Anschutz-Manners-SAS Comp Rifle

[D_TROS]

First off, Im gonna rant a little. PLEASE, take nothing personal, Im just a white trash counotry boy who loves rimfire shooting since a boy.
I would like to say I dont like the term 'trainer" as all rifles are technically "trainers" for improving your shooting ability. Another thing that bothers me is the, "Its just a 22." To me, these tactical 22's are not just 22's. THey are extremely fun to shoot, they do help me train for big matches without using up all my expensive match ammo, and I truly enjoy accurate rifles. I also compete in the monthly short/long range comps here on the hide, as well as the monthly CO rimfire shoot when I can fit it in. Only accurate rifles are interesting. Fact. And to get a rimfire truly accurate is not cheap. Those that have tried know this.

Haha and the last thing on my rant is the scope for a rimfire. THe whole, I cant put that expensive of a scope on a rimfire because its just a rimfire. I dont think I have to mention the obvious disclaimer that if you cant afford it, dont get it. But DO get all the scope you can afford. There are plenty of reliable affordable scopes out there. My first reccommendation for an great buy is the SWFA 12x mil/mil scope. Just got that for my brothers 22 comp rifle. Very nice little scope there.

For my rimfire comp rifle, I needed a repeater. The local match, includes 4 strings of 10 shots, with the last string only 60 sec long, as well as varying bonus strings at the end. Single loading my 40x just wasnt going to cut it. I started putting this rifle together before I sent off my 40x for the repeater conversion, luckily because I still have not received it back. Anyways, I found out about MT Guns (Mac Tilton). After doing some research, I found he retired this year, and his main machinist, Mark Chesebro, took over the company. It is now Chesebro Rifles.

http://www.chesebrorifles.com/

He specializes in rimfires, particularly the European makes. He can do repeater conversions to all single shot Anschutz rifles, so I started emailing him, and ended up with a 1407 barreled action repeater from him with 2-stage trigger, bedded in a Manners T2 90% carbon fiber fill (got that on the hide), with his bottom metal.



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Scope is S&B 3-20 with H2CMR Rect. It was on my match rifle until I switched to a Steiner 5-25. I would prob sell this scope and go with something cheaper, but there is no way I will be able to get out what I paid for the darn thing and Im not about to take a $500 loss, so it goes onto the 22. I have over 22 mils of elev left over on top of a 20moa base (50 yd zero), so I should be able to comfortably shoot to 400 yards. I feel this is about max range with a 22 for several reasons, but the most important is accuracy. The ammo and velocity variations makes it impossible to hold better than 2 moa. I can break clay pidgeons (sp) right at 50% of the time and they are MOA. I find I miss more up and down than I do left or right. It is still fun shooting my 400 yd steel and hitting it better than some friends that cant do it with their high power rifle.

Now, I have taken this out twice and still have some issues. I am hoping it is due to the colder weather. I have yet to shoot this in warmer than 30*F weather. I also have been testing this with and with out suppressor. THere has been some discussion on the effects of a suppressor and accuracy on s rimfire, but from my cold weather tests, I have noticed little to no varience.

Groups were shot from cheap ammo to expensive, from bottom to top, left to right. Groups all shot at 50 yards.

With Suppressed Armament Systems (SAS) Rimfire Suppressor
8*F
Very light breeze
4000DA


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Groups Without SAS
25*F
Shifty gusty winds
4500 DA


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Its irritating that I am having a flyer with the otherwise fantastic groups on the quality ammo. Its weird but if I focus super hard, I center punch the target. If I just shoot at a decent pace, I am getting high left groups, the same way the rifle jumps after recoil. The trigger is set at 1lb, so almost too light, but I usually shoot better groups. I am wondering if the cold and wind are large factors with the wax/lube on these match bullets.


I actually chrono'd my shooting while testing. No surprise that the Eley MAtch did best, with Center X right behind. I think blue box would have done worse if I shot more rounds. I just ran out of it.

AMMO (Rnds Fired) -- AVG -- ES -- SD

SK Rifle Match (15) -- 1065 -- 40 -- 12
Wolf Match Extra (20) -- 1072 -- 50 -- 11
Lapua Center X (15) -- 1078 -- 31 -- 8
Eley Club (20) -- 1046 -- 57 -- 14
Eley Team (10) -- 1048 -- 29 -- 8
Eley Match (20) -- 1069 -- 21 -- 5

After seeing these numbers, I am really excited to try some black box at long range. Should be good stuff With those spreads.


Here are the 2 short range comps I did, one in Jan, and one in Feb

Jan
Cant find a pic of target, but it scored:
NAME: D_TROS
MATCH:50 yd TAC-P
CLASS / SIGHTS: Scope
CALIBER: .22 LR
RIFLE: Annie 1407
AMMO: Eley Team
REST: Bipod + Rear bag

STAGE 1: 25
STAGE 2: 50
STAGE 3: 30
STAGE 4: 65
STAGE 5: 30

TOTAL SCORE MINUS PENALTIES: 200

NOTE ANY PENALTIES: S3 miss high (???), S5 close but no cigar. New rifle. First time out. Weather 8 deg, no to little wind. Lube gelling up??

Overall good day, just very disappointing missing one shot in stage 3. Had to have pushed it. Finger a little numb.


Feb


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Threw one shot for each of first three positions. Was really starting to get cold/windy at this time, but still good time. Used Wolf ME.


Here is a pic I had my friend take, as I thought I had good position. It looks like I am a little angled to the left, which is prob why I am getting bipod hop. Next time I go out I will have to focus on my alignment.



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Feel free to post thoughts/questions. I will update as i get more results/testing as the weather warms. Really hoping the "one shot I threw" is just me and not weather/rifle/ammo. I had some very tight groups with the quality ammo and then a random flyer. Very irritating. I would like to thank the people that have helped get this project done, as well as a couple people who have sold me some ammo, as its nearly impossible to find any. Its irritating that ammo has gotton so crazy

Regards,
DT

 

[D_TROS]

Should clarify, the bipod hop is very minimal. Like 1/4" up and left. That also happened to be the direction the wind was blowing, and where all my groups shifted to. It was cold so my follow through could have been lacking (numb finger), but it was something I was making an effort to do. I was also bundeled up so I couldnt get a good shoulder contact. I did not try to shoot off any other rests.
Was shooting more of a relaxed recoil than loading the bipod.
I prob just need some more dry-firing with the trigger, as it is lighter than I am used to using.

Will get some more pics of rifle soon.

DT

 

[bobtodrick]

"Its irritating that I am having a flyer with the otherwise fantastic groups on the quality ammo"

I've read on numerous rimfire blogs how common this is and how it has to due with the fact that, like it or not, most manufactures just don't take the same care in producing rimfire ammo as what we're used to in centerfire, including how it's packaged.
Take a box of off the shelf .22LR and weigh all the rounds and mike the bullet diameters...you'll probably be a bit surprised at the variance.
I've read a number of times having 1 in 5 flyers is not uncommon with regular ammo, though it will drop significantly with match ammo.
Still, the bench rest .22 guys I know all mike and weigh all their match ammo and separate them into separate piles.

 

[bm11]

From what I've found since I've been playing this rimfire game, is that "trainer" is a very accurate term in that a .22 will train you in a hurry: when I am perfect, my built CZ Precision Money Pit shoots lights out. However, if I relax on my fundamentals at all, I immediately see it on paper.

I have found that my weekness is my hold. My trigger press is good, my position is good, but if I am not concentrating on holding the rifle into my shoulder exactly the same way, every single time, I can see the results on paper. With a centerfire at this stage of my shooting I can bang out a .5 moa 5 shot group or better at 100y with little effort, but to shoot a .6-.7 moa group at 50y (.3-.35") with a rimfire requires perfection. And that is how I justify $2k+ for the rifle and $.35 a round for ammo. Because it makes me a better shooter.

 

[BenY 2013]

I love these types of threads! Exactly the info I want to see!

Would really love to see more pics of the rifle! How did you manage a T2 for an Annie? I emailed Manners awhile back and they told me that they were not doing custom inlets at the time. Are they now?

 

[D_TROS]

Hey DF
Good pt on the thorough cleaning. I just ran bore snake couple times with hopps#9. Next time out I think I'll just stock with what ammo I have most o and put a box or 2 through it before testing to get it good and seasoned. Maybe 20 ain't enough.
Of course I have to realize this is an older barrel and what I'm gettin is what I'm getting.

Bob, good pt on rimfire ammo being hit and miss, but I have seen what BR guys can do so I think I can expect a little more consistency than 1-5 flyer. 1-20 I would be ok with. Hmmm.

BM, that's the truth. I am starting to realize that basic fundamentals are huge. So I spose trainer is a good term to use. My peev I spose is when people say its jut a trainer, why invest so heavily, and attention to detail/consistency is definitely a good reason.

Ben, this was a used stock I picked up and Mark Chesebro bedded for me. He did a fantastic job at it as well. Even asked about my hand size to put action in correct alignment with my grip.

Thanks again guys, will post more pics of rifle this weekend if I can get away from the boss.

DT

 

[bm11]

I think that you are spot on in that it is of paramount importance that the accuracy be as good as possible (which generally means it is going to cost some cash.) It's really hard to learn what is right and wrong when the rifle is tossing rounds out all over the place on it's own.

 

[BenY 2013]

Thank you for the reply. I am just getting into the "accurate .22" craze! I love seeing stuff like this, all of the nice rifles make me jealous! Your rifle certainly does as well, love it! Would like to see more pics when you get a chance!

 

[shooterman_zero17]

If i let ANY of my fundamentals get lax when I'm shooting my CZ, I see it immediately also. My real weakness I find is keeping the butt of the rifle firm in my shoulder pocket. I fight with a balance of loading the Atlas and keeping the butt in place. But when I get that down, I'm golden. Another thing I find is that when I'm shooting a group at 100 yards (which is all I shoot that rifle at), the first round of the 5 almost every time will displace about a quarter inch or so in any direction (no real method to the madness I can see) from the rest. Last time I shot, I put 4 in the same hole, but the first round was about a quarter inch high right. I don't know if it's a fundamental issue I haven't addressed properly yet, or the fact that these projos can do 1000 different things inside 100 yards because the wind does about 4 different things to it on the way there...that's about the only issue I haven't worked out when shooting that rifle. As far as bipod hop, I have none; I'm squared up directly behind the rifle, if anything the center of the ret will displace a fraction above the point of aim just because of the weapon discharge. I used to have a much more drastic movement when firing but it's disappeared the more I've shot and improved my position.

Very unique rifle too, awesome build. I picked up some SK Rifle Match (a 500 round brick) from Midway when it was on sale for $74 ($91 shipped) and in stock, and now that it's about halfway gone, I find myself fighting the urge more to go shoot 75 rounds or so on a day off...I know when it runs out I might not have much more luck shooting any of my .22s for quite a while.

 

[PatrickChewing]

Great read! Thank you very much for the write up!

 

[komishe]

I think Foosking and shooterman pretty much covered it.

Very cool rifle

I now have rimfire envy

 

[Metalhead0483]

From what I've found since I've been playing this rimfire game, is that "trainer" is a very accurate term in that a .22 will train you in a hurry: when I am perfect, my built CZ Precision Money Pit shoots lights out. However, if I relax on my fundamentals at all, I immediately see it on paper.

+1 This is exactly why I spend so much time working with my rimfire. Both my CZ 452 and my 10/22 will put every round I send downrange into a dime-sized group at 50 yards if I'm doing everything right, but if I relax my concentration and let myself slip even a little bit things open up immediately. Obviously the same basic thing happens with my centerfire rifles, but for some reason it's far more apparent with my .22s. That's why I call them "trainers."

 

[RicosRevenge]

Have you tried to find any Lapua Polar Biathalon?

When it warms up, you'll probably need to do your testing all over again. Cold (and heat) does some crazy things.

It looks like you are doing just fine with non-sorted ammo.

Rico

PS... try some RWS R-50 if you can find some.

 

[Hoser]

Vey cool rifle dude. Like you I have had great luck with Eley Blue. I wish I had bought more than two cases a few years back when they were only $230 each.

I am thinking sleeving my 54 Action might be a better option than chopping on my 40X. Or maybe just shooting my 1827 Fortner straight up.

Your not alone with expensive glass on a 22. I have a S&B 5-25 on my 40X.

 

[D_TROS]

MORE PICS!
Finally.

[

Like I said, the repeater is a mod done by Mark Ches. himself. It runs flawlessly. Would def reccommend.
Also that annie 2-stage trigger is amazing. Really like it.

Regards,
DT

 

[bm11]

Yeah, that rig is straight bad ass! Any luck getting it to shoot any better yet?

 

[Comber]

Very nice.

Any chance for a sneak peak on the bottommetal/mag.solution ? I have a Annie64 that would look mighty fine with magazinefeeding...

 

[D_TROS]

Yeah, that rig is straight bad ass! Any luck getting it to shoot any better yet?

Thanks BM, appreciate it. No luck as of yet as I have only been steel plinking and prarie dog shooting. Havnt been back on paper yet. Will update onco I do.

Very nice.

Any chance for a sneak peak on the bottommetal/mag.solution ? I have a Annie64 that would look mighty fine with magazinefeeding...

You mean with the rifle out of the stock?
I can do that. Magazine feeding is the way to go. That is why I had my 40x converted, but I wasnt sure if I would get it back, so I looked into this. Always wanted an Anschutz anyways
The conversion is proprietary to the smith I used. He developed/invented the conversion and uses his own BM and mag alterations.

Only down side is that the mags he uses (CZ maybe?? cant remember) have to made from metal to get a good solid consistent fit/feel, which limits the mag capacity to 5 rnds, as the 10 rnd mags are plastic. The plastic mags have reliability issues so he wont do them. Other than that, I like it. And I have several mags so it not a huge issue at all.

Regards,
DT

 

[BenY 2013]

That is a sweet looking rig! How far have you been shooting pdogs with it?

 

[ScottyD]

Very nice looking rifle. Thanks for all the pics and good info in this thread. The chesbro link was great. He's got some nice hard-to-find LEFTY's in stock. THANKS!

Also, can you give me any info about this Denver area Rimfire match you're shooting? I'm very interested. Where, when, who do I contact...-That would be great!

Regards,

ScottyD

 

[Comber]

You mean with the rifle out of the stock?
I can do that. Magazine feeding is the way to go. That is why I had my 40x converted, but I wasnt sure if I would get it back, so I looked into this. Always wanted an Anschutz anyways
The conversion is proprietary to the smith I used. He developed/invented the conversion and uses his own BM and mag alterations.

Only down side is that the mags he uses (CZ maybe?? cant remember) have to made from metal to get a good solid consistent fit/feel, which limits the mag capacity to 5 rnds, as the 10 rnd mags are plastic. The plastic mags have reliability issues so he wont do them. Other than that, I like it. And I have several mags so it not a huge issue at all.

Regards,
DT

Yes, out of stock, please.

If its CZ mags, there are 10 shot metal magazines out there but the owners will probably be somewhat Gollumlike in protecting the preciousss...

The Annie I have seems to have a cut out for magazines in the bottom of the mechanisme already, with what looks like a tiny plate welded in the bottom of the would be mag recess, I asked about it over at rimfirecentral but was left none the wiser. As the going rate for old single shot matchguns over here are in the vincinty of around $200, I thought it could be interesting to have a browse on a working solution for a mag fed build.

 

[noeesp]

That is a sick looking rig. I am going to call Mark, looks like he does amazing work

 

[JMC]

I had called him after seeing this thread and Mark told me that he only does conversions on the Anschutz 54 based actions not on any of the 64 based actions. They use CZ magazines. And its around $250 for a conversion done to your Anschutz 54.


He did have 2 conversions currently completed at his shop. 1407's I believe for like $1100.

 

[flatland1]

I did a trade years ago when Mac Tilton was still running the shop. Had one of the CMP H&R M12s with that club of a stock, and really didn't want to get into a DIY re-stocking job. So I called Mac, told him what I had, and also told him I had four LR prone rifles in Robertson H&H stocks. I wanted whichever Anschutz M54 that would have a prone stock shaped & proportioned close as possible to the H&H. He picked out a 1611 for me that had been expertly bedded in devcon, complete with Anschutz iron sights. I sent him the M12, along with just over $400 boot. When that 1611 arrived, it was love at 1st sight - yeah, the stock had a few scratches & dings, but it was also a ringer for my H&H stocks, and even has an adjustable cheekpiece. Best money I ever spent on a trade.

I shoot it with coat & sling, slow prone, so the single shot isn't a handicap. Just love that 5017 trigger - don't know how light it's set, but it's a crispy critter - absolutely dead-nuts perfect. I shoot Wolf ME through it on the NRA 100yd smallbore target, and it'll clean that target everytime - everytime I don't screw-up that is. Great tool for diagnostic work on my prone position - no recoil to mask mistakes, and consistent position & follow-through are essential if you want to stay in the X-ring.

I've still got a couple of the CMP 40Xs - the heavy bbl model is in such good shape that I'm not going to screw with modifying it. But the older std wt. bbl model is in pretty rough shape, with non-matching receiver/bolt S/Ns, really crappy bore, and a stock that looks a little like a chew toy for beavers. There's a Krieger 22RF blank in sendero contour out in the shop, along with a PTG Ultimate EPS reamer - one of these days, the old bbl's going to get pulled & replaced by the Krieger. Maybe by then, I'll have figured out what stock I want to use on it.

 

[D_TROS]

That is a sweet looking rig! How far have you been shooting pdogs with it?

I have confirmed kills out to 220 yds, but yesterday while shooting the dirt was wet so tough to tell if hits or misses. More than likely misses. My longest confirmed with 22 is 342 yds LRF confirmed. That wwas with my CMP Rem 40x though. If you look at my ele knob, you will notice the double turn indicator up. I was at I think 19.4 mils or something for 375 yards. Didnt see impact again cause the wet ground, but the Pdog ran like it got close.

Very nice looking rifle. Thanks for all the pics and good info in this thread. The chesbro link was great. He's got some nice hard-to-find LEFTY's in stock. THANKS!

Also, can you give me any info about this Denver area Rimfire match you're shooting? I'm very interested. Where, when, who do I contact...-That would be great!

Regards,

ScottyD

http://www.wildlifehunters.com/22lrsteeldogs.htm

This the link. It is a lot of fun and surprisingly challenging. The match director, Cy, canceled the match until further notice recently due to the inability to find rimfire ammo. Ass-hats are stockpiling it and not shooting it, or reselling for astronomical prices while real life blue collar people who want to shoot everyday are left with nothing. SO irritating. (not the canceling, the lack of ammo) Last month only a couple people showed up cause of no ammo available. Used to have a lot of kids and everything show up. Will let you know when its back on. Hopefully by this summer.

I had called him after seeing this thread and Mark told me that he only does conversions on the Anschutz 54 based actions not on any of the 64 based actions. They use CZ magazines. And its around $250 for a conversion done to your Anschutz 54.


He did have 2 conversions currently completed at his shop. 1407's I believe for like $1100.

If you keep your eye out on gunbroker or other places, some really good deals pop up for 54 actions from 400-600 and that would put you with a real nice Annie repeater for darn reasonable price.

I've still got a couple of the CMP 40Xs - the heavy bbl model is in such good shape that I'm not going to screw with modifying it. But the older std wt. bbl model is in pretty rough shape, with non-matching receiver/bolt S/Ns, really crappy bore, and a stock that looks a little like a chew toy for beavers. There's a Krieger 22RF blank in sendero contour out in the shop, along with a PTG Ultimate EPS reamer - one of these days, the old bbl's going to get pulled & replaced by the Krieger. Maybe by then, I'll have figured out what stock I want to use on it.

Keep your eye open. I am getting my 40x with the conversion done back tomor, and will post a review with pics etc as soon as I return from OK. Might be something to look into.


Regards,
DT

 

[R.Walters]

Wow! Great write up! Good looking 22!!