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Anybody Trim Pistol Brass? On a Dillon?

Strykervet

ain'T goT no how whaTchamacalliT
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  • Jun 5, 2011
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    For handguns I load 9mm, 10mm, .40 (only light practice loads) .38/.357, .45ACP and eventually I'd like to get a .44mag. I know some folks don't trim pistol brass at all. But with a Dillon it's easy to trim every case to spec. since it's just another operation on the press. It can also size the brass.

    So why aren't there any pistol trim dies? I'm sure I could have Whidden make some. It'd be costly, the Grendel die cost me $137 all said and done.

    What does everyone else do? I can't see going through thousands of pieces of brass to see which ones need trimming or how much, and I can't see doing it by hand or with a regular trimmer either. Dillon 1500 would be the only way I'd bother. What are your methods?
     
    Stryker, unless you are just itching for stuff to do out of boredom, trimming pistol brass doesn’t really serve a purpose at all. When I first started loading, I asked around and ended up talking to Redding about it. They told me they make pilots for pistol calibers for their trimmer, but only because people requested it. Pistol brass doesn’t grow, and it’s ubiquitous enough that if you have a case out of spec, just toss it. I’ve never seen a case that was too long as to not allow enough headspace.
     
    I chuck 357 brass in a drill/lee case holder and trim with a lee hand tool. They'll get a little uneven shooting H110 loads with a heavy crimp. I don't trim other pistol brass.
     
    I chuck 357 brass in a drill/lee case holder and trim with a lee hand tool. They'll get a little uneven shooting H110 loads with a heavy crimp. I don't trim other pistol brass.

    Yeah, this I've seen. I was using N110, healthy charges in a 686+6". But I've seen others stretch too, wanna say 10mm (it's been a while since I loaded pistol ammo at all) and even others.

    Stryker, unless you are just itching for stuff to do out of boredom, trimming pistol brass doesn’t really serve a purpose at all. When I first started loading, I asked around and ended up talking to Redding about it. They told me they make pilots for pistol calibers for their trimmer, but only because people requested it. Pistol brass doesn’t grow, and it’s ubiquitous enough that if you have a case out of spec, just toss it. I’ve never seen a case that was too long as to not allow enough headspace.

    Not "stuff to do" at all. I'm using a 650. It will cost money for the custom dies though, around $550 all said and done for four calibers. So I'll wait and see, I know most people don't trim pistol brass but I'm gonna be loading thousands of pieces and I can't stop to measure each piece. A trimmer would be much, much faster. For instance, I trim all my rifle brass all the time, whether it needs it or not. If it needs it, it gets it. If it doesn't, it just passes through. I guess I'll have to wait until I get back into it and see how it works out.

    I got the pilots and stuff for the cheap RCBS trimmer that comes with the basic press from way back when. I still use the small press for all sorts of little things, but I don't touch the trimmer. Once you get a Dillon 1500RT trimmer and a 650 press, it's damn hard to go back to the old way.

    This could be a good thing though. Because Dillon doesn't sell trim dies for pistol brass, it means that most folks aren't calling for 'em and hence aren't trimming. That'd be nice. We'll see. It's been a while since I loaded for the pistol.

    Thanks for the replies and advice!
     
    Only pistol brass I ever trimmed were .38 Specials for my S&W M52-2

    Extremely accurate works of hand fitted art however they can be the fussiest semi autos I have ever seen but then they have the capability of putting 5 rounds into 2" at 50 yards ( S&W Guaranteed it,and has the test target on file for every one they made ) if you do your part.

    I tried a test run of 10mm for my BarSto's Delta Elite back in the 90's but it didn't buy me much in any way of accuracy etc.

    Most new brass is close to trim to length and it has been my experience that straight walled pistol cases actually tend to shorten over case life until they split or are lost, I am not sure what happened to MtnCreeks .357s but I taper crimp all my ammo no roll crimping here.

    use the depth setting on your calipers to measure the chamber depth on any semi auto and you will find you have sufficient room from the hood to the end of the chamber on most anything out there that is a production piece.

    Try this experiment, resize 25 empties or so and drop check them in the pistol you intend them for that will tell you if it is an issue for your brass/pistol combination.
     
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    Load it, case gauge it and shoot it. I’m not sure what the benefit you would get from trimming pistol cases. I’ve seen pretty consistent velocity from once fired mixed brass 9mm with ammo loaded on my Dillon.
     
    I reload a lot of once fired 9mm range brass. It's all different manufacturers. I find that there is significant variance in OAL between manufactures. I run a Lee seater and a seperate taper crimp die. With variations in brass length, some loaded rounds get crimped just fine, others not enough and then, some too much. I would really like to have a trimmer for my Dillon 650 that I could trim all brass to the same length. Would save me a lot of headaches trying to find a happy medium for the depth of the taper crimp die. When properly seated and crimped, the bullets won't spin in the case when turned by hand.
     
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    @LngRngShtr beat me to it.

    Only pistol brass I have ever heard that trimming might matter is for the 52-2 with 148 mid range loads.

    Im lazy.

    I load for my 52-2 with mixed headstamp at the length God gave it and my 52-2 is still my most accurate handgun.
     
    @LngRngShtr beat me to it.

    Only pistol brass I have ever heard that trimming might matter is for the 52-2 with 148 mid range loads.

    Im lazy.

    I load for my 52-2 with mixed headstamp at the length God gave it and my 52-2 is still my most accurate handgun.

    The problem I run into is with loaded rounds where the bullet will spin in the case, if not crimped well enough. To my way of thinking, that is a problem. With once fired range brass from different mfrs, the brass OAL varies enough in length that it's difficult, if not impossible to set the taper crimp die so that it crimps the short brass properly, but doesn't distort the long brass in the process of crimping. For those of you that re-load mixed mfr, once fired, how do you handle it ? I suppose I could machine up an adapter die that threads into a Dillon 650 toolhead, provide a vacuum port and a mount for a Dremel type of motor, but my time is at a premium right now. I'd rather just buy something that's ready to go, but haven't found anything yet. Dillon appears to only have trim dies for C/F Rifle cartridges. No fault of Dillon's, I suppose they may not get much call for pistol caliber trim dies.
     
    Threadcutter, it isn't as big a problem as one might think with pistol brass I taper crimp everything including range finds in 9mm, 38 Super .45ACP and none of it has ever failed either a chamber check or a cartridge gauge drop check. I have never had a round spin or setback with a taper crimp. of course jacketed would be most likely to spin vs. lead or plated, i would be interested to see if the "spinners" were the same case mfg. or not and how many thousandths variance in case length are you seeing ? looking for a pattern here if there is one.

    MtnCreek ever try a hammer style bullet puller with roll crimp and taper crimp rounds ? Taper is the way to go they are quite a bit harder to pull than popping a roll crimp.

    How I set it up my TC die is I run an empty into the resizing die and then measure at the edge of the case mouth then set the TC die to go .003-.004 tighter at the end of the case mouth than the resized case measurement and lock it down. of course the crimping is happening separately from the seater die.
     
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    If you're getting bullets spinning in the case without a crimp, you might want to look at your size die... You should have enough pull without crimp that the bullet is pretty darn firm in there before crimping. Sounds like your cases aren't being squozed enough by the size die? Mixed lots of brass - especially 9x19 - can differ sometimes quite a bit from case to case. But... I've known a bunch of people that buy random so-called "once fired" brass with mixed lots, and not ever have the problem of a bullet spinning in the case?

    Also... you could sort by headstamp and at least end up with manageable lots that should be roughly the same length?

    Maybe revolver cases with a roll crimp stretch? I've never had a straight wall pistol case yet that got longer with repeated use (20+ reloadings, in some cases).
     
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    ...
    MtnCreek ever try a hammer style bullet puller with roll crimp and taper crimp rounds ? Taper is the way to go they are quite a bit harder to pull than popping a roll crimp.
    ...

    Nope. I have one still in the plastic that's been sitting for several years. I have a .358 collet, but haven't used that either.
     
    I never trim pistol brass.

    I load .45, 9mm and .380, and once upon a time loaded .38/.357 and .44mag. At present, 99% of what I load is 9mm for USPSA-type shooting under 20 yards... not sure where it all went but I bought in excess of 10k bullets last year.

    I pick up whatever brass I find on the pistol bays. Everything from once-fired Hornady and SIG premium brass to used-up Blaser and FC. Case OAL varies a few thousandths; case mouth thickness to a lesser extent. Taper crimp. After rounds are loaded, every one goes into a Wilson case "gage" (their spelling). About 10% fail; these go into a separate container for practice with generously-chambered pistols.

    For competitions where I need somewhat more accurate 9mm ammo, I set aside decent once-fired cases from same manufacturer. These I load with JHP bullets instead of cheaper polymer-coated lead ones. Out of a cheap PCC, these will do 2" groups at 50 yards. The polymer-coated bullets will at least double that group size.

    Bottom line is, I am not loading "precision ammo" in pistol calibers because I don't need that kind of accuracy. For me, it's about expediency - get it done with the least amount of effort possible while delivering reliable, good-enough ammo.
     
    If you're getting bullets spinning in the case without a crimp, you might want to look at your size die... You should have enough pull without crimp that the bullet is pretty darn firm in there before crimping. Sounds like your cases aren't being squozed enough by the size die? Mixed lots of brass - especially 9x19 - can differ sometimes quite a bit from case to case. But... I've known a bunch of people that buy random so-called "once fired" brass with mixed lots, and not ever have the problem of a bullet spinning in the case?

    Also... you could sort by headstamp and at least end up with manageable lots that should be roughly the same length?

    Maybe revolver cases with a roll crimp stretch? I've never had a straight wall pistol case yet that got longer with repeated use (20+ reloadings, in some cases).
    Yep, I replaced the RCBS sizing die with a Lee 3 die set (Sizer, Seater and Crimper). That did make a hell of an improvement. You are spot on about the (RCBS) Sizer die, it wasn't squeezing the mouth down anywhere close to far enough. With the Lee Sizer, the bullets are tighter, much more consistently.
    For giggles, I just grabbed a handful of cleaned, non-resized, once fired 9mm brass to measure case OAL;

    WCC .7435"
    WCC .7415"
    R-P .7405"
    GFL .7390"
    GFL .7450"
    WIN .7365"
    WIN .7460"
    Norma .7390"
    IVI .7470"

    So, with randomly selected brass OAL between .7365" and .7470", the min/max spread is over .010". These dimensions pretty much encapsulate the point I'm trying to make. I have no expectation that the Lee die set will be able to cover that span, even if I do set the Taper Crimp die up for halfway between min/max. I was really quite unhappy with the RCBS Sizer. I think I may have turned it into dump fodder. If it did that shitty of a job on a simple resizing operation, there's no sense in keeping it around to just continue to cause problems. Conversely, I have been quite happy with the Lee three die set.

    I have done some headstamp sorting, but that is not a long term solution that I would entertain. If I'm going to spend that kind of time, it's going to be spent processing (trimming ) brass through the XL 650. I think I'm going to continue to look and see if I can find a Dillon "like" Trimmer set up. I'm not warm to the idea of building my own, but if I can't find something COTS, I may have to.

    BTW, do any of you guys possibly have a line on a Dillon "like" Trimmer Motor besides just a Dremel ? I'll take a look at Foredom's website for giggles. That motor realistically shouldn't be more than $100. Dillon gets a lot of money for their trimmer (assuming you are trying to trim CF rifle). The die/motor mount fixture, I'll have to make myself.
     
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    Glad that helped!

    If you really want to go off in the weeds with measuring how non-standard 9mm brass is, measure rim thickness, extractor groove depth and height, etc, too. It's all over the place.

    If you were running a competition gun and really needed super consistent ammo, I'd recommend standardizing on a headstamp, and even start with brand new brass, just to make sure everything is the same, always.
     
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    You should listen to the advice provided by several responders. Don’t waste time and money trimming straight walled cases. They don’t need it. You are trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.
     
    You should listen to the advice provided by several responders. Don’t waste time and money trimming straight walled cases. They don’t need it. You are trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

    I would ask that you re-read my post(s) #12 and #18 so you have a better understanding of the underlying issue. The issue is that of variances in OAL of brass from different manufacturers in a given reloading batch and how those variances influence static die settings and influence the crimp die's ability to crimp consistently.
    It has been suggested that I should just buy brass with "one manufacturer's headstamp". I wholeheartedly agree that would solve the variances in OAL issue and the underlying problem. But, it entirely discounts the attraction of buying "once fired brass" from an economics standpoint. To buy one manufacturer's headstamp brass relegates a person to buying new brass, which is 3 to 4 times as expensive as once fired/mixed headstamp.

    Also give some consideration to the likelihood that pistol brass is trimmed to (consistent) length when originally manufactured, making an individual manufacturer's brass, for all intents and purposes, the same length. I do not believe, nor am I concerned about the brass growing in length through subsequent firings. I do not believe that happens. What I wish to do is make different manufacturer's brass all the same length, thereby allowing me to set my dies so that ultimately, all loaded rounds (of various manufacturer's brass) have the same amount of crimp applied. Ten plus thousandth's of an inch in brass OAL at a minimum, is quite a bit of variance, particularly when there is no way to compensate for those variances "on the fly".
     
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    Yep, I replaced the RCBS sizing die with a Lee 3 die set (Sizer, Seater and Crimper). That did make a hell of an improvement. You are spot on about the (RCBS) Sizer die, it wasn't squeezing the mouth down anywhere close to far enough. With the Lee Sizer, the bullets are tighter, much more consistently.
    For giggles, I just grabbed a handful of cleaned, non-resized, once fired 9mm brass to measure case OAL;

    WCC .7435"
    WCC .7415"
    R-P .7405"
    GFL .7390"
    GFL .7450"
    WIN .7365"
    WIN .7460"
    Norma .7390"
    IVI .7470"

    So, with randomly selected brass OAL between .7365" and .7470", the min/max spread is over .010". These dimensions pretty much encapsulate the point I'm trying to make. I have no expectation that the Lee die set will be able to cover that span, even if I do set the Taper Crimp die up for halfway between min/max. I was really quite unhappy with the RCBS Sizer. I think I may have turned it into dump fodder. If it did that shitty of a job on a simple resizing operation, there's no sense in keeping it around to just continue to cause problems. Conversely, I have been quite happy with the Lee three die set.

    I have done some headstamp sorting, but that is not a long term solution that I would entertain. If I'm going to spend that kind of time, it's going to be spent processing (trimming ) brass through the XL 650. I think I'm going to continue to look and see if I can find a Dillon "like" Trimmer set up. I'm not warm to the idea of building my own, but if I can't find something COTS, I may have to.

    BTW, do any of you guys possibly have a line on a Dillon "like" Trimmer Motor besides just a Dremel ? I'll take a look at Foredom's website for giggles. That motor realistically shouldn't be more than $100. Dillon gets a lot of money for their trimmer (assuming you are trying to trim CF rifle). The die/motor mount fixture, I'll have to make myself.

    It’s worth the effort to worry about 0.010” on pistol brass. Now that you have the Lee dies and snug seated bullets set your crimp like you described above and be done. This is how 100% of pistol ammo is reloaded. If there was a market for pistol trimming Dillon would have it available for their press mounted trimmer.
     
    I reload a lot of once fired 9mm range brass. It's all different manufacturers. I find that there is significant variance in OAL between manufactures. I run a Lee seater and a seperate taper crimp die. With variations in brass length, some loaded rounds get crimped just fine, others not enough and then, some too much. I would really like to have a trimmer for my Dillon 650 that I could trim all brass to the same length. Would save me a lot of headaches trying to find a happy medium for the depth of the taper crimp die. When properly seated and crimped, the bullets won't spin in the case when turned by hand.

    This is more along the lines of what I was getting at.

    Whidden can make trim dies for the Dillon. Talk to Wiley. You'll probably need a short trim die head though.

    I'm just still trying to see if it's worth it, these custom trim dies ain't cheap.
     
    It’s worth the effort to worry about 0.010” on pistol brass. Now that you have the Lee dies and snug seated bullets set your crimp like you described above and be done. This is how 100% of pistol ammo is reloaded. If there was a market for pistol trimming Dillon would have it available for their press mounted trimmer.

    I use Lee crimp dies for pretty much every round I load. They just work. But what Threadcutter's saying is that different length cases will crimp differently. For a taper crimp they may all come out looking okay, but the crimp isn't the same, one will be tighter than the other.

    Dillon only makes trim dies for calibers that are commonly requested. They didn't even make 6.5G, I had to custom that one. Now I can understand not enough people calling about pistol brass to make 'em, but I can still understand some folks may have a need for it. Or maybe I think I do. I don't know. I'm just going by the book. Like I said, it's been years since I loaded pistol brass. Shit, maybe 8 years?
     
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    But what Threadcutter's saying is that different length cases will crimp differently. For a taper crimp they may all come out looking okay, but the crimp isn't the same, one will be tighter than the other.

    Correct. The crimps are not consistent. But brass thickness at the case mouth is also hugely inconsistent... compare paper-thin, soft FC or Blazer brass with thicker, harder CBC brass, for example. Your size die is going to squeeze thick and thin brass to the same outside dimension, you cram in a bullet, and guess what? The thicker brass is already holding the bullet tighter before you ever crimp it. And then the crimp die will squeeze it even more.

    I use polymer-coated bullets for most of my pistol shooting. Another relatively huge variable - the tolerances are wider than any decent jacketed bullet, and those jacketed bulk bullets are in no way "target" tolerance rounds. So why get anal about brass when I'm loading a kinda-the-right-size-and-weight bullet into it?

    I've loaded tens of thousands of 9mm and other tapered-case rounds over the years... When I first started, I would sort, trim, etc. I finally learned that, for shooting targets 10-20 yards away, all that effort was a complete, total waste of time. For applications where I need optimal accuracy, I use once-fired brass from the same manufacturer loaded with good jacketed bullets.
     
    I finally learned that, for shooting targets 10-20 yards away, all that effort was a complete, total waste of time. For applications where I need optimal accuracy, I use once-fired brass from the same manufacturer loaded with good jacketed bullets.

    This.... except that for optimal accuracy, I use once or twice fired brass that was bought new and shot only in my pistol. But, ultimately, for the stuff I was doing, I only needed acceptable accuracy. Reliability was the bigger concern in the ammo.

    I understand the concern about consistent crimp, but as has been pointed out, with mixed headstamp brass, you're not going to get a consistent crimp. For most small capacity cartridges running fast powder (ie, 9mm), think about the crimp die as something you're using just to get the bell back out of the case mouth. Find your longest cases and make sure that you're not crimping them through the coating or jacket on the bullet - just getting them into complete contact with the bullet. Then take the shorter cases, and make sure the bell is removed so that you don't have a feeding problem. Done.
     
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    But what Threadcutter's saying is that different length cases will crimp differently. For a taper crimp they may all come out looking okay, but the crimp isn't the same, one will be tighter than the other.
    Exactly, thanks Stryker.

    Downhill; Got it and agreed about brass thickness at case mouth. Either I don't get much variation of thickness from mfr to mfr, or, it just doesn't manifest itself as a problem. Because there is no logical way to deal with those variations, case wall thickness is not a windmill that I would spend any time jousting with.

    My goal is simple. I don't want bullets spinning in the loaded case because of light crimps, nor do I want distorted cases because of excessive crimps. These two conditions are the result of variations in case OAL. You can only set your crimp die up for one length in a loading batch. It is wholly impractical to chase the crimp pressure around by adjusting your die for each round. And, if I have a choice between sorting brass by mfr (OAL) or trimming to consistent length (once), I'm gonna trim. Screw sorting brass over and over.

    edit;
    Find your longest cases and make sure that you're not crimping them through the coating or jacket on the bullet - just getting them into complete contact with the bullet. Then take the shorter cases, and make sure the bell is removed so that you don't have a feeding problem. Done.

    Agreed ;):cool:
     
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    My goal is simple. I don't want bullets spinning in the loaded case because of light crimps, nor do I want distorted cases because of excessive crimps.
    I think we're all in "violent agreement" here... It's only been in the last few years that I've encountered such large differences in 9mm brass case length and mouth thickness - it coincided with me shooting 5-10x more pistol ammo after I retired, and began hoovering up brass wherever I could find it.

    Early on, I was shooting 9mm Glocks and SIGs. I never encountered a feeding problem. I never gaged my reloaded ammo. It just worked. I had brass so old the headstamps were almost gone. I'm using '70s-vintage RCBS dies (taper crimp die) in a Dillon 550.

    Then I bought a 1911-based 9mm with good sights. WHAM. I hit the wall. Every 5 rounds or so, I'd have a round jammed so tight that getting the slide open safely was a major challenge. Same thing happened with CZs purchased by myself and my son.

    So I bought a case gage (again, Wilson spells it "gage"). I quickly learned that CBC-headstamped cases are almost always the shortest OAL with the thickest, hardest brass which resulted in the highest number of gage-fails - the resized case would drop right into the gage, but seating and crimping a bullet (jacketed or polymer) resulted in many over-thick rounds. I played A LOT with resizing and crimping to see if I could eliminate this brand-specific issue. Long story short, I just accept that CBC brass is going to have more rejects because the brass is thick. Every Single One of these "rejected" rounds has worked just fine in my Glocks and SIGs. Sample size is in the thousands. The reloads that pass the gage test run flawlessly in all the tighter-chambered pistols - again, sample size in thousands.

    I learned that FC, Blaser, and Speer was super soft and seldom gives any trouble. GFL, Starline, most others are usually good to go. I learned that R-P case heads are subjectively "small" and cases that look the least bit beat up are going to fail the gage test so I just scrap them. Winchester cases do fine usually. Cases with military-style headstamps - I usually encounter WCC - are generally ok but the primer pocket shoulder is so sharp that seating a new primer has to be done carefully to avoid tilting/crushing the primer. PPU cases are scrapped. Period. I don't even bother with them.

    My powder measure is set to bell the shortest (CBC) cases enough to allow the thicker polymer-coated bullets to seat easily. This results in a bit too much bell for longer cases, but I have yet to have a long case split at the mouth.

    Crimping is set just enough to remove the bell. No more. I read someplace that, in tapered cases, it's the "shelf" created by seating the bullet into the resized case, not the crimp, that prevents the bullet from pushing into the case when it hits the feed ramp. It's important to reiterate that I spent a lot of time trying to adjust crimping to get rounds that had failed the gage test to subsequently pass. Never happened. So, the crimp is set to minimal. (Caveat: this applies to tapered cases, NOT straight-walled stuff like .357/.44 Magnum where a strong rolled crimp into the cannelure is mandatory!)

    Now, some cases that have been loaded a few times and/or fired in Glocks or other firearms with huge chambers simply won't resize to factory spec because the case web (solid part of the head) expands, and it can't be resized by standard dies. Had a good discussion with Dillon about that. I encounter very, very few of these.

    Hope this helps.
     
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    I'm figuring since you will need to trim your brass only once to get concistant.
    Would a lyman type setup with the powered shaft not work?

    I get the time factor, maybe you find a friend to help and share some ammo for thier efforts.
    Maybe a new shooter or an old retired one with time but fixed income.

    Might take the hassle out of it for you?

    I understand wanting concistant brass, I tumble, size and retumble new virgin brass
    just to build up the polish the same as my fired rounds.
     
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    I quickly learned that CBC-headstamped cases are almost always the shortest OAL with the thickest, hardest brass which resulted in the highest number of gage-fails - the resized case would drop right into the gage, but seating and crimping a bullet (jacketed or polymer) resulted in many over-thick rounds.

    FWIW... Lee makes a solution for this problem, too - the Factory Crimp Die. It incorporates a carbide ring, much like a size die but a little bigger, that helps even out stuff that's gotten "overly thick". A lot of folks shooting .40 in tighter chambered guns also run into a problem with brass that's been shot in Glocks where the bases of the cases have expanded more than a typically size die will fix. Lee also makes an undersize size die that resolves that issue. I haven't loaded much 9x19 in a long time, but I recall there being some debate about which size die to use to get the right amount of sizing, but not to "Coke bottle" the cases (the Dillon die would typically leave the case decidedly weird looking after the round was assembled), so I don't specifically have experience with those dies in 9x19.

    I don't think either of those is the OP's problem, but maybe someone will find that info useful at some point.

    Cases with military-style headstamps - I usually encounter WCC - are generally ok but the primer pocket shoulder is so sharp that seating a new primer has to be done carefully to avoid tilting/crushing the primer.

    Insert sales pitch for the Dillon 1050 :ROFLMAO:

    I've never used that feature on mine - I got it for volume of production - but a buddy was running a lot of once-fired military stuff in his 9x19 racegun, and the primer pocket swager was irreplaceable for him...

    Now, some cases that have been loaded a few times and/or fired in Glocks or other firearms with huge chambers simply won't resize to factory spec because the case web (solid part of the head) expands, and it can't be resized by standard dies. Had a good discussion with Dillon about that. I encounter very, very few of these.

    Dillon dies won't address it - they're nice dies, but they're designed for smoothness of press operation, so they have more flare at the bottom than some others. This is the problem the U-die I mentioned above was meant to fix. (y) Luckily, it's not as big of an issue in 9x19, as you say.
     
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    Yeah, this I've seen. I was using N110, healthy charges in a 686+6". But I've seen others stretch too, wanna say 10mm (it's been a while since I loaded pistol ammo at all) and even others.



    Not "stuff to do" at all. I'm using a 650. It will cost money for the custom dies though, around $550 all said and done for four calibers. So I'll wait and see, I know most people don't trim pistol brass but I'm gonna be loading thousands of pieces and I can't stop to measure each piece. A trimmer would be much, much faster. For instance, I trim all my rifle brass all the time, whether it needs it or not. If it needs it, it gets it. If it doesn't, it just passes through. I guess I'll have to wait until I get back into it and see how it works out.

    I got the pilots and stuff for the cheap RCBS trimmer that comes with the basic press from way back when. I still use the small press for all sorts of little things, but I don't touch the trimmer. Once you get a Dillon 1500RT trimmer and a 650 press, it's damn hard to go back to the old way.

    This could be a good thing though. Because Dillon doesn't sell trim dies for pistol brass, it means that most folks aren't calling for 'em and hence aren't trimming. That'd be nice. We'll see. It's been a while since I loaded for the pistol.

    Thanks for the replies and advice!

    While it could happen today; I've NEVER measured any pistol cases other than for just plain curiosity!! Rifle cases are a different matter!! Trust me, I believe the urge to trim handgun cases will pass unless you really are lacking for something to do! I believe you would b e better served to work on increasing your overall knowledge and skills in the various facets of reloading than spending time trimming handgun cases. Just my thoughts!!