Another, "help me find a new scope" thread

[Rum&Powder]

I started shooting about a year and a half ago. I have found that I really like distance shooting a good bit.
I have a Howa 1500 in 6.5 Creedmoor in a MDT chassis.
I will probably never shoot anything other than paper or steel.
I don't expect that I will ever need to shoot in low light conditions as most ranges close as soon as the sun starts going down.
I feel like I need some decent magnification. My current scope is just a 4x16 and while I have made several 1000 yard shots, I felt like I was shooting at blobs at that point.
I want a FFP scope as my first scope was a FFP, my current scope is a SFP and I prefer the FFP.
I won't ever shoot less than 200 yards and will be shooting benchrest and PRS out to 1200 yards. I have found a range about 1.5 hours from me that does a mile shoot once a month that I want to try.
My first scope was a 6x24x50 covenant https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-covenant-tactical-ffp-rifle-scope
I liked the reticle (christmas tree), I like the amount of magnification (6x24), the clarity of the glass was really good. The down side was that it doesn't have a lot of adjustment in the elevation(maybe 30 MOA) and I sold it with my first rifle...
My current scope is a Nikko Stirling 4x16x50. It is illuminated and I like that although I have NEVER used it while shooting, I don't like the reticle(dots straight down), The eye relief seem short, and the magnification seems lacking.
I would prefer to keep the new one under $1000.
My current rings are for 30mm so it would be nice to stay with a 30mm scope tube so that I don't have to buy new rings.
The scope barely clears the chassis at 50mm so if I went 56 I think I would have to get new rings.

So for the TLDR version
preferably under $1000
at least 24x magnification
30mm tube preferred
50mm lens preferred
Illumniated would be nice but not deal breaker
HAS to have 70 MOA(or more) of elevation adjustment
shooting only ranges 200+ yards need to be able to adjust out for mile shot(current ballistics says 83 moa) as lang as I can get there with holdover and elevation, I am fine

Current scopes that are heavily in the running are:
Viper PST gen2 https://vortexoptics.com/viper-pst-gen-2-5-25x50-ffp.html @$999 gives me a little heart burn but willing to purchase. My only concern is that I looked through one in Cabelas the other day and above 20x it seemed like the eye relief got smaller and the image was darker,

Athlon Ares BTR https://athlonoptics.com/product/ares-btr-gen2-4-5-27x50-aplr4-ffp-ir-moa-hd/ have not have a chance to look through one yet....

I really like the Athlon ETR but at $1200ish plus new rings ($60-$100) just seems to put it out of reach

let me know if I left any information out.

 

[hafejd30]

Keep an eye on the px section here. Been seeing some decent priced athlon Gen 1 Cronus BTR in there for around that range. Some with rings. The Ares models would be cheaper as well.

 

[theLBC]

hmmm, my advice, without knowing how long it took you to save $1k (assuming you don't use credit on your hobbies)...i would suggest you save a little more and don't compromise too much (again). plan a trip for 2 to disneyland, cancel it, and you got another $400 to spend.

 

[hafejd30]

Since you want that extra adjustment in elevation it may be worth it to upgrade to 34mm tube over the 30mm. The vortex has 70 moa total. So figure 55 moa of vertical adjustment with a 20 moa base.

A 34mm tube on something like a Athlon Cronus would be about 110 moa total. Or 75 moa usable elevation with a 20 moa base. Or 85 moa with a 30 moa base.

If your going to spend $1,000 then I’d strongly look into what $1100-$1200 can yield you in the used optics. In the end I think you’d be happier

 

[FuhQ]

Arken SH4 Gen2 6-24x50 VPR or Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25x56 EBR-7C. The 34mm tubes and huge elevation travel is going to beat the PST Gen2, IMO. Also, the FOV with 34mm tubes is crazy. You see so much around your target, even at max magnification. It's really nice.

Either would be a good fit, and way under your $1000 budget with a nice set of Seekins Precision 34mm rings.

Rifle Scopes - Arken SH4 Gen2 6-24x50 VPR MIL

*** Alright... Let's try this one more time... Maybe they have gotten it out of their system, and this time folks can be mature about this and act civil, and not accuse people of "shilling", and start hating on what other people spend their own personal money on. *** *** I am not sponsored...

www.snipershide.com

 

[oso1]

If you like the Viper PST Gen 2, Midway has that exact scope right now for $699, Cabelas is way overpriced

 

[z71rat]

The Arken Optics SH4 Gen2 6-24x50mm would serve you well. At $449.00, it’s a no brainer. There is a coupon running right now for $100 off of that. “GoBrandon” will get it to you for $349.00!! Then you can get the Halo rings for $60!! All
That for under $500!!

DK

 

[FuhQ]

If you like the Viper PST Gen 2, Midway has that exact scope right now for $699, Cabelas is way overpriced

Make sure that's the EBR-7C reticle, and not the old reticle. Euro Optic was blowing them out for the same, but it was a certain (older model Viper Gen2) reticle, and not the EBR-7C reticle. Those are typically $999 still at most places.

I really like the EBR-7C in my Strike Eagle 5-25x56.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Make sure that's the EBR-7C reticle, and not the old reticle. Euro Optic was blowing them out for the same, but it was a certain (older model Viper Gen2) reticle, and not the EBR-7C reticle. Those are typically $999 still at most places.

I really like the EBR-7C in my Strike Eagle 5-25x56.

Both the -2C and the -7C are highly functional, and if it saves $300, a man on a budget could do worse than the PST G2 -2C.

On the other hand, I prefer the center dot of the -7C.

 

[Rum&Powder]

Thanks for all of the helpful replies.
I will check out the Arken.
I will go take a second look at the strike eagle.
I will definitely keep an eye on the used scopes for sale here.
The PST at midway is the 2C reticle....trying to decide if the dot is worth $300 more than the crosshairs.

Which brings me to a couple of questions.
1. Is is possible to get canted set of rings or do you have to use an offset mount to get canted?(1 piece vs 2)
2. Does a 34mm tube typically give you a wider field of view or what exactly is the gain of a larger tube?
3. Does a larger lense (44 vs 50 vs 56) usually give you more light/clearer sight picture? If not what does the larger lens give you?
4. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the strike eagle vs the PST gen 2? I know the strike eagle has larger tube, larger lens, and 40 more moa of elevation. The PST has illumination. Is the PST just a lot nicer scope or is the extra expense mostly just illumination?
5. If I have to buy new rings, how do I know what height to get to keep the end of the scope from hitting the frame? My rings came on the rifle from the manufacturer and the scope just clears the chassis by maybe 1/16th of an inch.
I don't think the rings are canted....will have to look at the rail tonight to see if it is. Worried that if I buy something online it will be the wrong height.

 

[jinxx4ever]

PST has probably the poorest glass of any scope i own, and i paid full tilt for it a few years back when it first hit the market. From the $350 Arken to my NF ATACR 7-35 and all the others i have in between which is a lot. One of these days i'll dump it on someone. The dot is nice, but a fine reticle with the cross shouldn't really bother you to much . I have it in both the Coronus BTR and my Tract. Still works fine

 

[hafejd30]

1- Generally you’d use a 1 piece picatinny rail. With the 20 moa (or whatever you choose) built into it. Then you can choose to run standard rings or a mount with additional cant built in.

Or you can run something like a 1 piece mount that has the built in cant. There’s cheaper options up to something like a spuhr mount if you have the $$. Burris makes some rings in the signature extreme line that have inserts so you adjust the cant as well

2- 34mm tube may yield a wider field of view. Check on the manufacture specs when you compare the scope

The main reason for going 34mm would be the extra travel. In my comparison above I noted the vortex you are looking at (30mm tube with 70 moa total elevation) vs the Athlon Cronus BTR with (34mm tube and 110 moa of total elevation)

3- The larger lenses gather more light. However the size of the tube and quality of the components will determine how much of a difference it makes. Generally speaking if two optics run the exact same components but one has a 50mm objective and 30mm tube and the other has a 56mm objective with a 34mm tube the 56mm in this case would let in more light

4- Someone with more experience between these two can answer this. I had a couple of the original Viper PST models and ended up using the vortex warranty. Personally I shy away from the vortex. There’s countless threads on these issues so I won’t go any further. You can search the issues on your own. The pst Gen 2 is supposed to be better. Many use the vortex razor line here but those are above your budget

5- Buy the scope. Mount whatever rail on the gun you intend to run with the scope. Make 2 even numbered stacks of washers (I use pennies) on top of the rail. Add a washer to each stack until the scope objective clears the barrel and front of the picatinny rail when you have the scope positioned where you intend to mount it. Add enough to compensate if you plan to run canted ring/mount.

Then measure the stacks of washers with a micrometer. If you look on ring companies specifications (midwayusa also lists this measurement) you want to find the height of the ring from the top of the picatinny rail to the bottom of the scope tube (the same distance your measuring with the washers stacked up).

You may get rail to center of ring measurements on the specifications in which case you’ll need to do the math to subtract 1/2 the tube diameter of the scope from this measurements. Clearing just the barrel vs a chassis Forend or nv bridge etc will require different heights depending on your setup and rail height.

Always add a bit to your measurement to ensure your scope clears (example: if your washer stack measures .475” and the available rings come in picatinny rail to bottom of tube heights of .470” and .510” you’d want the .510” height to ensure your scope clears).

Side note- if you intend to run flip up scope caps be sure to measure for the rings with those on the scope to ensure they clear as well

I know it’s a lot to read but hope this helps

 

[oso1]

I have a PST gen2 with the 2-C reticle, I have no problem seeing the steel plate at 1 mile or hitting the steel plate at 1 mile, ok a little more trouble hitting the plate, but I have hit the steel plate at 1mile at least 100 times with this scope. Illumination not big deal to me, I never use it, I actually prefer the reticle without a dot, just my preference. With a 20 MOA rail I have 75 MOA of elevation, 3 full rotations, I know the specs state 70 MOA max but I do get 75 MOA. I have no issues with clarity or tracking, it still works fine 2168 rds. later, did I get a good one ? maybe or maybe Vortex is not as bad as some think it is, I have a sample size of one, this is the only Vortex optic I own.

All that said it is what it is, a decent scope at it's price point, it can't compete with scopes costing twice as much, many believe their lower price optics as as good as scopes costing much more, simply not the case, you get what you pay for. I will upgrade to better optic once I go custom on a rifle, which I need to do, my barrel will be burned out soon.

 

[Rum&Powder]

Thanks for all of the replies. After going and looking through several scopes, doing lots of research, watching a ton of comparison videos, and checking lots of reviews of each scope I ended up going with the Arken. I have spent a day at the range and I am happy with my purchase.

I do have a mounting question. How does everyone level their scope?
I put a level on the shroud that goes around the barrel and on the rail. Unfortunately those two didn't line up so I took the rail as being the point that I wanted to use as my point of reference to level the gun.
I then used a level on the top turret to level the scope on the level gun.
After it was tightened down I check all leveling points to make sure everything was still level and added my scope level and tightened it down.

While looking through the reticle I would swear it is slightly out of level. Not by much but just slightly off. I know my target was not sitting on level ground so maybe that was just throwing me off, but I would like a way to double-check.
Soooo, how to the rest of you level your rifle and then make sure the scope is level?
I have seen where some will look through the reticle at a level sitting on a level surface at distance.....but they never talk about how they get the rifle exactly level.....am I making this more complicated than it supposed to be?

 

[Task Unit Bruiser]

Thanks for all of the replies. After going and looking through several scopes, doing lots of research, watching a ton of comparison videos, and checking lots of reviews of each scope I ended up going with the Arken. I have spent a day at the range and I am happy with my purchase.

I do have a mounting question. How does everyone level their scope?
I put a level on the shroud that goes around the barrel and on the rail. Unfortunately those two didn't line up so I took the rail as being the point that I wanted to use as my point of reference to level the gun.
I then used a level on the top turret to level the scope on the level gun.
After it was tightened down I check all leveling points to make sure everything was still level and added my scope level and tightened it down.

While looking through the reticle I would swear it is slightly out of level. Not by much but just slightly off. I know my target was not sitting on level ground so maybe that was just throwing me off, but I would like a way to double-check.
Soooo, how to the rest of you level your rifle and then make sure the scope is level?
I have seen where some will look through the reticle at a level sitting on a level surface at distance.....but they never talk about how they get the rifle exactly level.....am I making this more complicated than it supposed to be?

For leveling, get this. It takes a few seconds and has never let me down. No need to rely on bubble levels or plumb bobs. The bubble levels can be misleading based on a number of factors. This kit will keep the scope level to your base/rail even if the rifle isn't perfectly level.

Optic Leveler Combo

The Optic Leveler is an inexpensive, easy-to-use tool for leveling scopes mounted in rings or one-piece mounts.

arisakadefense.com

 

[KnowNothing256]

If I’m at home, I hang a plumb line, shine a flashlight into the objective, and adjust the diopter focus until the crosshair shows up crisp on the wall, then align to the plumb line. Honestly it’s a bit of a production, I’ll only do that now if I can’t get to the range with enough time to level if there.

If I’m at the range, I toss a half-full water jug out around 50 yards and level to that.

How to get the rifle level depends on your stock. I just find a flat spot somewhere on the setup and place the little level there. You say you’re running a chassis, there should be a flat spot somewhere on the top of the centerline of the gun to rest the level. Under the cheek riser (might need to remove it) has been a good spot for me on my MPA chassis and Bergara HMR stock.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

How much are rings in the grand scheme of things?

I would consider ditching the 30mm for a 34mm for better options.

I picked up a Vortex Venom 5-25 for $400 at optics planet which is basically their Strike Eagle without illumination and locking turrets.