Night Vision Any Regrets w your purchases?

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Before I pull the trigger I wanted to ask:

What regrets do you have w your NV set up?

What would you buy instead?

What gear was a complete waste?

Let me learn from your mistakes.

 

[jstokes1]

This is going to be a fun thread.

Stay away from cheaper helmets; spend the money on proven helmets.

Spend as much as you can afford on whatever unit you're looking at purchasing. Get white phosphor over green phosphor.

 

[_Windrider_]

My biggest regret is not buying more sooner

 

[wigwamitus]

Junk is junk. Avoid junk.
Most lower end thermals on the market, sub $5500 are chinese junks, regardless of "brand name".
Only exceptions are a few FLIR cored items (or used).
All 5 of 7 chinese thermals i had broke quickly in the field.

 

[rlsmith1]

I am so glad I never wasted time with civilian power illuminators. MAWL C1+ or get a FP laser.

I don’t have any NV gear I don’t use so @TacticalDillhole is right, I regret not buying more sooner. Thankful I spent the $ to get quality stuff the first go around. The only thing I went cheap on is IR markers. No Helstar for me…

Right away, I regretted not having enough to share with at least one buddy. So either make new friends or snag an extra helmet, cheap PVS14, and OTAL C tied to a SF Vampire via TAPS as soon as you can. Let them drool over your good gear and they’ll come around

 

[jstokes1]

I am so glad I never wasted time with civilian power illuminators. MAWL C1+ or get a FP laser.

I don’t have any NV gear I don’t use so @TacticalDillhole is right, I regret not buying more sooner. Thankful I spent the $ to get quality stuff the first go around. The only thing I went cheap on is IR markers. No Helstar for me…

Right away, I regretted not having enough to share with at least one buddy. So either make new friends or snag an extra helmet, cheap PVS14, and OTAL C tied to a SF Vampire via TAPS as soon as you can. Let them drool over your good gear and they’ll come around

This....having extra gear for friends and family is HUGE. The experience isn't nearly as fun for them.... if they are staring into the dark unaugmented.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Junk is junk. Avoid junk.
Most lower end thermals on the market, sub $5500 are chinese junks, regardless of "brand name".
Only exceptions are a few FLIR cored items (or used).
All 5 of 7 chinese thermals i had broke quickly in the field.

I'm gonna disagree on the sub $5k part. I have been running Bering optics and been very happy with them.

My suggestion is well characterize your needs and wants, then start putting together the kit. Doing it any other way goes badly - or has for me.

 

[Boon20]

I found this extreamly helpfull in the darkest nights or areas

Princeton Tec Charge PRO - MPLS

CR123A Battery Powered Multi-LED Hands-Free Light

tnvc.com

 

[Schaaf]

 

[GreenMushroom]

This is going to be a fun thread.

Stay away from cheaper helmets; spend the money on proven helmets.

Spend as much as your can afford on whatever unit you're looking at purchasing. Get white phosphor over green phosphor.

This....having extra gear for friends and family is HUGE. The experience isn't nearly as fun for them.... if they are staring into the dark unaugmented.

These 2 go together. It's a lot more fun if you have friends and family involved. More fun = you using your gear more often and increasing your skill level. If you have a 2nd budget setup you wear that and let your guests use the fancy stuff. They will have more fun and want to go more = you going more often = more skills etc......

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

These 2 go together. It's a lot more fun if you have friends and family involved. More fun = you using your gear more often and increasing your skill level. If you have a 2nd budget setup you wear that and let your guests use the fancy stuff. They will have more fun and want to go more = you going more often = more skills etc......

Very good point. In my AO there’s a LOT of desert to get lost in and definitely safety in numbers

I need this mystical friend you speak of….I’ll just borrow his best stuff and save money. Heck, I’ll make him drive too.

 

[The King]

I regretted:

Every 320 thermal, including the drones.
The Steiner SPIR

I didn't regret:
The fucking NOX18.
Bering Yoter-C
M2124-LR
everything from PERST.

I'm still on the fence about the RAPTAR-S. So much money for so many compromises, but it does a thing nothing else does.

Advice?
Build capabilities - the first should be a helmet mounted I2 system with a carbine that has a can and a laser/illum.
The second thing should be enough of that shit for your whole family and friends.
Then head out for a thermal clip on, like the new Steiner or the Bering Yoter-C.
Then mess with helmet thermal.

 

[rlsmith1]

Sounds like you ended up liking the Yoter C after all? 100% agree on the NOX18, the thing is a powerhouse

 

[jstokes1]

Regret here: make sure that if you're selling a unit you have to "upgrade" to something newer...be patient and wait for some good reviews to come out on the consumer side.

Ask around and take in as much information as you can to make DAMN sure that you don't sell anything you loved/hard to get for something you now regret.

Ask me how I know .

 

[WhereNow&How]

So much money for so many compromises, but it does a thing nothing else does.

Sounds like a few women I have known.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Stay away from cheaper helmets; spend the money on proven helmets.

Well maybe not in some cases.

For a non ballistic helmet, I have gotten the art of taking a (cheap in price) Chinese Airsoft helmet down to a fine science by stripping them down to nothing but the shell and then rebuilding its components out to way more comfortable, durable and serviceable than anything you can buy already correctly assembled.

And at a much lower cost than a lot of the non ballistic "top of the line" bump helmets are currently selling for.

4 D Deluxe Pads are crucial to having a really comfortable helmet IMHO. 4D Pads are the most major upgrade and also combined with a H Nape Chinstrap. Those are the two most important comfort features I have found.

But I like to tweak my gear to my specific needs and don't mind putting the time and labor in whereas others may not want to go that route.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Sounds like a few women I have known.

"Honey don't be mad.....but I think I left the nox on the picnic table back there...."

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I regretted:

Every 320 thermal, including the drones.
The Steiner SPIR

I didn't regret:
The fucking NOX18.
Bering Yoter-C
M2124-LR
everything from PERST.

I'm still on the fence about the RAPTAR-S. So much money for so many compromises, but it does a thing nothing else does.

Advice?
Build capabilities - the first should be a helmet mounted I2 system with a carbine that has a can and a laser/illum.
The second thing should be enough of that shit for your whole family and friends.
Then head out for a thermal clip on, like the new Steiner or the Bering Yoter-C.
Then mess with helmet thermal.

Appreciate the feedback

Definitely planning to do as you advised, build out a helmet mounted system and a carbine light source.

Thanks!

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Regret here: make sure that if you're selling a unit you have to "upgrade" to something newer...be patient and wait for some good reviews to come out on the consumer side.

Ask around and take in as much information as you can to make DAMN sure that you don't sell anything you loved/hard to get for something you now regret.

Ask me how I know .

How do you know?

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Well maybe not in some cases.

For a non ballistic helmet, I have gotten the art of taking a (cheap in price) Chinese Airsoft helmet down to a fine science by stripping them down to nothing but the shell and then rebuilding its components out to way more comfortable, durable and serviceable than anything you can buy already correctly assembled.

And at a much lower cost than a lot of the non ballistic "top of the line" bump helmets are currently selling for.

4 D Deluxe Pads are crucial to having a really comfortable helmet IMHO. 4D Pads are the most major upgrade and also combined with a H Nape Chinstrap. Those are the two most important comfort features I have found.

But I like to tweak my gear to my specific needs and don't mind putting the time and labor in whereas others may not want to go that route.

Do you have a step by step guide?

I’m now learning I have to get a second set up.

 

[WhereNow&How]

"Honey don't be mad.....but I think I left the nox on the picnic table back there...."

View attachment 7892005

Yeah a buddy of mine lost his Triji 300 Patrol while out hunting in some heavy canopy. His wife bought him a metal detector and he spent 3 days out there before he finally found it. It was fine. No damage.

 

[Rerun7]

Buy once cry once. Buying the cheaper stuff was always a compromise and left me wanting more so I ended up buying the expensive stuff anyway and losing money on the cheaper stuff.

That said, while it’s a good thermal, I’ve been a little disappointed in the nox18. I want to love it but for me, there are a few things that just keep it from living up to the hype.

 

[jstokes1]

Buy once cry once. Buying the cheaper stuff was always a compromise and left me wanting more so I ended up buying the expensive stuff anyway and losing money on the cheaper stuff.

That said, while it’s a good thermal, I’ve been a little disappointed in the nox18. I want to love it but for me, there are a few things that just keep it from living up to the hype.

I was the same way with mine... and said that I'd never get a skeet because "it costs too much for what it is"






.......So anyway, here I am now with a skeet IRX.

 

[jstokes1]

How do you know?

Got rid of a UTC X for a Tig......and the Tig wasn't a fraction of a long range thermal the UTC X was. Instant regret for an 11,500 doll hair unit. I'll never do that again.

It was my fault for wanting "the new fancy thing", at the cost of something that's really hard to get back. Some lessons are taught the hard way.

 

[The King]

Got rid of a UTC X for a Tig......and the Tig wasn't a fraction of a long range thermal the UTC X was. Instant regret for an 11,500 doll hair unit. I'll never do that again.

It was my fault for wanting "the new fancy thing", at the cost of something that's really hard to get back. Some lessons are taught the hard way.

I might have done that a few times. It mostly worked out though - the TigIR was the biggest toilet filler I dodged though.

 

[spamassassin]

Be cautious of racing paper. Comparing specs only gets you so far and someone else's review and your review may not always agree because use case matters. As a general rule, the bit from Jurassic park is true: if it's heavy it's expensive and vice versa. Not always the case but often enough. I only recently entered the night game so perhaps you'll benefit from my perspective. My use case is centered around intermediate to long range game/pest/predator management.

My experiences so far with me being pretty new to the shooting in the dark game: Dedicated seems to outperform clip-on every time. If this bothers you because you don't want to build a dedicated night gun then high quality one piece QD scope mounts like those from Larue make things less annoying when swapping off a day scope for a dedicated night scope. So far, genuine military kit is always astonishing.
NV: PVS-27, PVS-30, PVS-24LR are all excellent and despite the FOM differences among them I don't really see a giant difference so far except in weight and recoil tolerance. WP contrast is hugely better than green but green feels less intense/wearing on the eyes. In the end I prefer green for long range field use and white for helmet mounted indoors kind of stuff. ATN products I'd steer directly clear of entirely. They work fine but they break better.
Thermal: Safran COTI was disappointing when I tried to use it for something it's not meant to be used for but is just fine when used as intended. Steiner C35 is currently a mind boggling bargain and pricing is about to go up dramatically so I'd jump on that now if thermal is something you want (find the thread here on the Hide). Bering Hogsters were a gigantic surprise in terms of cost effective performance in a tiny package but the power buttons being finicky is a bit infuriating sometimes.

Used can be risky but so far nobody on the Hide has deliberately done me dirty. I've bought night vision stuff from a good number people here so far and all were excellent people dealing honestly and forthrightly. I did have one unit I bought from the hide fail almost immediately but details have unfolded to demonstrate that there's no way that the seller would have known it was going to happen or that they described the item in anything but completely honest terms and it's being fixed by the manufacturer now for free. I wouldn't get used stuff anywhere else but here. On the retail side I've bought from Kosher Surplus, Downrange Thermal, TNVC, Own the Night , Mockingbird Precision and Eurooptic. All were solid and quite helpful.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Can the C35 be rail mounted or just the objective mount?

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Rail mount only in the US.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Unless you can find the adaptors somehow but with the weight of the unit I wouldn't reccomend it.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

My biggest regret is continually upgrading my gear before I had enough time to truly become competent with it and know if it would work for me. I also regret not being born earlier so I could have bought land in texas after the housing crash.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

My biggest regret is continually upgrading my gear before I had enough time to truly become competent with it and know if it would work for me. I also regret not being born earlier so I could have bought land in texas after the housing crash.

You might just get another shot at that one!

 

[stefan73]

Lots and lots of learning, reading and reading between the lines, listening and asking questions.

There are a lot of good systems. Some are better at a particular application than others. Some units sucks for what they cost!

There are cheaper units (Bering) that make pretty solid stuff. The Yoter C has some issues with digital magnification and POI shift. Tig doesn't have a manual focus that limits its use, Iray Rico has a weird effect when helmet mounted etc etc etc

For clipon use the Rico and the Yoter C might be perfect for you and so could the Steiner C35 or a Theon if you have the cash but is it the best for your application? Or maybe a PVS 24, 26, 27 or 30?

What do you plan to do with it? What is the terrain like you are going to use it on? There are a lot of people with extensive knowledge on here about these systems SOK, DRT, SSNV, TNVC, JRH etc etc.

A big thing I would say that is helpful is having patience.

 

[Burdy]

Your use case will determine everything. In fact, your exact use case is the very basis for refining your search by deduction. There are guys on here that get all nutted up about max magnification, or resolution or size or weight or whatever it may be and tell you what the "best" is. It may not apply to you at all.

For instance, I love a short range clip on that allows use with an LPVO for fast paced coyote hunting or hog hunting where the yardages are mid range at best, but the ability to have a wide FOV far outweighs my ability to see a gnats ass at 500 yards at high magnification levels. Not only is it not important to have that extra capability, it is actually limiting. Choosing a more expensive, but incorrect option here greatly reduces my chances of success in the field.

With that being said, if there was ever a buy-once-cry-once category, you have just found it. You can spend $15k now, or $6k on three separate occasions. Your choice. The problem is countless people will tell you that their "X" unit looks just as good as their buddies "Y" unit that cost twice as much. They are probably correct. The price you pay for premium optics in this category has less to do with resulting resolution and much more to do with the fact that it is actually going to maintain accuracy through a number of use cases and it is also going to survive that fall when you roll it off your tailgate and on to the gravel. Babying a several thousand dollar optic in the field absolutely ruins the entire experience.

 

[jstokes1]

Your use case will determine everything. In fact, your exact use case is the very basis for refining your search by deduction. There are guys on here that get all nutted up about max magnification, or resolution or size or weight or whatever it may be and tell you what the "best" is. It may not apply to you at all.

For instance, I love a short range clip on that allows use with an LPVO for fast paced coyote hunting or hog hunting where the yardages are mid range at best, but the ability to have a wide FOV far outweighs my ability to see a gnats ass at 500 yards at high magnification levels. Not only is it not important to have that extra capability, it is actually limiting. Choosing a more expensive, but incorrect option here greatly reduces my chances of success in the field.

With that being said, if there was ever a buy-once-cry-once category, you have just found it. You can spend $15k now, or $6k on three separate occasions. Your choice. The problem is countless people will tell you that their "X" unit looks just as good as their buddies "Y" unit that cost twice as much. They are probably correct. The price you pay for premium optics in this category has less to do with resulting resolution and much more to do with the fact that it is actually going to maintain accuracy through a number of use cases and it is also going to survive that fall when you roll it off your tailgate and on to the gravel.

This is also true. For my area, I can see at minimum 6 miles at night. I've spotted coyotes at over a mile with some long range options. So for my use case, a low FOV clip on thermal and a high resolution handheld is ideal.

For the majority of hog hunters (which encompasses the controlling share of night time hunters), your shots are going to be 100 yards and in. This makes options easier. Yes, you can still spend a crap ton on units like the voodoo S that are clip ons/HMTs/dedicated/handhelds, but options are more forgiving in general when your ranges are closer.

As you stated above, the more expensive milspec options have a higher probability of staying alive in more varying conditions compared to cheaper, budget options. So again, comes down to your use case.

 

[BattleAxe]

No regrets with the following...
*DTNVS w/com-spec tubes from NGI/TNVC
*TNVC mil-spec PVS14
*MAWL C1+
*Ops Core FAST SF Ballistic
*Team Wendy CF Bump
The "I want" part of my brain wishes I would have gotten mil spec tubes in the DTs but their performance in field use and during Greenline's Night Fighter just doesn't justify it. They're quite good.

 

[TheHorta]

I regret dropping $20K on 3700 FOM RPO DTNVS — a little.

I might regret a certain thing with a certain robot.

I regret not taking a dump before heading out for a night of yote hunting.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I regret not taking a dump before heading out for a night of yote hunting.

Hopefully it wasn’t a windy morning in nothing more than tall grass.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I might regret a certain thing with a certain robot.

Is this the robot your getting Horta.

Buyer beware. It's made in Chyna and the Core might not be good.

 

[aslrookie]

Save your money and get dual tubes instead of rushing to a monocular. If the duals are well outside of your budget, get a high quality mono that will hold its value while you save for duals.

Then you can either keep the mono as a secondary or sell to fund duals.

I never understood the obsession with the MAWL. Sure, it’s a nice unit but you could buy two FP PEQ15 for 1 MAWL. Especially now with people selling PEQ15 to fund things like an NGAL. I wouldn’t waste your money on a civilian unit other than a D2 or one of the higher cost units if that’s what you really want.

My only regret is not having more friends with nods.

 

[cantankerous]

I regretted buying an ATN gen 2+ clip on. It was my first NV device and I was clueless.

you *could* see at night... for about 50 yards.

I kinda regretted swapping a 20mm IR hunter for a 50mm Armasight Apollo.
the 50mm Apollo struggled to give a defined image of cattle after 300-400 yards.

Sunday morning I had the pleasure of meeting Wig and doing some trading for a 100mm Apollo and there is a world of difference in image. I suspect it's a function of firmware versions.

 

[stefan73]

I regret dropping $20K on 3700 FOM RPO DTNVS — a little.

I might regret a certain thing with a certain robot.

I regret not taking a dump before heading out for a night of yote hunting.

I found you some Talon 4 robots.

 

[Rerun7]

Save your money and get dual tubes instead of rushing to a monocular. If the duals are well outside of your budget, get a high quality mono that will hold its value while you save for duals.

Then you can either keep the mono as a secondary or sell to fund duals.

This goes back to usage/purpose. Nothing wrong with running a nice single tube depending on what you are doing.

I run a mono and pair it with a hmt for dual band. For hunting I see more than I would just running duals.

 

[Mncoyotehnter]

I bought my stuff strictly for calling coyotes at night, and my first purchase was a pvs 30, complete waste of time for calling coyotes, cool product but not very good when spotting them with a thermal then trying to find them with pvs 30 allowed a lot to get away, then i bought a super yoter r which is nice but eye relief sucks like most dedicated thermals if you wear glasses, then i also got a lwts which i like the best, get to use my regular scope with good eye relief and its easy to find the coyotes with the lwts after spotting them with my thermal binoculars,
pretty easy to blow 10 grand on stuff you really dont like that much.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I bought my stuff strictly for calling coyotes at night, and my first purchase was a pvs 30, complete waste of time for calling coyotes, cool product but not very good when spotting them with a thermal then trying to find them with pvs 30 allowed a lot to get away, then i bought a super yoter r which is nice but eye relief sucks like most dedicated thermals if you wear glasses, then i also got a lwts which i like the best, get to use my regular scope with good eye relief and its easy to find the coyotes with the lwts after spotting them with my thermal binoculars,
pretty easy to blow 10 grand on stuff you really dont like that much.

This is my concern.


I also hate that we are prohibited from using them to hunt in this state.

I appreciate your feedback. I love coyote hunting and wish I could.

 

[Keel Haul]

Well maybe not in some cases.

For a non ballistic helmet, I have gotten the art of taking a (cheap in price) Chinese Airsoft helmet down to a fine science by stripping them down to nothing but the shell and then rebuilding its components out to way more comfortable, durable and serviceable than anything you can buy already correctly assembled.

And at a much lower cost than a lot of the non ballistic "top of the line" bump helmets are currently selling for.

4 D Deluxe Pads are crucial to having a really comfortable helmet IMHO. 4D Pads are the most major upgrade and also combined with a H Nape Chinstrap. Those are the two most important comfort features I have found.

But I like to tweak my gear to my specific needs and don't mind putting the time and labor in whereas others may not want to go that route.

I also would like to see a write up on this. The missus doesn’t like the weight of my PGD helmet using nods. She’s definitely looking for a lighter weight bump and since she won’t be using it as much as I do, I really don’t wanna buy some 250 and up piece of kit she’s rarely going to use.

As for regrets, only thing I can say on my end is not getting the game sooner.

*edit for typo

 

[stefan73]

I also would like to see a write up on this. The missus doesn’t like the weight of my PGD helmet using nods . She’s definitely looking for a lighter weight bump and since she won’t be using it as much as I do, I really don’t wanna buy some 250 and up piece of kit she’s rarely going to use.

As for regrets, only thing I can say on my end is noting getting the game sooner.

Why not us a Crye Nightcap?

 

[Keel Haul]

Borrowed one from a coworker to try out and it was alright. Trying to decipher what a woman says and doesn’t say into a piece of gear selection is interesting. From my translations I think she’s telling me she likes the idea of a helmet for night walks and camping but she doesn’t like the weight of Kevlar. A bump would be fine for her because I think the biggest threat she’s going need protection from is either tripping over something or a random tree branch at short girl height. Oh, and it must be an OD green helmet. That much was loud and clear.

 

[stefan73]

Borrowed one from a coworker to try out and it was alright. Trying to decipher what a woman says and doesn’t say into a piece of gear selection is interesting. From my translations I think she’s telling me she likes the idea of a helmet for night walks and camping but she doesn’t like the weight of Kevlar. A bump would be fine for her because I think the biggest threat she’s going need protection from is either tripping over something or a random tree branch at short girl height. Oh, and it must be an OD green helmet. That much was loud and clear.

At least she is specific. Makes things easier.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I also would like to see a write up on this. The missus doesn’t like the weight of my PGD helmet using nods. She’s definitely looking for a lighter weight bump and since she won’t be using it as much as I do, I really don’t wanna buy some 250 and up piece of kit she’s rarely going to use.

As for regrets, only thing I can say on my end is not getting the game sooner.

*edit for typo

I'll give you a write up with links later this evening. Pressed for time right now.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Why not us a Crye Nightcap?

I also run the Crye Nightcap, both with a single PVS 14 and also with a set of Dual PVS 14's with Coti attached.

All that being said, the Crye is good at what it's good at, however a properly setup bump will give more comfort and stability for a complete system.

But the Crye Nightcap is definitely a nice tool to have in the toolbox.