Any Plumbers on the 'Hide?

[mahlv]

Disputing the CC charge may be the only hope. Worst case is they will have to work for the money a little harder, as in my experience with that on the contractor end is that the CC processor immediately refunds the customer and debits the amount from the company. There follows a disputing phase where they plead their case, so you need to have your info/ducks/shit in line when you dispute the charge.
Sucks there are so many of these master baiter companies out there and there's almost nothing to be done to regulate that kind of operating principles.

 

[kthomas]

Disputing the CC charge may be the only hope. Worst case is they will have to work for the money a little harder, as in my experience with that on the contractor end is that the CC processor immediately refunds the customer and debits the amount from the company. There follows a disputing phase where they plead their case, so you need to have your info/ducks/shit in line when you dispute the charge.
Sucks there are so many of these master baiter companies out there and there's almost nothing to be done to regulate that kind of operating principles.

This is already in process. I have a ~1500 word document that I typed up that outlines the whole situation, including dates, names and times and what exactly occurred and what was said. I also have pictures of the tree damage and driveway damage. This will all be going to the credit card company as part of the dispute, and will keep as a record in the event we go to small claims court.

My wife's best friend is a lawyer, and she is drafting up a document to send to the plumbing contractor. Her friend says that this document will help us if we go to small claims court, judges love seeing that we at least attempted to work with the contractor to resolve the situation (which we did attempt), and this document that will be sent to the plumbing contractor will act as further proof of us attempting to work with the contract to try and get the situation resolved. My wife's lawyer friend loves doing this stuff, so I'm sure it's going to be good ammo.

I'm all for treating and respecting companies and contractors as the professionals that they should be, but as soon as you start blatantly fucking with me, then it's game on.

 

[kthomas]

They offered a service they could argue in their opinion you needed. How ever shady that is, I don't think you have any recourse unless you can get them to admit they knew the work they were doing would not fix your problem. Otherwise it will be, we offered, he accepted, we did it. IT didn't fix it, oops so sorry. In our professional opinion we thought it would.

If you can find multiple place that do it considerably cheaper, you might get the charge reduced by a small claims court. You might not have to go to court. Get some quotes on what they did, if its way cheaper at a bunch of other places you may be able to get it reduced to a reasonable cost by them, by threatening to go to small claims court.

Just guessing, I am as much lawyer as plumber. I guess I have practiced more plumbing, but watched more small claims court TV.

That's kind of how the office manager was trying to spin it at me, but there's so many lies and contradictions in their story that I believe I can make a more then compelling enough case.

 

[jakelly]

Don’t chalk anything up to a learning experience here, that’s why these guys exist in the first place. It’s time to learn how to sue people. Like Edward Norton said, “You f@&ked with the wrong bull.” Let your friend help you out and smash them. Mark the trail so others know.

 

[TheGerman]

Ok, I agree they're shysters.

However, the tricky part with trying to get your money back/refund it, is that they told you what a service cost (even though it was most likely bullshit)m you agreed and they did it, albeit how well, no one knows.

The real red flags for me would have been, why was plan A not sticking a camera down? And secondly, when assholes start telling me that we'll do 1 expensive thing and if that doesn't work, there's another exponentially more expensive thing.

Also, take pictures of your driveway and tree if they are damaged. Use that as leverage/counter.

 

[OneMoreNoMore]

Having to deal with chargebacks I can tell you no matter how compelling of a case I’ve had as a merchant I have never been able to fight one off. So that being said I feel pretty good that the CC company will refund your money, they have no problem screwing over businesses no matter if they are in the right or wrong. CC companies actually make more money by processing chargebacks so it’s a business center for them to do so. The merchant will have to not only have the funds removed from their account they will also have to pay all the processing fees.

This reminds me of a similar situation when one of the locations needed hvac repair. They called xyz company and they came out and found several units low on refrigerant. One unit they put over $800 of freon in, which was the max capacity of the unit ( I wanna say 10lbs ) which was running at the time just not cooling very well. I had another hvac company ( very good friend ) look at the unit days later after it wasn’t cooling still and found a loose thermostat wire that was making the air handler turn on. First question he asked is why would someone put almost $1k of gas in a unit and not leak check it. Which then leads to the question did they ever put gas in it and how much really. I disputed the charge in those grounds and the company agreed.

My friend that has his own company said when he first moved into the area that he looked into working for one of the bigger outfits but they wanted their techs to basically lie about what was wrong with their clients equipment so they could charge more and if they did they would get their flat rate pay plus a commission of what they sold them on.

 

[ZiaHunter]

PM on large construction projects with skilled trades. The plumbers on my jobs know their shit and get the job done. Done a fair amount of plumbing and pipe fitting over the years including in the oil field. Most residential plumbers I been around I wouldn't let fix a leaking faucet. If they were worth a shit they would be working commercial. Cast iron pipe is a PITA and only used when fire stopping is required otherwise go with PVC. Replaced lots of collapsed, rotted or root penetrated cast iron over the years including at my house.

 

[mahlv]

I’ve had as a merchant I have never been able to fight one off.

Its not hard to fight them off especially when the customer/card holder is blatantly lying and just trying to be a turd. I recently was successful getting my money back from a screaming restaraunt owner asshole. It was a glorious day, only $800ish bucks, but it's the principle. Best part of it was that the actual owner of the property would have covered the whole charge from the beginning, but this card holder was such a dick he never realized it.

 

[mahlv]

One other thing, all you guys thinking that the camera should be the first thing down the line are up in the night. If the pipe is full of shit/water/whatever, you're not going to see a dam thing. The line must be clear, otherwise, your only advantage to running the cam down is that you can locate it with a remote receiver.

 

[Jgunner]

Plumbers are stupid as fuck and rip off artists, much like ac and roof people.
I own a small business doing all sorts of home repairs. Most of the time i have to tell trades how to do their job. I have done most trades when i worked for big companies. So i am in the know.


i am in Phoenix, i could prob come down there and replace the p-trap for the washing machine line and the t where the vent is for less than those idiots charge to screw up more stuff.

I ALWAYS get a camera guy out FIRST. $250 bucks. They will tell me all i need to know. Cast iron doesn’t last in Az for shit, not sure why, but i have replaced tons of it and repaired just as much. I will tell you its only a matter of time before it all fails, so it’s best to replace when something major happens, but this sounds minor.

many times i am replacing a bathtub or kitchen sink drain and find severe issues needing to be addressed immediately. Always galvie/cast iron. Occasionally copper drains. Its from idiots using draino 98% of the time. I have seen toilets/tubs and kitchen lines just draining into the soil under the slab because there is no pipe left. It causes foundation settling and can really screw stuff up.

If you want my number pm me. I can give you advice or if need be i can come way down there. Will work for primers

 

[ZiaHunter]

Replacing CI lines under a slab can be very challenging especially with PT slabs. Cut a cable and all hell will break loose. Needed to replace a collapsed line for the kitchen, laundry room which ran under the slab. X-rayed the slab to locate PT cables and then saw cut and demo'd checker board avoiding the cable to the continuous footing. Hand dug trench and installed new PVC exiting under footing and running to septic tank. The good thing was we has enough invert to provide proper slope.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I keep a Rigid bore camera in the trucks, tell the guys to always keep client informed.
Show them everything we do, if they want to know.
To me, those little beasties paid for themselves ages ago, no additional cost for anything on plant vehicle, as it's part of unit price.
Some fuckers keep recorded files from other jobs, and give you a copy of that with changed date stamp, to justify their fraud.
Bastards.
Our company has a set unit price, regardless of equipment used.
My view is, you are essentially paying for a trained and experienced operator.
As such, he can quickly assess a situation and then use his equipment and skills to resolve an issue.
Too many companies out there have additional loadings for using additional equipment.
We have specialist gear that can be brought to site, but that is negotiated and accepted by customer before hand.
Often, if it's relatively close job, and second operator was already coming from a previous job, or doing fuckall in yard, we'll just charge for the one vehicle.
We get results, and have lots of return customers.
A good reputation is worth more than robbing some poor fucker blind.

 

[kthomas]

Replacing CI lines under a slab can be very challenging especially with PT slabs. Cut a cable and all hell will break loose. Needed to replace a collapsed line for the kitchen, laundry room which ran under the slab. X-rayed the slab to locate PT cables and then saw cut and demo'd checker board avoiding the cable to the continuous footing. Hand dug trench and installed new PVC exiting under footing and running to septic tank. The good thing was we has enough invert to provide proper slope.

The last plumber (who was actually a solid dude not trying to fuck me) was telling me about that

Thankfully I don't think they were using PT slabs when my house was built in 1973...

 

[Jgunner]

Replacing CI lines under a slab can be very challenging especially with PT slabs. Cut a cable and all hell will break loose. Needed to replace a collapsed line for the kitchen, laundry room which ran under the slab. X-rayed the slab to locate PT cables and then saw cut and demo'd checker board avoiding the cable to the continuous footing. Hand dug trench and installed new PVC exiting under footing and running to septic tank. The good thing was we has enough invert to provide proper slope.

Pretty much never find pt slabs and cast iron here in az. Pt is new, cast is old.

 

[Marinevet1]

we have bore scopes available for rifle barrels, these plumbers don't have a bore scope for pipes? maybe i missed that bit.
maybe i'm wrong cause i ain't a plumber, but i'd put eyes down the pipes first to see what the problem is before chucking other shit down there that could cause more problems. maybe its out of sight out of mind for these shit kickers.
blocked pipes here, we use drain-o. usually works if no tree roots in the way or the kids haven't flushed elmo down the shitter.

Pretty much never find pt slabs and cast iron here in az. Pt is new, cast is old.

I'm not a plumber, I am an industrial maintenance supervisor..........chillers, boilers. compressors, pumps,RO water systems, air handlers, waste water treatment, fire alarm/sprinklers, security systems.........and so much other shit I can't remember until someone ask me about it..........I use a plumber that has drain cameras, and they are damn good cameras. You can see a fucking tampon flushed down the shitter a day ago if that is the problem. I am pretty sure that my plumber is not the only one that uses the cameras.......

 

[TheBigCountry]

I wish you luck man. There’s a lot of freakin boneheads out there in the Sevice world. I just had a customer who got ripped off, not as bad as you did, by some clowns, and it hit me right in the feels (lady was an old widow who just lost her husband and they took full advantage of her). When I hear stuff like this, it just makes me shake my damn head. Hopefully they make it right for you.

 

[Jgunner]

I'm not a plumber, I am an industrial maintenance supervisor..........chillers, boilers. compressors, pumps,RO water systems, air handlers, waste water treatment, fire alarm/sprinklers, security systems.........and so much other shit I can't remember until someone ask me about it..........I use a plumber that has drain cameras, and they are damn good cameras. You can see a fucking tampon flushed down the shitter a day ago if that is the problem. I am pretty sure that my plumber is not the only one that uses the cameras.......

I use a location service, not a plumber. Then there is nothing to hide. They mark it out and say the actual issue. Plumber fixes that. Its a good system, keeps em honest.

 

[Gommer]

You’re probably screwed, it’s buyer beware. You hired them to do a service and said service was provided.

If you file a chargeback, and are successful, don’t be surprised if you find yourself with criminal charges.

You can spend a few bucks filing a civil suit against the guy. No lawyer needed. Not sure what you’d argue but you could get lucky and him not show and default.

If his idiot kid in any way damaged property, you could file for that. You might also pop him on using your water and hoses, or just piss off the judge.


Leave him appropriate and factually correct reviews is your best bet. Costing him customers for years to come will hurt him way more than a couple thousand bucks.

You can always ask a local lawyer, though. Consults are usually free and sometimes a threatening letter with a lawyer on the header is enough to get results.

 

[kthomas]

You’re probably screwed, it’s buyer beware. You hired them to do a service and said service was provided.

If you file a chargeback, and are successful, don’t be surprised if you find yourself with criminal charges.

You can spend a few bucks filing a civil suit against the guy. No lawyer needed. Not sure what you’d argue but you could get lucky and him not show and default.

If his idiot kid in any way damaged property, you could file for that. You might also pop him on using your water and hoses, or just piss off the judge.


Leave him appropriate and factually correct reviews is your best bet. Costing him customers for years to come will hurt him way more than a couple thousand bucks.

You can always ask a local lawyer, though. Consults are usually free and sometimes a threatening letter with a lawyer on the header is enough to get results.

My wife's best friend is a lawyer, she's been advising us throughout this situation. She's going to be drafting something up for us, and she says that we absolutely should take them to small claims court.

I'm also planning on giving bad reviews and filing with the BBB. However, there's an interesting thing with the reviews. One of my wife's friend works in TX for a plumbing company for their advertising, and they hired Yelp and immediately their reviews went from 3.5 stars to 5. Yelp and some other review companies bury the bad reviews, it's a service they provide and make money off of. So as much as we like to think bad reviews really hurt them, they don't as much as they should/we think.

 

[NoDopes]

This is why I will usually ignore good reviews and read through all the bad ones to see if they are just assholes or have valid complaints.
So many companies pay to have fake good reviews... I just don't trust them.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I saw your post about the plumbing issues you're having, and it sounds like you're really getting screwed over by that plumbing contractor. What a bummer, man.

Whatcha sellin?

 

[Partsunavailable]

If his pipes are still clogged. He's not worried about it. His wife will have killed him by now.

 

[cas6969]

Whatcha sellin?

We get to play SPAM bingo now. When will it come? Second post? Third? I can't wait!

 

[armorpl8chikn]

That contractor sounds like a real pain. The damage to your tree, the mess they left, and the crazy high prices they quoted you are major red flags. Good call on getting a second opinion from another plumber. $4500 for a chain knocker and $1800 for hydrojetting sounds way too steep. Hopefully, this new plumber will give you a more reasonable estimate. Hang in there, and hopefully, you'll get this sorted soon! By the way, I'm new here, but if you need any more help, just let me know.

We found another one!!!!

 

[n2ishun]

We get to play SPAM bingo now. When will it come? Second post? Third? I can't wait!

Howsabout......

32 minutes ago ?