Bought a MPA 300wm here and love it. Shoots nice groups and had great success out to past 1500 yards.
Going to do more load development to find tighter Velocity spreads
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Any Masterpiece Arms rifle owners out there?
- Thread starter Bergara 6mm
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Lovely rifle! I am very impressed with my MPA, it is turning into the best rifle i have ever owned, and i have had rifles before that would do one ragged hole (groups of around 1/4”).
A lot of horsepower in that big Winmag cartridge. What bullet weight are you shooting and what MVs are you getting?
Have you tried shooting the super heavy high BC bullets in the 240 to 250 grain range? Some attractive options available these days in the Hornady Atips and the Bergers.
I realize twist rate might be a limitation, but have been playing around with my ballistic calculator using the very long monolithic Seneca and Cayuga bullets from PVA. Theoretically: Driving their 241 gn Seneca (claimed G1 of 1.15 and G7 of 0.555) at even half descent speeds (say 2550) using one of the progressive Reloder powders could give you similar wind drift compared to a traditional 50 BMG Hornady A-max load from 10 years ago at 1,500 yards. Assuming the bullet can handle the transonic phase it will do well out to beyond 2,000 yards... [Of course the 50 cal bullets have progressed as well, and the Cutting Edge 1,002 grain projectile has a G7 BC above 0.6.]
However, the fine print says they used a 7 twist 30 cal barrel to achieve that phenomenal result at 2800 fps. Never heard of anyone running a 7 twist barrel on a 30 cal of any kind, but it seems the bullet BC arms race is continuing at full speed.
Something to think about when it is time to buy a new barrel...
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In Jan 2020 I got a 6.5 MPA Pro Comp Chassis (FDE) w/ Impact Action, a 26" M24 contour Bartlein Barrel, TriggerTech Diamond, Area 419 Hellfire Break , ZCO 5-27 x 56 & TBAC Bipod. The thing shoots lights out, sub MOA (3/8). It would shoot better if the Indian shooting the arrow was better.
I’m a fan. Only change I would have made is not selecting the QD Sphur so that a Send It MV3 wouldn’t have any obstructions. I’m really wanting the MV3.
I’m a fan. Only change I would have made is not selecting the QD Sphur so that a Send It MV3 wouldn’t have any obstructions. I’m really wanting the MV3.
That is a superb set of components. Post some targets!
Presume you are happy with the ZCO scope?
I am running the 215 berger hybrids with a 1:10 twist barrel @2920. This barrel shoots fastLovely rifle! I am very impressed with my MPA, turning into the best rifle i have ever owned, and i have had rifles before that would do ragged hole group around 1/4”.
A lot of horsepower in that big Winmag cartridge. What bullet weight are you shooting and what MVs are you getting?
Have you tried shooting the super heavy high BC bullets in the 240 to 250 grain range? Some attractive options available these days in the Hornady Atips and the Bergers.
I realize twist rate might be a limitation, but have been playing around with my ballistic calculator using the very long monolithic Seneca and Cayuga bullets from PVA. Theoretically: Driving their 241 gn Seneca (claimed G1 of 1.15 and G7 of 0.555) at even half descent speeds (say 2550) using one of the progressive Reloder powders could give you similar wind drift compared to a traditional 50 BMG Hornady A-max load from 10 years ago at 1,500 yards. Assuming the bullet can handle the transonic phase it will do well out to beyond 2,000 yards... [Of course the 50 cal bullets have progressed as well, and the Cutting Edge 1,002 grain projectile has a G7 BC above 0.6.]
However, the fine print says they used a 7 twist 30 cal barrel to achieve that phenomenal result at 2800 fps. Never heard of anyone running a 7 twist barrel on a 30 cal of any kind, but it seems the bullet BC arms race is continuing at full speed.
Something to think about when it is time to buy a new barrel...
Yes, the ZCO 5-27x56 is a kickass piece of hardware. I’ve got the MPC2 recital and am very happy with it. I got this prior to the MPC3 recital but don’t think that I would have chosen it over the MPC2.
I have installed the barrel tuner from Aaron Hipp, and all i can say is “it works”, like in bullets holes touching at 100. Routinely see three shot groups below 0.2” now. Will do 5 shot groups soon.
Just something to be aware of: The original V1 DN3 brake is incompatible with the tuner. Most self timing and shimmed brakes and all suppressors wil work though.
I contacted Phil at MPA and we worked out a deal to replace the V1 brake with the updated V2 brake, which fits perfectly. I am now using the V1 brake on another rifle.
Groups first closed down to 0.2” as i turned the tuner weight (which moved it forward on the barrel), then opened up to about 0.4”, then closed down again to below 0.2”. Still need to do some fine tuning by moving the tuner in smaller increments. These were shot off a bipod and a rear bag with another fidgety person on the other side of the integrated bench. My aiming error is likely 0.1”, and in the hands of a better shooter, and set up for free recoil, these groups probably would have looked even better.
You probably can achieve the same effects with powder charge and seating depth adjustment, but it is so much faster and more convenient, and less wasted components. I have done load development at the bench a few times, but you have to cart a lot of gear with you. With a tuner, all you carry with you is one tiny hex key.
For those that want to use factory ammo, this is a way to (almost) approach the same accuracy without needing to buy $2K worth of reloading kit. The same price as one good sizing die.
Just something to be aware of: The original V1 DN3 brake is incompatible with the tuner. Most self timing and shimmed brakes and all suppressors wil work though.
I contacted Phil at MPA and we worked out a deal to replace the V1 brake with the updated V2 brake, which fits perfectly. I am now using the V1 brake on another rifle.
Groups first closed down to 0.2” as i turned the tuner weight (which moved it forward on the barrel), then opened up to about 0.4”, then closed down again to below 0.2”. Still need to do some fine tuning by moving the tuner in smaller increments. These were shot off a bipod and a rear bag with another fidgety person on the other side of the integrated bench. My aiming error is likely 0.1”, and in the hands of a better shooter, and set up for free recoil, these groups probably would have looked even better.
You probably can achieve the same effects with powder charge and seating depth adjustment, but it is so much faster and more convenient, and less wasted components. I have done load development at the bench a few times, but you have to cart a lot of gear with you. With a tuner, all you carry with you is one tiny hex key.
For those that want to use factory ammo, this is a way to (almost) approach the same accuracy without needing to buy $2K worth of reloading kit. The same price as one good sizing die.
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Yes sir. The threads worked as is, no gunsmith required.
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Did you steal my rifle? That looks very similar to my Impact 300WM in a burnt bronze MPA ESR, lol.
Does your impact action sit level in the chassis? Mine does not so the chassis inclinometer is not level when the scope/action are. I was told by the gunsmith that put mine together that this is common with MPA chassis'. I also think i need to adjust the feed lip on my mag as it doesn't always want to feed right with factory FGGM SMK 190g.
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I have read reports of the MPA chassis benefitting from bedding, I wonder if that would help you.
I wish I knew how to do that stuff. My understanding is that it isn’t a huge deal as long as action and reticle are level. Just sets off my OCD. I would love to get it fixed if it wouldn’t cost a ton.
I have installed the barrel tuner from Aaron Hipp, and all i can say is “it works”, like in bullets holes touching at 100. Routinely see three shot groups below 0.2” now. Will do 5 shot groups soon.
Just something to be aware of: The original V1 DN3 brake is incompatible with the tuner. Not enough threads were grabbing onto the tuner. Most self timing and shimmer brakes and suppressors wil work though.
I contacted Phil at MPA and we worked out a deal to replace the V1 brake with the V2 brake, which fits perfectly. I am now using the V1 brake on another rifle.
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Groups first closed down to 0.2” as i turned the tuner, then opened up to about 0.4”, then closed down again to below 0.2”. Still need to do some fine tuning by moving the tuner in smaller increments. Shot off a bipod and a rear bag with another fidgety person on the other side of the integrated bench. My aiming error is likely 0.1”, and in the hands of a better shooter, and set up for free recoil, these groups probably would have looked even better.
You probably can achieve the same effects with powder charge and seating depth adjustment, but it is so much faster and more convenient. I have done load development at the bench a few times, but you have to cart a lot of gear with you. All you carry with you is one hex key.
For those that want to use factory ammo, this is a way to (almost) approach the same accuracy without needing to buy $2K worth of reloading kit. The same price as one good sizing die.
I should perhaps qualify the comment about the V1 vs. V2 brake:
The issue with the V1 is not that the number of threads is insufficient. The V1 nut shoulders up on the rifle. It works like a normal nut/bolt and tightens against the muzzle brake vs. the V2 which uses a reverse jam nut tightening against the shoulder.
Has anybody tried the 135 Atip 6.5 bullet or the 144 gn Berger in their 6.5 Creedmoor chambered MPA? The 135 worked well for me, have the 144 Berger on the shelf but still need to try it.
My chamber has very little freebore, looks to be close to min spec, and the rifle manual says not to use factory ammo with bullet weight above 140 grains to avoid a jam and high pressure, so decided to try the 135/140/144 gn range instead of the new high BC 147/153/156 gn bullets.
Do you guys also have a min spec chamber and short freebore?
What is the highest BC bullet that works well in this chamber?
My chamber has very little freebore, looks to be close to min spec, and the rifle manual says not to use factory ammo with bullet weight above 140 grains to avoid a jam and high pressure, so decided to try the 135/140/144 gn range instead of the new high BC 147/153/156 gn bullets.
Do you guys also have a min spec chamber and short freebore?
What is the highest BC bullet that works well in this chamber?
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Should be a fine rifle, i believe it uses a Curtis Axiom action minus the bolt fluting, right?
I am in to get my eyes on the feedback and how you like the PMR Pro as well. I am on the verge of handing over my credit card info, these things look awesome. I would love to hear some feedback on the folder/vs non-folding chassis, basic BA vs the BA PMR Pro, and if anyone would recommend dropping a custom B/A in vs going with the Curtis Axiom and MPA barrel.
I got quoted a custom build by 360Precision for under $3k w the MPA BA chassis, this is gonna be my 1st bolt gun.
I have the 6.5CM MPA BA, amazing rifle, consistent 5 shot 1/4 MOA, the rifle was so accurate at 100 yards, I had to take load development to 200 yards to really see the differences.
I don't have alot of pics, this is 200yds, I pulled my 4th of 5 shots, eyed drift, but this is repeatable accuracy, not a one off groups that you can't repeat. Granted my reloads are pretty good, my last Chrono of 10 rounds was AVG 2791, HI 2798, LO 2785, SD 4, ES 13
I don't have alot of pics, this is 200yds, I pulled my 4th of 5 shots, eyed drift, but this is repeatable accuracy, not a one off groups that you can't repeat. Granted my reloads are pretty good, my last Chrono of 10 rounds was AVG 2791, HI 2798, LO 2785, SD 4, ES 13
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Thanks for the input! Which MPA model did you go with? I’m really tempted by the MPA 5.6BA with Curtis axiom action.
Awesome man, I’m someone in the same boat. I have a few hunting rifles but nothing built for precision and long range shooting. I am curious what action/barrel/ trigger they dropped in the chassis?
defiance tenacity action, mullerworks barrel, triggertech trigger, mpa ba chassis =build is under $3k
What are you thoughts guys on buying the chassis and finding like a bighorn or defiance barreled action and dropping it in vs going full MPA build? Any savings to be had for same or better quality? Looks like chassis are going for 600-800 bucks, and decent B/As are getting sold on here in the 1200-1500 dollar range, and with a 200 dollar trigger I'm seeing the build costing 2k-2.5k vs buying the full MPA builds for 2800. Any input is greatly appreciated! I wanna make sure my dollar is stretching as far as it can and being spent wisely on my first build/buy.
MPA BA was my first chassis gun and i love it! Best 5 shot groups so far have been under 0.2” at 100 with handloaded ammo: Hornady Atips and Berger 140 Hybrids (6.5 CM) in fully prepped neck turned Lapua brass (yep the full OCD treatment, but not saying that was actually needed!)
So for me the MPA/Spencer barrel was remarkably accurate. I often see 1” groups at 300, in the wind, and very happy with that. Superb “bang for the buck”!
Not sure if this applies to all calibers, but at least for the 6.5BA i have observed the following: Apparently MPA cuts a (close to) min spec chamber for improved accuracy with factory Hornady 140 gn Match ammo (5 thou jump when new), and yes the cheap-ish factory Hornady ammo delivered 5 shot groups below 0.4” in my less than expert hands. Often around 0.3”. Amazing that factory ammo can do this well, so MPA achieved their goal of putting an affordable chassis gun in the hands of new PRS shooters who don’t reload. Well done to MPA for building “the best PRS rifle for the competitor who is on a budget”. Btw: Berger 140 factory ammo did even better.
But that min spec chamber means pressure arrives a little earlier and max speed is perhaps 30-40 fps lower than factory rifles with sloppy chambers, like my Savage 12. Not a bad compromise, and high bullet speed is overrated anyway, so just something to be aware of.
Also freebore is relatively short (to shoot the 140 gn Hornady ELDM well via a small jump in the 6.5 CM), so you cannot practically load the heaviest longest high BC bullets (like the 153/156 gn offerings in 6.5 mm) without the bullet sitting very deep in the case, taking up a lot of powder capacity and losing you more speed, and the bearing surface of the bullet is going way past the neck shoulder junction, where eventually you will likely have a microscopic donut developing. Unless you neck turn with an inside cutter like the K&M tool. [I neck turn mostly for donut prevention. But at least when the barrel is halfway through it’s life i can switch from 140’s to 150’s and still have small jump.]
So if you are on a budget (and who isn’t in these strange days), and intend to use Hornady factory 140 gn ammo, and never reload, i think their turnkey gun is perfect, and it comes with a 3/8’ths MOA guarantee, which they will honor. Phil is a good man and will take care of problems.
For the reloader with infinite budget: If you are a skilled reloader with all the gear, so budget is already blown and you are still married, and want to run the latest and greatest high BC bullets to gain that last 3% of advantage on a windy day, then a custom barrel like a Bartlein with a faster twist rate (0.5 lower than the standard MPA offering), and chambered for the freebore you need might actually be the better option. Bartleins tend to be faster barrels as well, and is usually very accurate. Bartlein has also developed a new barrel steel alloy that is claimed to last 1.5 to 2x longer than stainless, which is quite soft. But this is not MPA’s core market and this is definitely NOT going to be a budget build! Then you can just as well look at other chassis options too. [Horses for courses argument.]
Buying second hand: People tend to sell rifles that don’t shoot so well and hang on the good ones, and the second hand market does not come with a MOA or round count guarantee. So you might pay $300 less for a barreled action “with only 200 rounds through it” that needs to be replaced fairly soon. Or right away because it shoots 1.2” groups.
I have the folder chassis, but next time i would pick the non-folding option. Convenient to swing the but stock out of the way during cleaning (don’t have to mess with the hight adjustment), but the set screw to keep it all tight digs into the soft aluminum and loosens over time. Groups open up if there is enough play in the folding mechanism, so you have to adjust it quite frequently. Not the end of the world, easy to deal with, but just something else to consider.
So for me the MPA/Spencer barrel was remarkably accurate. I often see 1” groups at 300, in the wind, and very happy with that. Superb “bang for the buck”!
Not sure if this applies to all calibers, but at least for the 6.5BA i have observed the following: Apparently MPA cuts a (close to) min spec chamber for improved accuracy with factory Hornady 140 gn Match ammo (5 thou jump when new), and yes the cheap-ish factory Hornady ammo delivered 5 shot groups below 0.4” in my less than expert hands. Often around 0.3”. Amazing that factory ammo can do this well, so MPA achieved their goal of putting an affordable chassis gun in the hands of new PRS shooters who don’t reload. Well done to MPA for building “the best PRS rifle for the competitor who is on a budget”. Btw: Berger 140 factory ammo did even better.
But that min spec chamber means pressure arrives a little earlier and max speed is perhaps 30-40 fps lower than factory rifles with sloppy chambers, like my Savage 12. Not a bad compromise, and high bullet speed is overrated anyway, so just something to be aware of.
Also freebore is relatively short (to shoot the 140 gn Hornady ELDM well via a small jump in the 6.5 CM), so you cannot practically load the heaviest longest high BC bullets (like the 153/156 gn offerings in 6.5 mm) without the bullet sitting very deep in the case, taking up a lot of powder capacity and losing you more speed, and the bearing surface of the bullet is going way past the neck shoulder junction, where eventually you will likely have a microscopic donut developing. Unless you neck turn with an inside cutter like the K&M tool. [I neck turn mostly for donut prevention. But at least when the barrel is halfway through it’s life i can switch from 140’s to 150’s and still have small jump.]
So if you are on a budget (and who isn’t in these strange days), and intend to use Hornady factory 140 gn ammo, and never reload, i think their turnkey gun is perfect, and it comes with a 3/8’ths MOA guarantee, which they will honor. Phil is a good man and will take care of problems.
For the reloader with infinite budget: If you are a skilled reloader with all the gear, so budget is already blown and you are still married, and want to run the latest and greatest high BC bullets to gain that last 3% of advantage on a windy day, then a custom barrel like a Bartlein with a faster twist rate (0.5 lower than the standard MPA offering), and chambered for the freebore you need might actually be the better option. Bartleins tend to be faster barrels as well, and is usually very accurate. Bartlein has also developed a new barrel steel alloy that is claimed to last 1.5 to 2x longer than stainless, which is quite soft. But this is not MPA’s core market and this is definitely NOT going to be a budget build! Then you can just as well look at other chassis options too. [Horses for courses argument.]
Buying second hand: People tend to sell rifles that don’t shoot so well and hang on the good ones, and the second hand market does not come with a MOA or round count guarantee. So you might pay $300 less for a barreled action “with only 200 rounds through it” that needs to be replaced fairly soon. Or right away because it shoots 1.2” groups.
I have the folder chassis, but next time i would pick the non-folding option. Convenient to swing the but stock out of the way during cleaning (don’t have to mess with the hight adjustment), but the set screw to keep it all tight digs into the soft aluminum and loosens over time. Groups open up if there is enough play in the folding mechanism, so you have to adjust it quite frequently. Not the end of the world, easy to deal with, but just something else to consider.
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Btw: On caliber choice in a chassis bolt gun: The 6 mm options are now dominating PRS and 6.5 has disappeared, but the 22 options are also starting to emerge in PRS now.
The argument for shooting smaller caliber and lighter bullets: Low recoil, less muzzle jump, less disturbance to sight picture, back on target more quickly, so you can shoot faster and score higher. Shooter also does not tire out so quickly. Downside is more wind drift.
If you prefer to shoot a 22 caliber rifle competitively, there are probably better ballistic options available than the 223Rem that will yield better speed when shooting the long and heavy high BC bullets and still give adequate barrel life.... That 223 case is a just little too small, and more efficient designs exist today.
But a 223 makes a very good trainer due to the low cost of the round. NOT meaning to insult the 223 Rem/ 5.56 Nato, which is a good choice in a battle gun!
The argument for shooting smaller caliber and lighter bullets: Low recoil, less muzzle jump, less disturbance to sight picture, back on target more quickly, so you can shoot faster and score higher. Shooter also does not tire out so quickly. Downside is more wind drift.
If you prefer to shoot a 22 caliber rifle competitively, there are probably better ballistic options available than the 223Rem that will yield better speed when shooting the long and heavy high BC bullets and still give adequate barrel life.... That 223 case is a just little too small, and more efficient designs exist today.
But a 223 makes a very good trainer due to the low cost of the round. NOT meaning to insult the 223 Rem/ 5.56 Nato, which is a good choice in a battle gun!
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Quick question for the MPA 6.5 BA Creedmoor owners out there:
Have you guys tried the Berger 140 Hybrid factory ammo? How does it shoot? Do you see pierced primers? What speed are you getting?
Shot two boxes of ammo yesterday in the MPA, at 99 degree temperature, i had good accuracy, around 0.25-0.4” at 100 yards, and about 2820 to 2825 fps from a 26” barrel. Very impressive for factory ammo. But: Two out of 40 rounds had pierced primers. Same as last time. Is the round loaded too hot for high ambient temps?
I have contacted Greg Tannel at Gretan Rifles who informed me the Curtis Axiom/MPA rifles have the small firing pin installed and does not need to be bushed.
Any other suggestions? Take a cooler box to the range with ice packs, and keep the ammo near near freezing? That will guarantee a few funny looks........ Disassemble it and load it 0.3 grain lower?
Have you guys tried the Berger 140 Hybrid factory ammo? How does it shoot? Do you see pierced primers? What speed are you getting?
Shot two boxes of ammo yesterday in the MPA, at 99 degree temperature, i had good accuracy, around 0.25-0.4” at 100 yards, and about 2820 to 2825 fps from a 26” barrel. Very impressive for factory ammo. But: Two out of 40 rounds had pierced primers. Same as last time. Is the round loaded too hot for high ambient temps?
I have contacted Greg Tannel at Gretan Rifles who informed me the Curtis Axiom/MPA rifles have the small firing pin installed and does not need to be bushed.
Any other suggestions? Take a cooler box to the range with ice packs, and keep the ammo near near freezing? That will guarantee a few funny looks........
Disassemble it and load it 0.3 grain lower?Total of 60 rounds fired through three different rifles on the same same day, by three different shooters, and the rifles are allowed to cool down when the temp strip on the barrel reaches 120 F: Savage 12, Remington 700, MPA BA. Only the MPA pieced primers (not many, typically 2-3 per box of 20).
Could it be caused by the tighter than usual chamber? The bullets don’t seem to be jammed, as there are no marks on the bullets if you chamber and then extract without firing.
Could it be caused by the tighter than usual chamber? The bullets don’t seem to be jammed, as there are no marks on the bullets if you chamber and then extract without firing.
Might have one possible explanation for the two blown primers: At least one of the once fired FL sized cases had a length of 1.390” post FL sizing via the Whidden non-bushing sizer, which usually adds 6-7 thou to case length. That makes me think this particular cartridge came from the Berger factory ammo line at 1.300”, which is 10 thou over the max spec. Unless something weird happened during sizing, which is always a possibility... and maybe it was contacting a minor carbon ring. However, I do intensively scrub that area of the chamber about every 100 rounds.
Anybody tried this ammo in an MPA BA?
Maybe i should measure case length before firing for the next batch.
Anybody tried this ammo in an MPA BA?
Maybe i should measure case length before firing for the next batch.
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Yes ... but: I bought mine a year ago, one of the early ones, shipped tightly curled up in the little case they provide. When they sent out the warning not to roll it so tight because that causes failure, i tossed the bag and put it in a large drawer (25”). Worked fine for a year and then it died. They are shipping me a new one under warranty, but it has not arrived yet. Glad to see they honor their extended warranty.
My advice: If you see any black (dead) lines on the screen, or intermittent failure to connect to the USB port, it is time to ask for a replacement. Before your two year warranty expires.
When it arrives, i will go check for a carbon ring. Chamber was scrubbed 3 weeks ago the last time. Maybe 100 rounds since then. There are always carbon deposits in that area when i check it with the bore scope.... i guess it al depends how thick the accumulation is.
Btw: End of chamber was measured at 1.943” with the soft steel Sinclair tool. Found a second super long case in the batch of 60, so a total of two so far. Had two blown primers....
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Bore scope arrived: Carbon deposits are very minor, doubt that was the cause. Scrubbed it out just in case.
Me think we are dealing with soft and weak primers here....
Me think we are dealing with soft and weak primers here....
I'd appreciate any insight you fellow PMR owners might offer in this thread I started. I really, really like the rifle. It's gorgeous and shoots everything well so far.
