Yes some of the best cans use different baffles in them. Go over to form 1.org and there is a list of all the vendors, a little research there and some questions and get all the info you need.
Anyone ever go the Form 1 suppressor route?
- Thread starter TheGerman
- Start date
I tried to go there a few times and I couldn't figure out where anything was??? I could only really see a few threads and that's it. I finally gave up trying to find anything there. Does it not really work unless you register or something?
Yes I think you need to make an account to view everything. Plus the site was new as of a few months ago so there wasn’t a lot of material, due to the fact that the original site got nuked because of commie server hosts or something. It’s been growing though and lots of info is there now with several recipes for the more standard caliber cans. Most guys there will definitely answer questions if you ask as well, but do a little research first since a lot of questions have already been answered. Overall it’s a pretty friendly community.
Ok, I will register then. I just filed another form 1 last week and mailed off my prints today. Is the best way to just search key words to find threads that talk about it or what exactly? Thanks for the input btw
I don't do FB so the site will have to do. Hopefully I will get some good info. I'd like to make one that works really well for a bolt gun and am considering 1.75" can. Don't want to muck up this thread though, so thank you for the help
You’ll find what you need. Make a design and then post it up for suggestions. The knowledge over there can produce a form1 can just as nice as any form4.
You won't need 1.75od until you're up in some pretty large calibers. Most can be accomplished, successfully, with 1.625od.
You will definitely appreciate form1.org, some of us in this thread are over there too, and would be happy to help. Its not quite the Bear Pit, but one needs to ask directed questions. Lots of folks join up, and their first thread is almost always, "hey, I want a can for my 300bo, that sounds like a mouse fart. Tell me how to do that".
I found that my state is one of few that bans them. So, maybe I’ll make one on the down low.
lmfaoI tried checking out the form1 page but it’s not working on my phone. I’ll grab my pc and try and register. Thanks for the tips in this thread. Very helpful. Going to be researching a lightweight 6.5 and 30 cal can. I should have a TBAC U7 Gen 1 out of jail around Feb 2022, but I have access to a pretty nice lathe and mill so building one appeals to me.
1.5 OD x 8.5" long tube with 9 single clipped Dino Precision Cones. 3.25" ish BC, progressive spacing from .75" down to .375. is what I use on my Bergara 6.5 CM. Use a Dino medium for your BB. They weren't around when I built mine.
"I was vaguely aware you fired your gun" per the last guy who was lined up next to me.
50* Dinos first half followed by PPA 50* super dupers work even better than all Dinos, also 3.25" is pretty big for BC unless you are trying to suppress 30 cal mag or bigger.
This market and sport is hard enough to keep going. Please don't advocate illegal actions in this thread, on this site, or any other for that matterI found that my state is one of few that bans them. So, maybe I’ll make one on the down low.
Did my first with a holder made from wood, a junky drill press, some round files, a drill, a pipe cutter, and sandpaper on a counter top.
There is a software update/server migration, happening this weekend.
TBac U7 will be an awesome benchmark. I do not own one, but it is a stellar performer.
Fair point, but it a 7.5 tube didn't give me as much as I wanted; 8.5 was a bit longer than needed.
Yeah I know it can be done but it's a lot easier with lathe. I'm going to try on one of my medium wood lathes again. Last time it didn't drill well because it was pretty thick titanium and I didn't have the ideal bit. If that doesn't work, I will use my drill press I guess or maybe my gunsmith buddy will let me use his big lathe after hours or something. He'd do it but it would take forever because he's always got other stuff he's got his guy running. Kind of bs really because it doesn't take that long but maybe since he's more set up for it now it won't be an issue this time
Yeah down here where us red necks do the elite space program stuff.....
There are sweet jigs available. If you make it to the form1 board, check out Number40Fan , he'll have what you need. It will hold a drill bushing at center, so you can punch even a hand drill through it.
This was mine; .375 bore on the cone in the holder. Done with a step bit, and a Craftsman drill press that I can almost stop with my hand.....
Just like the decibel level dropping so will go my bank account... great thread
B
Right on, that might be what I do. I have registered and been there just a little bit. I did it on the computer instead of phone and it was much better. Thanks for the help!!! I appreciate it. My first form 1 can turned out very nice and it works well, but I think I can do much better and I want one with cups vs the way my other one is where the baffles screw together with a long skirt on each one.
It's a damned fine option dammit.
Learned from Joe L before he was a celebrity (I was Ltdshooter40 on the old Form 1 board; I think I'm on the new ones too, but haven't been in a while).Hey hey! I remember you then!It's a damned fine option dammit.
Let’s talk about baffle clipping and venting for a moment since some of the people contributing to this thread have a lot more experience with this than others.
Clipping- Consensus seems to be that they help, potentially a lot and that single aligned clips are better than double. When digging around there are reports that either can potentially affect POI and accuracy, 2 less so than 1. For you guys that have clipped your baffles, have you seen a degradation in accuracy on your precision rifles? Has clipping caused a baffle strike? How much more effective (subjectively/objectively if you have measured) are clipped baffles compared to none? How much more effective is single clipping baffles than double clipping? Does alignment matter at all with double clipped baffles? Is double clipping the first baffle and then single clipping the rest the way to go?
Venting- Does venting a baffle also accomplish the same thing as clipping a baffle? Does venting have impacts of POI? The goal with venting appears to reduce overall pressure and equalize pressure in the can, which is helpful with back pressure in semi autos. Is there a downside. I.e. are vented baffles louder than non vented baffles?
Ultimately, if you have a rifle that shoots 1/3-1/2 MOA are you maintaining that accuracy using clipped, vented baffles?
Clipping- Consensus seems to be that they help, potentially a lot and that single aligned clips are better than double. When digging around there are reports that either can potentially affect POI and accuracy, 2 less so than 1. For you guys that have clipped your baffles, have you seen a degradation in accuracy on your precision rifles? Has clipping caused a baffle strike? How much more effective (subjectively/objectively if you have measured) are clipped baffles compared to none? How much more effective is single clipping baffles than double clipping? Does alignment matter at all with double clipped baffles? Is double clipping the first baffle and then single clipping the rest the way to go?
Venting- Does venting a baffle also accomplish the same thing as clipping a baffle? Does venting have impacts of POI? The goal with venting appears to reduce overall pressure and equalize pressure in the can, which is helpful with back pressure in semi autos. Is there a downside. I.e. are vented baffles louder than non vented baffles?
Ultimately, if you have a rifle that shoots 1/3-1/2 MOA are you maintaining that accuracy using clipped, vented baffles?
First I have only done load development with the suppressor on, my rifle which is a production rifle will shoot consistently just under 1/2 MOA. When I say just under, last 10 group average is .487" I have shot 1/4 MOA but not consistently, 1/2 MOA is the best I can get with my reloads and my rifle. Now I have shot without the suppressor just to see POI shift and my rifle will shoot 1" low and 1/2" right. I always shoot suppressed, I align all clips (single) in the same position in the can so when I thread the can on my rifle the clips are always aligned at 12:00.
Single clips seem to work best for supersonic ammo and even some subsonic ammo, double clips work well with suppressing pistol rounds, now all clipping is subjective, really depends on host weapon, but supers out of a bolt action single clips are definitely best. I have found single clips work best on my gas guns also, yes it can make for gas in the face but the suppressor is doing it's job if there is back pressure. Some with use adjustable gas blocks, bolt carriers or change buffers and springs, but again this is all host dependent. You can double clip and back pressure will be reduced but so will suppression.
I have not vented baffles and I have no experience with venting baffles. Your accuracy if anything will improve, also I gain velocity with a suppressor (average 30 FPS) at least that is what my magnetospeed tells me suppressed vs. unsuppressed.
Single clips seem to work best for supersonic ammo and even some subsonic ammo, double clips work well with suppressing pistol rounds, now all clipping is subjective, really depends on host weapon, but supers out of a bolt action single clips are definitely best. I have found single clips work best on my gas guns also, yes it can make for gas in the face but the suppressor is doing it's job if there is back pressure. Some with use adjustable gas blocks, bolt carriers or change buffers and springs, but again this is all host dependent. You can double clip and back pressure will be reduced but so will suppression.
I have not vented baffles and I have no experience with venting baffles. Your accuracy if anything will improve, also I gain velocity with a suppressor (average 30 FPS) at least that is what my magnetospeed tells me suppressed vs. unsuppressed.
First rule of clipping baffles is always clip always.
A silencer works by capturing hot gases and allowing them to cool and drop in pressure, before exiting the can at a much lower velocity (quieter). You've got a laminar flow of blast coming out of your muzzle that wants to exit straight out the bore of your can. Clips peel off some of that flow into the baffle. Single clips - greater suppression (both subs and supers) and POI shift (~1 MOA IIRC). Double - lower performance and POI shift. Clips should be aligned, single or double. There's data out there to confirm all of this. In terms of accuracy, most of what I've seen says a can will improve it. I zero my guns with the can I plan to use on them, so POI shift hasn't been an issue for me.
There are instances where venting cones may be of value, but they're rare, which is why most commercial cans don't use them. A can with vented cones won't suppress as well as a non-vented.
I think it's pretty well agreed on that all baffles should be single clipped and aligned for most cans for pure sound performance purposes.
Not to sound like a jackass, but the Form 1 community knows what works and has test data to prove it.
Keep in mind that Griffin and the other Form 4 manufacturers have a different charter than Form 1 builders. Their customers are dropping a healthy chunk of money and waiting close to a year for their cans. Therefore, they try to make them work across as many applications as possible and minimize POI shift, frequently at the expense of suppression. I own one of the previous gen Optimus and my better Form 1 cans blow it away, by a huge margin.
So, this is a mouthful. The guys have already nailed clipping, for the most part, so I won't repeat it. Always Be Clipping.
I will add; it is either Dead Air, or Tbac, who doesn't clip first and last. Its claimed to be a precision oriented thing. I should probably read more about it, but regardless, its been said. And I'm sure they have data that I'm not privy to, to back it up.
Vented baffles. These are often found in any can that goes up for Mil testing; as it is used as weep, or drainage holes, for water. In the event one went swimming
. They are also used, primarily for semi-auto use, to help reduce backpressure into the weapon. Good suppression can still be had using this method, overall can design would just change a little.POI shift can, and will, occur. Often the bullet will pull towards the clip path. This is why some folks will either time, or adjust baffles, so the clips are at 12 o'clock. When doing this, it can also offset the shift caused by hanging a weight off the end of your barrel.
Double clips are known to help reduce POI shift, and are less picky about their alignment. They are used more in low pressure applications; like some pistol cans, or a short rimfire can.
The cans I have, were designed for their hosts. But when going from braked to suppressed, for the first time, I had impacts on steel without a problem.
Submitted 3 Form 1s on 11/7. Just received 2 of them back today 12/1. Not sure why the 3rd didn’t come back with the others but hopefully it’ll also be approved pretty soon…like hopefully tomorrow. Lol.
I have no sound measuring equipment and have only directly compared two of my builds to commercial cans. My 7.5" all Dino 30 cal can was noticeably quieter than my friend's AAC 762. After just the first round he was amazed. Both on 16" carbine gas 556 guns. Other was my $180 5.9" XRT build versus the Sparrow on our 10/22s. Again the XRT seemed quiter with a much deeper pleasant tone. I was suprised by that as the XRT cones are a pretty standard design. For a first time quality kit I would go with the White Trash Tactical 7.5" MILF hunter kit. Everything is top notch. There are also skilled machinists that will trim the skirts of your cones for $5 each for those that want max performance with progressive spacing. Hawkstand is the man in that regard.
As mentioned, grab a Number40fan Jig and a vise.
The last $10 part of the equation is a membership to SilencerStudents Patreon channel. For $10 you will have access to hundreds of detailed videos addressing every possible question you could have.
My first build was a straight up copy of his Dino build. As a result, my next build was for a different system since there was no "improving" on that build. The first time I fired 300blk out supers with my Dino can, I was concerned I had a squib round! I also use adjustable gas blocks on all but one of my rifles. As a result, my rifles are quieter than most airguns with comparable recoil. Once I get on paper when sighting in a rifle I never again shoot it unsuppressed, except for my most recent "go-to" 14.5" build.
Perhaps the greatest part of Form 1 is building specifically what you want. My new build has a fixed gas block, but even with a vented charging handle and Vltor A5H3 the recoil and gas was more than I wanted with my 7.5" PPA Super Duper 556 can that stays on my wife's 10.5" AR.
I built a 5.5" K style can similiar to the YHM Turbo, but it utilizes 3 Dino baffles after the diffusion wall. The cones are drilled to 9/32, but to help with the back pressure I drilled the endcap to 3/8". Although I haven't had the opportunity to compare it head to head against the YHM I'm nearly certain it will have better suppression as well as better recoil and backpressure characteristics. Since the rifle is perfectly gassed unsuppressed, I went with a Bootleg adjustable BCG.
The part of the equation no one talks about it how filthy suppressed guns get. I can shoot a single mag suppressed and the receivers will accrue more fouling than 15 mags w/o the suppressor. That makes it more complex to balance gas settings. Being able to tailor a build makes for alot less "troubleshooting".
As mentioned, grab a Number40fan Jig and a vise.
The last $10 part of the equation is a membership to SilencerStudents Patreon channel. For $10 you will have access to hundreds of detailed videos addressing every possible question you could have.
My first build was a straight up copy of his Dino build. As a result, my next build was for a different system since there was no "improving" on that build. The first time I fired 300blk out supers with my Dino can, I was concerned I had a squib round! I also use adjustable gas blocks on all but one of my rifles. As a result, my rifles are quieter than most airguns with comparable recoil. Once I get on paper when sighting in a rifle I never again shoot it unsuppressed, except for my most recent "go-to" 14.5" build.
Perhaps the greatest part of Form 1 is building specifically what you want. My new build has a fixed gas block, but even with a vented charging handle and Vltor A5H3 the recoil and gas was more than I wanted with my 7.5" PPA Super Duper 556 can that stays on my wife's 10.5" AR.
I built a 5.5" K style can similiar to the YHM Turbo, but it utilizes 3 Dino baffles after the diffusion wall. The cones are drilled to 9/32, but to help with the back pressure I drilled the endcap to 3/8". Although I haven't had the opportunity to compare it head to head against the YHM I'm nearly certain it will have better suppression as well as better recoil and backpressure characteristics. Since the rifle is perfectly gassed unsuppressed, I went with a Bootleg adjustable BCG.
The part of the equation no one talks about it how filthy suppressed guns get. I can shoot a single mag suppressed and the receivers will accrue more fouling than 15 mags w/o the suppressor. That makes it more complex to balance gas settings. Being able to tailor a build makes for alot less "troubleshooting".
That was a mouthful!
XRT Tactical, FTW in the rimfire game, period.
Mobil1 5W-30 FTW in suppressed firearms
What is interesting, or would be; there are a lot of Dead Air owners on this site. If some of them were to shoot with a buddy with a similar Dino can........or even build one themselves.
That baffle design is definitely a proven winner.
That baffle design is definitely a proven winner.
Does any have contact info for ( Armory Den ) ? , or happen to know anyone of their employees for contact ?
They list No Phone # anywhere on there website, that I can find . Not had good luck with their website generated emails .
....thanks
They list No Phone # anywhere on there website, that I can find . Not had good luck with their website generated emails .
....thanks
I sure appreciate all your information as I’ve been considering diving into this realm. I have a AAC7.62SD that has been modified by ECCO to mount to my area419 hellfire brake mounts which is light years ahead of the 51T, but it sure would be fun to build one. I have found that what you state above is absolutely true, it’s really dirty to run DI suppressed. I built a 10.5” pistol with a SA piston kit just to cut down on this and it‘s working out well so far. I know many are skittish of piston guns, but if you are running suppressed all the time, they are a better platform from my experience.
I see a minimum POI shift with my form 1 suppressor with clipped baffles. I went a different route than a lot of people. My F1 is 1.5"x9.5", rather large. I have 9 baffles in it, the first 2 are SS and the rest are TI. I used a mixture of Radial and standard taper for shooting subs and supers. I performed what is called a Hybrid clip and they are staggard to one another. It's a large can and suppression is better than most of the commercial cans out there. This was the First suppressor I ever had, and I was super impressed with it, but had no baseline. In my first PRS match with my 6.5 Creed everyone was asking me what kind of can it was, they were amazed it was so quiet. Never been on a real DB meter with it, but its tone is very pleasant. The spaced makes the blast chamber, then stacked as many baffles as would fit into the tube.
Been running this can for about 4 years now and has held up to 300wm. Its overbored a bit since runout can be an issue and I did not want a baffle strike. Here is a video of it running at a match. Video does not pickup sound well.
The 3 form 1 cans I just built are honestly pretty fantastic. People are going to hate, but I used 50 deg formed freeze plugs. 10 of them. Single clip w/ a waist clip on the first 5 and just single clipped on the last 5. SDTA titanium tube, cyclone muzzle brake, and their Anchor brake style end cap. Weight is 14oz. Accuracy is excellent…seems like it actually tightened my groups up a little…which is always welcome. My buddy has a SilencerCo Omega and these are quieter. The Anchor style brake also works very well. For less than a months wait and $320 I couldn’t be happier…just need a little paint and should be GTG.
I have got a 8'' Maverick Precision Tube that I am planning on making a 6.5 Can with. I would love to pick your brain some if you dont mind. I was a member back on THE form1 thread back before it got shut down.
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