Any regrets going custom?

[insectguy]

I read many threads about how people are just plain giddy about a custom rifle they've had built. But my question is-- has anyone here ever gotten a custom rifle, and then said, "meh."? (i.e., thought the extra $$ for the custom build didn't justify the costs).

I now have the opportunity to buy a top-tier custom rifle, but at nearly 4x the price. I was considering a stock 5r for about $1150, but now have a chance to buy a Short Action Custom rifle for $3700, plus shipping, transfer, bipod, rings and scope. That will pretty much wipe out all surplus funds I have.

I'm not asking if the custom is worth it, but only if there have been many "buyers remorse?". I plunked down the coin for a TRG 22 a couple of years back, and haven't looked back, so I have MY precedent.

What say ye?

 

[bohem]

My ONLY regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

If you have the opportunity to buy one of Mark's rifles you will not regret it, especially with no wait time. I have an AR15 from him that is just fantastic, I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[SuburbanHick]

My ONLY regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

I completely agree....should have done it sooner

 

[stingrayguy]

I have a few factory builds, as well as a few custom builds. I find myself grabbing the custom rifles for the range visits. You will love it!

 

[steve123]

I've never had good luck with stock rifles. I made the mistake of buying one again about 3 months ago, I should have known better.

Custom rifles brought my shooting to the next level.

 

[chainring]

I'm about two weeks from having my SAC in hand, but I already regret tricking out/having work done on about 5 Rem 700s BEFORE taking the plunge and ordering a rifle exactly to my spec. It would have cost less in the long run to just order what I wanted instead of trying to be satisfied with a twist rate/barrel profile/quality/etc. that just wasn't what I wanted.

You own a TRG, so you probably have a good idea of what you NEED, not just what you want. That would be one pitfall - ordering a custom as first rifle and basing it on how it looks/what others said rather than a refined set of personal preferences.

However, since you are looking at spending the money for a custom, make sure this rifle you are buying is EXACTLY what you want, or you'd be better off just putting in an order with Mark. It's easier to buy and sell a 5R than it is to buy and sell a $3700 custom. Get it as right as you can the first time.

All this from a guy who is a couple weeks away from getting his first custom bolt gun, so take it for what it's worth. This is just what I've learned from buying and selling firearms in general over the years.

 

[mikeltee]

If you are new in the game, most suggest shooting the barrel out of a stock 700 then build it up. The people that regret customs are the ones that use crooked smiths. Do your research on the smith before you send off parts and cash. A lot of people have been getting screwed lately by getting crap work to super long wait times. It's best to use a verified smith from here at the hide.

 

[Pusher591]

Especially if it's a Short Action Custom.... NO regrets!

 

[mwilkins]

I have sold all of my factory built long guns and have nothing but customs now (gassers and bolt). No regrets on spending a little more on them. Plus it is a good feeling especially when you get to see just about every step in the process being done for each of your builds. For instance, I stopped in on my smith last night to get a look at the progress of my current build. I got to check out the chamber job, the crown under the brake and clearances with go/no go gauges along with a couple of other items. Will pay him a visit in the next couple of days to check out the completed assembly work and then the duracoat work after that. Only problem is that each visit and seeing the progress just makes me more anxious to get it in my hands.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Knowing my own limited prowess, and having spent some time perusing the Savage Arms website, I seriously believe that pretty much all of my practical needs can be served well enough by one of the many choices they provide. My one exception is a custom, built more than a decade ago on a Savage 10FP action that has served as both a .260 and a .30BR. In the one case, I wanted a 28" .260 barrel, and in the other, I like the .30BR for FV250 Comps. If Savage could provide either from stock, I'd be just a happy with one of them.

In short, my satisfaction with the Savage factory items I own has consistently exceeded my own abilities to shoot with perfection. This assumes a reasonable capacity to tailor loads to match the barrels' needs. I could send the remainder of my lifetime trying to find accuracy shortcomings in the rifles themselves. They are well built and they work as advertised; at least as well as I can shoot them.

I do not suffer from custom rifle envy.

I own a considerable number of rifles now, about 1/3 of them Savages, with Rugers, a Remmy, a couple of Winnies, a Stag with a Model 6 Varmint upper, an RGQ practical carbine upper on the way, and a fair number of military surplus guns. They are all shooters, I am not a vintage collector. For me, shooting well requires no more than being able to defeat a given target in a respectable manner. Perfection is not a goal, and that's good, because it's also not a realistic option If I can't be sure I'll hit it, I'd rather not take the shot, and if I do shoot, odds are good it's a hit. More than that, I can live without.

Greg

 

[SuburbanHick]

My grandfather always told me its Indian....not the arrow.. then I thought... what if the arrow wasn't good....then I learned how to reload.... now the arrow is good..... my next thought??? What about the bow???? With a custom rifle from a good builder ( AO, SAC, LONG RIFLES)..... its not longer the bow.... the only possible issue left??? The Indian..... then there's no doubt left...

Moral of the story??? You will not reach your true potential as a shooter, if you can out shoot your boom stick....

 

[onethousandmeters]

Interesting replies from both ends of the spectrum. Food for thought, IMO.

 

[tylerw02]

I've had regret with customs. I've also had some that were real shooters.

I watched one custom (from a well-known builder who I won't name found here on the Hide who is held in the highest regard) suffer a catastrophic failure because, frankly, the attention to detail sucked. A round of factory ammunition was unable to be extracted when loaded. The rifle was designed to shoot that round. Forcing it pulled the round apart. Another guy with a factory Remington proved to be just as accurate in the field for less than 1/5 the price. Meanwhile, my GAP was shooting great.

I've also got a custom rifle on a custom action that prevented me from doing squat in a couple matches, failing to eject or failing to feed forcing me to break position each shot to manually load. Why? Just poor tolerance stacking, adding parts together that weren't designed to go together from the ground up. However, this is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned.

The absolutely finest rifles I've ever owned were factory rifles...an AI AE Mark III and AI AX. They shot well out of the box and were 100% reliable. The more you dick with stuff, the less functional it becomes.

So my suggestion is first a high-end factory gun, then a mass-produced custom. This way the resources have been applied to completely work the bugs out.

 

[SEREK82]

No regrets nothing beats having a rifle tailored to what you spec out and trust me it's worth it.

 

[T J]

My ONLY regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

.....

I agree with bohem here. I've spent a lot more time & money pricking around with factory rifles to get almost what I was after than I care to admit. Every factory rifle I have but one (out of a dozen or so) has been stripped & rebuilt due to something I didn't like about it.

No more factory rifles for me (unless bought as a donor or too good of a price to pass up).


t

 

[insectguy]

So my suggestion is first a high-end factory gun, then a mass-produced custom. This way the resources have been applied to completely work the bugs out.

The issue here is a dearth of .223 bolt rifles available. I had a Blaser Tactical II, and I could have gotten a barrel and bolt for that ~$1800!), but the base rifle was chambered in .338lm, and I had nowhere to shoot. So I sold it.

I have a SCAR 16, but want a bolt for precision work.

 

[bbcellars]

I have only regretted not being patient enough to wait for exactly what I want. I have bought a couple customs simply because I didn't want to wait the 6-8 months to have one built. Only to be unhappy, and ordering the gun I wanted originally. Also, try and get your hands on as many different rifles ( stocks, triggers, scopes ) to see exactly what you like.

 

[REL1203]

I own 2 custom Bolts now, one from SAC, from an awesome Local builder. The SAC Cost more, took longer, but they both shoot lights out accurate but i shoot the SAC260 WAY more and knew it was going to be that way, i knew i wanted Mark to build it for me from the Get Go. I had 4 or 6 Factory bolts before, never loved any of them. Sold them all, ordered my 2 customs (one short action 260 and one Long Action 300 WM). I couldnt be happier. Sure, the price hurt, but they are EXACTLY what I wanted, built from builders that I knew would make them lasers, and I couldnt be happier to have them speced out perfectly like I wanted.

I wish I did it sooner, and didnt both to much past the first Bolt Action rifle I ever owned.

 

[Cascade Precision]

My only regret EVER was that I did not get started making my own. I had a Chad Dixon built rifle that was as good a rifle as can be built. I never regretted it, ever, and was saddened when I had to sell it to get funding for a rifle for my son and I.

You will never regret the decision IF YOU DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE IN SELECTING A GOOD SMITH!

Wally

 

[trigger29]

I've recently received my first Longrifles custom. I have many other nice, high end factory sticks, and NONE compares to what I feel shooting my custom. Everything about it is just nicer. Running the bolt feels better, it was measured up when I built it to put the trigger where I want it. Everything is just higher quality, and when you stack it all up, it makes a rifle a joy to shoot! I leave a lot of the factory rifles that I thought were awesome at home now...... Because this one IS awesome!

 

[Bradu]

I can only think of one and it's that I can't afford more of them.

 

[turbo54]

SAC rifles are absolutely, positively good to go, so the smithwork is NOT in question here.

The only possible regrets you face in buying the custom are:

1. You couldn't legitimately afford it.

2. It isn't what you *really* wanted...

...it is possible you don't really even know what you want. If that's the case, hold off on the custom and buy the 5R. You'll know it when you WANT/NEED a custom rifle.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Not doing more research on caliber selection.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I look at it this way, a capable marksman's accuracy potential is a separate matter from their implements.

They can wring out the last full measure of the equipment's potential; the only real question being how much potential that equipment harbors. In my estimation, modern factory rifle generally harbor at least as much accuracy potential as their shooters. I know that when I 'miss' a shot, it's my fault, either in judgment or execution, and rarely the equipment's, so long as my load development has been adequate; and I have no qualms about making this admission.

That's not an indictment of anyone else's abilities, rather a suggestion that preferences for custom features are better based on convenience, esthetics, ergonomics, and individual creative expression. Of course the customs shoot better and easier, and there's absolutely no reason to criticize that in any manner. But still, as accuracy goes, the average shooter's accuracy needs are more than met by production implements.

I appreciate and respect the skill and work that goes into a fine custom firearm, but somehow, I fall short of envy. Again, my needs are probably simpler, and for me, the only defensible reason to go custom is to attain a basic capability that is in no other way attainable. The rest of it, esthetics, etc., fall under my view that the beauty is in the function, and in the eye of the beholder. I don't have a compulsion to modify for looks. If it hits the targets, it's pretty to my eye; and besides, production rifles are usually fairly pretty in their own right. As for 'common', I'm common; and my rifles suit me fine.

I agree completely with the adage about the shooter who only owns one rifle, and their probably being able to shoot it well. I own a bunch more than one rifle, and need to shoot them better than I currently do. That's probably my greatest marksmanship regret.

Greg

 

[LRJammer]

I only regret that I did spend it on a custom, instead of an AI. Nuff said.

 

[mattj]

One of the most important aspects of 'custom' is the customization -- everything can be exactly how you want it (within the limits of budget, etc).

The thing is, if you're new to the 'game', it takes experience to develop/understand your own preferences/needs for the kind of shooting you do.

There is 'cost' involved in doing the custom thing (money, of course, but also mental energy, waiting for it, etc) -- and once you invest all that, it can be hard to admit to yourself that you maybe should have made some different choices.

So I think for a lot of folks, it makes sense to start with a very versatile base that is functional that you feel okay messing with. (Usually this will mean Rem700). Then shoot a bunch / tweak / rinse wash repeat until you figure that stuff out.... then when you really understand what you want/need make the investment for a custom where you really benefit from the 'custom-ness' of it, not just the quality aspects.

 

[milo 2.0]

I regret I didn't do it sooner also, I'm not sure if I mean buying a custom, or getting into this LR game sooner. In my time I never been around any factory gun that compares to a custom, of coarse no comparison here is linear.

Just the confidence level one can attain by shooting .150" groups, compared to 3/8" or 1/2" groups with a factory gun you can go from, "I want to hit that target", to "I know I can hit that target".

My first custom, a 7mm saum, on the first outing with it, 3 separate guys ran the range from 200-1200 yards, first round hits with it. Not many guns can do this, one expert shooter, one advancing, and one total novice.

 

[OFIS]

I regret going custom with a Remington action.
It works well, but if you go custom, go custom.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

Why not just buy an AI with the $3700? I had the chance to shoot and AI, and if I had $3700 then that's what I would buy. No questions asked. But that's just me.

 

[mattj]

I don't know if I'd recommend a 'custom' for a getting-into-stuff gun (unless you got the kind of money that those kinds of purchases are no big deal).. simply because the best part of 'custom' is getting exactly what suites your body/style/preferences/type of shooting. If you're just starting out you haven't had a chance to develop those, and therefore don't what to have built to best suit YOU.

If you can afford it, I'd almost say buy an off-the shelf higher end gun with good resale value (think AI/Sako) -- (theoretically) no wait, gain a bunch of experience, then down the road if you want you can sell it, recoup much of your investment, and put the $/time/effort into spec'ing a custom that truely fits your now established needs/preferences/etc.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

If you can afford it, I'd almost say buy an off-the shelf higher end gun with good resale value (think AI/Sako) -- (theoretically) no wait, gain a bunch of experience, then down the road if you want you can sell it, recoup much of your investment, and put the $/time/effort into spec'ing a custom that truely fits your now established needs/preferences/etc.

This. I really don't think you can go wrong.

 

[insectguy]

Ok, I'm not new to the shooting game. I am new to the prospect of getting a possibly custom rifle. I want a .223, and therein lies the problem. If Sako made a TRG in .223 or AI made a .223, then I would have a direction. But I haven't seen a higher-end factory rifle in .223. I realize I could get a .260 or 6.5 creedmoor, but that's not what I'm looking for. I already have a Sako .308, and a 40X in .308.

So, it looks like my options are to buy a factory rifle, such as the 5r, and modify accordingly, or go custom. Thoughts?

BTW, I do have a budget, and it's not unlimited. But I am willing to pay for quality.

So the question is, what do I intend to do with it? With a .223, I will be shooting to 500 yards, with UKD's in the mix. Punching holes in paper chasing the perfect ladder load.

 

[tylerw02]

Have you considered a Tikka in .223 and dropping it in a W3 Chassis from KRG?

 

[insectguy]

Have you considered a Tikka in .223 and dropping it in a W3 Chassis from KRG?

. I actually have a few questions out to the seller of the one listed in the for sale section.

 

[45.308]

I am one that regrets a custom or semi custom, what ever you want to call it by a very well known reputable gun plumber here on the hide. The rifle is a shooter but its does not shoot the amount it cost more better than my 700. The action is butter smooth compared to my 700s. Just handling the rifle it feels different than a factory rifle even the 700 I gucci'd up. For the almost $5000 that it cost, that is a load of ammo I could have been shooting down range in my 700s working out loads, improve fundamentals and fun time, I could have bought several different rifles for more fun, so in my book, was it a waste, not completely but I do regret spending the money, now I had time to re-think it all over. If you have the disposable income to drop on a custom rifle I am sure it is worth it but for me who does not, I do regret it I could used the money for ammo and fun time.

My friends and my sons Savage 22.250s all are shooters out of the box. My son has less than a grand in his 22.250 complete with scope and it will shoot as well and better than my custom. No one I know has it in 223.

Tikka are also out of the box shooters.

For my coin, these two are just as good as a custom rig, save the coin for glass, time on the trigger and reloading set up. Reloading will get you more for the coin than any custom pop gun.

good luck

 

[timjoebobbradley]

I have not had any regrets going custom, only details of a chamber reamer. Specifically, having to neck turn for a AI cartridge. It takes a lot of attention to detail to get the brass just right.

I have just had a custom rifle come up ready to ship, it was a lot shorter wait than I would have thought- less than 2 months.

You will have regrets on this new SAC rifle if it isn't in the cartridge you want, or color is significantly different than your area of desire, or barrel length is more than 4" of what you had in mind. If you wanted a 24" and it is 22" or 26" I don't think it would matter. Unless it is a folding stock the price does not sound like it is much of a deal, based on my just having bought a 4k rifle this year. this is just my opinion, not saying SAC charges to much for their rifles. I don't know the exact configuration or caliber of the rifle you are looking at. If it is a .338 lm and comes with some extras (rings/ bases/ muzzle device, magazines) it might be a great deal. A standard .308/ 260 etc,? not that great of a deal.

In summary- If the SAC rifle in question isn't pretty much exactly what you are looking for, don't get it. If it is a pretty standard rifle you could check with gap for a pretty dang short turn around time. I do not have any experience on how long sac takes to build a custom rifle.

 

[CanPopper]

I had a regret with going custom. For my very first custom, I thought I wanted "Ultimate Accuracy" so I had one built with in .300 Win Mag with a 26" Rock Creek AMU contour barrel with a JP Recoil Eliminator threaded on. Well, be careful what you wish for because I got my wish. The gun was a tack driver. It shot awesome. But you know what? That thing was a freaking PITA to carry around! After the high end tactical scope I put on it with the Badger USMC rings, the thing weighed out to 18lbs.

Just hauling it around was like Uffff! I relearned the hard way the same lesson the US military learned with some of their heavy artilery systems. What good is an awesome weapon if it is too heavy to haul to the theater of action?

So I recustomed my custom. I replaced the AMU barrel with a 26" Proof Research M24 contour carbon fiber wrap. The rings and base I swapped out with Murphy Titaniums. The stock I replace with the XLR. The JP with a Vais. Now my recustomed custom is much lighter and I can hump it around but it doesn't shoot as accurately like it did before (.25MOA to .5MOA) and it kicks a bit harder. Tradeoff tradeoffs.

 

[diderr]

The wait!!! It's killing me. Mine is in the final stage though. I'm getting it cerakoted, and it's gotta get put back together. There's days I wish I would have just bought a FN a3g or a5m, but this will be truly one-of-a-kind gun when I get it back.

 

[Zepp]

Getting ready to get my next rifle, that is why I read this thread. A lot of good stuff here.

If someone already knows how to shoot then they can understand the importance of a really good shooter. If someone does not know how to shoot then get a good 22, no disrespect intended as i regularly work with a 22 because I just down right love playing with it. Beside that a 22 is super easy to clean and cheap to feed. You can really sharpen up your fundamentals by shooting at a golf ball on the base of a berm at 100 yards.

My next rifle will most likely be a 260 for long range paper punching, some competition and some hunting. While I would like to have a smith put something together for me I just don't want the risk of a not so great rifle and I don't want to take the risk of being out good money. In my case I am going to most likely save up and buy a high end factory. I use my toys and I want a good one that will take a respected workout and still be around 10 years from now.

 

[DeSnifter]

I regret it. Ordered a rifle November 16, 2011. Was quoted worst case scenario 10 months, best case 6 months. 18 months later I still have no rifle and no evidence that it will be here soon.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

I regret it. Ordered a rifle November 16, 2011. Was quoted worst case scenario 10 months, best case 6 months. 18 months later I still have no rifle and no evidence that it will be here soon.

That sucks.

 

[bas402]

I didn't reget building my (3) customs at all untill I bought my DTA. Now they seem to have become safe queens and I have (5) conversions for my DTA.

Sully

 

[JB02]

So my suggestion is first a high-end factory gun, then a mass-produced custom. This way the resources have been applied to completely work the bugs out.

By a "mass-produced custom", do you mean something like a Surgeon Scalpel or a GAP Thunder Ranch Rifle?

[MENTION=35056]DeSnifter[/MENTION], I don't know how you can stand that. I would have pulled chalks months ago and took my business elsewhere (provided it wasn't something extremely exotic).

I own a rifle built by Surgeon and it's terrific. The problem I have, and I believe that it's common to many on this forum, is that I somewhat suffer from rifle ADD, and as soon as I get my hands on something that I think is "the rifle I've always wanted" I fixate on something else. It's a problem that I can only really solve if I find a bag of money from some dude laying under a tree in the middle of the desert.

If I was you, I would get something that will satisfy your appetite within a reasonable period of time (<4 months). Many top builders are able to do that. Mark Gordon builds very nice rifles, but so does Stephen at Surgeon Rifles.

 

[SporterII]

If that rifle is to your 'spec', I'd buy it.
Being already done, it is a known. The smith knows. Not likely he would miss represent.
Buying any rifle is hit or miss.
I would buy the hit.

 

[teerex]

I went full customs just getting into long range and have no regrets. I got an accurate gun that is exactly what I wanted and don't have to change anything. Working with Mark Gordon was a great experience, and If I had to do it all over again I would.

 

[woostri]

Custom costing more??? Heck if you can find a used rem700 action and walk into a good smith with it, you can walk out $1400 later with a 1/4 moa tack driver... 'least that's my experience. Then put at least that much or more in glass on top of it and you're talking competition quality gun for about $3k. I don't get why the pre-built "custom" guns cost so much when you can order all the parts and just pay for the machine time for a smith to put it together for half the price. That's my method anyways. It does require extensive research to know what parts of the puzzle to bring to the smith but its worth it.

 

[SporterII]

Custom costing more??? Heck if you can find a used rem700 action and walk into a good smith with it, you can walk out $1400 later with a 1/4 moa tack driver... 'least that's my experience. Then put at least that much or more in glass on top of it and you're talking competition quality gun for about $3k. I don't get why the pre-built "custom" guns cost so much when you can order all the parts and just pay for the machine time for a smith to put it together for half the price. That's my method anyways. It does require extensive research to know what parts of the puzzle to bring to the smith but its worth it.

It does sound like you have contributed to some of the cost with your research and expertise. Not apples to oranges.

 

[JB02]

Custom costing more??? Heck if you can find a used rem700 action and walk into a good smith with it, you can walk out $1400 later with a 1/4 moa tack driver... 'least that's my experience. Then put at least that much or more in glass on top of it and you're talking competition quality gun for about $3k. I don't get why the pre-built "custom" guns cost so much when you can order all the parts and just pay for the machine time for a smith to put it together for half the price. That's my method anyways. It does require extensive research to know what parts of the puzzle to bring to the smith but its worth it.

I don't buy that.

Parts
Action $500.00
Barrel $340.00
Trigger (tuning) $65.00
Bolt Knob (installed) $90.00
Recoil Lug $40.00
Manners Mini-Chassis (non adjustable) $900.00
Rail $110.00
Parts Total $2,045.00

Labor
Blueprinting $125.00
Chamber, cut, crown $275.00
Finishing $175.00
Labor Total $575.00

Total $2,620.00

I would say that this is a bare bones price that doesn't include the cost of assembling all of these parts and shipping them to the builder (easily add another $100). Note that these specs do not include a muzzle brake and have modestly priced labor; many builders charge more. Add a muzzle brake, rings, a nice bipod, and a case to ship this in and you have blown by your $3,000 limit without optics.

 

[SporterII]

Labor
Blueprinting $125.00
Chamber, cut, crown $275.00
Finishing $175.00
Labor Total $575.0 .

You're hired.

 

[HoytFlinger]

People spend way too much time time trying to decide custom vs high end box. Most high end box rifles (TRG, AI, etc) will shoot with any custom. The best time spent is honing skills rather than fighting with yourself on which way to go on rifles. I seriously doubt anyone truly regrets going AI, TRG, DTA, etc, over a custom. You know what you are getting with a high end box rifle most of the time, not always the case with a custom.