Hello all, I haven't been around here for awhile because I haven't had enough money to play with my guns and drag race lol. I was recently approached by a friend of a friend who is a manager for a contracting company and is trying to recruit me. I'm a former Marine Scout Sniper with 10 years of full time law enforcement experience and currently a SWAT operator. I looked into contacting years ago and decided against it because I met a guy that worked for Blackwater and he talked me out of it. I don't hate my job but would like a change just don't want to leave my current job that is very stable and work for a company that might fold up in a year or two. Any companies to stay away from? I'm thinking about doing one overseas contract then staying CONUS to train. I'm not going to post details for obvious reasons and if anyone doesn't want their comments to be public please PM me. Thanks
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- Thread starter jimmy8541
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Got family?
Personally, got a good secure job, stick with it.
Besides, DOD just did a huge change in the way contracts are issued, and sooner or later it will affect even those contractors.
Used to be a contractor (ie Lockheed Martin) could bill the gov and give the employee say $35/hr with a cost overrun called "Best-value" for years experience etc.
Now the gov went back to lowest bidder, if the job was bid at $22/hr that's what the gov pays, no more of hte $13/Best-value difference.
I'm speaking from experience, I just took a 30% pay cut from a DOD contractor. My job was p osted as requiring a 4 year bachelors, CISSP, and 13 years experience - and they are offering $18/hr for these jobs.
Stay where you are, you may change someone's life there. It's going to catch up to all contractors, regardless of job function, and this POTUS especially hates the contract work you are speaking of.
Personally, got a good secure job, stick with it.
Besides, DOD just did a huge change in the way contracts are issued, and sooner or later it will affect even those contractors.
Used to be a contractor (ie Lockheed Martin) could bill the gov and give the employee say $35/hr with a cost overrun called "Best-value" for years experience etc.
Now the gov went back to lowest bidder, if the job was bid at $22/hr that's what the gov pays, no more of hte $13/Best-value difference.
I'm speaking from experience, I just took a 30% pay cut from a DOD contractor. My job was p osted as requiring a 4 year bachelors, CISSP, and 13 years experience - and they are offering $18/hr for these jobs.
Stay where you are, you may change someone's life there. It's going to catch up to all contractors, regardless of job function, and this POTUS especially hates the contract work you are speaking of.
You can hit me up with your questions if you like, I've been doing it for over seven years. S/F
ETA: I will say this though, I do agree with Arctic on keeping what you have if it's good already. Unless you have a serious "in" with a company, the vetting can be arduous and I've seen many false promises and outright lies on training and deployment dates. Also, these things are dicey and can disappear at the drop of a hat. I have no idea if I'll have a job in three months, and have been that way for the last year and a half. That's the way the business rolls... I prefer companies that are dry as alcohol and combat zones don't mix well, and a short google search will tell you that. If you're married, I hope it's VERY strong or you want to end it anyhow, because this life is absolutely brutal on families. Finally, ask around or find someone currently in country on the project to get the real skinny on what it's really like as many recruiters have no clue at all what they're talking about.
ETA: I will say this though, I do agree with Arctic on keeping what you have if it's good already. Unless you have a serious "in" with a company, the vetting can be arduous and I've seen many false promises and outright lies on training and deployment dates. Also, these things are dicey and can disappear at the drop of a hat. I have no idea if I'll have a job in three months, and have been that way for the last year and a half. That's the way the business rolls... I prefer companies that are dry as alcohol and combat zones don't mix well, and a short google search will tell you that. If you're married, I hope it's VERY strong or you want to end it anyhow, because this life is absolutely brutal on families. Finally, ask around or find someone currently in country on the project to get the real skinny on what it's really like as many recruiters have no clue at all what they're talking about.
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I'm right down the road from Redmanss with a different company and at this stage of the game there is NO WAY I'd leave a stable job to come to this AO.
Currently the military has NO idea what is closing when, and I could get the call tomorrow that I need to pack up my operation and be out of the country by "x" date, and I'm on a VERY large (security) contract with effectively no competitors. There are very few "mom 'n pop" contracts running right now. The work is with the big operations except for a select few very specialized areas.
If you were considering this years ago my answer may be different, but at this stage of the game it's a shit-show and no way would I leave a good job for it.
Feel free to PM me if I can help.
Currently the military has NO idea what is closing when, and I could get the call tomorrow that I need to pack up my operation and be out of the country by "x" date, and I'm on a VERY large (security) contract with effectively no competitors. There are very few "mom 'n pop" contracts running right now. The work is with the big operations except for a select few very specialized areas.
If you were considering this years ago my answer may be different, but at this stage of the game it's a shit-show and no way would I leave a good job for it.
Feel free to PM me if I can help.
I was in 10 years ago, when it was a good time to be in. i'll echo what they all have said, if you have a a family and a good thing going at home then I would forget about it.
Awww come on brother, I love this place. I think I'm going to stay and establish citizenship like some of the Soviet deserters years ago.
With all the grape rows in the south I'm looking at opening a winery: "Infidel Vineyards". Early offerings will be Pressure Plate Merlot and DFC Chardonnay. In the next year or two I'm looking at Big Bloody Coup Zinfandel. In keeping with the local tradition, I'll have pot and opium planted in the grape rows for some tasty cross-pollination and I'm hoping to use profits to establish the first combination Pork BBQ Restaurant/Titty Bar in the country, I"m calling it "Burka King".
This is the only place I've ever seen where the society would be greatly improved by pornography.
To the OP, in all seriousness: Without knowing details it's tough. I gave an answer based on SW Asia, but there's work elsewhere. Unlike Redmanss, I'm not quite ready to to give this up so I may chase the work to the next horrible place. He's been over here a few years longer than me and has some good things back home worth returning for. Other than a bar I invested in, I don't have much in the States to draw me back, so rather than go home and drink my profits at the bar I'll probably try to find the next war. I already walked away from a pension, retirement, health insurance, etc so it's easy for me to keep on the road. Throwing stability out the window in your middle age isn't to be taken lightly. For me, so far, it was a good choice but that could change tomorrow.
I am considering contracting as well. Since I am still relatively young (28), unmarried (but in a great/understanding/stable relationship), and have plenty of time to get the ball rolling; planning and execution is currently underway. My plan is for a short stint of no more than 5-6 years in the contracting world. My goal is to save money for a house, build a sizable savings, and finish my education online. Once my time is done and I have fulfilled my goals I would then reintegrate and follow my passion of being a small business owner and write in my spare time.
This is all but a dream I would like to see happen. I am currently a K9 handler and would like to take my skills elsewhere... do any of you have any insight besides what has been stated already? From what it sounds like its a giant roll of the dice sometimes. My biggest question is what are some examples of contracts like... is it a year term and can cancel any time? I understand the dynamics of the job just not the administrative stuff behind it. I would hate to get set for a year overseas just to get my contract pulled at 3 months and let go.
Your tutelage is much appreciated.
Corey
This is all but a dream I would like to see happen. I am currently a K9 handler and would like to take my skills elsewhere... do any of you have any insight besides what has been stated already? From what it sounds like its a giant roll of the dice sometimes. My biggest question is what are some examples of contracts like... is it a year term and can cancel any time? I understand the dynamics of the job just not the administrative stuff behind it. I would hate to get set for a year overseas just to get my contract pulled at 3 months and let go.
Your tutelage is much appreciated.
Corey
Any contactors in here?
That said, living by the seat of your pants is a lot of fun once you get used to it. But you have to get used to it first. Because the rest of the shit gets old real quick. And, although Operator as Fuck, it's boring as hell.
The harsh reality is that (with a few exceptions, like Tier 1 but NOT always Tiers 2 and 3) if you really want to see things and do things the military isn't where it's at and neither are almost all of the post-military so-called 'contracting' jobs.
It takes some people time to realize that you don't need the protection of an institution or an employer in order to travel abroad. There's lots of stuff to do on your own, and plenty of trouble to get into.
My advice: Stay in school; and just say 'No' to drugs.
First of all, it's not the big money that people think it is. That is, unless you are working directly for a wealthy Sheik, but those jobs are for tenured professionals and even then they are few and far between.
That said, living by the seat of your pants is a lot of fun once you get used to it. But you have to get used to it first. Because the rest of the shit gets old real quick. And, although Operator as Fuck, it's boring as hell.
The harsh reality is that (with a few exceptions, like Tier 1 but NOT always Tiers 2 and 3) if you really want to see things and do things the military isn't where it's at and neither are almost all of the post-military so-called 'contracting' jobs.
It takes some people time to realize that you don't need the protection of an institution or an employer in order to travel abroad. There's lots of stuff to do on your own, and plenty of trouble to get into.
My advice: Stay in school; and just say 'No' to drugs.
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Not "in" school. Used to the bullshit. Currently on my third deployment. Used to not getting a real pay day. I live by the seat of my pants every day... yknow... its not science fiction we do it every day (lol)!
I just want to get out and experience K9 from a different perspective, make a little money, accomplish some new goals, and turn to a new chapter in my life.
I just want to get out and experience K9 from a different perspective, make a little money, accomplish some new goals, and turn to a new chapter in my life.
Any contactors in here?
Don't get me wrong: It suits some people very well. But you have to be able to not sweat the small stuff and not care too much about planning for a stable future. Therefore it favors the young.
But, like the military, it also eats it's young. Personal and professional success is almost wholly dependent on your personality...That is, if you don't know someone well-placed in the company (which, BTW, I would rate very high on one's list of must-haves). Because vitamin 'P' (protektsia) is the fuel on which everything runs.
Having almost said too much already, following closely in second place is the professional ability to keep your mouth shut about anything that involves specifics. I am going to say only two words about that: Travis Haley (with all that saying that implies to everyone).
I suppose I could have travelled the world to see the fantastic mosaics inside the lobbies of Hilton Hotels in a dozen countries on four continents, but I'm still not sure that I could ever have handled that level of adventure and excitement.??
In sum: There probably comes a time in everyone's life when one has to settle for being somebody's Bitch instead of remaining everybody's Bitch. The only question you have to answer is whether that time for you is now.
Me, I settled down. And it stuck. With some people it never does. But now I recommend it.
Don't get me wrong: It suits some people very well. But you have to be able to not sweat the small stuff and not care too much about planning for a stable future. Therefore it favors the young.
But, like the military, it also eats it's young. Personal and professional success is almost wholly dependent on your personality...That is, if you don't know someone well-placed in the company (which, BTW, I would rate very high on one's list of must-haves). Because vitamin 'P' (protektsia) is the fuel on which everything runs.
Having almost said too much already, following closely in second place is the professional ability to keep your mouth shut about anything that involves specifics. I am going to say only two words about that: Travis Haley (with all that saying that implies to everyone).
I suppose I could have travelled the world to see the fantastic mosaics inside the lobbies of Hilton Hotels in a dozen countries on four continents, but I'm still not sure that I could ever have handled that level of adventure and excitement.??
In sum: There probably comes a time in everyone's life when one has to settle for being somebody's Bitch instead of remaining everybody's Bitch. The only question you have to answer is whether that time for you is now.
Me, I settled down. And it stuck. With some people it never does. But now I recommend it.
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Good advice.
It sounds like this isnt a decision for the fool hearted... one who sees a world through only their eyes. It sounds like an epic case of "shut up and color" and "be seen and not heard" with its high and low moments. Definitely do-able but from what you describe; the person really has to think "is it worth it".
To me... yes. There are pros and cons to every situation but I am the person who can turn 'cons' into 'pros' and make positive of every negative. You clearly have a great understanding of the world of contracting and I would like to ask if I may PM you some stuff so you can school me personally. Is that possible?
To be honest... my decision to take my skillset and explore contracting is equal to as much curiosity as it is personal development. I've explored, ive accomplished, and I've succeeded. Now can I do it elsewhere, under different circumstances, and to what degree can I accomplish these things? We will see.
It sounds like this isnt a decision for the fool hearted... one who sees a world through only their eyes. It sounds like an epic case of "shut up and color" and "be seen and not heard" with its high and low moments. Definitely do-able but from what you describe; the person really has to think "is it worth it".
To me... yes. There are pros and cons to every situation but I am the person who can turn 'cons' into 'pros' and make positive of every negative. You clearly have a great understanding of the world of contracting and I would like to ask if I may PM you some stuff so you can school me personally. Is that possible?
To be honest... my decision to take my skillset and explore contracting is equal to as much curiosity as it is personal development. I've explored, ive accomplished, and I've succeeded. Now can I do it elsewhere, under different circumstances, and to what degree can I accomplish these things? We will see.
As has been mentioned, a lot, you're late to the party and they're sweeping up, turning on the lights, and throwing people out the door.
Without going into a lot of specifics, the area you're wanting to get into is boring as hell. The fun K9 jobs for civilians are basically over. I was one of the last guys to get to do it, and back when we were doing REALLY fun shit the pay was laughable for the risks we took. It was for the love of the game. The pay on K9 contracts is shit compared to some other specialties, and even most of those don't pay much anymore. The gigs now are static posts and ECPs with an odd PSD contract here and there, but again, you'll be making less money than the shooters in most cases. The trend now, aside from a select few DoS gigs, is to hire/train TCNs or Local Nationals as dog handlers.
If you're in the Military, stay there. You don't have be very good at your job to keep getting a paycheck. You have guaranteed pay, medical, housing, food, retirement, etc and you can always claim a bullshit disability to stay on the government tit if they RIF you. You have a full support system while you're deployed instead of having to use Amazon or Walmart.com as your supply system, and that's when you're lucky enough to be someplace with mail. As a contractor no one gives a shit about you, the nature of your job puts you in the "expendable" category. You still have to function within the idiocy of today's military but receive none of the benefits. God help you if you're on a DoS gig because then you have to deal with the idiocy that only the DoS can come up with.
Your "great/understanding/stable relationship" is fantastic until they don't see you but for a few weeks a year and you're too busy handling all the bullshit that's piled up for the past 330 days while you're hiding from the tax man. Plus that, being away from everything puts it into its proper perspective: very few things become more important when you've gone without them for years. Typically you figure out that most of the things, and people, that were important before really weren't.
All that said, it was one of the best decisions of my life and allowed me the financial means to see some cool places and do some amazing things with some great people. Unfortunately it's coming to an end, QUICKLY.
Since I'm in the industry you want to get into, feel free to hit me up via PM and I can tell you where the remaining contracts for Americans are. I don't vouch for people any more because so many of them have bitch fits and take their football and go home instead of manning the fuck up and finishing the contract they signed on for, but I can give you a couple of places to contact.
Thank you. I just sent you a PM. Also, thanks for not BS'ing me.
I know it varies but what are the average length of contracts overseas? I was doing some research how some do a rotation of 70-120 days, home for 30 days, and then back overseas. Is this the norm?
I know it varies but what are the average length of contracts overseas? I was doing some research how some do a rotation of 70-120 days, home for 30 days, and then back overseas. Is this the norm?
Everyone is different. The "norm" used to be a year at a time for most DoD contracts. Every company sets up their own leave system, ranging from 90 ON 30 OFF, to a few weeks each year. Some pay you on vaca, others don't.
I'll go into a bit more specifics in your PM, but wanted to at least give a broad answer to it since a couple of guys have asked. Keep in mind that no matter what your contract says, the needs of the contract come first. In some cases that has meant guys going 18 months, 7 days a week, without a leave.
This right here is why I took a 30% pay cut and why *anyone* should be leery of contracting with DOD.
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118970
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=118970
Yeah, but not as a contractor. [MENTION=91385]Darkside-Six[/MENTION] worked a domestic gig back in 2005 and you'd have thought he was rounding up the Jews for the ovens the way he got lambasted around here.
From my stuck-in-the-office mil perspective, maybe a little different than some of you killer-operator type, I have not seen the expected cuts yet. While there has been plenty of lets-decrease-spending talk coming from the highest levels, nobody I know has seen the axe. In fact, I keep hearing about contracts being extended. I am not suggesting that any contractor is safe from cuts, I am saying that across every office that I observe, CONUS or OCONUS, folks have been way more stable than anyone expected. No matter what field you work in, or where you work, remember the basics - be courteous, offer to help, and be on-time. Enough folks either have not learned or maybe forget these basic rules about working with others and staying employed.
I guess it depends on the contract. When the contract involves providing security on FOBs, and most of the FOBs are closing in the next few months, then that means the work is drying up. Yes, KAF and BAF will be around, and some of the projects may shift over to DoS control, but that's a whole new thing.
The "on the ground" reality is that companies are packing up huge numbers of employees and sending them home due to contract reductions.
In the context of this thread, now is not the time to be looking to START security contracting.
Any contactors in here?
Security on FOBs: Waiting to be vaporized because of obvious errors made by analysts who think they are 'operational' because they get to travel to a foreign country.... No thanks.
Security on FOBs: Waiting to be vaporized because of obvious errors made by analysts who think they are 'operational' because they get to travel to a foreign country.... No thanks.
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I'm not understanding your context of "vaporized". Do you mean cut back or eliminated due to underestimation of threats, or do you mean by attack?
Security Contractor in Iraq from 2004 to 2012. Some of the bigger names and contracts. PSS and DDM.
If you're thinking about starting contracting now, you're very late in the game. It's the 2 minute warning for contracts, I wouldn't leave a stable stateside job. If you're just starting, none of the higher speed, smaller contracts will be available....you'll have to start with WPS or static gigs (even worse). In Iraq, pay is dropping as are the numbers. Ridiculousness has taken over....as in must be in business attire to leave your room during business hours, all the little fuck-fuck games that come when the politicians think hostilities have ended and they want to paint the picture of peace and happiness. It was a great gig in it's heyday, but those days are long gone.
I have some buddies who jumped to Afghan, but that place is catching up to Iraq. It's all winding down.
Now if the US military were to commence hostilities in some place like Iran, North Korea or Syria.....it would start another boom for contractors. I just don't see that happening.
If you're thinking about starting contracting now, you're very late in the game. It's the 2 minute warning for contracts, I wouldn't leave a stable stateside job. If you're just starting, none of the higher speed, smaller contracts will be available....you'll have to start with WPS or static gigs (even worse). In Iraq, pay is dropping as are the numbers. Ridiculousness has taken over....as in must be in business attire to leave your room during business hours, all the little fuck-fuck games that come when the politicians think hostilities have ended and they want to paint the picture of peace and happiness. It was a great gig in it's heyday, but those days are long gone.
I have some buddies who jumped to Afghan, but that place is catching up to Iraq. It's all winding down.
Now if the US military were to commence hostilities in some place like Iran, North Korea or Syria.....it would start another boom for contractors. I just don't see that happening.
Thanks for all of the reply's. This whole thing has turned out to be Bullshit! I meet this dude at a wedding of one the guys that I served with. He tells me that I could work for his company that trains DOD employees stateside. Sent him my resume and he tried to get me to doctor it by adding factitious college degrees that I dont have and when I refused he stopped communicating... What a waste of time! I told him that I was ok with who I am, what I have done and if that wasn't enough for me to be considered qualified for the position than I'm ok with that.
Darkside-Six got roasted because he defended BW helping NOPD and state police confiscate civilian guns.
