Anyone here cast lead?
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Casting can be fun, check out this link as there is a wealth of info. Cast Boolits
I would forget the home plating idea, you would need some nasty chemicals, prob will get you on some watch list somewhere, let alone the potential of asphyxiating yourself.
Gas check them rifle boolits, keep em' em under 2000 fps and you should be good to go.
As for tin, you can just add some high tin content solder to your pot.
If you want harder boolits, you can find Linotype ingots all over the net, here is one place The Antimony Man - Bullet Metals
BTW the Lee 2nd edition manual has some recipes for 30-30, 308, and 30-06 using cast bullets and rifle powders. I would avoid using the pistol powder approach (just too much space for such a little charge). If you want a plinking round, then try Trail Boss. You can not overcharge a case and its very bulky. The loads in the Lee book will allow you to spin them boolits right up to 2000 fps with no problem.
I would forget the home plating idea, you would need some nasty chemicals, prob will get you on some watch list somewhere, let alone the potential of asphyxiating yourself.
Gas check them rifle boolits, keep em' em under 2000 fps and you should be good to go.
As for tin, you can just add some high tin content solder to your pot.
If you want harder boolits, you can find Linotype ingots all over the net, here is one place The Antimony Man - Bullet Metals
BTW the Lee 2nd edition manual has some recipes for 30-30, 308, and 30-06 using cast bullets and rifle powders. I would avoid using the pistol powder approach (just too much space for such a little charge). If you want a plinking round, then try Trail Boss. You can not overcharge a case and its very bulky. The loads in the Lee book will allow you to spin them boolits right up to 2000 fps with no problem.
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I have not done a lot of casting, but have dappled a bit. Great for heavy bullets for .45-70.
Spreadsheet to estimate hardness with various mixes, and lots of good info on their forum:
Lead alloy calculators
Tin is more to help flow and fill the mold out, where antimony really adds the hardness. Tin you can get from sources listed on their site, or get industrial solder in a 50/50 or 40/60 mix from various eBay vendors. May be sold as "bell wiping" solder.
For equipment, I use the propane burner from my turkey fryer. Small white gas camp stove should also work, but you really want a stable set-up and decent flame/temperature controls. Dutch oven would be great if you are doing a huge batch, but the stuff really is heavy. I normally do about 10lbs or less in a small stainless steel pot with a heavy/double bottom that I got at Goodwill for $2. Add in a cheap skimmer for $1, and a ladle, and maybe a cupcake tin for making ingots, and your cost are very low. Plus some really good gloves to keep from getting burned.
For low pressure loads, the lead really does not need to be that hard. You can find various discussions and theories.
A Few Comments on Cast Bullet Alloys** by Glen E
Spreadsheet to estimate hardness with various mixes, and lots of good info on their forum:
Lead alloy calculators
Tin is more to help flow and fill the mold out, where antimony really adds the hardness. Tin you can get from sources listed on their site, or get industrial solder in a 50/50 or 40/60 mix from various eBay vendors. May be sold as "bell wiping" solder.
For equipment, I use the propane burner from my turkey fryer. Small white gas camp stove should also work, but you really want a stable set-up and decent flame/temperature controls. Dutch oven would be great if you are doing a huge batch, but the stuff really is heavy. I normally do about 10lbs or less in a small stainless steel pot with a heavy/double bottom that I got at Goodwill for $2. Add in a cheap skimmer for $1, and a ladle, and maybe a cupcake tin for making ingots, and your cost are very low. Plus some really good gloves to keep from getting burned.
For low pressure loads, the lead really does not need to be that hard. You can find various discussions and theories.
A Few Comments on Cast Bullet Alloys** by Glen E
Straight wheel weights can/do work very well, and do cast a bit better with a small amount of Linotype-maybe 10%-but are okay as is. Get a good 800d thermometer to regulate your melt temp at around 725-750. Drop bullets in cold water and let them harden for a day or two and you'll get around 20-22 Brinnell, plenty hard enough for magnum pistol velocity- and maybe a bit too hard for target type shooting. Do go to cast boolit site- it's excellent resource.
Get the Lyman cast bullet book. It's got all the info you need. I gave it up a while ago - I'm paranoid about lead poisoning. It's really not so hard. You basically play around with alloy, temperature, and make sure you use enough flux.
buy Lee 2nd ed.manual and Lyman cast bullet book and read them FIRST_ I'm quite happy with all Lee casting products, (molds,electric melter,alox lube,etc.) _ really BIG saving for .357 and .44_ tried successfully in 8x57js, and not-so-successfully in .308, under the wiew point of my ballistic results_ (my fault or lazyness,I suppose)_ mandatory gas checks and welder's ANTI SPLATTER: sprayed on the molds before pouring inside them the lead, for my is a magic wand to avoid any sticking of the bullets in the mold_ good work!
Another vote for the cast boolit site.
Wheel weights used to be just about perfect for casting bullets -- that is, they had the right mixture of lead, tin and antimony. They don't now. The "problem" with using modern straight wheel weights is that they have minimal antimony content, so the alloy isn't as hard as it used to be, and there isn't any tin in it, so it does not fill out the mold as well. This causes undersized bullets. That is, if you want to use a .452 cast bullet in .45 ACP (most do), and you buy a mold that is said to cast a .452 bullet, it actually will cast somewhere in the .450-.451 range, which is too small.
Lyman molds, for instance, are "calibrated" to throw the correct size when using the Lyman #2 alloy (5 percent tin, 5 percent antimony and 90 percent lead). Using straight wheel weights without adding tin causes bullets to be undersized. I learned this after casting 1000 .38 bullets with a new mold. I wanted .358 and they were coming out at .355-.356, so they'd rattle down the bore.
I'm having another custom mold made for .45, and the manufacturer also cuts their molds to cast the correct size using the Lyman #2 alloy.
You do not need 5 percent tin to fill out the mold; 2 percent should do it. Add linotype until the bullets come out the correct diameter. I can't recall the specifics, but the 5 percent tin/5 percent antimony mix in the Lyman alloy causes a particular level of hardness and toughness.
By the way, you have to be careful when smelting wheel weights. Many now are iron or zinc. Iron weights won't cause problems because they'll just float to the top and can be removed. The zinc will melt into the alloy and "poison" it so that it does not fill out the molds correctly. In a bucket of 150 pounds of wheel weights, I'm running close to 30 percent loss after sorting out the iron and zinc weights.
Good luck. Casting your own does provide a nice sense of accomplishment, while saving money. (After you've cast enough to pay off the expense of your equipment and supplies, of course.)
Richard
Wheel weights used to be just about perfect for casting bullets -- that is, they had the right mixture of lead, tin and antimony. They don't now. The "problem" with using modern straight wheel weights is that they have minimal antimony content, so the alloy isn't as hard as it used to be, and there isn't any tin in it, so it does not fill out the mold as well. This causes undersized bullets. That is, if you want to use a .452 cast bullet in .45 ACP (most do), and you buy a mold that is said to cast a .452 bullet, it actually will cast somewhere in the .450-.451 range, which is too small.
Lyman molds, for instance, are "calibrated" to throw the correct size when using the Lyman #2 alloy (5 percent tin, 5 percent antimony and 90 percent lead). Using straight wheel weights without adding tin causes bullets to be undersized. I learned this after casting 1000 .38 bullets with a new mold. I wanted .358 and they were coming out at .355-.356, so they'd rattle down the bore.
I'm having another custom mold made for .45, and the manufacturer also cuts their molds to cast the correct size using the Lyman #2 alloy.
You do not need 5 percent tin to fill out the mold; 2 percent should do it. Add linotype until the bullets come out the correct diameter. I can't recall the specifics, but the 5 percent tin/5 percent antimony mix in the Lyman alloy causes a particular level of hardness and toughness.
By the way, you have to be careful when smelting wheel weights. Many now are iron or zinc. Iron weights won't cause problems because they'll just float to the top and can be removed. The zinc will melt into the alloy and "poison" it so that it does not fill out the molds correctly. In a bucket of 150 pounds of wheel weights, I'm running close to 30 percent loss after sorting out the iron and zinc weights.
Good luck. Casting your own does provide a nice sense of accomplishment, while saving money. (After you've cast enough to pay off the expense of your equipment and supplies, of course.)
Richard
Thanks for the advice on the Cast Boolits website, it's been great. I finally got everything set and functioning 100%. Took a little work to get the Magma Star lube/sizer adjusted right but now I'm GTG. I ended up getting a heated base and am now eyeballing the bullet feeder and air pressure hook-up for consistent pressure. Got a couple thousand 9mm bullets finished tonight.
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about wheel weights: please, take note that among all the poisonous fumes derivating from casting bullets, the worst are coming from melting discarded w.w.,because they are impregnated from all the dirt comin' from their former use _ (the next more obnoxious thing is the lead coming from discarded batteries, by the way)_ keep you safe at your best, and enjoy!
For smelting:
Gotta love the look on the neighbors faces when I get the hazmat gear on.
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Fumes from melting lead is not harmful if you keep the temps below 1000 degrees.
I get the best results from casting between 750 & 850 degrees.
When using wheel weights or range lead for bullets I have a large cast iron pot, I heat it outside. Trash, WW clips, and bullet jackets float to the top and can be dipped off.
Then I make ingots to use in my lead pot.
I cast tons of bullets for both rifle and pistols. Also make my own buck shot and shotgun slugs.
I've learned over the last 40 years or so that I don't need hard cast bullets. Lately all I used is Lee tumble lube and it works great. Cuts down on leading and also cuts down on lube build up in the seating die while reloading.
Some bullets work better un-sized, some require sizing. Gonna have to figure that one out yourself, what works for me may not work for you. I do use gas checks on most rifle bullets, but not all, I don't use GC's for my M1 Carbine or my 30-40 Krag.
BP Cartridge bullets need soft lead, I found that out the hard way trying to shoot a Creedmore match with my 45-70. Bullets were tumbling until I went to soft lead and slowed down the bullets.
Again I found I don't need hard lead. Found on bowling pins hard cast bullets seem to zip through the pins where softer bullets take them off the table.
When I was in LE I used a mixture of Wheel Weights and Range Lead for my LSWC's I carried in my Model 28 357. It worked great on putting moose down.
Again give the Lee tumble lube a try, you'll be surprised on the lack of barrel leading. Just follow the directions, put the bullets in a plastic container, pour in a bit of lube and shake until all the bullets are coated.
If you have to size the bullets they need lubed first but sizing removes the Lee lube on the riding surfaces. If that happens simple re-lube them as mentioned above.
Soft lead bullets do run a bit heavier then hardened lead, for example my go to 38/357 bullet, Lyman's 358477, is a 150 gr LSWC but runs about 153 gr. I really like that bullet, its super accurate in all my 38s and 357s, its the one I mentioned above. Like I said I've killed several moose and a buffalo with that bullet out of my 4 inch Model 28. For pins, I use a 6 in Model 27, the LSWCs (range lead) works great in it too, but the M-27 gives me a bit longer sight radius. It'll send the bowling pins into the next county with 14.5 gr of 2400.
I get the best results from casting between 750 & 850 degrees.
When using wheel weights or range lead for bullets I have a large cast iron pot, I heat it outside. Trash, WW clips, and bullet jackets float to the top and can be dipped off.
Then I make ingots to use in my lead pot.
I cast tons of bullets for both rifle and pistols. Also make my own buck shot and shotgun slugs.
I've learned over the last 40 years or so that I don't need hard cast bullets. Lately all I used is Lee tumble lube and it works great. Cuts down on leading and also cuts down on lube build up in the seating die while reloading.
Some bullets work better un-sized, some require sizing. Gonna have to figure that one out yourself, what works for me may not work for you. I do use gas checks on most rifle bullets, but not all, I don't use GC's for my M1 Carbine or my 30-40 Krag.
BP Cartridge bullets need soft lead, I found that out the hard way trying to shoot a Creedmore match with my 45-70. Bullets were tumbling until I went to soft lead and slowed down the bullets.
Again I found I don't need hard lead. Found on bowling pins hard cast bullets seem to zip through the pins where softer bullets take them off the table.
When I was in LE I used a mixture of Wheel Weights and Range Lead for my LSWC's I carried in my Model 28 357. It worked great on putting moose down.
Again give the Lee tumble lube a try, you'll be surprised on the lack of barrel leading. Just follow the directions, put the bullets in a plastic container, pour in a bit of lube and shake until all the bullets are coated.
If you have to size the bullets they need lubed first but sizing removes the Lee lube on the riding surfaces. If that happens simple re-lube them as mentioned above.
Soft lead bullets do run a bit heavier then hardened lead, for example my go to 38/357 bullet, Lyman's 358477, is a 150 gr LSWC but runs about 153 gr. I really like that bullet, its super accurate in all my 38s and 357s, its the one I mentioned above. Like I said I've killed several moose and a buffalo with that bullet out of my 4 inch Model 28. For pins, I use a 6 in Model 27, the LSWCs (range lead) works great in it too, but the M-27 gives me a bit longer sight radius. It'll send the bowling pins into the next county with 14.5 gr of 2400.
I've been casting for many years,since I was a teen. NO lead poisoning yet. Cast 160 pounds of pistol slugs this past winter. Do 100-200 pounds each year.
A LOT of things have changed since I started forty years plus, back.
Lyman's mold quality is DOWN from years back. Many of the great mold makers now gone. BUT...NOW thanks to CAD/CAM we live in the Golden Age of quality, Custom Bullet molds.
NOE Bullet Moulds A link to NOE one of my favorite custom mold builders. Just got an old H&G #34 design the other day. Five cavity, aluminum, well under a hundred bucks.
Accurate molds is another one to check out. and on the CB forums they do a lot of "Group Buys" as well. Nice way to get a popular or custom design. They get many built by a fellow in SLOVENIA, beautiful brass molds. I've got 6 or 7 from Mr. Previc.Works of art...Ya hate to use them.
The best value in bullet lube today........... http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/ FAR cheaper than the stuff Lyman or Redding sells.
You are going to need the Cast Boolits forums too...Especially with the STAR sizer. A learning curve with; temperature, pressure and top punch adjustment. BUT once you have it figured out probably THE BEST sizer out there.
Sizing dies from STAR are expensive...on Cast Boolits there's a vendor who machiens hiis own and they are every bit as good as STAR's and he will do Custom dies as well. He goes by "Lathesmith" on the forum.
I smelt my WW's and scrap lead down with a gas fired plumbers pot affair...But finally went with an electric 30# pot for my casting. Built in the USA by WAAGE. On the net. Not cheap, but high quality. The temperature control is very accurate and makes liife a lot easier than a gas stove or gas fired pot. A good thermometer , or a way to accurately regulate alloy temp is a MUST have.
Ladles for pot casting or smelting.... check out Rowell Bottom Pour ladles.
Cast Boolits site will be the best way to get information.
FN in MT
A LOT of things have changed since I started forty years plus, back.
Lyman's mold quality is DOWN from years back. Many of the great mold makers now gone. BUT...NOW thanks to CAD/CAM we live in the Golden Age of quality, Custom Bullet molds.
NOE Bullet Moulds A link to NOE one of my favorite custom mold builders. Just got an old H&G #34 design the other day. Five cavity, aluminum, well under a hundred bucks.
Accurate molds is another one to check out. and on the CB forums they do a lot of "Group Buys" as well. Nice way to get a popular or custom design. They get many built by a fellow in SLOVENIA, beautiful brass molds. I've got 6 or 7 from Mr. Previc.Works of art...Ya hate to use them.
The best value in bullet lube today........... http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/ FAR cheaper than the stuff Lyman or Redding sells.
You are going to need the Cast Boolits forums too...Especially with the STAR sizer. A learning curve with; temperature, pressure and top punch adjustment. BUT once you have it figured out probably THE BEST sizer out there.
Sizing dies from STAR are expensive...on Cast Boolits there's a vendor who machiens hiis own and they are every bit as good as STAR's and he will do Custom dies as well. He goes by "Lathesmith" on the forum.
I smelt my WW's and scrap lead down with a gas fired plumbers pot affair...But finally went with an electric 30# pot for my casting. Built in the USA by WAAGE. On the net. Not cheap, but high quality. The temperature control is very accurate and makes liife a lot easier than a gas stove or gas fired pot. A good thermometer , or a way to accurately regulate alloy temp is a MUST have.
Ladles for pot casting or smelting.... check out Rowell Bottom Pour ladles.
Cast Boolits site will be the best way to get information.
FN in MT
Hey, that's my Waage!
I make big heavy 45-70 boolits. I've got a BACO 535 GG PJ Money bullet mold and an Accurate 405 PP mold.
I make big heavy 45-70 boolits. I've got a BACO 535 GG PJ Money bullet mold and an Accurate 405 PP mold.
The 135gr 9mm bullets in photo above where cast using a NOE mold. I've been very happy with it so far.
I actually had one of that guy's Star dies in my hand the other day. I will probably look him up next time i need one.
I've learned a lot from the Cast Boolits site. Great place.
Got a couple thousand 9mm bullets finished tonight.
Woah, there! Might want to slow down some. I made the mistake of casting a bunch from the get-go, and after shooting some found I had to adjust the alloy. Had to remelt the entire batch and learn to cast a few and try them first before getting carried away with mega-production.
Your mould will tell you what temperature it likes. Mine like it HOT.
You have a lot of leeway, hardness wise, in a pistol. Revolvers are much more finicky regarding hardness, diameter, velocities and powder burn rates in relation to bore and throat diameters to prevent leading.
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I've started casting recently too. The noe 230 grain small cavity 45 cal hollow point seems to work well so far in my 45 acp/LC. With no sizing. I've only pan lubed so far (haven't had time to do thousands!) and works okay but is slow. I kind of worry about gas checks coming off in a suppressor so I think I'll stick with fairly slow rifle rounds or not shoot them suppressed. I've got the noe 247 grain blackout mould to play around with next!
Scored a couple thousand pounds of lead the other day for 10 cents a pound, woot!. I also got some Lee molds back from a machinist friend of mine today. I had him drill and tap a hole leading to the pivot screw for a set screw. I've found that the sprue plate on my Lee molds likes to be fairly loose. Now I just need to throw some JB Weld on these handles so they stop coming off and I'm in business.
The only other issue I'm having is getting the punch setting right on my Star lube/sizer. I have the air compressor adapter so I have consistent pressure and I think I have my temp dialed in. Those two combine with the punch setting is kind of a PITA to get set right.
What kind of lube/sizers are you all running?
Also, I'd like to get a couple cast iron 6-8 cavity moulds but Saeco stopped making them. Anyone know of another company that makes em'?
The only other issue I'm having is getting the punch setting right on my Star lube/sizer. I have the air compressor adapter so I have consistent pressure and I think I have my temp dialed in. Those two combine with the punch setting is kind of a PITA to get set right.
What kind of lube/sizers are you all running?
Also, I'd like to get a couple cast iron 6-8 cavity moulds but Saeco stopped making them. Anyone know of another company that makes em'?
It is kind of a pain to adjust a Star sizer, even if you record measurements, but the good thing is that time is gained back by how fast you can size. If I'm just sizing a few- like less than 50- I'll just use my Saeco.
I have an old Lyman 45, the Saeco, and the Star, bought in that order. Life got a little easier each time.
I still do most rifle on the Saeco.
For big moulds, I either hunt the for sale section on Cast Boolits, watch eBay, or order from the semi-custom guys on Cast Boolits. Big moulds are a blessing and a curse. The biggest I have is an eight cavity H&G for the #34 (.45 230 RN). It is huge, and weighs a ton. I arrange everything just right so I can slide it around to use rather than having to hold it up, lift, turn, etc. it would wear me out quick otherwise. I only use it about once a year, get everything ready, and cast a bunch.
A four cavity seems a nice happy medium for me. There are still plenty if those around in Lyman, Saeco, and the customs.
I have an old Lyman 45, the Saeco, and the Star, bought in that order. Life got a little easier each time.
I still do most rifle on the Saeco.
For big moulds, I either hunt the for sale section on Cast Boolits, watch eBay, or order from the semi-custom guys on Cast Boolits. Big moulds are a blessing and a curse. The biggest I have is an eight cavity H&G for the #34 (.45 230 RN). It is huge, and weighs a ton. I arrange everything just right so I can slide it around to use rather than having to hold it up, lift, turn, etc. it would wear me out quick otherwise. I only use it about once a year, get everything ready, and cast a bunch.
A four cavity seems a nice happy medium for me. There are still plenty if those around in Lyman, Saeco, and the customs.
Another caster here! Wheelweights make fine pistol bullets. You can play with it some by cutting it with a little pure lead, or go the other way and add some bar solder. Or even type metal. But thats not necessary. I've been happy with straight wheelweights, myself. Watch out for the zinc ones, they are getting more common. They will mess up the casting quality of your lead!
My smelting pot is a valve cover from a high pressure railroad tank car. Kinda like a propane tank valve cover on steroids! I've seen some nice ones made from old 20# propane bottles, cut in half. A cheap cast iron dutch oven is another favorite.
My burner is a homemade device, but a turkey fryer would work good. Make sure that it is strong enough to hold the weight that you will put on it. Propane seems to be the favorite fuel, but natural gas would be cheaper, if you have it available.
The next time that I smelt, I will post some pics. It will probably be in the fall. After I work in the heat all day, I just can't get excited about smelting lead! Plus, I have a large stock ready and waiting.
I really want a Star lub/sizer! And a 40# Magma pot! Just a little jealous, maybe! Lightman
My smelting pot is a valve cover from a high pressure railroad tank car. Kinda like a propane tank valve cover on steroids! I've seen some nice ones made from old 20# propane bottles, cut in half. A cheap cast iron dutch oven is another favorite.
My burner is a homemade device, but a turkey fryer would work good. Make sure that it is strong enough to hold the weight that you will put on it. Propane seems to be the favorite fuel, but natural gas would be cheaper, if you have it available.
The next time that I smelt, I will post some pics. It will probably be in the fall. After I work in the heat all day, I just can't get excited about smelting lead! Plus, I have a large stock ready and waiting.
I really want a Star lub/sizer! And a 40# Magma pot! Just a little jealous, maybe! Lightman
Thanks for the intel. I forgot I had asked those questions in the OP. Since I started this thread I have built things up a bit. I ended up going with a turkey frier and a cast iron dutch oven for smelting. Done a couple thousand pounds in it so far and it has worked well.
As far as having hard enough lead for 9mm and 45acp, I've decided to just quench from now on. I've done it a bit in the past and they're definitely a considerable amount harder after being quenched. I can really tell a difference when running them through the sizer.
While I have molds for every caliber I own I'm only casting for the .50 caliber stuff.
Those bullets can get expensive.
Those bullets can get expensive.
