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Sidearms & Scatterguns Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
- Thread starter hula
- Start date
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
The current models are some of the best 1911s you will find in that price range when you look at the list of features that come standard. How many 1911s do you see with checkered frontstraps that cost $800?
THey are starting to use more MIM parts though than they used to, but still less than Springfield or Kimber.
The current models are some of the best 1911s you will find in that price range when you look at the list of features that come standard. How many 1911s do you see with checkered frontstraps that cost $800?
THey are starting to use more MIM parts though than they used to, but still less than Springfield or Kimber.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have been impressed with how they feel and some of the features, albeit sometimes subtle, they incorporate into their 1911's.
A co-worker recently purchased the Scorpion FDE model. I shot it, and it it shoots quite nicely. The plunger tube containing spring and detents for safety/slide-stop worked loose. He called Sig, they were according to my friend, "very apologetic" on the phone and wanted to rectify the situation post-haste.
Another co-worker purchased a 3" Sig 1911 for a CCW firearm. Fit & finish about the same as the Scorpion above, he has had no issues. About my only "complaint" on this firearm is the trigger has more take-up than a 1911 should. It almost feels like a mushy 2-stage trigger. But that is being kind of picky on my part!
I like that Sig has tapered the bottom of the slide, kind of a melting treatment of sorts. As poster above said, the checkering of the front strap is awesome IMHO! I like that many of their safety switches are extended but not wide. less chance to inadvertently move the lever, but still more than tactile enough to use under stress. The corners on slide seem to be just rounded so no sharp edges.
They have firing-pin safety, so to some that is a detractor from the platform as well as the external extractor. both of my co-workers have purchased these guns recently, so I'll be watching with great interest to see how they pan out for durability and reliability.
Would I buy one? Yeah, I think if I bought one I'd likely be satisfied. I've owned plenty of Kimbers, Springfields and Colts and have a Nighthawk now and another on order. For someone on a budget, I think Sig makes a decent 1911.
Best of luck!
-G45
I have been impressed with how they feel and some of the features, albeit sometimes subtle, they incorporate into their 1911's.
A co-worker recently purchased the Scorpion FDE model. I shot it, and it it shoots quite nicely. The plunger tube containing spring and detents for safety/slide-stop worked loose. He called Sig, they were according to my friend, "very apologetic" on the phone and wanted to rectify the situation post-haste.
Another co-worker purchased a 3" Sig 1911 for a CCW firearm. Fit & finish about the same as the Scorpion above, he has had no issues. About my only "complaint" on this firearm is the trigger has more take-up than a 1911 should. It almost feels like a mushy 2-stage trigger. But that is being kind of picky on my part!
I like that Sig has tapered the bottom of the slide, kind of a melting treatment of sorts. As poster above said, the checkering of the front strap is awesome IMHO! I like that many of their safety switches are extended but not wide. less chance to inadvertently move the lever, but still more than tactile enough to use under stress. The corners on slide seem to be just rounded so no sharp edges.
They have firing-pin safety, so to some that is a detractor from the platform as well as the external extractor. both of my co-workers have purchased these guns recently, so I'll be watching with great interest to see how they pan out for durability and reliability.
Would I buy one? Yeah, I think if I bought one I'd likely be satisfied. I've owned plenty of Kimbers, Springfields and Colts and have a Nighthawk now and another on order. For someone on a budget, I think Sig makes a decent 1911.
Best of luck!
-G45
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I'm also not a 1911 afficionado, but I know my way around guns and machining, plus, a friend of mine IS a 1911 afficionado.
He was damn impressed with my (older) Sig 1911. Mine is a GSR "Revolution" model, which has the manhole cover on the side of the slide, not the half-moon on the back of the slide.
The fit, finish and features of these is incredible at the price point. For less than $1000 you get a pistol with checkered frontstrap and mainspring housing, impeccable barrel bushing fit, perfect slide/framerail fit, Novaks nightsites, quality Novaks 8rnd magazines, and usually a snazzy set of grips.
At this point, I've got ~1000 rounds through mine, and it has run 100%, and that was all reloads... I did buy it used, however (for $700 by the way), and it was certainly "used". No idea on round count because I bought it from a gun store.
The only downside I see to mine, is it's way too nice to be one of my guns. I shoot my guns a lot, and don't like cleaning/maintaining. My standard operating procedure for my Glocks is to shoot them, then toss them in an ammo can to take home. I am compelled to actually clean/lubricate Sig 1911, and just generally treat it nicely. Great gun, and I really have my eye on one of their 3" models, even though I have zero need for one.
One drawback to these things is resale value. They have NOT caught on well, and don't seem to move well. On local message forums, I've seen a few of these just sit and sit and sit in the classifieds without moving, even though they were priced well. In fact, that is how I got mine. I saw it sitting at Cabelas over the course of about 6 months. When I asked for their bottom line and they came back at $700, plus an additional 3 magazines, I couldn't pass it up. In my opinion, if you're not SURE you want one to keep, be careful and buy them right. Unless they catch on more, and get popular, you'll likely take a loss on resale.
I'm also not a 1911 afficionado, but I know my way around guns and machining, plus, a friend of mine IS a 1911 afficionado.
He was damn impressed with my (older) Sig 1911. Mine is a GSR "Revolution" model, which has the manhole cover on the side of the slide, not the half-moon on the back of the slide.
The fit, finish and features of these is incredible at the price point. For less than $1000 you get a pistol with checkered frontstrap and mainspring housing, impeccable barrel bushing fit, perfect slide/framerail fit, Novaks nightsites, quality Novaks 8rnd magazines, and usually a snazzy set of grips.
At this point, I've got ~1000 rounds through mine, and it has run 100%, and that was all reloads... I did buy it used, however (for $700 by the way), and it was certainly "used". No idea on round count because I bought it from a gun store.
The only downside I see to mine, is it's way too nice to be one of my guns. I shoot my guns a lot, and don't like cleaning/maintaining. My standard operating procedure for my Glocks is to shoot them, then toss them in an ammo can to take home. I am compelled to actually clean/lubricate Sig 1911, and just generally treat it nicely. Great gun, and I really have my eye on one of their 3" models, even though I have zero need for one.
One drawback to these things is resale value. They have NOT caught on well, and don't seem to move well. On local message forums, I've seen a few of these just sit and sit and sit in the classifieds without moving, even though they were priced well. In fact, that is how I got mine. I saw it sitting at Cabelas over the course of about 6 months. When I asked for their bottom line and they came back at $700, plus an additional 3 magazines, I couldn't pass it up. In my opinion, if you're not SURE you want one to keep, be careful and buy them right. Unless they catch on more, and get popular, you'll likely take a loss on resale.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I want a tac-ops and a compact sooooo bad....
A buddy has the FDE one, and I like it quite a bit..
I want a tac-ops and a compact sooooo bad....
A buddy has the FDE one, and I like it quite a bit..
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have a Nitron that has been a sweet gun, no failures out of tho box with hardball AND Speer Gold Dots, without any break in time, no issues through 500 rounds. I love this gun, it is very well made and well fit. I am not concerned with it having a firing pin safety or external extractor, which is an issue with purists along with the non-typical slide contour.
I have contemplated buying another one of their compacts.
I have a Nitron that has been a sweet gun, no failures out of tho box with hardball AND Speer Gold Dots, without any break in time, no issues through 500 rounds. I love this gun, it is very well made and well fit. I am not concerned with it having a firing pin safety or external extractor, which is an issue with purists along with the non-typical slide contour.
I have contemplated buying another one of their compacts.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have the full size Scorpion. I've been a big Sig fan for a few years and this was my first 1911. I've only ran maybe 100rds through and it hasn't hiccuped yet. The flat trigger is a little strange at first. My next 1911 will be a Kimber Super Carry Pro though.
I have the full size Scorpion. I've been a big Sig fan for a few years and this was my first 1911. I've only ran maybe 100rds through and it hasn't hiccuped yet. The flat trigger is a little strange at first. My next 1911 will be a Kimber Super Carry Pro though.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
Interesting. Sounds like reliabilty is good for a 1911 esque platform. I may give one a run for a while.
Interesting. Sounds like reliabilty is good for a 1911 esque platform. I may give one a run for a while.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
Sig can't make their P series gun (far more modern) run right now so how do you expect them to produce a working version of one of the most mechanically complex pistols, notable for reliability concerns out of the box?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/...rama-continues/
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm
Sig is loosing contract after contract because their guns won't perform, meanwhile everything they've introduced has been a new finish/look on an old model, or has had mechanical problems/ recalls http://www.sigsauer.com/customerservice/p238upgrade.aspx.
Look at their new product page: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogNewProduct.aspx
Which of those is being carried into harms way right now by any agency/ large department? They're making guns for collectors right now, not for shooters.
Sig can't make their P series gun (far more modern) run right now so how do you expect them to produce a working version of one of the most mechanically complex pistols, notable for reliability concerns out of the box?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/...rama-continues/
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm
Sig is loosing contract after contract because their guns won't perform, meanwhile everything they've introduced has been a new finish/look on an old model, or has had mechanical problems/ recalls http://www.sigsauer.com/customerservice/p238upgrade.aspx.
Look at their new product page: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogNewProduct.aspx
Which of those is being carried into harms way right now by any agency/ large department? They're making guns for collectors right now, not for shooters.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have the Tac Ops Carry threaded 1911. Only have 150 rounds thru it with 50 of that suppressed. Has worked with no problems. Definitely not enough rounds to make a solid assessment but a good start. Nice feel and good trigger. Holsters are a problem to find. Still a nice pistol.
I have the Tac Ops Carry threaded 1911. Only have 150 rounds thru it with 50 of that suppressed. Has worked with no problems. Definitely not enough rounds to make a solid assessment but a good start. Nice feel and good trigger. Holsters are a problem to find. Still a nice pistol.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sig can't make their P series gun (far more modern) run right now so how do you expect them to produce a working version of one of the most mechanically complex pistols, notable for reliability concerns out of the box?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/...rama-continues/
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm
Sig is loosing contract after contract because their guns won't perform, meanwhile everything they've introduced has been a new finish/look on an old model, or has had mechanical problems/ recalls http://www.sigsauer.com/customerservice/p238upgrade.aspx.
Look at their new product page: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogNewProduct.aspx
Which of those is being carried into harms way right now by any agency/ large department? They're making guns for collectors right now, not for shooters. </div></div>
Lotta Sig hate there...
Looks like mostly directed at the erector-set P250 which was (is?) a dumb idea IMHO. As I said in another thread the Sig traditional models (read that as metal frame) coming out of Exeter today are pretty nice in my experience. If you look directly below the end of the article in the first link there is a link to an article about the SEALS new MK25 (Sig P226). I really don’t think they’d settle for an inferior weapon.
As for the Sig 1911: after allot of research and shopping, including posting a similar question here, I picked up a Sig 1911 Nitron Rail. I’m extremely happy with the purchase. The fit and finish is better than anything else I looked at in the price range which included Kimbers and a Springfield Range Officer, which would have been my second choice after the Sig. Very nice trigger for factory trigger as well. I realize the purists will deride the external <span style="text-decoration: line-through">safety</span> extractor but I consider that a non-issue as long as it does its job (and it does). Based on my research and shopping I don’t think there is a better value in a <$1,000.00 1911 currently.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sig can't make their P series gun (far more modern) run right now so how do you expect them to produce a working version of one of the most mechanically complex pistols, notable for reliability concerns out of the box?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/...rama-continues/
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm
Sig is loosing contract after contract because their guns won't perform, meanwhile everything they've introduced has been a new finish/look on an old model, or has had mechanical problems/ recalls http://www.sigsauer.com/customerservice/p238upgrade.aspx.
Look at their new product page: http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogNewProduct.aspx
Which of those is being carried into harms way right now by any agency/ large department? They're making guns for collectors right now, not for shooters. </div></div>
Lotta Sig hate there...
Looks like mostly directed at the erector-set P250 which was (is?) a dumb idea IMHO. As I said in another thread the Sig traditional models (read that as metal frame) coming out of Exeter today are pretty nice in my experience. If you look directly below the end of the article in the first link there is a link to an article about the SEALS new MK25 (Sig P226). I really don’t think they’d settle for an inferior weapon.
As for the Sig 1911: after allot of research and shopping, including posting a similar question here, I picked up a Sig 1911 Nitron Rail. I’m extremely happy with the purchase. The fit and finish is better than anything else I looked at in the price range which included Kimbers and a Springfield Range Officer, which would have been my second choice after the Sig. Very nice trigger for factory trigger as well. I realize the purists will deride the external <span style="text-decoration: line-through">safety</span> extractor but I consider that a non-issue as long as it does its job (and it does). Based on my research and shopping I don’t think there is a better value in a <$1,000.00 1911 currently.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
Mine has been flawless up to this point. Fit and finish has been very good. It has chewed up everything I've fed it, which includes hard ball, truncated, and HP's, all in different weights. I have ran the factory mags and some cheap ass aftermarket 7rd GI type mags, which all fed flawlessly. I like the controls and the feel of the rear safety. I like the factory grips, although I have a set of VZ's that will be installed shortly (all about the looks there). I'm running a Railed Tac Pac, which is an entry level pistol, but I'd would speculate that if this is entry then everything above should run as good or better! Oh and yeah there is alot of Sig haters out there, but this is my first Sig and I'd say that you shouldn't get hurt if you pick one up. Same as Glock, Kimber, etc everybody has problems at some point and not everybody is going to like it just because it says Sig, Glock, S&W, or whatever.
Mine has been flawless up to this point. Fit and finish has been very good. It has chewed up everything I've fed it, which includes hard ball, truncated, and HP's, all in different weights. I have ran the factory mags and some cheap ass aftermarket 7rd GI type mags, which all fed flawlessly. I like the controls and the feel of the rear safety. I like the factory grips, although I have a set of VZ's that will be installed shortly (all about the looks there). I'm running a Railed Tac Pac, which is an entry level pistol, but I'd would speculate that if this is entry then everything above should run as good or better! Oh and yeah there is alot of Sig haters out there, but this is my first Sig and I'd say that you shouldn't get hurt if you pick one up. Same as Glock, Kimber, etc everybody has problems at some point and not everybody is going to like it just because it says Sig, Glock, S&W, or whatever.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One drawback to these things is resale value. They have NOT caught on well, and don't seem to move well. </div></div>
I would have happily bought a SIG 1911 if they had a normal 1911 extractor and a traditional slide profile.
I think the issues SIG is having, are directly related to the fact that people who want a Sig 220 want to buy a Sig 220.
It's a small detail but critical, and SIG is halfway to a solution now with 3 models that have round topped slides.
Sig makes great guns, but with 1911's you just have to understand what the market wants. The market for 1911's is part form part function.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One drawback to these things is resale value. They have NOT caught on well, and don't seem to move well. </div></div>
I would have happily bought a SIG 1911 if they had a normal 1911 extractor and a traditional slide profile.
I think the issues SIG is having, are directly related to the fact that people who want a Sig 220 want to buy a Sig 220.
It's a small detail but critical, and SIG is halfway to a solution now with 3 models that have round topped slides.
Sig makes great guns, but with 1911's you just have to understand what the market wants. The market for 1911's is part form part function.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Jim D said:
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
Wow so you have seen issues with Ed Brown's? What exactly was it if I may ask? And what about Wilson Combat are these issues QC realted or something else? Feel free to PM me as I am also allways up for learning something new.
Wow so you have seen issues with Ed Brown's? What exactly was it if I may ask? And what about Wilson Combat are these issues QC realted or something else? Feel free to PM me as I am also allways up for learning something new.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow so you have seen issues with Ed Brown's? What exactly was it if I may ask? And what about Wilson Combat are these issues QC realted or something else? Feel free to PM me as I am also allways up for learning something new.</div></div>
Wilson seems to deliver just about every time. I have not met anyone who's had a problem with their Wilson. I'm sure I will someday, but there is a reason that folks like LAV recommend them over others.
Were I to order a semi-custom tomorrow, it would be a Wilson.
I've only seen minor stuff with the Browns. Extractors, slide stops, ejector type stuff. Never anything substantially concerning... just simple stuff that was easily fixed (just shouldn't have had to be).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow so you have seen issues with Ed Brown's? What exactly was it if I may ask? And what about Wilson Combat are these issues QC realted or something else? Feel free to PM me as I am also allways up for learning something new.</div></div>
Wilson seems to deliver just about every time. I have not met anyone who's had a problem with their Wilson. I'm sure I will someday, but there is a reason that folks like LAV recommend them over others.
Were I to order a semi-custom tomorrow, it would be a Wilson.
I've only seen minor stuff with the Browns. Extractors, slide stops, ejector type stuff. Never anything substantially concerning... just simple stuff that was easily fixed (just shouldn't have had to be).
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I like my sig 1911. If you dont mind the siggy profile and and external extractor then it is really worth a look.
I have personally put around 900 rounds through it, and the guy before me supposedly shot a couple hundred. No issues so far here. Fit and finish seem very good, function has be great as well. It can be hard to find a holster, but crossbreed made one for me (too about a month to come it).
feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions.
I like my sig 1911. If you dont mind the siggy profile and and external extractor then it is really worth a look.
I have personally put around 900 rounds through it, and the guy before me supposedly shot a couple hundred. No issues so far here. Fit and finish seem very good, function has be great as well. It can be hard to find a holster, but crossbreed made one for me (too about a month to come it).
feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
We have had nothing but BAD experience with Sig Lately My Dept issues the Sig 220 and we have has issues with the newer models not being what the old ones were.There have been issues with sights falling off feeding issues etc. A neighboring dept just switched from the 229 in .357 to the 220 and have had nothing but problems with them as well.
As for the 1911's
The factory Sig 1911 mags are for shit.Have nothing but bad experience with them.Would not feed right and would not seat with a full mag.
Sig replaced them with novaks for all of our tac ops guns. The 8 tac ops 1911's we got (who the SWAT guys only)all had issues.None fed reliably with anything some were ok with just ball ammo.A for the others 5 had the sights come loose and fall off.
some had to be sent back 2x before they were fixed.Sig quality is not what it was.....
I will say that we just got another TAC OPS 1911 3 months ago for a new SWAT guy.His didn't have any problems
I couldn't make this up
We have had nothing but BAD experience with Sig Lately My Dept issues the Sig 220 and we have has issues with the newer models not being what the old ones were.There have been issues with sights falling off feeding issues etc. A neighboring dept just switched from the 229 in .357 to the 220 and have had nothing but problems with them as well.
As for the 1911's
The factory Sig 1911 mags are for shit.Have nothing but bad experience with them.Would not feed right and would not seat with a full mag.
Sig replaced them with novaks for all of our tac ops guns. The 8 tac ops 1911's we got (who the SWAT guys only)all had issues.None fed reliably with anything some were ok with just ball ammo.A for the others 5 had the sights come loose and fall off.
some had to be sent back 2x before they were fixed.Sig quality is not what it was.....
I will say that we just got another TAC OPS 1911 3 months ago for a new SWAT guy.His didn't have any problems
I couldn't make this up
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I had a Sig Sauer 1911 Compact and only keep it about a week. The thing would stove pipe and fail to feed. Even had Wilson combat magazines for it. I do have a Springfield Armory GI 1911 that was coated with Birdsong finish that just shoots everything I put through. The GI 1911 shoots quarter size holes at 15 yards.
Had a P220 carry and sold that. Never made sense to me to put rails on a carry gun. However, it always worked and really well. Also, have a P6 that shoots great. Been buying S&W M&Ps lately. Trying to buy American.
I had a Sig Sauer 1911 Compact and only keep it about a week. The thing would stove pipe and fail to feed. Even had Wilson combat magazines for it. I do have a Springfield Armory GI 1911 that was coated with Birdsong finish that just shoots everything I put through. The GI 1911 shoots quarter size holes at 15 yards.
Had a P220 carry and sold that. Never made sense to me to put rails on a carry gun. However, it always worked and really well. Also, have a P6 that shoots great. Been buying S&W M&Ps lately. Trying to buy American.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have a Sig Sauer 1911 Scorpion, and it has flawlessly reliable since the 1st day I got it. All my other sigs (p226, p229, p239, p220) have also been without any issues.
I have a Sig Sauer 1911 Scorpion, and it has flawlessly reliable since the 1st day I got it. All my other sigs (p226, p229, p239, p220) have also been without any issues.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
I have the Blackwater Sig 1911 with about 7k rds through it. It has run flawlesssly with what ever I feed it
I have the Blackwater Sig 1911 with about 7k rds through it. It has run flawlesssly with what ever I feed it
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Scorpion is a good solid smooth running 1911.
</div></div>
Now that is a Damn nice look pistol!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Scorpion is a good solid smooth running 1911.
Now that is a Damn nice look pistol!!!
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
My only complaint with my Scorpion is the finish. I had to send back to Sig due to Cerakote flaking off. They recoated it in about 4 weeks and sent it back. I've had it back a few months and there are places where the Cerakote is coming off again. There finish is darn sure not as tough as my rifle's Cerakote.
Other than that, it is very smooth and accurate.
My only complaint with my Scorpion is the finish. I had to send back to Sig due to Cerakote flaking off. They recoated it in about 4 weeks and sent it back. I've had it back a few months and there are places where the Cerakote is coming off again. There finish is darn sure not as tough as my rifle's Cerakote.
Other than that, it is very smooth and accurate.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
So why do people have an issue with the "non traditional" slide shape and the external extractor? I'm curious why its such a big deal with the "traditional" guys. To me I could careless, as it's fit and function that most important to me. Anyhow just curious! Shot my Sig again the other day and ran just fine, even with some cheap as GI type mags! Waiting on some new grip screws so I can put my VZ's on it and then contemplating a custom paint scheme.
So why do people have an issue with the "non traditional" slide shape and the external extractor? I'm curious why its such a big deal with the "traditional" guys. To me I could careless, as it's fit and function that most important to me. Anyhow just curious! Shot my Sig again the other day and ran just fine, even with some cheap as GI type mags! Waiting on some new grip screws so I can put my VZ's on it and then contemplating a custom paint scheme.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
1911 was not designed to use an external extractor. Sig thinks they know better than JMB, or are just being cheap and have devised a more practical manufacturing solution than to build it 'correct'. Not that I have anything against external extractors, most of my pistols have them..but a 1911 should not have one. Even Sig's "Traditional" models have external extractors, I'm not sure whats so 'traditional' about em.
1911 was not designed to use an external extractor. Sig thinks they know better than JMB, or are just being cheap and have devised a more practical manufacturing solution than to build it 'correct'. Not that I have anything against external extractors, most of my pistols have them..but a 1911 should not have one. Even Sig's "Traditional" models have external extractors, I'm not sure whats so 'traditional' about em.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1911 was not designed to use an external extractor. Sig thinks they know better than JMB, or are just being cheap and have devised a more practical manufacturing solution than to build it 'correct'. Not that I have anything against external extractors, most of my pistols have them..but a 1911 should not have one. Even Sig's "Traditional" models have external extractors, I'm not sure whats so 'traditional' about em. </div></div>
They want to take a production/CNC approach to something that needs to be hand tuned.
The internal extractor is a spring, and it needs to be tuned to the gun it goes into. Variances in the breech face, location of the channel, etc. all contribute to the extractor being an individually fit part. There is a reason why you can't take an extractor out of someone else's gun, shove it in yours, and expect it to work.
Sig want to pick something up out of a parts bin, shove it in the gun, and forget about it. They don't want to have to hand fit the part. Kimber does the same thing (shove them in and hope they work), which is part of why you see such a high return rate on them. Their "break in" can also be the extractor loosing some tension and polishing in.
External extractors also last longer than internal ones like the 1911.
It makes sense to WANT it, but no-one has been able to crack the code on it, yet. The S&W E-series one is probably closer to working, but I'm not sure it's there yet.
Most of the extractors that have been put on 1911's (previous S&W's, Sig's, Caspians) are basically extractors off of the 4506 or P220, which have an entirely different feeding cycle than a 1911 does (think about how common the 3 point jam is on a 1911, while it's non existent on P220's, Glocks, and other modern .45acp designs.)
The extractor is a wear item on the 1911, and it will screw with feeding, extraction and ejection if it's out of spec or just worn out. It's a big cause for why the 1911 is known as "the king of feedway stoppages."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1911 was not designed to use an external extractor. Sig thinks they know better than JMB, or are just being cheap and have devised a more practical manufacturing solution than to build it 'correct'. Not that I have anything against external extractors, most of my pistols have them..but a 1911 should not have one. Even Sig's "Traditional" models have external extractors, I'm not sure whats so 'traditional' about em. </div></div>
They want to take a production/CNC approach to something that needs to be hand tuned.
The internal extractor is a spring, and it needs to be tuned to the gun it goes into. Variances in the breech face, location of the channel, etc. all contribute to the extractor being an individually fit part. There is a reason why you can't take an extractor out of someone else's gun, shove it in yours, and expect it to work.
Sig want to pick something up out of a parts bin, shove it in the gun, and forget about it. They don't want to have to hand fit the part. Kimber does the same thing (shove them in and hope they work), which is part of why you see such a high return rate on them. Their "break in" can also be the extractor loosing some tension and polishing in.
External extractors also last longer than internal ones like the 1911.
It makes sense to WANT it, but no-one has been able to crack the code on it, yet. The S&W E-series one is probably closer to working, but I'm not sure it's there yet.
Most of the extractors that have been put on 1911's (previous S&W's, Sig's, Caspians) are basically extractors off of the 4506 or P220, which have an entirely different feeding cycle than a 1911 does (think about how common the 3 point jam is on a 1911, while it's non existent on P220's, Glocks, and other modern .45acp designs.)
The extractor is a wear item on the 1911, and it will screw with feeding, extraction and ejection if it's out of spec or just worn out. It's a big cause for why the 1911 is known as "the king of feedway stoppages."
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
Jim, your post sure sounded intelligent, but it doesn't really explain why those of us with Sigs aren't having reliability issues.
It also doesn't explain why, out of the 6 or 7 guys with 1911s I shoot with each Sunday, the ONLY 2 that never seem to fuck up are the Sig, and the S&W with external extractors.
I don't mean to say you're full of it or anything, but I don't think you can make the blanket statement that external extractor + 1911 = bad.
To say that JMB was brilliant is an understatement, but to say that nothing he ever did can be improved upon is just wrong.
Otto developed the first 4 cycle reciprocating piston engine - thankfully people didn't simply kick back and enjoy its "perfection", and never update/improve it.
I dont know why Sig/S&W use external extractors, but I thought I read engineers just couldn't bring themselves to including a design feature they fekt was just "wrong". I dunno, I don't really have a dog in the fight because I've seen quality pistols with both types of extractors work well, and both fail.
I don't have a hard-on for XDs, but my old XD45 (internal extractor) was THE MOST reliable gun I've ever experienced. Over 10k rounds and it never, ever, ever quit. Even my Glocks, which I do have a hardon for, screw the pooch now and then.
Jim, your post sure sounded intelligent, but it doesn't really explain why those of us with Sigs aren't having reliability issues.
It also doesn't explain why, out of the 6 or 7 guys with 1911s I shoot with each Sunday, the ONLY 2 that never seem to fuck up are the Sig, and the S&W with external extractors.
I don't mean to say you're full of it or anything, but I don't think you can make the blanket statement that external extractor + 1911 = bad.
To say that JMB was brilliant is an understatement, but to say that nothing he ever did can be improved upon is just wrong.
Otto developed the first 4 cycle reciprocating piston engine - thankfully people didn't simply kick back and enjoy its "perfection", and never update/improve it.
I dont know why Sig/S&W use external extractors, but I thought I read engineers just couldn't bring themselves to including a design feature they fekt was just "wrong". I dunno, I don't really have a dog in the fight because I've seen quality pistols with both types of extractors work well, and both fail.
I don't have a hard-on for XDs, but my old XD45 (internal extractor) was THE MOST reliable gun I've ever experienced. Over 10k rounds and it never, ever, ever quit. Even my Glocks, which I do have a hardon for, screw the pooch now and then.
Re: Any feedback on Sig Sauer 1911s ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim, your post sure sounded intelligent, but it doesn't really explain why those of us with Sigs aren't having reliability issues.</div></div>
I wasn't trying to. It's great when guns do run, and I was only commenting on the external extractor bit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It also doesn't explain why, out of the 6 or 7 guys with 1911s I shoot with each Sunday, the ONLY 2 that never seem to fuck up are the Sig, and the S&W with external extractors. </div></div>
That's great... what are the other 4 or 5 makes?
The S&W extractors tended to run out of the box, and run strong for about 8k rounds or so. Eventually they wore out, and you had to replace the whole slide. That's why they redesigned it this time around... it wasn't what it needed to be.
Out of the box, S&W's have very few extraction related problems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to say you're full of it or anything, but I don't think you can make the blanket statement that external extractor + 1911 = bad.</div></div>
I didn't say the external extractor was bad, I said no one has figured it out yet. If it does get figured out properly, it could be a huge thorn gone from the side of the 1911.
LAV and Hilton Yam have both spent a lot of time and energy on the concept. Larry has zero interest in them until something comes along worth looking at, but Hilton thinks the latest S&W iteration may have.
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/04/external-extractors-and-1911s.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To say that JMB was brilliant is an understatement, but to say that nothing he ever did can be improved upon is just wrong.
Otto developed the first 4 cycle reciprocating piston engine - thankfully people didn't simply kick back and enjoy its "perfection", and never update/improve it.</div></div>
I'm not all about sitting on your heels, it's just that this is an area where I don't think improvement has been made yet. I may be a purist in the sense that I don't think anything other than a 5" bushing barreled, steel frame gun is worth looking at... but there are certainly improvements like integrated plunger tubes (or Ned Christiansen's 3 legged plunger tube), beavertail grip safeties, ambi safeties for lefty's, magazine wells, front strap texturing, and advances in materials composition and tolerances.
The current offerings of external extractors don't offer an improvement, in my estimation. That's all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know why Sig/S&W use external extractors, but I thought I read engineers just couldn't bring themselves to including a design feature they fekt was just "wrong". I dunno, I don't really have a dog in the fight because I've seen quality pistols with both types of extractors work well, and both fail.
I don't have a hard-on for XDs, but my old XD45 (internal extractor) was THE MOST reliable gun I've ever experienced. Over 10k rounds and it never, ever, ever quit. Even my Glocks, which I do have a hardon for, screw the pooch now and then.</div></div>
It's easier to supply a working external extractor on a gun than an internal one. If you can slap a gun together with loose parts like you can with a Glock, it's a lot cheaper to build, sell, and warranty them, as opposed to paying skilled craftsmen to hand tune each part to each gun.
If someone figures out how to make one that runs better than an internal, I'll be all for it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim, your post sure sounded intelligent, but it doesn't really explain why those of us with Sigs aren't having reliability issues.</div></div>
I wasn't trying to. It's great when guns do run, and I was only commenting on the external extractor bit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It also doesn't explain why, out of the 6 or 7 guys with 1911s I shoot with each Sunday, the ONLY 2 that never seem to fuck up are the Sig, and the S&W with external extractors. </div></div>
That's great... what are the other 4 or 5 makes?
The S&W extractors tended to run out of the box, and run strong for about 8k rounds or so. Eventually they wore out, and you had to replace the whole slide. That's why they redesigned it this time around... it wasn't what it needed to be.
Out of the box, S&W's have very few extraction related problems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't mean to say you're full of it or anything, but I don't think you can make the blanket statement that external extractor + 1911 = bad.</div></div>
I didn't say the external extractor was bad, I said no one has figured it out yet. If it does get figured out properly, it could be a huge thorn gone from the side of the 1911.
LAV and Hilton Yam have both spent a lot of time and energy on the concept. Larry has zero interest in them until something comes along worth looking at, but Hilton thinks the latest S&W iteration may have.
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/04/external-extractors-and-1911s.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To say that JMB was brilliant is an understatement, but to say that nothing he ever did can be improved upon is just wrong.
Otto developed the first 4 cycle reciprocating piston engine - thankfully people didn't simply kick back and enjoy its "perfection", and never update/improve it.</div></div>
I'm not all about sitting on your heels, it's just that this is an area where I don't think improvement has been made yet. I may be a purist in the sense that I don't think anything other than a 5" bushing barreled, steel frame gun is worth looking at... but there are certainly improvements like integrated plunger tubes (or Ned Christiansen's 3 legged plunger tube), beavertail grip safeties, ambi safeties for lefty's, magazine wells, front strap texturing, and advances in materials composition and tolerances.
The current offerings of external extractors don't offer an improvement, in my estimation. That's all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont know why Sig/S&W use external extractors, but I thought I read engineers just couldn't bring themselves to including a design feature they fekt was just "wrong". I dunno, I don't really have a dog in the fight because I've seen quality pistols with both types of extractors work well, and both fail.
I don't have a hard-on for XDs, but my old XD45 (internal extractor) was THE MOST reliable gun I've ever experienced. Over 10k rounds and it never, ever, ever quit. Even my Glocks, which I do have a hardon for, screw the pooch now and then.</div></div>
It's easier to supply a working external extractor on a gun than an internal one. If you can slap a gun together with loose parts like you can with a Glock, it's a lot cheaper to build, sell, and warranty them, as opposed to paying skilled craftsmen to hand tune each part to each gun.
If someone figures out how to make one that runs better than an internal, I'll be all for it.
