I can't tell you how many times I read on forums, "new to the forum / AR platform,,,, which eotech or red dot with magnifier should I get????" As for those new to the AR platform, it is almost instinctive to automatically get a red dot / eotech because you just purchased an AR-15 or AR-10 and it is the " tacticool " thing to do or you think that is what you should do. Then continue to slap a bunch of stuff on your new AR that you don't need. Just passing on some of my experience and hopefully you can learn from some of my mistakes and wasted money / time in the past.
Red dots / Eotechs sights are great. IMO, they have a select purpose. I have personally owned an eotech EXPS2-0 with magnifier. Everyone's opinion is different. If red dots / eotechs work for you, then great! Keep on truckin. I'm seriously not bashing red dot / eotech fans. Everyone's purpose and opinion is different,,,,,,,,,, BUT in my experience with others and myself starting out with the AR platform they are more "tacticool" and less "practicool".
IMO, this is the <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">general timeline</span></span> of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">someone absolutely new</span></span> to the AR platform <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">(general humor here people, it's satire!! CALM DOWN!):</span></span>
Day#1.) purchase cheap ar-15 / ar-10 with plastic handguard.... something like a dpms sportical. At the time of your purchase you had no intention of getting an AR type platform rifle... You just happen to be walking by the rifle counter and thought it looked cool. Maybe it started with a gander mountain flyer and figured it was a rifle you could afford. This is where the addiction starts. You have absolutely no clue about AR's @ this time in your life. You will then..................
2.) replace plastic handguard with a cheap "drop in" 2pc quad rail off ebay or amazon.com. You will youtube "how to install a 2pc aluminum quad rail" at this time.
3.) put a bunch of other crap on the ar-15 that is not needed with some rail covers and possible flash light that you will never use. Maybe even a laser sight that is even more pointless. Finally realize there is such a thing as a free float rail which is much better than the 2pc "drop in" quad rail you just purchased from ebay and makes your AR much more accurate and wish your rifle had this option but oh well.... What I have is good enough but it really is not as you realize that you can NOT put your magpul front sight on your crappy 2pc "drop in" quad rail and wish to god you had a free float rail..... You will also slap on some BUIS (back up iron sights) that you will almost never use unless you are a hardcore S.O.B. at the rifle range while thinking you need BUIS for the classic SHTF armageddon moment in human history that will most likely never happen in your lifetime..... This is when you spend the next 4hours of your life on google doing research between "gas block" and "rail mounted" front sights.. Thinking to yourself,,,, damn you cheap ebay 2pc "drop in" quad rail, what the hell was I thinking???!!???!!! BTW, your front back up iron sight will be attached to your gas block and not your crappy 2pc "drop in" aluminum quad rail you got off amazon.com because you don't know how to install a free float tube.
4.) go on a bunch of forums asking which eotech or red dot to purchase.... maybe even acog because that is what the military uses so that is what I'll use regardless to the fact you can NOT afford an acog!!!.... You will then purchase a red dot or eotech at this time. You will google the word "parallax" at this time also!
5.) go to the shooting range and start shooting @ 25 yards, then move target to 50yards, then 75yards. At the 75 yard line you will wish you had magnification,,,, so at this point you will do this...
6.) purchase a magnifier for your red dot / eotech so you can shoot at 75yards, and then 100yards.... maybe even more. You might have already purchased the magnifier with your red dot / eotech as it looks really friggen cool on your rifle but didn't understand it slaps loads of weight on the rifle also. You will then figure out that the $200 to $500 magnifer you just purchased made marginal improvements to your set up in terms of accuracy. At this point you will think this
7.) wow, this red-dot or eotech with magnifier set up kinda puts on extra weight and I wish I had more magnification and more eye relief. You will then google "red dot / eotech magnifier eye relief" at this time. You will spend countless hours looking for a magnifer with better eye relief with a better magnifier mount as the standard primary arms magnifier mount really does $uck..... only to figure out that all red dot / eotech magnifiers are well under 3" eye relief!! what the hell!!!???!!! If your current set up is with an AR-10 .308 cal, then you just realized that with the massive kick that you are really screwed and that you have a black eye right about now due to the crappy eye relief....... Then this will happen... come on!! we have all done this!
8.) sell the entire rifle or put it in the safe, and get a whole new ar-15 / ar-10 with a free float handguard / rail as you've learned from your mistakes.... put 1/2 of the crap hanging off your old rifle onto the new rifle,,,,, and store the rest of the crap in a box that you will never see again or sell it..... maybe get a rifle with upgraded options with less " upgrading screwing around " as you are learning from your mistakes.
9.) NOW, at this point you ditch the red dot / eotech and just purchase a friggen scope as you finally realize that the whole red dot / eotech with magnifier is somewhat like a scope but with crappy eye relief and a somewhat blurry dot,,,,,,,, especially if you use the magnifier 80% of the time and is pushing the limit of being ridiculous slapping the magnifier back and forth when you only sit at a bench shooting paper targets on your a$$. This is when you make the forum post, "will a magnifier make my dot more clear?",,, or "will a magnifier increase the size of my red dot???"....... As you finally start to see the light and ask yourself, "why am I doing this magnifier nonsense,,, why don't I just get a scope???" you finally look into purchasing a nice scope. Maybe something like a nice vortex, NF, or SWFA SS scope with 1-4 OR 1-6 OR 2.5-10 power as you realize that you will only use your rifle for 80% target practice because you like to shoot @ 100yards and maybe a tad bit more, 18% for hunting, and I'll give you the 1% for the A-hole that breaks into your house for home defense and 1% for the classic SHTF armageddon moments that will most likely never happen in your lifetime. Those of you that are really bad a$$ and act like you are taking over 800yard shots when your local range only has a max 100yards / maybe 200yards will purchase most likely a 4-16 power and above power scope. At this time you will post on a forum or google the following questions,,,, "difference between moa and mil?",,,, "which is better moa/moa or mil/mil?",,,, and finally "FFP vs SFP scopes, which is better and why?". You will then spend the next 12hours of your life trying to figure out which scope to get only to come to the conclusion that most people that are hard core long range compitition bad a$$ shooters use mil scopes, old bastards that are stuck in their ways use moa (this is a joke people!! calm down!!),,, and never to get a moa/mil scope. Matching turrets / reticles are a good thing. Only mil/mil or moa/moa. This is when you google the word "milliradian". At this point, you will most likely have a mil/mil scope because everyone else on sniper's hide has one,,,,, regardless to the fact you live in the USA and have grown up with fractions all of your life and your local range is most likely in yards and not meters,,,,,,,,, and you're not even involved in competitive shooting with your friend sitting next to you calling out hits with a mil based spotting scope..... On a more serious note, mil's are easier than moa, but you don't know how to convert the math at your local 300yard range because you were too busy sleeping in middle school math class. You know you're really screwed if you can't answer this question. If I give you a dozen apples and you give me 3/4 of them back, then how many apples to I have??
10.) now that you have a nice mil/mil scope with your middle school math level,,,, you will then ponder how barrel length affects accuracy & bullet FPS,,,,, but what about the added weight to the rifle???... which is better? you will never know! 16", 18", 20", or 24" length? which should I get? there is no right choice! only purpose! after all that, then you need to figure out the type of barrel.... chromoly, chrome lined, or stainless????... what about rifle twist rates? sheesshh. have fun with this....
11.) just when you think it is all said and done & you've fixed all of your mistakes,,,, you will then sell your entire rifle set up again and put that money towards a really high end OBR, GAP-10, or possible LMT because that is what everyone else is doing on sniper's hide so it's got to be the right thing to do!!??!!?? Right??? This is when you make a posting called, "OBR vs Gap-10, which is better??" as you realize that you are about to spend well over $3,000 dollars for a single rifle and that doesn't even include optics, mount, caps, and a sling. You will then be out of money to purchase the ammo. Just get ready for the WAIT time as you will have plenty of it... About 5 to 10 months to think about the massive amount of money you just spent on one bad a$$ rifle..... Think you are done? Think again! IT NEVER ENDS!
12.) now that you have a bad a$$ .308 AR-10 platform you finally realize that ammo is killing your pocket $$$$$$... reloading is a whole different ball of wax......................
13.) you will now put much more thought into your purchases as you've just wasted loads of money and time.
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humor people.... just humor! come on, laugh a little! Hehehe. some of the crap on my post i seriously went thru and the rest I just made up.... like the lights and lasers,,,, i've never purchased in my life... and I still use BUIS!!! come on, some of you are telling me you've never gone thru atleast 1 part of my made up timeline? I never intended my timeline to be so serious nor anyone to take so serious. Guess all I'm saying is think out your purchases and learn from other people's mistakes from reading forums like sniper's hide. Like my timeline states, someone new to the AR platform.... yes yes, I know,,,, some of you are more bad a$$ than others... little less defense and a little more humor in your life. Someone absolutely NEW to the AR platform that doesn't even know what a 2pc NON-floating quad rail could seriously learn something from my post and from reading forums like sniper's hide.
Everyone's rifles are different, they all have different purposes, and what ever works best for you! One nice thing about the great USA, everyone can have an opinion.
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Nostradumbass actually posted this and it was so funny that I had to put it into my original post. Funny as $hit video:
Most Tactical AR15... EVER! - YouTube
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Just an FYI on my set up... She is a heavy beast (one of the most important things to consider when building an AR rifle).... It's a bench rifle and I use it in my ultimate tree stand in the sky for deer hunting / sitting on my ass all day long (tree stand has a nice 360 shooting rail around it). You could prob use deer hunting / walking thru the woods with the help of the 3point sling and would take the bipod / adapter off for less weight, but is most likely something you would not want to drag thru the woods all day long. My rifle is geared around 80% long distance target practice (100yards and plus) and 20% deer hunting off my tree stand. So far, this is my dream gun and is the most I've spent on a rifle to date hands down:
* LMT MWS .308 with 20" chrome lined barrel. Went with the 20" as I'm not building a carbine and really wanted something to go over 600yards plus for target practice shooting / bench rifle. Stainless steel barrel would be nice, but I've shot enough chrome lined barrels in my day to know that there is next to no difference in accuracy IMO and I really like the durability of the chrome lined... Still cant go wrong with a nice stainless steel barrel tho! Got mine from kentucky gun company. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Usually can get around $2300 to $2500 dollars</span></span> would personally not pay over $2500 unless it was a SS barrel.
* Larue QD LT158 scope mount. Has the built in 10moa cant for long distance shooting. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Damn near $200 mount</span></span>
* Vortex viper PST 4-16x50 FFP scope. Big fan of the FFP (front focal plane) scopes... Will hold zero thru out all magnification levels unlike a SFP scope. I went with the MOA/MOA style as I'm stuck in my old man ways. LOL. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">About $700 to $800 bucks new.</span></span>
* Butler creek caps. They are cheap and work for me. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">about $20 bucks</span></span> for the front and back.
* using the LMT rail covers that came with rifle with some ladder rail covers. Ergo ladder rail covers off amazon pack of 3 for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">$10 bucks shipped.</span></span>
* YHM bipod adapter. Might want to consider a QD mount... I only take it off once a year for deer hunting, so went with the cheaper fixed mount in comparison to a nice larue QD bipod adapter. Off primary arms for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">about $20 bucks</span></span>
* Harris swivel (today's word is swivel!!!)style bipod with notched legs, 9" to 13" model (so my bipod just clears the 20round pmag). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">around $80 to $100 bucks</span></span>. IMO, one of the best bipods for the money.. Atlas would be nice if you can afford it.
* Blackhawk 3point sling, and using the QD swivels that came with my rifle. Got off amazon for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">$25 bucks</span></span>.
<span style="font-weight: bold">= so far i have invested a little over $3600 dollars!! all brand new. OUCH!</span>
* future purchase will be some type of offset red dot or possible DD RTS sight for possible deer running / walking past stand under 25yards situation which has happened to me before.
EDIT:
There is no right or wrong rifle. There is no right or wrong optic. What ever works best for you! All rifles and all optics have different purposes with different operators. In short, just think out your purchases and do some research before you dump your hard earned money.
My post is NOT about MOA's, MIL's, scopes are better than red dots, eotechs are better than scopes, blah blah blah. Just a humerous take on my own experience with some made up stuff from reading other people's forum posts.... If you see it any other way, then you are taking this forum post TOTALLY WRONG.... It is all about someone NEW starting out and for someone that has been there / done that to get a laugh or two (well, hopefully, can't make everyone happy..... atleast I try my best!!)....
When I first started with the AR platform I purchased a DPMS LR-308. It was a great rifle and rather accurate. BUT DAMN HEAVY!! OMG!! After about 2 scopes that LR-308 ended up with a SFP buckmaster 4-16 scope. It was a killer to drag thru the woods. Soon after I purchased a .308 DPMS oracle with a plastic hand guard. My oracle ended up with a 2pc drop in quad rail and some nice GG&G back up iron sights (yes, with the front sight on the damn gas block) with an eotech exps2 sight with a primary arms magnifier and a grip pod....... THE EYE RELIEF SUCKED A$$!!! It actually ended up turning out to be a nice little AR-10.. Well, I'm not going to list out every thing I did and every single accessory, but I had some serious money invested into those two rifles but all I really found myself doing was punching holes in paper at 100yards and beyond. I just wasn't totally happy with what I had.
I think it really boils down to is how serious you think you might be with this sport or hobby. What ever you might call it. Someone on here once said, buy once and cry once. After all the money and time I've spent starting out in the AR platform I'm really starting to believe what this person said. If I would've JUST done it right from the get go, then I could've purchased not only the LMT I currently have (from selling those two DPMS rifles),,, but another OBR to boot!!!!... I learned some info from those two rifles and I didn't make the same mistake when it came time to purchase my reloading equipment... Am I saying everyone needs to go out and buy GAP's, OBR's, and LMT's??? NO!!! Just think it out before you spend your money on rifles that might not fit your situation or gear / accessories like laser and flashlights!!! Maybe learn a thing or two like free float hand guards and such. It will atleast get you thinking about your future purchases like the difference between a SFP and FFP scope.. I'm not going to do the homework for ya, this you need to do on your own like everyone else that is rock-n-rolling on sniper's hide. Learn from other people's mistakes by reading forums like sniper's hide, google search, and reading loads of reviews.
I hope this helps those just starting out,,, while giving those that have been there / done that a good laugh.. atleast get you thinking about what someone else has been thru.
(just waiting for the reply from someone on how bad ass they are and how they never make any mistakes, start stop watch now,,,, will give it about 1 hour for this post)...
thank you .260ackley!! he totally get's it!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .260Ackley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a satire, people! That means there is NOTHING meant to be taken seriously! I can't say I'm surprised this thread is turning into a bunch of guys getting butt-hurt over something so trivial. It's pretty common and most people can't take a damn joke for what it is </div></div>
