Spent the summer trying the entry level precision rifles from Tikka, CZ, Ruger, Bergara and Savage and I'm ready to take a step up. Although the Tikka and CZ seem to be pretty accurate with the right ammo I'm hearing that the next step ...that next 1/8" in grouping is quite possible with a better rifle. So, I'm hoping for feedback from those who've already been down this path. Pros and cons of either is fine
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Anschutz or Vudoo?
- Thread starter williams1962
- Start date
Competitions, hunting, just fun shooting? Needs or wants? Help us help you by providing some info on your uses.
With that alone being said- anschutz. Its been their bag for at least the last century.
But if prs mag feeding 10+ rounds then vudoo.
Beginning in about 1856, Anschutz has a relatively long history with firearms. The reputation Anschutz has with rimfire accuracy goes back to 1954, when the 54 match action rifle was first produced. By the early to mid-1960s, Anschutz had established its name in rimfire shooting competition.
Having shot 3 different anschutz 64's and a vodoo. I think it's hard to say. It's what you want they both shoot amazing. The rifles accuracy is sufficient to win any match.
I've got a Anschutz 64R Target sport. It has the off hand 3P stock. My buddy has 2 Anschutz 64R target trainers. I like his stocks better because they are flat on the bottom and adjustable for LOP and cheek height. All three are hammers. I'd say Cons would be not alot of aftermarket unless you get custom work done. The newer 1761 action replaces the 64 action and that's totally different. But supposed to be even better.
The voodoo my buddy has is great. I've shot I a bunch and there's really no complaints. Aftermarket has everything you could ever want.
I'd try to narrow down your use, your budget and continue to research. I've read alot of claims that the CZ's are just as accurate. I don't know. I've no first hand experience.
I've got a Anschutz 64R Target sport. It has the off hand 3P stock. My buddy has 2 Anschutz 64R target trainers. I like his stocks better because they are flat on the bottom and adjustable for LOP and cheek height. All three are hammers. I'd say Cons would be not alot of aftermarket unless you get custom work done. The newer 1761 action replaces the 64 action and that's totally different. But supposed to be even better.
The voodoo my buddy has is great. I've shot I a bunch and there's really no complaints. Aftermarket has everything you could ever want.
I'd try to narrow down your use, your budget and continue to research. I've read alot of claims that the CZ's are just as accurate. I don't know. I've no first hand experience.
If you are mostly going to be off a bench, an Anschutz 64 is pretty good. If you want to shoot ARA stock/factory (what ever it's called) they are considered "unlimited". Oddly enough, a Weatherby Mark XXII (really an Anschutz 64) is on the approved list for ARA factory/stock class...I have one, and if I find an ARA benchrest match that isn't too far away it will get pulled out of the safe an a nice scope mounted.
For offhand, Anschutz 1416AV, 1712AV, 1712 Silhouette would be good. I have a 1416AV and a 1712AV, they are great. I also have a Vudoo Three-60 in an MPA BA Comp chassis, accuracy it outstanding, shooting offhand with it not so much, it's heavy (over 16#). Vudoo are awesome, but even their lightest model with a carbon wrapped barrel is still quite a bit heavier than I'd want for any off hand stuff. Anschutz 1710 HB is a really nice rifle too, but also heavy.
For offhand, Anschutz 1416AV, 1712AV, 1712 Silhouette would be good. I have a 1416AV and a 1712AV, they are great. I also have a Vudoo Three-60 in an MPA BA Comp chassis, accuracy it outstanding, shooting offhand with it not so much, it's heavy (over 16#). Vudoo are awesome, but even their lightest model with a carbon wrapped barrel is still quite a bit heavier than I'd want for any off hand stuff. Anschutz 1710 HB is a really nice rifle too, but also heavy.
I own two Anschutz 1761's (a classic and an MPR) as well as two Vudoo 3-60's. For accuracy, they run Vudoo, MPR, Vudoo, Classic. All are in the .2 - .4 category off of the bench at 50 yards with Center-X (all of them like the same lot). As has been said they are relatively even single loaded off of the front rest. For versatility, the Vudoo's win. Knowing what I know now I would probably still buy the 1761 Classic (a beautiful, nice shooting rifle) after I bought the Vudoo.
I have a few Anschutz rifles; 54, 2018, 1727 & 1827.
I rarely shoot them anymore. I mainly shoot my Vudoos.
I rarely shoot them anymore. I mainly shoot my Vudoos.
A rifle that shoots good ammo well. That's what shooters want.
Vudoo or Anschutz? Of course what its use will be will matter a great deal.
Ten ten-shot groups at 100 yards, shot yesterday morning, below. The outside-to-outside average of the ten groups is 0.995 inches. Still a few strays, but perhaps that's to be expected even with a good lot of ammo.
Vudoo or Anschutz? Of course what its use will be will matter a great deal.
Ten ten-shot groups at 100 yards, shot yesterday morning, below. The outside-to-outside average of the ten groups is 0.995 inches. Still a few strays, but perhaps that's to be expected even with a good lot of ammo.
Anschutz AND Vudoo. There, I fixed it for you.
Like others have mentioned, figure out your requirements, discipline(s) you plan to shoot, and what rules may create issue.
Anschutz ruled the range for many years and still does in many disciplines. What we are experiencing now is a renaissance in rimfire rifles. Time was that one had either Anschutz, or Win 52's and some Remington offerings that had been worked over by one of a handful of rimfire gunsmiths out there. With CNC machining, PRS-style matches, and other reasons, there are turn-key accurate (and reliable) rimfire rifles from $500-$8000. Most of the threads in the forum involve someone overwhelmed with information and offerings, how awesome a problem is that?! 20 years ago I bought a Ruger 77/22, Shilen barrel, Rifle Basix trigger, and a Boyds Varmint stock with the intent to build a rimfire trainer. That project is still unfinished and sitting in a box. Why? because a $550 Tikka could probably wipe it out at the range.
I went in with a hope for the best, plan for the worst. Bergara barreled action fitted to top shelf parts in case I didn't like the Bergara and swapped it out for a Vudoo or RimX.
Where am I at now? Same Bergara, building up a RimX, and just picked up an Anschutz 1416 HB 16.5" beavertail that I have every intention to shoot at local matches.
Oh, and if it helps your decision at all. Annie magazines are 3x the price of Vudoo and no extended base plate to go past 10rds. The only work around is modifying a Wisner's magazine.
Like others have mentioned, figure out your requirements, discipline(s) you plan to shoot, and what rules may create issue.
Anschutz ruled the range for many years and still does in many disciplines. What we are experiencing now is a renaissance in rimfire rifles. Time was that one had either Anschutz, or Win 52's and some Remington offerings that had been worked over by one of a handful of rimfire gunsmiths out there. With CNC machining, PRS-style matches, and other reasons, there are turn-key accurate (and reliable) rimfire rifles from $500-$8000. Most of the threads in the forum involve someone overwhelmed with information and offerings, how awesome a problem is that?! 20 years ago I bought a Ruger 77/22, Shilen barrel, Rifle Basix trigger, and a Boyds Varmint stock with the intent to build a rimfire trainer. That project is still unfinished and sitting in a box. Why? because a $550 Tikka could probably wipe it out at the range.
I went in with a hope for the best, plan for the worst. Bergara barreled action fitted to top shelf parts in case I didn't like the Bergara and swapped it out for a Vudoo or RimX.
Where am I at now? Same Bergara, building up a RimX, and just picked up an Anschutz 1416 HB 16.5" beavertail that I have every intention to shoot at local matches.
Oh, and if it helps your decision at all. Annie magazines are 3x the price of Vudoo and no extended base plate to go past 10rds. The only work around is modifying a Wisner's magazine.
Depends on if you want to just buy off the shelf or be able to select components and have the rifle built to what you want. IMO any good solid action coupled with a good barrel will shoot. ammo is a given as you need it regardless of what you get or shoot.
Lee
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Why wait they have the William Buck online matches here they have a class to shoot for everyone.
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Lee
As was said above, both!
I have and love both!
I do shoot the Vudoo more often due to it matching the ergos of my other rifles. Better for “training”.
I have and love both!
I do shoot the Vudoo more often due to it matching the ergos of my other rifles. Better for “training”.
Anschutz vs Vudoo. When it comes to The quality of build and accuracy, both are at the top of factory built guns. It takes a custom built benchrest gun to outshoot either one. When you compare accuracy it's a toss up but looks has to go to Anschutz as they still offer some beautiful wood stocks. No such thing as a Vudoo stock. Here is the real difference between the two. Anschutz is classic German engineering. Anschutz gunsmith believe there is nothing you or I can do to their guns to make them shoot any better than they can. On the other hand Vudoo is the classic American tinker toy. It was designed to be modified. Based on the classic Remington 700 action there are many aftermarket triggers, stocks ,barrels and scope rings that are easily fitted to these actions. Try making any of these changes to a Anschutz and you'll really understand the difference between Anschutz and Vudoo!
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If you like wood. I hate wood stocks. That said you could put a Vudoo in a wood stock without any trouble if that’s your thing. Tons of 700 footprint wood stocks out there. Vudoos aren’t just factory built but custom as well. You can order it however you like. People seem to forget this from seeing a few spec models they have listed. You can get any stock, barrel length/contour/rifling/twist, etc.
I've held off on contributing here ... not wanting to stir things up or be negative about a great brand but here goes.
My 64MPR mag release spring is ridiculously stiff. The rifle was un-useable until I took it apart and machined out some relief. Then it was still ridiculous but useable. I made a wedge so that when in storage the release would be pushed back in as an attempt to weaken the spring.
Anschutz makes a lot of great looking wooden stocks and at least an equal number of ordinary ones. My grief came with action screw torques. The RFC crowd counseled lower numbers and I was frequently caught out with them coming loose. Then, as I was working my way up to Anschutz's numbers I snapped an action screw.
I'm well aware that the 64MPR was pretty much a bottom of the line offering but when I was considering the next purchase a Vudoo was the easy choice. The top tier Anschutz rifles that were in the running are near enough the same price as a Vudoo so I ignored the difference. I don't understand trying to save a dollar when you are spending a foolish amount of money on an unjustifiable purchase. To be clear, the OP did not raise this issue.
The decider for me was getting to choose all the options and then VGW customer service if anything came up, nothing has.
So that is how I got my Wifle ... ie. its all I think about, its all I talk about, we spend tons of time together and she ain't cheap to feed.
My 64MPR mag release spring is ridiculously stiff. The rifle was un-useable until I took it apart and machined out some relief. Then it was still ridiculous but useable. I made a wedge so that when in storage the release would be pushed back in as an attempt to weaken the spring.
Anschutz makes a lot of great looking wooden stocks and at least an equal number of ordinary ones. My grief came with action screw torques. The RFC crowd counseled lower numbers and I was frequently caught out with them coming loose. Then, as I was working my way up to Anschutz's numbers I snapped an action screw.
I'm well aware that the 64MPR was pretty much a bottom of the line offering but when I was considering the next purchase a Vudoo was the easy choice. The top tier Anschutz rifles that were in the running are near enough the same price as a Vudoo so I ignored the difference. I don't understand trying to save a dollar when you are spending a foolish amount of money on an unjustifiable purchase. To be clear, the OP did not raise this issue.
The decider for me was getting to choose all the options and then VGW customer service if anything came up, nothing has.
So that is how I got my Wifle ... ie. its all I think about, its all I talk about, we spend tons of time together and she ain't cheap to feed.
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You need to check your torque wrench. Never had any problems torquing their action screws to specs even though it has very little effect on accuracy. Just point of aim. Agree with you on their mag release system. It was awful. 64 has been replaced with the 1761 which has a better mag release .
Torque wrench was good. When I posted on this a couple years back there was one other guy who responded that he had had the same experience.
Clearly not a widespread problem.
It's just money, and you can't take it with you...might as well enjoy the finer things in life.
You said, you would be shooting mostly bench and some offhand. The Vudoo and others custom's will be too heavy for offhand IMO, but would be great for bench. What Bergara did you try? Did it have a trigger replacement. I have 2 B14R that shoot great with a trigger tech Diamond, but B14R are too heavy for offhand IMO.
The trigger is the key to accurate shooting. The Bergara, Vudoo's and other custom take the best triggers. The Anchutz's have their great triggers.
For benchrest shooting a Vudoo single shot or a Anchutz of some kind would the way to go.
I'm still just playing off the bench but I'm certainly going to try my hand at bench, offhand, prone and silhouette competitions. I've reworked/replaced triggers in every gun I've tested and now going to try some chassis while I contemplate the step up in quality. I'm also open to the notion that my "type a" personality will have to surrender the goal of perfection to the vulnerability of the ammo mfg.
After 25 years of high level archery competition, this is a nice relaxing way to fill my tank. I'm grateful for the willingness of others to share their experience, it's been a big help
After 25 years of high level archery competition, this is a nice relaxing way to fill my tank. I'm grateful for the willingness of others to share their experience, it's been a big help
I know where you are coming from. I competed in long range benchrest 600yds and 1000yds. Centerfire is a lot more consistent than rimfire. Everything effects it, weather, wind. What shoots today, may not shoot the same tomorrow.
Not really, even the new Carbon Sinister is still around 8 pounds.
I don't like carbon barrels myself. I would use the Tikka or CZ for offhand and Silhouette competitions. A 1 moa gun would be fine for that, being it is offhand. Then get a Vudoo SS or mag feed for the other shooting. You will want a heavy gun for that.
Op, since you, myself, and most anyone except Olympic level shooters, are not capable of a high degree of precision in offhand, I suggest just getting whatever medium priced rifle/s feel best for you for offhand shooting "if" you are just having fun like 99% of us are.
Then depending how serious you are for BR get as much quality and reputation that is within your budget.
For a single shot BR rifle I'd get this action and have the best 22rf BR smith around build it.
For an all around single shot this comes to my mind foremost.
http://www.turboaction.net/our-products-services/3p-builds/
This is a forum where repeaters and dynamic matches are prevalent so you have plenty of advice to consider as far as that's concerned.
Then depending how serious you are for BR get as much quality and reputation that is within your budget.
For a single shot BR rifle I'd get this action and have the best 22rf BR smith around build it.
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For an all around single shot this comes to my mind foremost.
http://www.turboaction.net/our-products-services/3p-builds/
This is a forum where repeaters and dynamic matches are prevalent so you have plenty of advice to consider as far as that's concerned.
What were u shooting this.with?A rifle that shoots good ammo well. That's what shooters want.
Vudoo or Anschutz? Of course what its use will be will matter a great deal.
Ten ten-shot groups at 100 yards, shot yesterday morning, below. The outside-to-outside average of the ten groups is 0.995 inches. Still a few strays, but perhaps that's to be expected even with a good lot of ammo.
Awesome shooting! That 1712 is a hammer. The fwt are difficult to find. I have the gray stock but haven't shot it off the bench yet.
I am going to go down the 22lr rabbit hole in the next week or so. I currently shoot out at our local 1000 yards center fire and 500 meter moa shoots. I also shoot ELR so I have the skills to shoot well. The 3 I am looking at are the big 3 Anschutz, Vudoo and CZ 457.
From the YouTube videos I have seen all 3 shoot great and are very accurate. The CZ is definitely lower in cost were the other 2 are a wash price wise from what I want. The one thing I do like is the CZ457 drop in barrels no smithing involved. This appeals to as I have 2 AI switch barrels.. I welcome you thoughts.
Thank you.
From the YouTube videos I have seen all 3 shoot great and are very accurate. The CZ is definitely lower in cost were the other 2 are a wash price wise from what I want. The one thing I do like is the CZ457 drop in barrels no smithing involved. This appeals to as I have 2 AI switch barrels.. I welcome you thoughts.
Thank you.
For what it's worth. First, Anschutz. Will shoot with any factory Built 22lr made. Will take a custom build to outshoot it but you buy them and shoot them as is. The Germans believe there's nothing you can change on their guns to make them better than the factory. No trigger swaps. very few aftermarket stocks and barrels are extremely difficult to change out! Now Vudoo. Just the opposite. Tinker toy dream! Aftermarket parts everywhere and easily customized and have the same level of accuracy as Anschutz. Last is CZ. While a good Gun for the money, They are not on the same level as Anschutz or Vudoo. No where near! Most shooters buy them because of price and then start throwing money at them trying to make them competitive with Anschutz and Vudoos.
Thanks that what I thought. I am a believer in the buy once cry once. That save you the time and money and frustration of a bad purchase. In the end you end up with what you really wanted anyway.
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
@GIXXER2000
I bought a cz457 and while it shot great, I still wondered if I should have just bought a vudoo. A year later, I bought a vudoo and the cz sits in the safe. There is nothing wrong with the cz but I like the full size mags and the better trigger in my vudoo.
I bought a cz457 and while it shot great, I still wondered if I should have just bought a vudoo. A year later, I bought a vudoo and the cz sits in the safe. There is nothing wrong with the cz but I like the full size mags and the better trigger in my vudoo.
I bought one CZ, a varmint 22rf bolt model. As is it wouldn't shoot match ammo less than 3/4" at 50Y?! I sold it a few months later. I do think I got a poor example of the brand?? These do feed and extract well from what I've seen, mine did.
Of the 4 Anschutz 64's I've owned over the years, in both match and hunting configurations, none exhibited disappointing precision with match ammo like that CZ.
Though one MPR needed the extractor tuned to make it eject reliably.
I really like the Anschutz 54 actions. I wouldn't mind one in a chassis system at all, maybe more so than a Vudoo and equivalent. Mostly because of the Anschutz M54 match trigger feel which is hard to describe and even more exquisite to experience.
Of the 4 Anschutz 64's I've owned over the years, in both match and hunting configurations, none exhibited disappointing precision with match ammo like that CZ.
Though one MPR needed the extractor tuned to make it eject reliably.
I really like the Anschutz 54 actions. I wouldn't mind one in a chassis system at all, maybe more so than a Vudoo and equivalent. Mostly because of the Anschutz M54 match trigger feel which is hard to describe and even more exquisite to experience.
I won 5 matchs at 200yd with 64, I love it, looking for a benchrest stock no luck so far. Agree with mag. release, but put on extended release no problems.
Thanks! I picked it up used from a gun store along with a 1717 and 1720. They are all shooters. I’m thinking of sending the stock to HS Precision for them to re-coat.
Just ordered an Anschutz 1710 Competition in an XLR chassis. Also contemplated a 54.18 in a GRS stock. I shoot .22 almost exclusively so I didn't desire a trainer for a centerfire rifle. Anschutz appeared to be lighter than a similarly equipped Vudoo which was a plus for me. Anschutz was a little more expensive in the same chassis. Vudoo would probably have been the safer choice given their customer service reputation but for some reason the Anschutz just spoke to me in way that the Vudoo didn't. Lots of times those internal voices cause me problems. We shall see.
1710 Annie is a good choice. Won't take a backseat to any Vudoo! As to the GRS stock.I like them, Look good and are built good but everyone I have dealt with has had a sloppy action inlet. Will require some bedding.
Here is my Vudoo build I just ordered.
Apparition Rifle
Action V22 360 3lug
Scope base 40 MOA or 30 MOA and use ERA-TAC 0-70 MOA adjustable mount
Blot Knob 3 ring large
Barrel 22in MTU matte finished stainless/ sniper grey
Threaded muzzle
MPA BA Comp/ Sniper Grey
Trigger Tech Diamond Two Stage/ Curved Trigger shoe
Apparition Rifle
Action V22 360 3lug
Scope base 40 MOA or 30 MOA and use ERA-TAC 0-70 MOA adjustable mount
Blot Knob 3 ring large
Barrel 22in MTU matte finished stainless/ sniper grey
Threaded muzzle
MPA BA Comp/ Sniper Grey
Trigger Tech Diamond Two Stage/ Curved Trigger shoe
