Just looking for some real world feedback on MSR reticle users. It seems to be a decent choice to me. This will be my first FFP scope and first "venture" into the long distance shooting scene, so I want to get something that is pretty well rounded and robust, as this is what I will be learning on. Obviously I am limited to S&B, Steiner, or Kahles, so any feedback on the respective models from each manufacture is also a plus, as I cannot try before I buy. This will be a completely sight unseen purchase. I am more concerned about durability than glass quality from these manufacturers, as the rifle the optic will be on will get abused on an almost regular basis, and the glass quality is great from what I have seen from all 3 manufacturers. Any opinions or insight is greatly appreciated!
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Rifle Scopes Any Negatives to the MSR reticle?
- Thread starter brennon272
- Start date
I have a Schmidt PM2 Ultra Short with the MSR on my gas gun. It was used when I got it and I haven’t had it long. It held up to rain and cold for me at a recent match, though. I haven’t dropped it or clubbed a bear to death with it or anything stressful like that, so maybe someone else can have more info on the durability.
I’m getting another Schmidt on my bolt gun but with a windage tree so I can hold over more accurately with wind instead of dialing for every target range on a stage. I’m just a target shooter at known ranges, and the rapid ranging feature of the msr is designed for human targets, so I don’t know if it would work for hunting. But I like knowing I have it just in case SHTF.
I’m getting another Schmidt on my bolt gun but with a windage tree so I can hold over more accurately with wind instead of dialing for every target range on a stage. I’m just a target shooter at known ranges, and the rapid ranging feature of the msr is designed for human targets, so I don’t know if it would work for hunting. But I like knowing I have it just in case SHTF.
I love the MSR. I like the MSR2 even more. My biggest complaint is the aiming point is a bit cluttered. I wish the floating dot was more open but you get used to it. I think it is the perfect reticle for law enforcement.
I have a Schmidt & Bender PM2 5-25x56 with the MSR reticle. I have had it for just over 2 years and it is a great scope and a great reticle. My main type of competition is fieldshooting which around here means that all targets are set at an unknown distance. Before you shoot, you have to mill the target or targets with the reticle (LRFs are not allowed) do your calculations and get ready in 2 minutes, then we have between 25-40 seconds to shoot six shots at one or sometimes three shots each at 2 separate targets. The finelined "ruler" in the bottom left half of the MSR reticle is AWESOME for this, and it has helped me a lot.
My scope has been used in temperatures between -27 to +35 degrees celsius with no complaints at all.
My scope has been used in temperatures between -27 to +35 degrees celsius with no complaints at all.
Know the MSR ret in the Kahles in different to S&B & Steiner. They opted for a floating dot from the offset.
I have a PM2 5-25 MSR and love it. However if I were getting new I would get the MSR2.
Steiner wasn’t on my radar. But the kahles has better turrets and illumination. I really like the parallax on the Kahles too. That said, S&B glass won the day for me, I also wanted the LT/MTC variant.
I have a PM2 5-25 MSR and love it. However if I were getting new I would get the MSR2.
Steiner wasn’t on my radar. But the kahles has better turrets and illumination. I really like the parallax on the Kahles too. That said, S&B glass won the day for me, I also wanted the LT/MTC variant.
I do not currently have an optic with the MSR but have used a few in the past so here’s my take.
I loved it and as of late 2017, I had planned to base all of my following optic purchases on the MSR reticle wether it be Steiner, S&B, or Kahles. It’s a damn good reticle with only a few drawbacks that were greatly improved upon with the MSR2 which ultimately swayed me away from the MSR and delayed my optic purchases by a year.
I’ve had a pair of M7Xi 4-28x56’s and a M5Xi 5-25x56, all with the MSR2 for the last few months. In my opinion, the MSR2 is the most useable reticle for range estimation, quick engagements, and accurate follow up shots at UKD from closer ranges out to ELR/ULR distances while still providing a surprisingly unobstructed FOV. The .2 windage hash marks for the first mil left or right of center are extremely useful. The floating center dot povides an excellent aim point that draws your eye to center but never seems to be obtrusive or too fine for any target at any distance I’ve shot or glassed over, out to 3 miles. Every 10th mil down the vertical stadia below center gives you another floating dot and 3-5 mils of windage holds which I think is an excellent feature for ELR without the clutter of a tree. The vertical stadia ends 3 mils above center and provides a much less obstructive FOV while still providing a floating dot and horizontal hash for 5, 10, and 20 mil hold under. The inverted milling “L” and rapid ranging stadia provides excellent ranging capabilities. Only thing I would change is adding additional rapid ranging stadia out to 1,500 meters. Other than that small detail which is certainly not a hindrance, it’s all that I need and nothing that I don’t.
I came from using the EBR-2C across bolt rifle platforms and loved it but definitely don’t feel as if I need the tree reticle and quickly grew to really appreciate the simplicity of the MSR/MSR2 as I learned its vast capabilities. With all that being said, I would not hesitate to buy a scope with the MSR unless I had equal opportunity for the same scope with MSR2. Then I would chose MSR2, hands down.
As far as durability goes, all 3 of the Steiner M series have performed flawlessly. Bouncing around the back floorboard or the bed of my truck, day after day. Tracking and RTZ have been dead on every time. The reasons I chose Steiner M series was for their history of solid mechanical reliability, turrets, and MSR/MSR2 reticle availability.
You said you don’t care about glass quality between the three so I won’t get into that, although, you need be aware they all have excellent optical quality but all slightly different in their own ways. All 3 manufacturers are exceptional performers and I wouldn’t hesitate against S&B or Kahles however, I gravitated toward Steiner due to past experiences, features, and the inception of the M7Xi which is a huge improvement over the M5Xi in every single way. Very glad I did, I’ve been extremely pleased.
I loved it and as of late 2017, I had planned to base all of my following optic purchases on the MSR reticle wether it be Steiner, S&B, or Kahles. It’s a damn good reticle with only a few drawbacks that were greatly improved upon with the MSR2 which ultimately swayed me away from the MSR and delayed my optic purchases by a year.
I’ve had a pair of M7Xi 4-28x56’s and a M5Xi 5-25x56, all with the MSR2 for the last few months. In my opinion, the MSR2 is the most useable reticle for range estimation, quick engagements, and accurate follow up shots at UKD from closer ranges out to ELR/ULR distances while still providing a surprisingly unobstructed FOV. The .2 windage hash marks for the first mil left or right of center are extremely useful. The floating center dot povides an excellent aim point that draws your eye to center but never seems to be obtrusive or too fine for any target at any distance I’ve shot or glassed over, out to 3 miles. Every 10th mil down the vertical stadia below center gives you another floating dot and 3-5 mils of windage holds which I think is an excellent feature for ELR without the clutter of a tree. The vertical stadia ends 3 mils above center and provides a much less obstructive FOV while still providing a floating dot and horizontal hash for 5, 10, and 20 mil hold under. The inverted milling “L” and rapid ranging stadia provides excellent ranging capabilities. Only thing I would change is adding additional rapid ranging stadia out to 1,500 meters. Other than that small detail which is certainly not a hindrance, it’s all that I need and nothing that I don’t.
I came from using the EBR-2C across bolt rifle platforms and loved it but definitely don’t feel as if I need the tree reticle and quickly grew to really appreciate the simplicity of the MSR/MSR2 as I learned its vast capabilities. With all that being said, I would not hesitate to buy a scope with the MSR unless I had equal opportunity for the same scope with MSR2. Then I would chose MSR2, hands down.
As far as durability goes, all 3 of the Steiner M series have performed flawlessly. Bouncing around the back floorboard or the bed of my truck, day after day. Tracking and RTZ have been dead on every time. The reasons I chose Steiner M series was for their history of solid mechanical reliability, turrets, and MSR/MSR2 reticle availability.
You said you don’t care about glass quality between the three so I won’t get into that, although, you need be aware they all have excellent optical quality but all slightly different in their own ways. All 3 manufacturers are exceptional performers and I wouldn’t hesitate against S&B or Kahles however, I gravitated toward Steiner due to past experiences, features, and the inception of the M7Xi which is a huge improvement over the M5Xi in every single way. Very glad I did, I’ve been extremely pleased.
I have a Steiner M5 with MSR reticle (now on the wife's rifle) and a Khales with MSR-K on my TacOps XRay-51.
I think the MSR is a great reticle. I prefer the MSR-K to the MSR (K has floating dot), and it looks the MSR2 reticle also has a floating dot. For general purpose shooting, I think it's a reticle that would be hard to beat. For PRS/NRL matches I've come to prefer the SKMR3 for the christmas tree holdovers (no dial stages, or stages that it's more advantageous for speed to holdover), but not having that christmas tree style reticle is not a huge disadvantage, IMO.
Overall, hard to go wrong with the MSR. Its simple, but has All those scope brands are great. The Steiner M series is really underrated BTW. The resolution of the glass on the M5 is slightly better than the K624i, not sure what difference there is in glass between the newer Steiner and Khales models. Reliability on both is great. And obviously S&B has a great reputation.
All around, hard to go wrong with the MSR reticle, or any of the scope brands you are looking at. Great choices for your first FFP optic.
I think the MSR is a great reticle. I prefer the MSR-K to the MSR (K has floating dot), and it looks the MSR2 reticle also has a floating dot. For general purpose shooting, I think it's a reticle that would be hard to beat. For PRS/NRL matches I've come to prefer the SKMR3 for the christmas tree holdovers (no dial stages, or stages that it's more advantageous for speed to holdover), but not having that christmas tree style reticle is not a huge disadvantage, IMO.
Overall, hard to go wrong with the MSR. Its simple, but has All those scope brands are great. The Steiner M series is really underrated BTW. The resolution of the glass on the M5 is slightly better than the K624i, not sure what difference there is in glass between the newer Steiner and Khales models. Reliability on both is great. And obviously S&B has a great reputation.
All around, hard to go wrong with the MSR reticle, or any of the scope brands you are looking at. Great choices for your first FFP optic.
If anyone is looking for a Kahles K525i LSW with the MSR2 we have one A List factory demo in stock.
Give me a call if you're interested
Give me a call if you're interested
The only downside to the MSR is that we now have the MSR2! The only issue I ever had with the MSR is that it can cover small targets in the very center of the reticle. Only a problem when using small dots on paper... I've got the Steiner scopes and they are great, repeatable, reliable scopes. My buddy has the Kahles with the MSR-K and it is a tad better due to the floating center as mentioned above. If you plan to do any ranging with your scope, the MSR is as good as it gets. Reticle choice should be the most important factor and the MSR is available in 3 great options so pick your Ford/Chevy/Dodge and go have some fun with it. You won't be disappointed.
For small dots on paper or trying to shoot groups with an MSR, you can use the finer cross on the milling L.
This most likely varies by scope though in regards to optical quality further out from the centre.
didn't make much of a difference for me when I experimented with a 3-20US.
All up the MSR is very nice in the 3-20US and useable at all magnification.
I love mine. Minor downside is that the reticles are somewhat thick. I wouldn't mind picking up another scope with the newer MSR2, which I think is even better.
I've got one of the new M7 4-28 with the MSR2 and it is the bomb. The center solved the only nitpick item I had with the original MSR.
I had a 5-25 M5 with MSR. I felt the reticle got a little thick at max magnification. I have a M7 with the MSR2 and it is about perfect with the floating center dot.
^^^^^This. Hard to hold edge of smaller targets. Otherwise I liked it. Shooting Kahles with SKMR3 now.
There was a used Schmidt US with msr in the for sale section. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/sb-pmii-5-20-ultra-short.6942423/#post-7730691
I also have a Kahles with a SKMR3 and an M7xi with an MSR2 and I slightly prefer the SKMR due to it being slightly thinner. The dot size is (IIRC) .036 in the SKMR and .04 in the MSR2 and it’s noticeable to me.
This all being said its not a dealbreaker for me, I just go up and over a mil and use the fine crosshairs that’s in every ‘corner’ of the scope if I feel the need.
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