Depends on what the goal is. If absolute best precision/accuracy... then the steel barrel will handle better. If weight and portability affects the use case, then carbon would seem the way to go.
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Any 22LR that compare with Vudoo?
- Thread starter Maxim0
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Any idea what kind of round count you can expect before needing a rebarrel? New to the precision .22 world but looks like a ton of fun.
I have a Rem40X with well over 50,000 rounds on it... and it's still shooting fantastic.
I've seen some claim that 10k rounds. I've seen others claim never.
Don't worry about it. Just shoot and if it ever needs done worry about it then.
My new CZ MTR 457 22LR, the 6" targets are @ 50 yds sighting it in, 100 yds and 200 yds respectively. I love it. Hopefully it will be less windy next time and I can tighten up the groups. I'm using a Vortex Hog Hunter scope and Eley Practice 100 ammo. I have not adjusted the trigger yet, but like the way it came so far, I'll put a guage on it and see what it will adjust to.
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There a video on YouTube from last year where a National Match level BR shooter put a barrel back on his rig with over 150,000 rxs and set a new world record. In the interview he said it just shoots better than anything else. I think it's fair to say once you establish how the rifle performs consistently, you don't change anything until groups change. High volume shooters may have to find ammo that the rifle likes a few times over its life. Barrell changes should be the last thing you worry about once established.
I don't own a Vudoo, but from what I hear and read, the Vudoo really shines at long range. The CZ and others can hang pretty well with a Vudoo out to maybe 200 yards, then the Vudoo really outperforms them.
Brand doesn’t determine performance at distance.
If it outperforms at distance, then it outperforms closer. The only things that determine performance at distance is velocity and BC variations.
I'm not saying the Vudoo doesn't perform better at closer ranges. I'm just saying it's by a smaller degree and not as noticeable. If the Vudoo does a better job at stabilizing the projectile, then why wouldn't it's performance be more noticeable at longer range? Like I said, I don't own one. Just what I've read and heard. I have a CZ and have shot against several Vudoo. I can hang with them pretty well out to 150-175 yards. After that, my groups open and there's seem to stay tight out to 350 or beyond.
Again, this is not something that is vudoo exclusive. If you get either a good factory barrel or a custom barrel on your CZ, your performance will be similar to the vudoo which has the equivalent to a custom barrel.
Also, you likely don’t have ammo matched to your CZ properly. Vudoo chamber is cut for lapua/sk ammo and most everyone shooting them utilizes this ammo. Properly matched ammo in a cz will perform very well.
I’d never recommend anything other than a vudoo for PRS stuff with the current line up of Rimfire options available. But making sure people know exactly why.
You are correct that a custom barrel would likely improve the performance of my CZ. I would still however have a mass produced action that I would probably have to have trued for maximum benefit. A user replaceable, drop in barrel doesn't equal a full custom barreled action that were fit to each other as Vudoo are.
It is also quite possible that I have yet to find the perfect load for my rifle. I have tried a lot of different ammo and have made significant gains in accuracy, but I'm sure there is still room for improvement.
It drives me nuts how 22LR are lot sensitive. Finally find an ammo your gun likes, then can't find anymore of that lot number. Can't afford to buy a case of everything you try. Even if you did, you'd still use up that case and be back where you started.
I can tell you I shoot a lot less rounds now that I have my Vudoo because things just work. As DThomas said the barrel chamber is cut for SK/Lapua, so tested some lots of Center-X found a good one, and it shoots consistently. I never need to keep testing lots, rezeroing, redoping, etc. The Kestrel custom curve works perfect for me out to 400 yards. At Nationals, I zero'd and dope'd out to 368 yards in less than 25 rounds.
Vudoo builds are generally also meatier, and as just like PRS, meatier/heavier rifles can mask bad shooting fundamentals. Poor shooting fundamentals on a 7lb CZ vs a 15lb Vudoo, even with equal barrel and ammo is going to show it at longer distances.
I'm happy for all you Vudoo owners that have gotten good results. I wasn't as fortunate. After seeing numerous posts and videos touting half minute 100 yard results, I ordered one. I took it to the Lapua test center in Marengo, Ohio in mid August. For those not familiar , they machine rest test on an indoor range to 100 meters , so NO human error or wind is in play. They shot 20 different lots, including 3 lots of Midas, and the balance Center-X . Most lots weren't worth considering after one 10 round group. A few didn't even make 10 rounds. My best lot of 4 , 10 round groups averaged .857 moa. Is that good shooting? Maybe. Is that great shooting? I think not. Vudoo was kind enough to let me return it for a refund, saying it shot sub minute and most customers would be happy with that. How many of you have actually had your Vudoos Lapua tested? I would like to see your results.
Very few barrels on any action are going to shoot under .5 10 shot groups at 100 yards even with machine tested ammo
Are you looking at C-C or E-E? So you took their mm, and subtracted 5.6mm and then checked?
Here's the results for my tests @ 100 meters that I'm happy with.
| Ammo | # Shots | E-E | C-C (inches) | MOA | DHH - Mean | MOA - Avg | DHH - Avg |
| SK+ Standard Plus | 10 | 40.52 | 1.374275591 | 1.200227262 | 10.46 | ||
| Pistol Match Special | 10 | 50.22 | 1.756165354 | 1.533751708 | 19.92 | ||
| Midas+ 11_26555702235 | 10 | 31.3 | 1.011283465 | 0.8832071177 | 9.1 | 1.160685703 | 11.33 |
| Midas+ 11_26555702235 | 10 | 47.44 | 1.646716535 | 1.438164289 | 13.56 | ||
| Midas+ 13_26555702546 | 10 | 27.6 | 0.8656141732 | 0.7559864527 | 10.16 | 0.8409148426 | 14.58 |
| Midas+ 13_26555702546 | 10 | 32.54 | 1.060102362 | 0.9258432325 | 19 | ||
| Center-X 3_23555701733 | 10 | 26.26 | 0.8128582677 | 0.7099119415 | 6.16 | 0.9279062703 | 11.55333333 |
| Center-X 3_23555701733 | 10 | 40.96 | 1.391598425 | 1.215356205 | 17.86 | ||
| Center-X 3_23555701733 | 10 | 30.58 | 0.9829370079 | 0.858450664 | 10.64 | ||
| Center-X 4_24555501282 | 10 | 36.38 | 1.211283465 | 1.057877652 | 10.35 | 0.8417171351 | 10.47 |
| Center-X 4_24555501282 | 10 | 28.02 | 0.8821496063 | 0.7704277173 | 9.67 | ||
| Center-X 4_24555501282 | 10 | 25.88 | 0.7978976378 | 0.6968460354 | 11.39 | ||
| Center-X 18_26555702382 | 10 | 28.56 | 0.9034094488 | 0.7889950576 | 11.74 | 0.7889950576 | 11.74 |
Most people aren’t truthful as to how any of their rifles shoot day in and day out.
For most people, it isn’t the rifle that’s the issue, day after day.
I took their 100 meter measurements which are outside to outside, subtracted .56 and multiplied by .923 to get yards and 100 yard moa.
Assume you meant 5.6 and not .56. But yeh the lot I purchased averaged at .84moa. 10 shot groups are generally larger.
My 6x5 of it is in the .6 MOA.
James, after you've spoken to everyone at Vudoo, and after reviewing your results and speaking to the guy that tested your rifle, it's clear you're not well versed enough to understand the results. You say you shoot Benchrest, but you have no Benchrest rifle and you say you have rifles that shoot better but none of those rifles have been to the test center. So, you really have no idea how they shoot. After going through various details with you, we gave you an option to keep your rifle or, we would buy it back from you, which we're in the process of doing.
Thanks,
MB
Wow... that means its shooting .25 CTC or .1's at 50yds. With that... you could basically win any benchrest level event in the nation. Heck of a thing. I wouldn't sell it if I were you. ... unless you sell it to me, that is.
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Ok , This is getting funny. Are you disputing the results that my unversed self sent you . you never mentioned them. . Never said I shot benchrest and never said I had rifles that shot BETTER than the V22. But that really isn't the point. The point being, I drank the .5 min Kool aid . I would like to know how so many testers get .5 min rifles . and would like to how many actual customers got them.
Thanks,
JS
Sir, plain and simple, when I asked about your shooting experience, you told me you shoot benchrest and you mentioned how the V-22 stacks up against your Remington and Kimber. Any Kool-Aid you drank wasn’t served by Vudoo and if you believed .5, I’ll reference your question above about being unversed. This is all I’ll say about it, we’re buying your rifle back and it won’t be in our hands long.
MB
Just curious who ever stated 1/2 moa rifles? I never considered that nor did I think that was what I was getting when I bought a Vudoo. Or are you talking about 50 yards. Yes 50 yards, I can consistently get 1/2 minute 5shot groups. My 6x5 with SK+ is .232" average. 10 shot groups are different animal, though I mean .4" averages with 10 shot groups is pretty damn good.
Oh, OK, So I'l take the 5 rounds in .5 moa category. You haven't seen the Truth about Guns Vid? hHow bout the 22 Plinkster vid. Theres a bunch more out there. I especially like the TAG vid where CCI sv shoots .5. How does your"s shoot , by the way?
Oh, so that wasn't you thanking the TAG guy for his report? You know, the one with the .5 CCI sv group?
Why are you here James? You had multiple people at Vudoo genuinely trying to help you and there are numerous people in this thread telling you the same thing we did. We gave you a couple options, to include buying back a perfectly good rifle, yet here you are. Now, you’re referencing videos where targets were shot at 50 yards and you’re expecting to see the same results at 100. You’ve worked harder trying to stir up crap all over the Internet than you have to actually understand reality and it’s clear you’re only here to continue an argument that ended the moment we offered to buy your rifle back.
MB
6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*
Hey guys welcome back to the "NEW OLD HIDE", its good to be home! So getting back to business I am starting the 6X5 thread over from scratch. Same rules: Rules are pretty simple. There must be exactly six groups of 5 shots, all on one target board. No more, no less. Every shot on the group...
www.snipershide.com
I probably shouldn't be replying at all, but I have no clue what kind of information / videos you are writing about. Again 5 shot groups and 10 shot groups are very different. And a single best group is different than 6+ groups in a row. Not sure what expectations you have of rimfire.
For curiosity sake, what’s the actual precision benchmark should I expect to have at 100yd with a Vudoo normally?
I know Vudoo is famous for their accuracy but I have always thought the main point of getting one was for the 700 footprint so that people can practice more economically by cloning it to their main set up. I am fairly new to this subject so feel free to correct anything I said as I am stilling learning the rope. From what i have read, you should be able get other rifles to the accuracy level of a Vudoo for less but you won’t have the same level of customer service and QC they offered. I think you can get a tikka or cz actions for cheap then trued it and have a good smith chambered a match barrel onto it. Again, if I’m wrong then I would love to be corrected. I’m here to learn after all.
I know Vudoo is famous for their accuracy but I have always thought the main point of getting one was for the 700 footprint so that people can practice more economically by cloning it to their main set up. I am fairly new to this subject so feel free to correct anything I said as I am stilling learning the rope. From what i have read, you should be able get other rifles to the accuracy level of a Vudoo for less but you won’t have the same level of customer service and QC they offered. I think you can get a tikka or cz actions for cheap then trued it and have a good smith chambered a match barrel onto it. Again, if I’m wrong then I would love to be corrected. I’m here to learn after all.
Wow... that means its shooting .25 CTC or .1's at 50yds. With that... you could basically win any benchrest level event in the nation. Heck of a thing. I wouldn't sell it if I were you. ... unless you sell it to me, that is.
It is amazing indeed, and let me say I have to have a really good day and be using R-50, Midas, or Center-X. Even with CCI standard velocity it is a sub moa, but just barely... I honestly think i just got really lucky and its not a Friday evening rifle.
ETA, all my 22 rimfire shooting is at 50m so I have no illusions to what happens with rimfire at 100+
please review the Truth about Guns and the 22 Plinkster reviews. They CLEARLY show half MOA at 100 YARDS. You gonna believe your own eyes or Mikey.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, but are you holding VGW accountable for not meeting your expectations that YOU conjured up in your own head based on some videos on YouTube that were not put out by VGW? That sir seems a bit off based if you ask me.
I have not read everything published by VGW about their rifles but I have read a good bit of it and I have not seen any claims to a specific accuracy guarantee. So what are you actually complaining about? Can’t be customer service because it seems to me that VGW went above and beyond by buying a rifle back that you were not happy with.
Also did you even personally shoot the rifle or just send it to be lot tested right away? If you did shoot it how was it doing for you? How many rounds did you shoot before taking it to be tested?
Again, James, the Kool-Aid you drank was not served by Vudoo and you’re pissed at us for it. Vudoo never told you what it is that’s so lodged in your gullet, so again, why are you here? What exactly do you want? You’ve already answered the email where you were given the incredibly simple options to choose from and you made your choice.
MB
About 3K before I took it to the test center. CX and std + about 1 to 1.5 moa. How well does yours shoot, by the way?
Anyone who's read much about the machine rest testing of 22RF rifles should know that quite often, an assembled rifle will shoot better off bipod & bag or good stable front rest & bunny ear rear bag or a good one piece rest than it will when the bbl'd action is held in a machine rest - assuming the shooter has the skills to make the most of the rifle's accuracy potential. Lapua's Test Center testing is primarily to compare various lots of their own ammo in a given bbl'd action, and report the results to the owner. The possibility that a barreled action may not shoot as well off good rests when assembled as a complete rifle as it did as a bbl'd action in the machine rest exists - but I've never read of anyone who experienced that with respect to the result from either of the Lapua test centers. Lapua tests with the machine rests because of the sheer volume of the rifles customers bring or send in to be tested. Operator skill & fatigue from testing several rifles each day off rests would undoubtedly have various effects on the results, so machine rest testing is currently the best way to get uniform results. If one of the testers at Lapua isn't feeling particularly well-rested, or for whatever reason, isn't having one of his best days, the machine rest should eliminate the effects of such physiological deficiencies on that particular day.
That said, when I called Daniel Cliff at the Mesa Center after receiving his reports on how my Vudoo (which I'd barreled & chambered with a Krieger blank) shot, the results of two or three of the lots of Center-X were very close at 50M, but I felt one was a little better at 100M than the other two, and so bought two cases of it. It's never let me down in that rifle, nor in either of the other two V-22s I own - and the one with a Bartlein that VGW fitted & chambered with Mike's Ravage reamer shoots this lot of Center-X a tad bit better - consistently - than either of the rifles with barrels that I chambered with my EPS reamer. I have no regrets concerning my decisions to purchase these three rifles (with a V-22S action order pending) or those two cases of Center-X. If I'd have been a bit more flush with ready cash, I'd have bought three cases instead of two...
That said, when I called Daniel Cliff at the Mesa Center after receiving his reports on how my Vudoo (which I'd barreled & chambered with a Krieger blank) shot, the results of two or three of the lots of Center-X were very close at 50M, but I felt one was a little better at 100M than the other two, and so bought two cases of it. It's never let me down in that rifle, nor in either of the other two V-22s I own - and the one with a Bartlein that VGW fitted & chambered with Mike's Ravage reamer shoots this lot of Center-X a tad bit better - consistently - than either of the rifles with barrels that I chambered with my EPS reamer. I have no regrets concerning my decisions to purchase these three rifles (with a V-22S action order pending) or those two cases of Center-X. If I'd have been a bit more flush with ready cash, I'd have bought three cases instead of two...
This is how much I love / confident that I'll be keeping this for a long time.
I told the test center to hold 2 more cases so when I got the budget I could order them and did it a month later.
@shopgun
Take your issues to PM’s. You’re stirring up shit about a company who is refunding your money for an accuracy issue you’ve made up. Do not continue this publicly.
Take your issues to PM’s. You’re stirring up shit about a company who is refunding your money for an accuracy issue you’ve made up. Do not continue this publicly.
Well the 3 that I have owned have all shot excellent! Here is an example of 2 separate days 50 consecutive rounds each I shot at 100 yards outside off the ground with a Harris bipod and a TAB rear bag, no wind flags were used, and a random lot of Center X (actually a different lot for the 2 days).
You do realize that all of this ”comparing your accuracy to someone on YouTube“ is no different than ordering some supplements from say Phil Heath Labs taking them a few months and then bashing them on a public forum because you are not as strong or big a Phil. Maybe in your mind it all makes sense but to those who have a clue you look like a buffoon. This is not to throw a personal dig at you rather just mentioning it in case you don’t see it...
If you still have the rifle in question and you are reasonably close to Maine you have an open invitation for us to meet up and I am happy to go over your rifle setup, shoot it with several different lots of Center X (and other ammo) and try to see if we can get it preforming closer to your expectations. Not saying I am some rimfire expert or anything of the sort, but I have been around the block a time or two. Sincerely offering.
I’m not a Vudoo owner but it looks like the company went out of their way to make him happy. .8 range 10 shot group average with the one type of ammo tried is very good in my opinion.
