Sidearms & Scatterguns Any input on red dot pistols

[Delicatessen]

I have been toying with an M&P core with a viper dot and am considering trying a red dot pistol in a ccw type set up. Reasoning is: After a bit of practice picking up the dot I am just as quick up close, more accurate at distance and much easier to get good hits while moving away from targets. i want an option smaller ( grip length and width) than my p229, so I am considering either custom milling something or trying a M&p compact frame with the core upper (most likely with RMR). Any input on what is doable and easier to carry than a p229. I am considering a p320 so I can easily swap grip sizes but does not seem too much ch smaller in subcompact than M&p

 

[Ramius]

I set up three of them on GLOCK platform with Trijicon RMRs last year. I've been doing some dry practicing and short range sessions. Everything I have done so far has me look at them this way:

1. It is actually a little slower than iron sights for most CCW type environments
2. It is better on dynamic targets (target moving or you moving)
3. It is better at longer distances
4. It is bigger

So I plan on taking a few tactical pistol classes with it this year, I have not committed to using it because I have not spent enough time on it.

 

[Delicatessen]

Yeah, I definitely started slower with the red dot in closer range but not point shooting distances. I have become about on par, basically I want to practice with a smaller ccw style pistol with this to see how it compares. Luckily my range has open bays so I can practice drawing and moving etc. I am not totally sold yet so do not want to mess with my 229 just considering trying a cheaper option to see. That said I have issues with the my core and vortex zero (the whole taking it off to lock the screws part) the zero never seems to hold and am at the far end of adjustment range. So to give this a fair shot considering moving the vortex to a 22 training ar and trying a different dot.

 

[Briggs]

RMR and deltapoint are two of the more robust choices and I would go with one of these paired with some suppressor sights for concealed carry. The rmr has a thinner base which makes the suppressor iron sights easier to see. May have to go with a super high set for deltapoint. If it's just for the range then throw whatever you like on top and carry on.

 

[Potss]

Cajun Gun works or CZ a custom will cut a CZ P-01 to accommodate an RMR. Best carry gun out there IMHO.

RAIN6 will cut the new Stryk B for an RMR as well.

 

[Delicatessen]

I think I am going to try rmr on an old police trade in p229 slide (needed refinishing anyway). Already have all the pieces so just have to get it milled and refinished so figure it is worth the couple hundred to give it a realistic try. Let you know how it goes.

 

[Snuby642]

+ 1 on the suppressor sights in tandom / co witness gets you on target very fast.

 

[K-tech]

Delic, how are you planning on carrying a pistol set up with an RMR? Me personally I don't think I'd like the extra bulk

 

[Delicatessen]

I was planning on trying it out to see, I have an old police trade in slide that I can get milled and swap it out if I don't like it. I have tried the multiple plate option ones and like the concept of being able to hit much easier when moving away...but to me the plate option keeps losing zero (M&p and vortex red dot). So it would be a p229 with rmr and Suppressor sights as back up. I also have smaller handguns when this might prove too large (p239, pps, p238).

As as far as carry I typically carry owb at about 4, trying to mock this up seems like the sight will still sit decently hidden. I also carry shoulder when going on long road trips. This really wouldn't matter too much in that config.

 

[K-tech]

Gotcha. Hey if it works more power to you

 

[txfireguy2003]

I'll say this, I was at a pistol match this weekend where one off the shooters was running a G19 with some sort of dot sight. G19's aren't typically Berri competitive in these type matches because of the short sight radius. This was the shooter's second pistol match, but his shooting was very accurate and quite fast. He was quite competitive with that little short barrel G19. He credited the red dot for the accuracy and the speed, since it basically gives you a much longer sight radius and reduces the number of things you have to align. No more centering the front sight in the rear notch etc etc etc... just put the dot on the target and shoot.

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[USMC 308]

ATX Armory does a superb RMR cut, deeper that a Glock MOS cut, so you can make due with factory sights...although suppressor height sights are preferred. They take the time to bevel the edges carefully so it's a perfect fit...nice and snug. Cerakote in any color you can imagine.

http://www.atxarmory.com/milling-glock-slide-s/186.htm

 

[WATERWALKER]

I was at a competitive pistol shoot a few weeks ago. A guy showed up w/ a Glock 17L, AimPoint H-1, lightened slide (relief cuts), flared mag well, & aftermarket trigger. Did I mention this guy could shoot? Yeah, he smoked everyone.

I've tried the Trijicon RMR (on a Glock 19) & I didn't really care for it. I had a bit of trouble picking up the large dot. I like Glock pistols. A LOT! But, the RMR didn't excite me at all.

After shooting, I was chatting w/ the guy who owns the tricked-out Glock 17L. He offered to let me shoot it. Who am I to turn down these offers? At 30 yards I was making solid headshots. I thought maybe I was missing, so I moved my POA over about 1.5 - 2" & started a second ragged hole. I don't normally shoot a pistol that well & I shot this string quickly. I was very impressed.

I would definitely want to get behind a pistol & RDS before burning a pile of cash on something you may not like. Good luck.

 

[USMC 308]

I've tried the Trijicon RMR (on a Glock 19) & I didn't really care for it. I had a bit of trouble picking up the large dot. I like Glock pistols. A LOT! But, the RMR didn't excite me at all.

Was that the 6.5 MOA dot, which I find huge....or the 3.25 MOA Dot, which I find much more accurate and usable?

 

[WATERWALKER]

It must've been the 6.5 because it was huge. It was too big. As I presented the pistol toward the target, I had to to drive the pistol at a downward angle to pick up the dot. It wasn't / isn't for me.

 

[Sooter76]

I ran an RMR on a Glock19 for a couple years before going back to plain Trijicon night sights. During that time I sent my 2 RMR's back to Trijicon 5 times between them before I finally gave up. I still believe in the concept, but I don't think that RMR's are robust enough yet to handle the violent slide recoil long term.

Others have had better luck than I have and I tend to think it's luck of the draw right now as to if your RMR will be able to handle the beating.

 

[txfireguy2003]

I ran an RMR on a Glock19 for a couple years before going back to plain Trijicon night sights. During that time I sent my 2 RMR's back to Trijicon 5 times between them before I finally gave up. I still believe in the concept, but I don't think that RMR's are robust enough yet to handle the violent slide recoil long term.

Others have had better luck than I have and I tend to think it's luck of the draw right now as to if your RMR will be able to handle the beating.

That's what I always worried about, the recoil beating the electronics to death.

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[Sooter76]

That's what I always worried about, the recoil beating the electronics to death.

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Yep... Between the two RMR's, I had the dot go out and zero drift. But the most common fault was the dot jumping all over the place with every shot. When this happened my 7meter target would literally look like a shotgun pattern.

 

[Yondering]

That's what I always worried about, the recoil beating the electronics to death.

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For every guy that has trouble with one though, remember there are hundreds or maybe thousands who don't, but they don't all post about it. A number of guys I shoot with have RMR equipped pistols (myself included) and have never had any trouble with them. Our standard practice is to replace the batteries once per year on our birthdays.

There are also plenty of sub-par red dot installations (including the MOS Glock system) that can loosen and allow the whole optic to shift around; that's not the optic's fault. If you have the slide milled so the optic fits tight down into the slide and can't move, you'll have better success there.

It must've been the 6.5 because it was huge. It was too big. As I presented the pistol toward the target, I had to to drive the pistol at a downward angle to pick up the dot. It wasn't / isn't for me.

This sounds off, like you're attributing the downward angle to the red dot, but it has nothing to do with it. The gun shoots to the same point regardless whether it has an RMR on it or not; you don't have to point it downward to find the dot if the optic is zeroed.