle for himself. The transaction was a clumsy one from start to finish but got sorted eventually. Then I had a serious problem when I fired the gun, seems there may be a reason he is a former employee. Anyway, after a few rounds down the tube a cartridge would fire but the bullet would not leave the barrel. This happened twice and was with top quality ammo, new FGMM in both .308 and 7.62. Not to be an attention whore I sent George at GAP an email. Once I properly described what was happening he knew straight away that the barrel hadn't been properly reamed to the GAP-10 spec for one reason or another. I sent the rifle back to GAP and a week later got a call from George himself. They had repaired it in under a week at no charge to me, they were even shipping it back on their dime. Well, GAP just got a customer for life. They owed me nothing as I had never bought anything from them and yet treated me as if I had been a customer for decades. Not sure how you put a value on that but to me it's priceless and deserves the loyalty that you read here.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a story for ya...a few weeks back I bought a used GAP-10 here on the hide. link to sale The owner was a former employee of GAP and he had personally built the rifle for himself. The transaction was a clumsy one from start to finish but got sorted eventually. Then I had a serious problem when I fired the gun, seems there may be a reason he is a former employee. Anyway, after a few rounds down the tube a cartridge would fire but the bullet would not leave the barrel. This happened twice and was with top quality ammo, new FGMM in both .308 and 7.62. Not to be an attention whore I sent George at GAP an email. Once I properly described what was happening he knew straight away that the barrel hadn't been properly reamed to the GAP-10 spec for one reason or another. I sent the rifle back to GAP and a week later got a call from George himself. They had repaired it in under a week at no charge to me, they were even shipping it back on their dime. Well, GAP just got a customer for life. They owed me nothing as I had never bought anything from them and yet treated me as if I had been a customer for decades. Not sure how you put a value on that but to me it's priceless and deserves the loyalty that you read here. </div></div>

This is a great story and just shows the quality of people at GAP. I remember when you bought that rifle and remembering reading about your problems with the guy that sold it to you. GAP all the way.

 

[BCP]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

While I do like the Larues I don't like that I can't really customize it and I hate that ordering one with a bullet button is such a hassle. Plenty of people I've known have ordered them, had a dealer all lined up and then Larue cancelled the order because the dealer wasn't on their list (afaik there are only 3-4 Larue approved dealers in Cali). So they were on a list for 3 months and then were told that they had to go to the back of the line AND buy their rifle through a dealer in another town 200miles away who charges 3x what other dealers do.

Before they shipped to Cali people in Cali would order them from out of state dealers and then the out of state dealer would Californize it and ship to a Cali dealer. When Larue found out about this he threw a shit fit, went all over the internet pissing and moaning about how 'Californicators' were getting their hands on his rifles. It was fucking pathetic to be honest.

Now, to be fair Larue made things right. AFAIK he has donated about 30k+ dollars to the Calguns Foundation (the people who made it possible to buy black rifles in Cali) which to me is great.

GAP rifles are monolithic just like Larue, they use better barrels and you can customize them more. They are also cheaper out of the gate vs. a Larue.

So while I'm sure a Larue is a great rifle...one of the best...it's not THE best and I'd rather give my money to someone that is nice to me vs. someone who goes around the internet acting like a fuckwit.

 

[BCP]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now OBR isn't just available.</div></div>

I may know of a place here in Cali that has a predaobr on the wall...you're going to pay through the nose for it though.

 

[taseal]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a story for ya...a few weeks back I bought a used GAP-10 here on the hide. link to sale The owner was a former employee of GAP and he had personally built the rifle for himself. The transaction was a clumsy one from start to finish but got sorted eventually. Then I had a serious problem when I fired the gun, seems there may be a reason he is a former employee. Anyway, after a few rounds down the tube a cartridge would fire but the bullet would not leave the barrel. This happened twice and was with top quality ammo, new FGMM in both .308 and 7.62. Not to be an attention whore I sent George at GAP an email. Once I properly described what was happening he knew straight away that the barrel hadn't been properly reamed to the GAP-10 spec for one reason or another. I sent the rifle back to GAP and a week later got a call from George himself. They had repaired it in under a week at no charge to me, they were even shipping it back on their dime. Well, GAP just got a customer for life. They owed me nothing as I had never bought anything from them and yet treated me as if I had been a customer for decades. Not sure how you put a value on that but to me it's priceless and deserves the loyalty that you read here. </div></div>

That's awesome. but expected, no?

I'm curious what larue would have done in this situation...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now OBR isn't just available.</div></div>

I may know of a place here in Cali that has a predaobr on the wall...you're going to pay through the nose for it though. </div></div>

we have a place like that here. You pay if you want to play. no thanks...

with 2 same barrel lengths, what is the weight difference? I believe the GAP is heavier inch for inch.

 

[Decoy]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Had a GAP AR-10 and was not happy with the accuracy or reliability, let's leave it at that. I have a GAP Gladius and it shoots great.

Shot a OBR 7.62 out to 1000 yards and came home and sold the GAP AR-10.

Ordered the 18" OBR and will be receiving it next week.

Took a bath on the GAP but it did not preform for me after phone calls to gap and a range of ammo test. Kinda of turned me off on GAP to the point that i am going to sell my Gladius.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

The GAP AR-10 and the GAP-10 are two different rifles entirely.

 

[ShrockWorks]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I'm debating the same two right now. I have never dealt with GAP, although I do have a pre-sales email out to them right now, but I've bought lots of small parts from Larue.

Overall my experience with Larue has been great except for the one time I had a problem to call and ask about. I bought a stripped lower and was putting a Geissele adjustable trigger in it. I had narrowed the problem down to either a bad trigger or bad pin hole spacing in the lower.

I called Larue just to get any feedback or suggestion or whatever they might have to say since they use GA triggers. All they would suggest was that I take it to a gunsmith so I could "get it installed right."

I then called Geissele. They said send it in and they would turn it around in a day. If it was a problem with the trigger, no charge. If it was installer error or a lower problem, $25.00. It turned out to be a rare problem with the trigger but the gun was on it's way back to me in a day.

It just really kinda turned me off that I got zero feedback or help other than to suggest that I had no idea what I was doing so "take it to a gunsmith" from Larue....

I still like Larue and their products, but it does make me a bit concerned with the thought of a major purchase like an OBR.

 

[gathumper]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Decoy, I want to make sure that I'm hearing you correctly. Are you saying that you had a accuracy problem with your GAP-10, called them, and the problem was never corrected? I own 2 GAP-10's, and did have a problem with my first one, "accuracy wise". I called GAP the same day I shot it, and not only did I receive a phone call within the hour, but had my rifle picked up, new barrel installed, and shipped back to me in 8 days for free! I cannot believe that George and the gang would not make it right for you, that would be a first.

You just can't go wrong with either rifle, they are both world class, and have great support. I'm with you, I would buy which ever one popped up if your not particular.

 

[poison123]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Decoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had a GAP AR-10 and was not happy with the accuracy or reliability, let's leave it at that. I have a GAP Gladius and it shoots great.

Shot a OBR 7.62 out to 1000 yards and came home and sold the GAP AR-10.

Ordered the 18" OBR and will be receiving it next week.

Took a bath on the GAP but it did not preform for me after phone calls to gap and a range of ammo test. Kinda of turned me off on GAP to the point that i am going to sell my Gladius. </div></div>

Took a bath on a gap10 sale? I call bullshit.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I shot a gap10 in 6.5 cm at last years PMG that I burrowed from George and it shot awesome, ran awesome. George and crew have been awesome to deal with through 4 rifle builds. Cannot say enough good things about them.

 

[Blasst]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a story for ya...a few weeks back I bought a used GAP-10 here on the hide. link to sale The owner was a former employee of GAP and he had personally built the rifle for himself. The transaction was a clumsy one from start to finish but got sorted eventually. Then I had a serious problem when I fired the gun, seems there may be a reason he is a former employee. Anyway, after a few rounds down the tube a cartridge would fire but the bullet would not leave the barrel. This happened twice and was with top quality ammo, new FGMM in both .308 and 7.62. Not to be an attention whore I sent George at GAP an email. Once I properly described what was happening he knew straight away that the barrel hadn't been properly reamed to the GAP-10 spec for one reason or another. I sent the rifle back to GAP and a week later got a call from George himself. They had repaired it in under a week at no charge to me, they were even shipping it back on their dime. Well, GAP just got a customer for life. They owed me nothing as I had never bought anything from them and yet treated me as if I had been a customer for decades. Not sure how you put a value on that but to me it's priceless and deserves the loyalty that you read here.</div></div>

Wow....good story!

 

[Ianski]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I have heard nothing but good things about the guys over there at GA and know a couple of guys that know the guys there personally and will only buy GA from now on.

I'm actually going through the same decision phase as the OP, and I've put hands on a PredatAR and an OBR and liked them both, but as a gunsmith, i know how important customer support is, and that has led me to my choosing the GAP10.

 

[Decoy]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I purchased it for 2250 and ending up selling it for 1500. Had about 300 rounds done the tube, that is a bath for me. Bullshit yourself not me dude.

 

[poison123]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Decoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I purchased it for 2250 and ending up selling it for 1500. Had about 300 rounds done the tube, that is a bath for me. Bullshit yourself not me dude.
</div></div>

Not mine or GAPs fault your a idiot for selling it so cheap.

 

[gathumper]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Again, are you saying that you called GAP and they did not take care of the problem?

 

[BCP]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Decoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I purchased it for 2250 and ending up selling it for 1500. Had about 300 rounds done the tube, that is a bath for me. Bullshit yourself not me dude.
</div></div>

Not mine or GAPs fault your a idiot for selling it so cheap. </div></div>

The guy said his piece. Leave him be.

Where are all these 1500$ GAP 10's when I have the cash is what I want to know...

 

[Napsters]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I just want a pm from him when he decides to clear out the galdius. I would probably buy it with that type of discount.

 

[gathumper]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

You can leave him be, I asked a legitimate question and would like an answer! I don't start crap, or jump on any bandwagons. But if your gonna knock a manufacturer that has bent over backwards to help pretty much everyone, then state your case, not just some half assed shit!

 

[Decoy]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

I was not bashing GAP, like I said was just turned off by the AR. My Gladius is a super nice gun and I purchased it since I needed a short tack driver. I would not have an issue purchasing another bolt gun from them or would I have bought the Gladius if I thought the AR was indicative of their work.

I could have shipped the AR back to GAP to have them rechamber it but moved it along to someone else instead, with full disclosure. He got it work out (I didn't have the time) and he is super happy with the gun and deal so we do have a happy camper.

I do apologize to gathumper for not giving the whole story but I was busy and out of range most of the last two weeks. Just tired when I got back to the room after several days on the range and didn't choose my words correctly, but I did not intent to bash GAP.

I have received my OBR and that will be my new back-up gun and heavy metal gun so the Gladius is going up for sale next week. Had three scout sniper instructors put some rounds down it (Gladius) last year and they said it was the most accurate rifle that they had ever shot.

I need a shorter rifle to pack so that is why my Surgeon AI folder is my #1 gun. Besides it is a badass rifle too.

As far as the other guy would is into hiding behind his keyboard calling me names, I hope he was was just having a late day too. Otherwise, grow a pair and come see me

 

[poison123]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

lol what ever you say dick bag.

 

[gathumper]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

No problem Decoy, I'm glad that everything work for you. I would not sell, or trade any of my GAP'S for the fucking world. They are now like my children, only better!

 

[KillShot]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lol what ever you say dick bag.</div></div>

Ha ha ha! That right there is sig material!

 

[bm11]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

GAP is great, they have treated me very well in the past! That said, the hide is not the most Larue friendly place, but in my personal experience their customer service is a cut above as well.

When I had an OBR, I bought it pre owned but unfired. It came with an A2 stock, but I bought the parts to convert it to a CTR from a hide vendor. The rifle didn't cycle reliably after and the bolt wouldn't stay open after the last round was fired. Long story short, I called Larue and they sent me a shipping label. A few days after receiving the rifle the called me up and explained that the issue was that the rifle had an AR-15 length carbine reciever extension installed (the vendor knew I was installing it on an OBR 308 but did not know that a longer extension was required,) and that they had replaced it, the spring, and the buffer all with the right parts, had test fired it, and we're shipping it back. A few days later I received the OBR back with the incorrect components bagged up and the correct components installed, all at zero charge.

Can't beat that for customer service. Fixed a mistake I created by installing the wrong parts by installing the right ones and not even charging me for the parts or the shipping? Can't beat it.

 

[Decoy]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

Mark is a good man and instills it in his folks at Larue.

My buddy took a small tumble up in the mountains trying to catch his gun after he hooked the sling in s crevis and the sling ripped apart. The gun bounced off his scope and broke the scope and twisted the Larue mount.

He called Larue and explained what he did and they were in disbelief Had him send it in (he included a picture of the scope), they send him a new one at no cost Either great customer service or they felt sorry for him.

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Another GAP vs OBR question

IN my mind GAp Had to fix that rifle. if that rifle would have blown up and someone was hurt, there would be hell to pay, especially if it could have been proven that the chamber was bad. That has Law Suite all over it. We all know GAP rocks, im not saying anything about that. George seems to really care about this sport, and we need more folks like him. I am pretty sure he has made a decent living building these rifles, and for good reason. I dont personally have the patients to wait for a GAP rifle to be built so i havent ever ordered one. I wouldn't mind owning one though. Lee