Gunsmithing Another savage bolt thread..

M

marvthehamster

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Feb 24, 2013
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#1
I’ve searched for my answer, but can’t find it so here goes..

I’ve got a savage 10 chambered in 308. Shoots great, I like the rifle. I can’t afford another precision type gun so this ones it for me. I have time to tinker and like to mod things (to a certain extent). I recently started trying to smooth out the bolt operation and have come to a couple observations. Wondering others have found.

1. Bolt body isn’t very tight in the action which leads to binding, especially when the bolt nears full rearward position. No surprises there, we’ve all heard this. Would polishing/chamfering edges where there is contact between the bolt and and receiver help this? How effective are the oversized bolt bodies at eliminating this? Best method of just greasing/lubing the bolt to make it better? I’ve just used good ol clp and had decent results.

2. Bolt lift is a little stiff. Meh. Not a huge deal for me. It’s got a tactical knob and it’s not my biggest concern. I have a bolt that has the cocking indicator inside the rear Allen screw so the traditional bolt lift kit is a no go. Any other options for this style bolt other than trimming spring and/or taking material off the cocking ramp?

3. This one is my main concern. Biggest issue for me is the effort required to get the bolt moving rearward after lifting the bolt handle after unlocking the lugs. It’s almost as if the lugs don’t quite fully disengage from the receiver and it takes a decent force to get things moving to eject the shot round. Once it’s fully unlocked and moving it’s fairly smooth but it’s a bugger to get it going. Can I/should I chamfer lug edges to help unlock? Is something else binding that I’m not considering?

I know, I know...buy a Remington. Help a brother out though. I’ve got probably about 1000 live rounds through the gun and double that in dry fire cycles. I have a barrel wrench, vise, and headspace gauges so I can disassemble/reassemble the rifle if need be. Not looking to send it off to a smith. It’s savage, any idiot can do it, right?!:)
 
#2
My savages are older, 2 pre accutrigger, 1 accutrigger but still older. I am not familiar with the cocking indicator, is the design similar enough to the older stuff to replace the bolt assembly screw (rear allen screw) and go with a bolt lift kit?

How does the surface between the front baffel and bolt head look? Any galling?
Other potential ideas would be to inspect for burrs/ maybe polish any all surfaces on the cocking piece or other contact areas.
I'm really hesitant to suggest light grease on the bolt head, as it holds grit and powder residue, but I do use it as reccomended on a M1A.
I have used light grease on a bolt with buttress type locking lugs to good effect.
 
#3
Savage,,,,BTDT!

A very thorough cleaning then application of Hornandy spray lube Really helps sticky savage actions.
Then grease for the lugs, striker ramp and primary extraction ramp.

A longer tacticool bolt knob helps bolt lift as does tactically placed grease.

After about 5000+ rounds my old model 11 kinda started smoothing out.
 
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#7
Spblademaker said:
Good point. Also have the rifle with you. ?
Click to expand...
9B8CC7A8-165D-4C57-8162-A2CCFC8268FC.gif
 
#8
1. Get a red DMT diamond hone that is 4.33" x .875" x .1875" . Remove the trigger sear. Hone the bolt raceway to remove proud metal. The bottom is easier than the top. Make sure you clean up the rear sections of the raceway. If needed, hone the sides of the bolt head to knock of the high spots.

2. If you have a belt sander find something a little larger than half the diameter of the spring bore and long enough to keep your fingers safe. Sand down the OD of the spring. Start by taking .010 off . Keep it even by checking with your calipers. Dip it in water if you need to keep it cool.(never had a problem with heat though) Test. remove material and test. Don't over do it. This is contingent on your rifle having the old style big long heavy spring.

3. This sounds Primary extraction timing where the ramps are engaging too soon. Normally there is not enough primary extraction on many Savage rifles. In that case it manifests itself when you have a case that sticks in the chamber. If the ramps meet to soon the bolt is being forced rearward prior to the lugs clearing the abutments. There is an optimal gap between the rear baffle and the rear of the action you could investigate. That new bolt handle could be a bad fit and the P.E. ramps on the new handle closed the gap. Ultimately the fix is Getting the right bolt handle, truing where you remove material from the rear of the bolt head lugs, remove some material from the abutments in the action or you could remove some from the front of the rear baffle. It doesn't take much to get it to be in time. Hopefully it is the new bolt handle. I've seen some PTG bolt bodies cause this as well.

You didn't mention difficulty closing the bolt so at least your trigger timing is good.
 
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#9
Halfnutz said:
My savages are older, 2 pre accutrigger, 1 accutrigger but still older. I am not familiar with the cocking indicator, is the design similar enough to the older stuff to replace the bolt assembly screw (rear allen screw) and go with a bolt lift kit?

How does the surface between the front baffel and bolt head look? Any galling?
Other potential ideas would be to inspect for burrs/ maybe polish any all surfaces on the cocking piece or other contact areas.
I'm really hesitant to suggest light grease on the bolt head, as it holds grit and powder residue, but I do use it as reccomended on a M1A.
I have used light grease on a bolt with buttress type locking lugs to good effect.
Click to expand...

Not sure about bolt compatibility with older parts.

What is the front baffel? Do you mean the raised metal portions in the receiver that the lugs on the bolt head lock into?
 
#10
stangfish said:
1. Get a red DMT diamond hone that is 4.33" x .875" x .1875" . Remove the trigger sear. Hone the bolt raceway to remove proud metal. The bottom is easier than the top. Make sure you clean up the rear sections of the raceway. If needed, hone the sides of the bolt head to knock of the high spots.

2. If you have a belt sander find something a little larger than half the diameter of the spring bore and long enough to keep your fingers safe. Sand down the OD of the spring. Start by taking .010 off . Keep it even by checking with your calipers. Dip it in water if you need to keep it cool.(never had a problem with heat though) Test. remove material and test. Don't over do it. This is contingent on your rifle having the old style big long heavy spring.

3. This sounds Primary extraction timing where the ramps are engaging too soon. Normally there is not enough primary extraction on many Savage rifles. In that case it manifests itself when you have a case that sticks in the chamber. If the ramps meet to soon the bolt is being forced rearward prior to the lugs clearing the abutments. There is an optimal gap between the rear baffle and the rear of the action you could investigate. That new bolt handle could be a bad fit and the P.E. ramps on the new handle closed the gap. Ultimately the fix is Getting the right bolt handle, truing where you remove material from the rear of the bolt head lugs, remove some material from the abutments in the action or you could remove some from the front of the rear baffle. It doesn't take much to get it to be in time. Hopefully it is the new bolt handle. I've seen some PTG bolt bodies cause this as well.

You didn't mention difficulty closing the bolt so at least your trigger timing is good.
Click to expand...

The extraction timing issue sounds like what I’m experiencing. But I’m not sure I understand all that you’re describing. Is there a video or graphic representation of what you’re talking about anywhere on the internets you could link to? I’m still unsure what a baffle is.
 
#11
Primary extraction is a big issue on factory Remington and savage rifles most of the time there is not enough which sucks with a Remington because you have to sweat the bolt handle on and off,, which is a great time to put a PTG threaded handle on I’ve never had a primary extraction issue on a savage but here’s a great write up.

Savage Shooters - Primary Extraction: What is it?

It seems a number of people out there don't seem to know what primary extraction is or what it does. Hopefully this quick FAQ and the accompanying video's will resolve that. Primary extraction is the initial phase of extracting a fired cartridge from the chamber of the rifle by mechanical...
www.savageshooters.com
 
#12
There is a feller on here that sells a bolt lift kit. Helped both of mine, just search "Savage bolt lift kit" in the search bar, it should come up. $20 if I remember right.

Can't help you on anything else, both my model 10 and 12 both run shockingly smooth. I'd put my 12 action against any custom action for smoothness. It does have a upgraded fluted bolt though. I've felt a big horn and a defiance, and I still prefer my 12 over them. Blows my buddy's Howa action out of the water for sure.
 
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#13
Friday said:
Primary extraction is a big issue on factory Remington and savage rifles most of the time there is not enough which sucks with a Remington because you have to sweat the bolt handle on and off,, which is a great time to put a PTG threaded handle on I’ve never had a primary extraction issue on a savage but here’s a great write up.

Savage Shooters - Primary Extraction: What is it?

It seems a number of people out there don't seem to know what primary extraction is or what it does. Hopefully this quick FAQ and the accompanying video's will resolve that. Primary extraction is the initial phase of extracting a fired cartridge from the chamber of the rifle by mechanical...
www.savageshooters.com
Click to expand...

Great write up! Much clearer now what primary extraction is. I understand the purpose of the baffle and how it works with the bolt handle to achieve PE.

Another thought just occurred to me, perhaps this is something of a reloading issue, too?...I shoot lapua brass, I’m on my 5th or 6th firing. I usually only neck size but have recently started neck sizing as well as full length body sizing (2 separate dies). Anybody care to weigh in with a thought on how that could be affecting things, if any? Brass stretching and making tighter chamber fit perhaps?

Thanks for everyone’s input so far!
 
#15
For the sake of the Primary Extraction issue, the front baffle does not impact it in any way. The extraction ramps are at the rear baffle where the ramp on the bolt handle and the ramp on the rear of the rear baffle make contact at the upper end of bolt rotation. Here is a Savage and a Remington. The bottom image shows the Savage Primary Extraction ramps mated between the bolt and the rear baffle.
rem-vs-savage-promary-extraction.jpg


If these ramps hit too soon it will create a situation where you are forcing the bolt rearward while the lugs are still engaged.

I am going to have to reverse my opinion on the early PE if it is only happening after you fire a round with neck sized brass. What you are experiencing is No Primary Extraction. Full length size the brass and try again. If you still have issues slide a .010 - .015 feeler gauge between the baffle and the rear of the action on the ramp side. If it extracts easily you need to correct PE.
 
Last edited:
#16
Been there. In my case it was the Cocking Piece Sleeve (yes, the actual name) needs a small amount of anti-seize on the exterior. If it has been dry or binding for a while it likely has scored the slot, with that scoring (indentation) causing a bulge that then grabs the inside of the bolt. You can file (not hammer) the bulge and clean up the slot with a diamond file. You can also simply get a new sleeve (I believe it is part # 1348930R).
 
#17
One other thing,
"Can I/should I chamfer lug edges to help unlock? Is something else binding that I’m not considering?"
Don't chamfer the edges of the bolt lugs or abutments. It may impact trigger timing on bolt close.
 
#18
stangfish said:
For the sake of the Primary Extraction issue, the front baffle does not impact it in any way. The extraction ramps are at the rear baffle where the ramp on the bolt handle and the ramp on the rear of the rear baffle make contact at the upper end of bolt rotation. Here is a Savage and a Remington. The bottom image shows the Savage Primary Extraction ramps mated between the bolt and the rear baffle.
rem-vs-savage-promary-extraction.jpg


If these ramps hit too soon it will create a situation where you are forcing the bolt rearward while the lugs are still engaged.

I am going to have to reverse my opinion on the early PE if it is only happening after you fire a round with neck sized brass. What you are experiencing is No Primary Extraction. Full length size the brass and try again. If you still have issues slide a .010 - .015 feeler gauge between the baffle and the rear of the action on the ramp side. If it extracts easily you need to correct PE.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I’ll mess around with sizing some if the brass first. I’ve been meaning to buy another 100 pieces anyway so I’ll start with some fresh stuff. Now that I’m thinking about it, the force to move the bolt rearward wasn’t always this much. Definitely could be related to brass growing over the amount of firings I’ve got in it and mainly working the necks.
 
#19
marvthehamster said:
Makes sense. I’ll mess around with sizing some if the brass first. I’ve been meaning to buy another 100 pieces anyway so I’ll start with some fresh stuff. Now that I’m thinking about it, the force to move the bolt rearward wasn’t always this much. Definitely could be related to brass growing over the amount of firings I’ve got in it and mainly working the necks.
Click to expand...

If your primarily neck sizing you with definitely get a tight spot when you hit the primary extraction.
My savage and nucleus get it if I neck size over 3 times without running it through a body die.

My sizing routine is neck size 3 times then anneal and bump shoulder back two thou and repeat.
 
#20
Have three savages and ready to move on to customs. They've all been good if you don't mind tweaking everything.

My first one had the primary extraction issue that despite being sent back twice to savage they didn't diagnose. It took me 4 months and 150 dollars of gunsmithing fees to fix.

Then tweaked the ejection issue with a larger ball bearing

Then fixed the bolt lift issue with a kit.

Then today after 4-5k rounds I had the bolt head retaining pin break on me.

I'm ready for my Archimedes to get here. They were great to start with, but IME novice experience, if you can afford it, I'd try to upgrade.
 

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#21
RogueTanker said:
Have three savages and ready to move on to customs. They've all been good if you don't mind tweaking everything.

My first one had the primary extraction issue that despite being sent back twice to savage they didn't diagnose. It took me 4 months and 150 dollars of gunsmithing fees to fix.

Then tweaked the ejection issue with a larger ball bearing

Then fixed the bolt lift issue with a kit.

Then today after 4-5k rounds I had the bolt head retaining pin break on me.

I'm ready for my Archimedes to get here. They were great to start with, but IME novice experience, if you can afford it, I'd try to upgrade.
Click to expand...

Lol

Just The smoothness alone will make the change away from savages worth it.

Wait till you screw in a barrel, you’ll quickly realize how sloppy savage action threads are.

Then the plethora of trigger choices!
 
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#22
stangfish said:
For the sake of the Primary Extraction issue, the front baffle does not impact it in any way. The extraction ramps are at the rear baffle where the ramp on the bolt handle and the ramp on the rear of the rear baffle make contact at the upper end of bolt rotation. Here is a Savage and a Remington. The bottom image shows the Savage Primary Extraction ramps mated between the bolt and the rear baffle.
rem-vs-savage-promary-extraction.jpg


If these ramps hit too soon it will create a situation where you are forcing the bolt rearward while the lugs are still engaged.

I am going to have to reverse my opinion on the early PE if it is only happening after you fire a round with neck sized brass. What you are experiencing is No Primary Extraction. Full length size the brass and try again. If you still have issues slide a .010 - .015 feeler gauge between the baffle and the rear of the action on the ramp side. If it extracts easily you need to correct PE.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I adjusted my Redding body die down until it bumped the shoulder just enough to allow smooth chambering. Way better than before.

The bolt still lifts easily, but needs a little jerk to start it moving rearward to eject the brass. Better than it was before resizing, but still needs some work, imo. This is with empty brass. I haven’t resized any loaded rounds and fired them yet to compare.

I need to mess with a feeler gauge between the rear baffle and action now and see if that helps PE. Sound right?
 
#23
marvthehamster said:
Ok, so I adjusted my Redding body die down until it bumped the shoulder just enough to allow smooth chambering. Way better than before.

The bolt still lifts easily, but needs a little jerk to start it moving rearward to eject the brass. Better than it was before resizing, but still needs some work, imo. This is with empty brass. I haven’t resized any loaded rounds and fired them yet to compare.

I need to mess with a feeler gauge between the rear baffle and action now and see if that helps PE. Sound right?
Click to expand...

Actually, no. I just resized half a dozen loaded rounds and cycled them. They chamber and eject very smoothly now. I’m going to resize what I’ve got loaded here and head to the range when I get a chance to see how they group. Resizing seems to affect OAL a bit so I’ll prob have to retrim and chamfer again bit I’m actually pretty pleased with results so far. Big improvement in the smoothness of the action cycling. Should have asked about bumping shoulders before.
 
#25
RogueTanker said:
Have three savages and ready to move on to customs. They've all been good if you don't mind tweaking everything.

My first one had the primary extraction issue that despite being sent back twice to savage they didn't diagnose. It took me 4 months and 150 dollars of gunsmithing fees to fix.

Then tweaked the ejection issue with a larger ball bearing

Then fixed the bolt lift issue with a kit.

Then today after 4-5k rounds I had the bolt head retaining pin break on me.

I'm ready for my Archimedes to get here. They were great to start with, but IME novice experience, if you can afford it, I'd try to upgrade.
Click to expand...

I'll give the Savages a good home, keep them clean and dry, and feed them good handloads.
 
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