Sidearms & Scatterguns Any IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, etc pistol shooters around?

[ShooterwithNoName]

So I've been practicing rifle for the last several years. I've been focusing all my energy into long range rifle. That said, I've learned a ton and improved my shooting drastically. I still have a ways to go but have improved nonetheless.

Now... I carry a pistol on me every day. I have one on my side as I type this. But to be honest, I cant shoot pistol worth a shit. I'm not missing targets or anything. Just no consistency, I'm sure I'm anticipating recoil, etc. This has been wearing on me.

So I really enjoy competitive shooting. It has helped me with my long range shooting. Because I learn more from watching and learning from other guys at a match than I do in a month just practicing on my own. I would like to try a few pistol matches coming up this year, as theres a few near me.

Any of you guys shoot pistol in IDPA, IPSC, etc.? Any recommendations or insight from a greenhorn starting out in competitive pistol? I just want to get better and shoot more/different matches. Of course I practice, but want to take it further and get better. Theres really not much in the way of instruction around here. So I use matches to go shoot, learn and have fun too.

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

I’m sure we can help you, even though I’m far from an expert on IDPA I can tell you it’s fun fun fun. The first thing you will want us to know is what pistol you carry and plan to use in matches then we can progress with help from there...

 

[ShtrRdy]

I try to go to USPSA matches one a month but lately I haven't been very regular. I started out shooting IDPA matches. These were fun but I had to drive 1.5 hr each way and over 4 or 5 stages I would only fire 40 to 60 rounds. Then I tried USPSA and had to get use to the higher round count stages. The drive was shorter too so that was nice.

Go check out each type of match to see if you would like to try one over the other. Over the years my pistol shooting ability has improved a lot.

 

[308pirate]

Have you considered taking some professional training on pistol shooting?

 

[davsco]

where in wva are you? yeah i shoot a bunch of uspsa, idpa, 2&3 gun, falling steel, etc. just like you got better with rifle in comp's, you'll do the same with handguns, and like prs, a ton of fun. actually i like it more with a lot more movement, higher round count. find a match, bring what you got, and surely the match director will make it work.

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

I'm just a bit north of Charleston, WV. Most matches I go to are usually 1hr+ drive so I dont mind the drivetime.

I'm looking into an IDPA match or two this year coming up as theres a couple close to me. I just like shooting matches, I enjoy it and learn a lot.

As far as pistols, I already have several. I have been shooting my Glock 22 and FNS40 a lot more lately. I just sent payment a few days ago on a Glock 35 that I'm purchasing from a member here on the hide. I'm purchasing it specifically for shooting matches with.

Btw, I'm a 40cal fan... most my guns are 40. I do have a 9mm conversion barrel for my G22 and will probably get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G35 too. Just in case I ever have the need to switch to 9mm. Biggest reason I love the 40cal Glocks is I can convert them to 9mm or 357sig if I shot it.

 

[CriticallyStressed]

Shooting in USPSA matches in college many moons ago taught me that I had a long way to go to improve my pistol skills. Some of my fellow shooters were incredible! I will say in my case that it did ingrain some bad habits that were hard to unlearn when I started taking formal pistol classes. Everyone at the matches was nice and helpful, heard a lot of “slow is smooth, smooth is fast”. I just wish I’d taken it more to heart

 

[titandriver]

Been shooting IPSC/USPSA since 1989, made GM in Open & Limited in mid-90's, currently M in Carry Optics division. Dry fire is your friend Shooter with No Name!

 

[sabrecross]

IDPA is a lot of fun. It definitely humbled me and taught me a lot about running and gunning. It's was always a tightrope between gaming and learning good shooting skills, and testing my equipment to the point of failure. I would encourage everyone to try it out.

 

[bluegrasspicker]

Just a little north of Buckhannon, WV out on Rt. 20 is White Horse. It's a great range, and they have a 3-gun match once per month. It's really fun with great people and some very interesting stages. There are even some ~250 yard rifle shots. Not every 3-gun place has that I'm told.

Steve Moneypenny competes there and has a range a little more towards you. His range is Owl's Roost. I've never made the trek (but mean to every month!), but a lot of folks who shoot the White Horse match go there also every month. They speak highly of the place. Steve's really great with a pistol and very generous with his knowledge. If you just go shoot with him you'll learn a lot. He also teaches courses.

If I were in your shoes I'd hit him up. You can PM me for his contact info.

 

[bluegrasspicker]

You should also come out for the White Horse matches, we have a ton of fun!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Want to get good at shooting = USPSA

Want to get good at arguing about rules and what gets one "kilt in the streetz" = IDPA

 

[skatz11]

I would start out with USPSA and skip IDPA.

USPSA may seem less defensive minded but I prefer the hit factor scoring and the freestyle approach to the stages. It lets you have some creative stage planning to suit your skill level equipment. I think it’s a better pure test of shooting skill. The goal is to be fast, accurate and efficient. The key is finding that balance and executing it on the clock.

In my experience IDPA stages with the lower round count are more scripted and scenario based. That’s not to say they can’t be challenging courses of fire. Just not my preference after trying both over the years.

 

[sabrecross]

A lot of it depends on the IDPA match director. When I was MD, I designed my stages for real life type defensive scenarios.

 

[titandriver]

A lot of it depends on the IDPA match director. When I was MD, I designed my stages for real life type defensive scenarios.

Can you give us an example or two of your type stages?

 

[sabrecross]

Can you give us an example or two of your type stages?

When I get home, I'll see if i can locate the data sheets and post them.

 

[davsco]

http://www.putnamshootingsports.com/

don't know anything about them, but if you go to the uspsa website and type in your town (charleston), they pop up. pretty sure there is something down in beckley also.
i haven't done 3 gun at whitehorse but have seen some of the stages set up, should be fun, maybe i'll make one being out in canaan valley a lot over the summer.

i prefer uspsa over idpa just due to higher round count and more movement and flexibility. but both are fun and will improve your pistolero skills for sure.

 

[drglock]

What I really liked about USPSA is you have to learn to shoot from multiple positions. You’ll also learn how to shoot on the move and engaging moving targets. Either one you shoot it’ll make you have to learn trigger control and sight pictures and both will greatly improve your gun handling skills.
Shoot both and go with the one that gives you the most enjoyment.

 

[davsco]

Btw, I'm a 40cal fan... most my guns are 40. I do have a 9mm conversion barrel for my G22 and will probably get a 9mm conversion barrel for the G35 too. Just in case I ever have the need to switch to 9mm. Biggest reason I love the 40cal Glocks is I can convert them to 9mm or 357sig if I shot it.

in most of the games, you'll want the lower recoil of 9mm (less recoil thus faster follow up shots) vs standard production .40 loads. now, if you reload, that's another story and .40 minor is a great competition round. if you shoot uspsa and enter in Limited division, that's where 'regular' .40 fits in perfectly because you need 'major power factor' to get the scoring advantage (c and d-zone hits score a little better if you shoot major vs minor). in 2 & 3 gun, uspsa production (and carry optics), and most of the idpa divisions, you only need 9mm to compete but you can use .40.

 

[titandriver]

When I get home, I'll see if i can locate the data sheets and post them.

Thank you - would enjoy checking them out.

 

[NineHotel]

Outlaw matches are a ton of fun too. IDPA is fun and it is good to see the number of matches following this discipline. I abandoned USPSA decades ago because of the ever increasing thickness of the rulebook. Glock matches can be a bawl too; check their web site and see what's in your area.

Good ole' guys getting together and following sorta hybrid IDPA/USPSA/Steel challenge match, done safely with low entry fees, is your best bang for the buck. If you find an active sanctioned club nearby, that's awesome too as it's great to be a part of an active club with lots of opportunities to shoot, regardless of their particular alphabet soup affiliation.

 

[davsco]

Good ole' guys getting together and following sorta hybrid IDPA/USPSA/Steel challenge match, done safely with low entry fees, is your best bang for the buck. If you find an active sanctioned club nearby, that's awesome too as it's great to be a part of an active club with lots of opportunities to shoot, regardless of their particular alphabet soup affiliation.

i'm fortunate to be within an hour of Peacemaker, just below Martinsburg WV and above Winchester VA. matches almost every weekend (unfortunately excluding winter) including 2 & 3 gun, Kahr Defensive (akin to idpa/uspsa mix), supersteel (uspsa style falling steel) and of course PRS and they do other stuff including PRS-style rimfire and prs-style fun matches (belly only).

https://practiscore.com/clubs/peacemaker-national-training-center

 

[sabrecross]

Thank you - would enjoy checking them out.

I've attached a PDF file containing the stages I designed several years ago.

 

[sabrecross]

...And you're having a bad day if any of these scenarios come true!

 

[titandriver]

Nice job sabrecross, look ike good challenging stages!

 

[sabrecross]

Nice job sabrecross, look ike good challenging stages!

Thanks. I received a lot of complaints from the gamers

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

Thanks you guys for all the info. I'll check everything out listed above for sure. I'm not far from White Horse.

Thanks for all the advice also. I went ahead and ordered a KKM 9mm conversion barrel for the 35. I like having the option and may very well want to go with 9mm.

Im excited to try it out.

 

[Alphatreedog]

First good for you . The nicest and often times most solid people I've met have been a copetition . The number one thing that the majority of succesful competitors do is dry fire . There is no single thing that will help you improve more . As you learn grip , stance and draw tweaks and variations dry is what will muacle memory them for you . Dry fire and live fire are exactly the same in several elements .
1 Your presentation . Whether draw , low ready like some steel matches or compressed ready . Same presentation .
2. Sight aquisition . Dry fire hones this element . As critical as any and refined in a controlled enviroment . No other bangs going off around you , no pressure . Just you and your pistol .
3. Flash sight picture . The moment that you squeeze the trigger and all of the components have come together . It's the last thing you see before hitting the bang switch . This is the culmination of your efforts and directly correlates to live fire .
The final portion of dry fire is live fire . The element that gives you feedback as to any correction you may need and the proof that all of your hard work has paid off .
In addition I would recommed youtube . Travis Haley , Ron Avery , Taran Butler . On Taran Butler's youtube page is a guy that is a successful compettitor I cant1 remember his name . Needless to say that your endevour requires consistent practice. Mike Seeklander has an excellent competition training program that is book and internet based . Above all have fun and good luck .

 

[Goes-Bang]

For competitive pistol information, might I recommend: https://forums.brianenos.com/

 

[Mike_Honcho]

IMHO - you get more out of practice for matches than the matches themselves. What you learn and become better at from matches - is how to play the game. Course management.

It is the weekly or more practice sessions with a group that pushes each other to be faster or more accurate or more mindful of a certain aspect that really helps you shoot better.

Short of that get yourself a stack of target stands and make up your own COF at least once a week.

Enos' book Beyond Fundamentals is also well worth the read.

Dry fire and mag changes - get that stuff down to an automatic. Scream front sight in your head...learn to follow the FS through the arc of recoil...next thing you know you'll be pre-staging the trigger.

Lastly, do you reload? If not....Big Blue...it won't be any cheaper, but you'll shoot more rounds.

 

[Alphatreedog]

If you are serioualy competing and looking for an edge or just trying to spice up your dry fire check out The Next Money Pit thread in the Bear Pit . Mike Honcho also nailed it with reloading . Not only will you be able to shoot more you will be able to taylor your loads . 147gn 9mm are subsonic and soft ahooters to begin with . Helps make power factor too . When you soften up the recoil it allows you to focus on all the subtleties of grip , trigger control , recoil management etc. . The bang can be distracting . And believe it or not you'll be amazed when you have developed your skill on light loads the hop 9n a .40 or .45 . Even the little snappy guns will seem more tame once you've developed your pistol skills . You won't be thinking interms of uncontrollable but more aware of time between follow up shots and target reaquisition .
Edit : Piggy backing on Mike Honcho again , competition gives you your homework . It shows you your weaknesses under stress and time . If you push you will find the limits of your speed of target engagement and trigger skills . "Professionals do it until they fail ". Sometimes it is more likely that you find a flaw or limit in a technique . The absolute coolest part of your endeavour is that you never get there. Oh yeah you will improve beyond your and your buddies wildest imagination and yet this magnificent mountain just keeps on going up . You ultimately are competing against yourself and it's addictive .

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

Thanks very much for all the help guys. Im excited to get better. I've shot forever but just want to start getting more efficient with the lead I put down range.

I do reload in fact. As of now I only really reload for rifle but have reloaded 44mag. I do plan to reload for my pistols once I start shooting in volume. I have a progressive setup that I've never used and this will give me a reason to knock the dust off of it and put it to good use.

 

[ClangClang]

You'll be shooting your Glock 35 (40 cal) in Limited division. That means you can have magazines up to 140mm in length (around 20-21 rounds generally), any holster you want, and can have your mag pouches in front of your body (instead of behind your hip). Technically, you are not allowed to shoot your G35 with the 9mm barrel in USPSA, but you won't have any issues at local/club matches. If you start getting good and winning, or want to go to a Level 2 match or higher, you'll need to get a G34.

You can't effectively practice without a shot timer. There are lots of free apps that work perfectly fine for setting par times and doing dryfire practice at home. I've never heard of anyone having any success with a phone-based timer for live fire.

 

[skatz11]

You'll be shooting your Glock 35 (40 cal) in Limited division. That means you can have magazines up to 140mm in length (around 20-21 rounds generally), any holster you want, and can have your mag pouches in front of your body (instead of behind your hip). Technically, you are not allowed to shoot your G35 with the 9mm barrel in USPSA, but you won't have any issues at local/club matches. If you start getting good and winning, or want to go to a Level 2 match or higher, you'll need to get a G34.

This only goes for USPSA production division. He can shoot the conversion barrel in limited division, but would be scored “minor”. Nothing wrong with starting out shooting limited minor.
I’d take the extra few 9mm rounds in the 140mm mags and focus on shooting A’s. For a beginner it’s a better plan than shooting production (max mag capacity 10 rds). Limited minor will let you focus on moving and shooting safely without the extra reloads needed in production.

 

[DaleGribble82]

If you were to shoot an IDPA match you would be shooting in the Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) Divison due to the use of the conversion barrel. IPSC, IDPA, and USPSA are all a blast. It’s a lot of fun you meet a lot of great people. You literally could show up with nothing, and everyone would take care of you. Just head out to a match bring what you’ve got and have fun.

 

[Derek200]

Want to get good at shooting = USPSA

Want to get good at arguing about rules and what gets one "kilt in the streetz" = IDPA

This is funny! There were a few shooters that showed up to out IDPA matches that the match director had to rehearse for dealing with. Some crazy whiny shit went down in IDPA. It was fun. But some of those guys must’ve thought they were “this close” to being sponsored the way they acted.

 

[DaleGribble82]

This is funny! There were a few shooters that showed up to out IDPA matches that the match director had to rehearse for dealing with. Some crazy whiny shit went down in IDPA. It was fun. But some of those guys must’ve thought they were “this close” to being sponsored the way they acted.

I can agree 100% with this. I’d be a liar if I said that a lot of bafoons in IDPA aren’t rule Nazis and somewhat of a pain in the ass to deal with.

 

[Derek200]

I live in IDPA country. The “boys in berryville” I think started it? Seems like they do everything to keep selling 1911’s

Which. I’m glad I got to compete cause I learned a shit ton about how to shoot fast that I wouldn’t have ever figured out otherwise.

 

[steve123]

Trigger time and fundamentals;

Most pistol shooters start out with bad habits, I did in fact. Half of the blame is not realizing how much flinch, or the anticipation of recoil, and muzzle blast, is affecting the ability to place a shot where it should be going vs where it went.

The rest of the blame is poor trigger control, poor gripping, and poor sight alignment.

People tend to #1 overshoot their ability level, and #2 develop bad habits in the process. The expression "can't miss fast enough to win" comes to mind.

I wish I would have known back then what I know now. Granted I'm no Rob L, or the likes, and only went up to mid A in IPSC back when I was into it. But I did win B stock world champion on steel and was the guy to beat on a local level.

This is the advice I can give which may seem a bit funny but I truly believe this advice will tighten up a pistol shooters skills immensely.

That is - using higher quality PCP air pistols as a practice aid for developing fundamentals. Back then if I had known about practicing with nice air pistols I would have been a much more precise pistol shooter!

In a certain time frame in my life, maybe 8-9 years ago, I delved into shooting small round steels from .65" to 1.5" from 10Y to 25Y, using my PCP air pistol. I had gotten to the point over a few months of practice that I could hit the 1" steel 9/10 or 10/10 most of the time at 10Y. Sometimes on a good run I would hit the .65" steels 7-8 out of 10.

I had learned near perfect form, no flinch, as good of followthrough as could be attained, great trigger control, and trick sight alignment.

In that time frame I tried some IDPA, and for the fun of it with my wifes new G43 in 380ACP. I shot the first match with it without a time deduction, all in the head or the chest -0, and came in forth place. I had to slow down some to maintain a good sight picture because of the very short sight radious and I was rusty in speed anyway having not shot USPSA in a long time.

I did well because shooting a head shot at 15Y had become easy, even in match pressure, and the -0 in the chest more so. I was used to shooting at ridiculously smaller targets with my air pistol, you see.

Other things, Rob L, Jerry M, other GM's, have literally shot over a million rounds downrange in their life. There's no making up for this fact, any of us would have to shoot thousands of dollars of ammo a year to hone our skills to come anywhere close to their level with a pistol. I tried earlier in my life and it was more like work than fun, I had limited finances and limited time, so....

But hey, I'd rather be a little slower and hit center than fast with poor hits or missing, just how I look at it.

 

[Srikaleak]

This is a good write-up. Any reason you'd go Air rifle over .22lr? Compared to my 9mm the. 22lr feels like a peashooter and ammo is available again.

 

[steve123]

This is a good write-up. Any reason you'd go Air rifle over .22lr? Compared to my 9mm the. 22lr feels like a peashooter and ammo is available again.

Even a 22rf has some recoil and noise, masking possible bad habits, and most people are subjected to shooting at shooting ranges. I stand by using a air pistol instead because you can shoot it indoors or on your property and there's only the tiniest bit of noise and no recoil worth acknowledging.

Once you've then gotten "it" all down, then go to the 22, or skip it and go to the 9's, etc. Well you'll be shooting your other pistols as often as possible too so you can start identifying what you had done wrong before and applying what you've learned with the air pistol.

I'm lucky because I know a guy that owns his own shooting range, well for the last 4 years now anyway. We meet every Wednesday afternoon and bring whatever we want. It's a lot of fun and keeps me tuned up a little bit at least. We used to shoot for quarters but my friends thought better of it after a while because I had to tighten my belt at some point during the afternoon, lol. Fun while it lasted and the wife got a dinner out more often those days.

This is how I got my wife shooting pistol. I bought her a $40 single pump pneumatic pellet pistol and I put tin cans on a saw horse 7 yards away to start with. Being the tyrant I am I'd coax her to practice when she got home from work, not much, just 3-4 racks worth an evening. She went from zero to hero in a short amount of time. Wasn't too hard for her to clean the cans off at 10Y a week later.

 

[Srikaleak]

Ok I see what you're saying. The advantages are no recoil, no blast, and potential to put far more bullets down range. But here is one big negative to your idea. No bang = No fun . I'll have to consider this avenue as I train the little ones in my family.

 

[Unknown]

IDPA, IPSC, Bullseye, and steel shooting all teach valuable skills involving marksmanship, speed, movement, and other skills. However, if you aren't careful, they can also teach bad habits for true gun fighting. Proper use of cover and tactics won't win matches, and will slow you down dramatically but that is what can save your bacon.

Getting some professional gunfighting tactics and skills, then practice those skills on your own, and use the matches as gun games where you can play, and hone some skills, but always keep in mind that these are games, and recognize where gamesmanship takes over, and where you should really use true fighting tactics/skills.

Certainly, you can practice fighting skills at many matches as long as you realize that practicing those skills is more important than placing well at the match. It all depends on what your reason for attending the matches. Once you get some really professional training, you can pick and choose which stages of fire you will practice fighting skills, and on which stages you are practicing skills that may help in matches, but hamper you in a fight.

There is always more to learn if you keep your mind open. Being aware of what you are learning, and practicing, and being able to separate out which skills you need for matches vs the skills you need for a fight will make it so that you can learn from any match or professional training event.

 

[steve123]

Ok I see what you're saying. The advantages is no recoil, no blast, and potential to put far more bullets down range. But here is one big negative to your idea. No bang = No fun . I'll have to consider this avenue as I train the little ones in my family.

I probably should have mentioned my PCP air pistol is a Steyr LP5 which is a fancy Olympic match semi auto. It's a little more fun than a regular air pistol.

But I get what you mean.

 

[Derek200]

Even a 22rf has some recoil and noise, masking possible bad habits, and most people are subjected to shooting at shooting ranges. I stand by using a air pistol instead because you can shoot it indoors or on your property and there's only the tiniest bit of noise and no recoil worth acknowledging.

Once you've then gotten "it" all down, then go to the 22, or skip it and go to the 9's, etc. Well you'll be shooting your other pistols as often as possible too so you can start identifying what you had done wrong before and applying what you've learned with the air pistol.

I'm lucky because I know a guy that owns his own shooting range, well for the last 4 years now anyway. We meet every Wednesday afternoon and bring whatever we want. It's a lot of fun and keeps me tuned up a little bit at least. We used to shoot for quarters but my friends thought better of it after a while because I had to tighten my belt at some point during the afternoon, lol. Fun while it lasted and the wife got a dinner out more often those days.

This is how I got my wife shooting pistol. I bought her a $40 single pump pneumatic pellet pistol and I put tin cans on a saw horse 7 yards away to start with. Being the tyrant I am I'd coax her to practice when she got home from work, not much, just 3-4 racks worth an evening. She went from zero to hero in a short amount of time. Wasn't too hard for her to clean the cans off at 10Y a week later.

I don’t have a pcp pistol but have an FWB 800W rifle. I don’t think people realize how good these stocks are and how amazing the triggers are.

Steve - do you shoot from holster with your lp-5? That would make it amazing practice. I’ve always thought it would be worth a ton to get that practice with a high end air pistol if you could get something close to the holster set up and grip of cetnerfire pistols like 1911s and glocks.

 

[deerhunter70]

So I've been practicing rifle for the last several years. I've been focusing all my energy into long range rifle. That said, I've learned a ton and improved my shooting drastically. I still have a ways to go but have improved nonetheless.

Now... I carry a pistol on me every day. I have one on my side as I type this. But to be honest, I cant shoot pistol worth a shit. I'm not missing targets or anything. Just no consistency, I'm sure I'm anticipating recoil, etc. This has been wearing on me.

So I really enjoy competitive shooting. It has helped me with my long range shooting. Because I learn more from watching and learning from other guys at a match than I do in a month just practicing on my own. I would like to try a few pistol matches coming up this year, as theres a few near me.

Any of you guys shoot pistol in IDPA, IPSC, etc.? Any recommendations or insight from a greenhorn starting out in competitive pistol? I just want to get better and shoot more/different matches. Of course I practice, but want to take it further and get better. Theres really not much in the way of instruction around here. So I use matches to go shoot, learn and have fun too.

Do it! I shoot uspsa and steel matches. It is a ton of fun and 99% of the people are amazing. I considered myself a good to great shot with handgun. I like to target shoot and handgun hunt. What I didn’t know was that all changed the first time a shot timer went off. Talk about a humbling moment. But I had the time of my life. That was about 6 years or so ago. In the beginning I shot one or 2 matches a month because of work and hunting/fishing trips. Work schedule changed and now I shoot 5 matches a month at least. Be careful, it’s addicting. Go shoot some matches. Don’t worry about how well you do (we all were terrible in the beginning), just enjoy the experience.

 

[doc88]

Most of the advanced USPSA shooters have all ready recomended it in this thread but I'll reiterate...dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Along with the drawing , sight picture, reloads, and transitions, learn to pull the trigger without moving the sights. That's the key to hitting the target whether it be rifle or pistol. Align your sights on a white wall and pull the trigger however many times until you can do it without the sights moving. Another poster mentioned brianenos forum. A wealth of knowledge there. Get Steve Anderson and or Ben Stoeger dry fire books and set yourself up a routine. Live fire practice when you can. When you feel you are safe, go to a match and have fun and be safe. The more you practice, dry fire and compete, the more confident you'll become in carrying also. Good luck

 

[doc88]

Oh, did I mention DRY FIRE?

 

[steve123]

I don’t have a pcp pistol but have an FWB 800W rifle. I don’t think people realize how good these stocks are and how amazing the triggers are.

Steve - do you shoot from holster with your lp-5? That would make it amazing practice. I’ve always thought it would be worth a ton to get that practice with a high end air pistol if you could get something close to the holster set up and grip of cetnerfire pistols like 1911s and glocks.

I had that same rifle, just sold it last year, it was 12ftlbs and I used it for Field Target, 12ftlbs is too hard for me, lol.. Yep great everything on them.

I kept my 601 though.

No holster, I just go from low ready position. I did notice that holsters can be had and that you can buy 1911 grips for them but I never went there.

Yeah, I forgot to mention ammo cost, $12 a tin of 500, for match ammo.

 

[Derek200]

And they stack pellets! I bet it would be easy to get one of the judges guys to make a holster. Would have to adjust the trigger to not be too light for that probably.