Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

[Sig33]

Hey gents, I am in the market for a 22lr to supplement my 308 work rifle. Its main goal would be to give me a lots of extra trigger time and <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> be used in local tactical-style rimfire matches. I have pretty much settled on one of these two rifles (but I am still open to other suggestions).

I love the 10/22 platform and I know Tony Kidd makes great rifles. But the Annies are, well, Annie. Enough said.

Which of these rifles, is going to be the most accurate? And just how accurate are they with the right ammo? I know it is very much dependent on the combo of rifle, shooter, and ammo, but what are the general 50 yard groups seen from these rifles? Would it be safe to assume they shoot in the .20s? .30s?

Which will be more dependable?

I would greatly appreciate input from any people with experience from these two rifles.

Thanks,

Sig

 

[Speeddog]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

I've never shot or handled a Kidd so can't say anything about them.

I acquired a 64MPR for exactly the same reasons you posted. I found it has some goods and bads.

First the good: it is very accurate. I shoot it from an Atlas/rear bag setup and the rifle will routinely shoot one hole groups at 50 yards. At 100 it spreads out a little but is below .5MOA. The trigger is nice and crisp with factory settings and it is nicely adjustable. The movable butt pad also allows you to fine tune the cheek weld. I'm shooting mine with a Leupold 22 specific target scope mounted on an Annie rale and the butt plate feature is very helpful. I have always like the Anschutz rail for its flexibility: you'll need a Triad adaptor if you're going to mount an Atlas or other pic mounted bipod. It takes Anschutz hand stops and other accessories and allows for almost infinite positioning, so another plus.

Now for the "bad:"

The stock is nicely finished and stippled; having said that it's nothing special. It's sort of a generic all purpose stock that is NOT a particularly good analogue for the tactical stocks that are out there (I have Tom Manner's T4As and T5As on my center fire rifles). As a result the whole package feels and handles differently than a centerfire tac build. This is not a problem for me but may be a consideration for you.

Second the ejector on the 64 action is notoriously weak. This has been posted on all sorts of forums along with some questionable fixes. I left mine alone; I found that simply cycling the bolt to bring the next round up almost always kicks the empty out when the brass just sites in receiver. This would NOT work in a rapid fire match since the method is not foolproof. Since I use the Annie for practice/trigger time and not matches I've just ignored the issue. I started shooting life with an Anschutz free rile, competing in 3 position small bore in the 1960s. I know that's ancient history but the action/ejector/trigger at the time was fabulous and I think better than the 64.

Overall I love shooting the rifle and take it out weekly for practice. The above shortcomings have been a bit of a pain and I've chosen to solve that with a Black Ops custom built around their new .22 action and barrel and a Manners T4A stock. I understand that's a bit of overkill but I'm going to use the Tac Ops to mimic my center fires and my Annie to simply practice the fundamentals.

As an aside my wife (who is a good shooter as well) will shoot the 64: its size, weight and configuration make it almost perfect for a woman or smaller shooter

Sorry if I've rambled on. Hope this helps

 

[Advokaten]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Addum- the part of the weak extraction of the Annies, well I think even though it is true, the issue is compounded, often by the used adding a picatinny rail to the action.

That rail will interfer with the ejection of the empties at times.

I have had two model 54, one target repeater and one Biathlon repeater, both shot great, had awsome triggers but with a rail and scopes mounted the same issues arose.

Today I shoot and use a Sako Quad, not in any way as much rifle as the annies, however it will feed, fire and eject 100% and that does it for me, for the hitting part, I only have a 1,5MOA need and it will meet and keep that always.

/Chris

 

[Speeddog]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

The scope rail is not a pic rail but rather an elevated "slide rail" that is Anschutz OEM. On my rifle, at least, the problem isn't with the empties hitting the rail and bouncing back into the receiver but, rather, inconsistent lateral ejection that is not affected by how forcefully or rapidly the bolt is manipulated.

 

[Sig33]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Speeddog, great review, thank you.

My work rifle had a straight vertical grip (Blaser Tac 2) and, as you said, I am concerned that the more "sporter" styled grip of the MPR may annoy me.

How much is that Black Ops setup gonna run you, if you dont mind me asking?

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

KIDD Supergrade....

I'm biased, you know that already... I get her next Wednesday!!!

 

[Speeddog]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSig33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speeddog, great review, thank you.

My work rifle had a straight vertical grip (Blaser Tac 2) and, as you said, I am concerned that the more "sporter" styled grip of the MPR may annoy me.

How much is that Black Ops setup gonna run you, if you dont mind me asking? </div></div>

A bit more than 4k. Mike guarantees the same accuracy as his center fire rifles: .3 MOA or better at 75yds for the .22 and builds it to the same standards as his high power sticks. I could have lessened that but I ended up going balls to the wall. I'm furnishing the scope and bipod, Mike's doing all the rest.

It is a bunch of bucks but is a virtual replica of some of my tac rifles. Mike is such a pleasure to do business with, and I'm such a junky for precision rifles, that I just couldn't resist. I probably won't sell the Annie since it's such a nice rifle and really good for my wife. On the other hand I expect I'll gravitate towards the Black Ops for serious practice. The latter was NOT around when I bought the 64MPR and other choices did not appeal to me (remember I've been an Anschutz owner since the '60s).

I suspect your choice will boil down to intent: if you want to practice the basics on a really accurate .22 the Anschutz will work perfectly. If you want to practice on a rifle that mimics your tac setups Black Ops can build you a better clone that is as accurate (or more accurate) than anything but an Anschutz full out competition rifle. The latter did not suit my current needs as those are single shot and I wanted to practice with a repeater (as is Black Ops).

Again, best of luck and hopes this helps.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

The Kidd will shoot .25-.35" 5 shot groups at 50 yards with the right ammo.

The Anschutz will be at least twice as accurate, maybe 3 times.

EDIT: I'm not talking a few lucky groups, I mean consistently.

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Kidd will shoot .25-.35" 5 shot groups at 50 yards with the right ammo.

The Anschutz will be at least twice as accurate, maybe 3 times.
</div></div>

I've only had my Supergrade for a couple weeks but I can tell you that thus far, it is more accurate than that. Federal Gold Medal Match produced a couple groups in the 1's and a few in the 2's - both five shot groups from 50 yards. I ran out of time and ammo, should be getting a few more boxes to try out this week, I will post some pics. I've only had around 100 rounds down the tube so I expect it to get better as the barrel gets sweetened up and I get used to her. So far its a dream to shoot.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Anschutz 64 is going to give you a much closer feel to your centerfire rifle. That sounds like what you are looking for.

I have never owned or fired a Kidd, but I have several Anschutz's, 2 are 64 MPR's.

My go to 22 LR is one of my 64 MPR's that is fitted with a Leupold Mark 4 6.5-25, tuner, tactical bolt knob and stock pack. 50 yards is not really where you will see the 64 MPR shine. There are any number of much less expensive 22 rifles that do extremely well at 50. When you start going beyond 150 yards, is you will see where the 64 MPR out shoot most others.

I shoot my 64 MPR out to 300 yards regularly and shoot groups in 2-2.5 MOA at this distance. This will be some of the best practice you can have to mimic your centerfire rifle. Shooting 300 yards with a 22 LR, it is very similar to firing a 308 at 800+ yards.

Understanding what you are trying to accomplish with the pending 22 purchase, I would recommend you get the 64 MPR. You will not regret the purchase.

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Nice rifle!

 

[steve123]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

I can't wait to shoot my newish MPR next week!!!

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Sig,

Here is an 64 MPR for sale on the hide and sound very nice. I got my first one for $800 lightly used and the second one for $900 like new in the box. First one I got 2 1/2 years ago and second about a year ago. This seems a fair price since they are $1,300-$1,400 new. Good luck

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3683995&gonew=1#UNREAD

Thanks SOCAl, a few more you might like.

Not trying to steal your thread Sig, just though some might like to see a few more pics of 22's. Good luck on your acquisition. As you can see I shoot a lot of different stuff, but the 64 MPR is the one that I always go to.

 

[golden_311]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

the supergrade has an incredible trigger, you can select the stock to your liking and is accurate. havent shot for groups yet. but it definately isnt a bolt action that will replicate your work rifle. its more of a 'twenty squirrels are coming and i need to put them down with authority' kind of rifle.

 

[Bubb]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

. Holly $hit it uploaded!!! And only 3 hours to do it! And she is up for sale!

 

[Sig33]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Aquatic Robot, awesome rig!

What kind of groups do you see at 50 without the tuner? And how much did the tuner tighten things up? There's a shop that has the MPR's in stock about 45 minutes from here, I think I'm gonna have to go check one out. How is the stock? I prefer more of a vertical grip angle to mimic my centerfire...the MPR looks like more of a sporter type stock.

And I can vouch for Socal's Supergrade shooting in the .1s and .2s...I just wonder how much better it would shoot with me behind it lol!

 

[Sig33]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Bubb, NIB?

 

[Bubb]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Pretty much... I have awful time up loading pics that took all f$&!@&$ morning! It is cherry (one) scratch on pistol grip!

 

[THibben]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Went thru the same loop, the MPR is extremely accurate and the trigger is heaven

The ejection problem, although a bit annoying can be fixed in about 15 minutes

Works OK with rail adapter

Terry

 

[Bubb]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Jigg if you want a Annie buy mine save 400$ if it isn't cherry I'll give your money back
And you can give me a free punch in the face for waiting your time?!? You won't find one newer cheaper! Oh and comes with a DIP picitinny rail!

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSig33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aquatic Robot, awesome rig!

What kind of groups do you see at 50 without the tuner? And how much did the tuner tighten things up? There's a shop that has the MPR's in stock about 45 minutes from here, I think I'm gonna have to go check one out. How is the stock? I prefer more of a vertical grip angle to mimic my centerfire...the MPR looks like more of a sporter type stock.

And I can vouch for Socal's Supergrade shooting in the .1s and .2s...<span style="font-weight: bold">I just wonder how much better it would shoot with me behind it lol! </span></div></div>

Get yer ass out to the range and come find out!

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jigg if you want a Annie buy mine save 400$ if it isn't cherry I'll give your money back
And you can give me a free punch in the face for waiting your time?!? You won't find one newer cheaper! Oh and comes with a DIP picitinny rail! </div></div>

Gaddam, Sig if you don't pick this up I might have to. That is a sweet deal.

 

[Speeddog]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: English</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Went thru the same loop, the MPR is extremely accurate and the trigger is heaven

The ejection problem, although a bit annoying can be fixed in about 15 minutes

Works OK with rail adapter

Terry </div></div>

Terry;

I'd love some insight into fixing the weak ejection. Can you advise or point me to a website.

Thanks

 

[THibben]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Speeddog

Think this covers it:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1102676

Any problems shout

Terry

 

[bhoges]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Love the 1827 rifle. I have two Anschutz rifle a 54MS and an 1813L. Pretty old both from 1985 and never a problem. Ive got over 10k rounds though them easy. Both great rifles its really the finer details. ID love to get a supergrade one day.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

Honestly I don't shoot at 50 yards any more. I don't have that much shooting time and I prefer to get practice that mimics my centerfire so I shoot my 64 MPR at 200 if the wind is moderate to high and 300 yards if the wind is not to bad.

Like everyone here will attest, finding the right ammo for your "specfic rifle" will be the key to tight groups. I shoot tactical and practical, not bench so I shoot prone off bipod and rear bag. I don't shoot for group size very often. When I found the right ammo, before the tuner the MPR would shoot 25 shot groups at 50 yards less than 1/2 MOA. With the tuner the groups tightened up to half that.

The grip is not quite as vertical as my A3-5's, A5's or Whiskey 3, but it is very good. I needed the stock pack to get a good sight picture prone. This rifle also has DIP 20 MOA rail, which you will need to get out to distance.

I am certainly not the best shot around, in fact far from it, but the Anschutz 64 MPR is a fantastic 22 LR repeater.

I did the ejector mod and now my 64 MPR ejects 98%+. Simple and only takes about 15-20 minutes. If you do it make your adjustments small ( 1 or 2 thousandths)and then check it. Too much removed and the ejector will need to be replaced.

25 rounds at 300 yards with a light gusty 5 mph wind from the 6 o'clock

25 rounds at 300 yards 3-4 mph wind from the 9 o'clock

25 rounds at 200 yards 2-3 mph wind from the 12 o'clock

 

[THibben]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

AquaticRobot

Can I ask which tuner and any specific set of weights that you use with it?

Cheers English

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: Anshutz 64 MPR or Kidd Supergrade?

English, PM sent.