I've taken their standard 4-day rifle class there, but the school is close and I travel up to LV often for work, so it's also convenient. Has anyone taken the Precision Rifle class at Front Sight? If so, any reviews? Good? Bad?
Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
- Thread starter jtb33
- Start date
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
I took some at Gunsite ... And I would highly recommend the ones there ... looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way. I asked if I could pay for one day private to show that I know a majority and dependant on what they did not feel I knew I would take more privates or take the class.
They declined .. so I dropped it.
I took some at Gunsite ... And I would highly recommend the ones there ... looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way. I asked if I could pay for one day private to show that I know a majority and dependant on what they did not feel I knew I would take more privates or take the class.
They declined .. so I dropped it.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark Wahlberg </div></div>
Yeah, I know. FrontSight did his "training" for the movie "Shooter".
Since I have taken the prerequisite class and passed it as a "distinguished graduate", I am eligible for the precision rifle class. I am asking about Front Sight's because I travel up that way often and is likely that I can get in a class there for a fraction of their retail cost.
Yes, Gunsite is close to me - and that's an option as well, but would still like to find some reviews about the precision rifle at Front Sight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark Wahlberg </div></div>
Yeah, I know. FrontSight did his "training" for the movie "Shooter".
Since I have taken the prerequisite class and passed it as a "distinguished graduate", I am eligible for the precision rifle class. I am asking about Front Sight's because I travel up that way often and is likely that I can get in a class there for a fraction of their retail cost.
Yes, Gunsite is close to me - and that's an option as well, but would still like to find some reviews about the precision rifle at Front Sight.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
I took the class in 2007 - the only thing I knew about PR at the time was what I read and I had a rifle set up adequetly - it was a good introductory course that covered the basics. Had fun at "sniper's point" engaging steel out to 1K.
I took the class in 2007 - the only thing I knew about PR at the time was what I read and I had a rifle set up adequetly - it was a good introductory course that covered the basics. Had fun at "sniper's point" engaging steel out to 1K.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark Wahlberg </div></div>
Yeah, I know. FrontSight did his "training" for the movie "Shooter".
Since I have taken the prerequisite class and passed it as a "distinguished graduate", I am eligible for the precision rifle class. I am asking about Front Sight's because I travel up that way often and is likely that I can get in a class there for a fraction of their retail cost.
He did real training right? I think they said he was a pretty good shot.
Yes, Gunsite is close to me - and that's an option as well, but would still like to find some reviews about the precision rifle at Front Sight.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselgeek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark Wahlberg </div></div>
Yeah, I know. FrontSight did his "training" for the movie "Shooter".
Since I have taken the prerequisite class and passed it as a "distinguished graduate", I am eligible for the precision rifle class. I am asking about Front Sight's because I travel up that way often and is likely that I can get in a class there for a fraction of their retail cost.
He did real training right? I think they said he was a pretty good shot.
Yes, Gunsite is close to me - and that's an option as well, but would still like to find some reviews about the precision rifle at Front Sight.</div></div>
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
I would also be interested in hearing reviws of this class by anyone taking them, i have a membership there and will probably be taking their class in the future
I would also be interested in hearing reviws of this class by anyone taking them, i have a membership there and will probably be taking their class in the future
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
That's ghey
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
That's ghey
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
^Haven't been there? Is that because of the gimmickry or the scientology?
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/
^Haven't been there? Is that because of the gimmickry or the scientology?
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/ </div></div>
I have not. Wasn't even aware of them, but their facilities apparently only offer shooting up to 300 yards, per the info on their facilities on the web site.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/ </div></div>
I have not. Wasn't even aware of them, but their facilities apparently only offer shooting up to 300 yards, per the info on their facilities on the web site.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^Haven't been there? Is that because of the gimmickry or the scientology?
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/ </div></div>
You know I have heard of them and they are very close ... but I heard that maybe .. and I say maybe Rifles Only may come to Arizona ... so I am holdiing out for that. If it falls through I will probably go to GPS or Gunsite again.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^Haven't been there? Is that because of the gimmickry or the scientology?
Have you looked into GPS Defense sniper school? They are located just outside of Scottsdale. They have a lot of credibility to their name.
http://www.sniperschool.com/ </div></div>
You know I have heard of them and they are very close ... but I heard that maybe .. and I say maybe Rifles Only may come to Arizona ... so I am holdiing out for that. If it falls through I will probably go to GPS or Gunsite again.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
In your location Ones I know are good:
Gunsite Arizonia
McMillans Sniper School Arizonia
if traveling short range
Rifles only texas
Badlands OK
Traveling long range
Storm Mountain West Virghinia
Those places I know you will get good instruction
In your location Ones I know are good:
Gunsite Arizonia
McMillans Sniper School Arizonia
if traveling short range
Rifles only texas
Badlands OK
Traveling long range
Storm Mountain West Virghinia
Those places I know you will get good instruction
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
Plus One on Storm Mountain, I took Long Range 1 last year and taking long range 2 in a couple weeks.
Plus One on Storm Mountain, I took Long Range 1 last year and taking long range 2 in a couple weeks.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You know I have heard of them and they are very close ... but I heard that maybe .. and I say maybe Rifles Only may come to Arizona ... so I am holdiing out for that. If it falls through I will probably go to GPS or Gunsite again.
</div></div>
That would be cool. They already have Texas and Utah though, so who knows if they want to expand further or not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have not. Wasn't even aware of them, but their facilities apparently only offer shooting up to 300 yards, per the info on their facilities on the web site.
</div></div>
They have a lot more than that. Those are just the KD ranges. They have basically UKD range area where they regularly engage targets out past 1200yds. They do a lot of SPR training out past 900yds as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In your location Ones I know are good:
Gunsite Arizonia
McMillan Sniper School Arizona
if traveling short range
Rifles only texas
Badlands OK
Traveling long range
Storm Mountain West Virginia
Those places I know you will get good instruction</div></div>
GPS Defense used to be McMillan Sniper School, and Bill Graves was one of the head instructors. They have since parted ways.
McMillan is now McMillan Operator Development, but they have not held a training class since 2009, IIRC. I exchanged emails with them last year, and they said they MAY consider restarting training courses, but all of their courses are LE/GOV/MIL only anyways, so FYI.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You know I have heard of them and they are very close ... but I heard that maybe .. and I say maybe Rifles Only may come to Arizona ... so I am holdiing out for that. If it falls through I will probably go to GPS or Gunsite again.
</div></div>
That would be cool. They already have Texas and Utah though, so who knows if they want to expand further or not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have not. Wasn't even aware of them, but their facilities apparently only offer shooting up to 300 yards, per the info on their facilities on the web site.
They have a lot more than that. Those are just the KD ranges. They have basically UKD range area where they regularly engage targets out past 1200yds. They do a lot of SPR training out past 900yds as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In your location Ones I know are good:
Gunsite Arizonia
McMillan Sniper School Arizona
if traveling short range
Rifles only texas
Badlands OK
Traveling long range
Storm Mountain West Virginia
Those places I know you will get good instruction</div></div>
GPS Defense used to be McMillan Sniper School, and Bill Graves was one of the head instructors. They have since parted ways.
McMillan is now McMillan Operator Development, but they have not held a training class since 2009, IIRC. I exchanged emails with them last year, and they said they MAY consider restarting training courses, but all of their courses are LE/GOV/MIL only anyways, so FYI.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
Would be interesting to hear how they compare head to head.
Would be interesting to hear how they compare head to head.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
GPS is worth checking out...I had a good time out there and learned a lot. Instructors were great, the facilites and instruction will have you shooting 1000+ yards
GPS is worth checking out...I had a good time out there and learned a lot. Instructors were great, the facilites and instruction will have you shooting 1000+ yards
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
</div></div>
Interesting. Can you elaborate as to why?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
</div></div>
Interesting. Can you elaborate as to why?
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
</div></div>
Interesting. Can you elaborate as to why? </div></div>
Sure,
The handgun and to a lesser extent the carbine courses are very scripted, meaning you will get the same good instruction regardless of which instructor teaches it or when. The curriculum is almost identical to a Pat Rogers course ("there is no voodoo", most mainstream schools teach the same stuff).
With the advanced courses, it is much more free form, with the rangemaster having more leeway on what is taught and how. With handgun and carbine this is a good thing, as the instructors are quite qualified to teach kick @$$ high end stuff.
With the PR 1 and 2 however, it is very hit and miss whether you will get an instructor who is qualified to teach above the basics. If you get a good one, it rocks, but there are a few who teach that course that have no business teaching PR, and at the very least, "embellish" their related experience/credentials.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to instruct for Front Sight. Handgun courses are good, and rifle courses are fine, but I would not take a precision rifle course from them.
</div></div>
Interesting. Can you elaborate as to why? </div></div>
Sure,
The handgun and to a lesser extent the carbine courses are very scripted, meaning you will get the same good instruction regardless of which instructor teaches it or when. The curriculum is almost identical to a Pat Rogers course ("there is no voodoo", most mainstream schools teach the same stuff).
With the advanced courses, it is much more free form, with the rangemaster having more leeway on what is taught and how. With handgun and carbine this is a good thing, as the instructors are quite qualified to teach kick @$$ high end stuff.
With the PR 1 and 2 however, it is very hit and miss whether you will get an instructor who is qualified to teach above the basics. If you get a good one, it rocks, but there are a few who teach that course that have no business teaching PR, and at the very least, "embellish" their related experience/credentials.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
As a current "Part Time" instructor at Front Sight and a few other places I agree with the comments regarding the luck of the draw when it comes to who is instructing your class. I will tell you that there are MANY <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> good instructors out there and some people who are lucky to have a gray shirt which is the case with any organization regardless of trade. I would recommend the PR 1 course to a novice shooter or an average "hunter / Plinker" who does not comprehend the basics of Mil Dot ranging, wind reads, etc.. you will learn these fundamentals regardless of who your instructor is. and you will learn them completely. PR 2 is a much better class for people who have understanding a firm grasp of the basics. but you will need to have completed PR1 as a pre qual. three weeks ago Front Sight had nearly 1000 students onsite that week. that is amazing. they are obviously doing something right regardless of all the nonsense you can find from haters on the internet. Good luck.
Train Hard, Train Safe, Train to WIN.
As a current "Part Time" instructor at Front Sight and a few other places I agree with the comments regarding the luck of the draw when it comes to who is instructing your class. I will tell you that there are MANY <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> good instructors out there and some people who are lucky to have a gray shirt which is the case with any organization regardless of trade. I would recommend the PR 1 course to a novice shooter or an average "hunter / Plinker" who does not comprehend the basics of Mil Dot ranging, wind reads, etc.. you will learn these fundamentals regardless of who your instructor is. and you will learn them completely. PR 2 is a much better class for people who have understanding a firm grasp of the basics. but you will need to have completed PR1 as a pre qual. three weeks ago Front Sight had nearly 1000 students onsite that week. that is amazing. they are obviously doing something right regardless of all the nonsense you can find from haters on the internet. Good luck.
Train Hard, Train Safe, Train to WIN.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
Not true.
Frontsight has no way to know how qualified a person is just because the person thinks they are qualified. With the amount of people they train there they cant possible cater to each individual that thinks they should be able to skip ahead. If so everyone would claim thay are qualified to skip ahead. They are liable for what hapens at their facility and just cant afford to take a chance. Too many sue happy yahoos in the world today. I'm pretty sure if the legal resposibility was on your shoulders you would do the same. And unfortunatley its just not practicle to give each person a private class to evaluate their skill level.
"three weeks ago Front Sight had nearly 1000 students onsite that week." That doesnt leave much room for taking up one of their ranges and range masters for one person. Possibly if you could talk them into accepting a fee equal to 20+ students to give you your own private lessen....(thats what, $40,000 + at the normal 4 day rate?)
As far as being "required to take SEVERAL remedial classes 1st" thats just simply not true.
4 Day Precision Rifle 1
A four day course for those students who want to learn the skills required to make first round hits out to 1000 meters!
Prerequisite Class(s): Distinguished Graduate in the 4-Day Practical Rifle OR 2-Day Rifle Skill Builder course.
4 Day Practical Rifle
Held Friday through Monday, this is a comprehensive course in the practical use of the rifle that will leave law enforcement officers, military personnel and private citizens with the comforting ability to hit what they can see!
Prerequisite Class(s): None
So as you can see here you only need ONE (4-Day Practical Rifle)prior class to take PR1 and PR2 only requires completion of PR1.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
Not true.
Frontsight has no way to know how qualified a person is just because the person thinks they are qualified. With the amount of people they train there they cant possible cater to each individual that thinks they should be able to skip ahead. If so everyone would claim thay are qualified to skip ahead. They are liable for what hapens at their facility and just cant afford to take a chance. Too many sue happy yahoos in the world today. I'm pretty sure if the legal resposibility was on your shoulders you would do the same. And unfortunatley its just not practicle to give each person a private class to evaluate their skill level.
"three weeks ago Front Sight had nearly 1000 students onsite that week." That doesnt leave much room for taking up one of their ranges and range masters for one person. Possibly if you could talk them into accepting a fee equal to 20+ students to give you your own private lessen....(thats what, $40,000 + at the normal 4 day rate?)
As far as being "required to take SEVERAL remedial classes 1st" thats just simply not true.
4 Day Precision Rifle 1
A four day course for those students who want to learn the skills required to make first round hits out to 1000 meters!
Prerequisite Class(s): Distinguished Graduate in the 4-Day Practical Rifle OR 2-Day Rifle Skill Builder course.
4 Day Practical Rifle
Held Friday through Monday, this is a comprehensive course in the practical use of the rifle that will leave law enforcement officers, military personnel and private citizens with the comforting ability to hit what they can see!
Prerequisite Class(s): None
So as you can see here you only need ONE (4-Day Practical Rifle)prior class to take PR1 and PR2 only requires completion of PR1.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocca</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
Not true.
</div></div>
I am getting to the point where I need a "Not True" button on my keyboard. so much bullshit on the interwebs anymore. If you dont know what your talking about... STOP TALKING. impressionable people are listing and they are then spreading the bullshit you made up to there dumb ass friends. before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
This was not directed at any person in particular, just internet trolls in general. No disrespect to Kevlars, but there is absolutely no validity to what your saying.
Same goes for the "Scientology" BS out at front sight. someone makes up a funny story to cover their own inadequencies and now random people that are searching for information and thinking that crap is factual information.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocca</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> looked at Frontsight but they wanted me to take several remedial classes because I needed to learn their way.</div></div>
Not true.
</div></div>
I am getting to the point where I need a "Not True" button on my keyboard. so much bullshit on the interwebs anymore. If you dont know what your talking about... STOP TALKING. impressionable people are listing and they are then spreading the bullshit you made up to there dumb ass friends. before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
This was not directed at any person in particular, just internet trolls in general. No disrespect to Kevlars, but there is absolutely no validity to what your saying.
Same goes for the "Scientology" BS out at front sight. someone makes up a funny story to cover their own inadequencies and now random people that are searching for information and thinking that crap is factual information.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class and one other class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill so I would not have to pay a couple of extra thousand $ for stuff I already knew. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and some other class AND had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it.
Ok i re-read the thread. I think there is some confusion on the class that I wanted to take. Regardless what I stated is correct.
Next stop GPS, then Rifles Only.
Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class and one other class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill so I would not have to pay a couple of extra thousand $ for stuff I already knew. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and some other class AND had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it.
Ok i re-read the thread. I think there is some confusion on the class that I wanted to take. Regardless what I stated is correct.
Next stop GPS, then Rifles Only.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it. </div></div>
While the general idea of what you're saying may be true, you're certainly exaggerating it. You referred to the prerequisite classes as "remedial". They most certainly are not - I've taken one (4 Day Practical Rifle) and I consider myself a decent marksman and I *barely* made the "distinguished graduate" score.
Having gone to classes there (I've also taken the 4 Day defensive handgun, which took me two tried to reach "distinguished graduate" level on it), I can see why they don't make exceptions to let people take the advanced classes. In my 4-Day rifle class, there were several tacticool braggarts in our class before it started and they turned out to need the most help and most didn't even make the "graduate" score. Before the class, they were VERY sure of their skills and made sure that everyone there knew how good they were before any shots were fired. One was apparently so humbled (read: embarrassed) that he didn't bother showing up for the final 2 days.
If Front Sight allowed everyone to take a skills demonstration for the prereqs, that's all they'd be doing - I can't imagine how much time that would take, and how many more instructions would be siphoned off. Requiring someone to have reached a certain level of proficiency in their class under their instruction makes sure that everyone is on the same level in the advanced classes, so I can see why they do that given the amount of students they train.
I would imagine that a smaller school like Gunsite would allow you to demo your skills or just let you sign up for the class you think suits you best.
If Front Sight did that and it turned out that you needed more help that you made it sound like, it would hinder everyone else in the class because of how fast-paced the classes are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it. </div></div>
While the general idea of what you're saying may be true, you're certainly exaggerating it. You referred to the prerequisite classes as "remedial". They most certainly are not - I've taken one (4 Day Practical Rifle) and I consider myself a decent marksman and I *barely* made the "distinguished graduate" score.
Having gone to classes there (I've also taken the 4 Day defensive handgun, which took me two tried to reach "distinguished graduate" level on it), I can see why they don't make exceptions to let people take the advanced classes. In my 4-Day rifle class, there were several tacticool braggarts in our class before it started and they turned out to need the most help and most didn't even make the "graduate" score. Before the class, they were VERY sure of their skills and made sure that everyone there knew how good they were before any shots were fired. One was apparently so humbled (read: embarrassed) that he didn't bother showing up for the final 2 days.
If Front Sight allowed everyone to take a skills demonstration for the prereqs, that's all they'd be doing - I can't imagine how much time that would take, and how many more instructions would be siphoned off. Requiring someone to have reached a certain level of proficiency in their class under their instruction makes sure that everyone is on the same level in the advanced classes, so I can see why they do that given the amount of students they train.
I would imagine that a smaller school like Gunsite would allow you to demo your skills or just let you sign up for the class you think suits you best.
If Front Sight did that and it turned out that you needed more help that you made it sound like, it would hinder everyone else in the class because of how fast-paced the classes are.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
Storm Mountain with Rod Ryan is "kick ass" good
when I was there 4-5 years ago. Phenomenal location/range.
Maybe underneath the radar, I don't know, but from my personal x2 experience, Vern Harrison at www.centralvirginiatactical.com were remarkable training experiences. One-on-One with Vern, who has been there and done that in the "Bad Place" so many, many years ago, was/is just exceptional as an instructor.
Can't speak about Front Sight cause it's just way too far and with these guys as close to PA as they are, no need to spend the bucks just for travel.
tony
Storm Mountain with Rod Ryan is "kick ass" good
Maybe underneath the radar, I don't know, but from my personal x2 experience, Vern Harrison at www.centralvirginiatactical.com were remarkable training experiences. One-on-One with Vern, who has been there and done that in the "Bad Place" so many, many years ago, was/is just exceptional as an instructor.
Can't speak about Front Sight cause it's just way too far and with these guys as close to PA as they are, no need to spend the bucks just for travel.
tony
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it. </div></div>
While the general idea of what you're saying may be true, you're certainly exaggerating it. You referred to the prerequisite classes as "remedial". They most certainly are not - I've taken one (4 Day Practical Rifle) and I consider myself a decent marksman and I *barely* made the "distinguished graduate" score.
Having gone to classes there (I've also taken the 4 Day defensive handgun, which took me two tried to reach "distinguished graduate" level on it), I can see why they don't make exceptions to let people take the advanced classes. In my 4-Day rifle class, there were several tacticool braggarts in our class before it started and they turned out to need the most help and most didn't even make the "graduate" score. Before the class, they were VERY sure of their skills and made sure that everyone there knew how good they were before any shots were fired. One was apparently so humbled (read: embarrassed) that he didn't bother showing up for the final 2 days.
If Front Sight allowed everyone to take a skills demonstration for the prereqs, that's all they'd be doing - I can't imagine how much time that would take, and how many more instructions would be siphoned off. Requiring someone to have reached a certain level of proficiency in their class under their instruction makes sure that everyone is on the same level in the advanced classes, so I can see why they do that given the amount of students they train.
I would imagine that a smaller school like Gunsite would allow you to demo your skills or just let you sign up for the class you think suits you best.
If Front Sight did that and it turned out that you needed more help that you made it sound like, it would hinder everyone else in the class because of how fast-paced the classes are.</div></div>
That is why I offered to take and pay for a private lesson which they said they offered, however regardless no matter how well I performed it would not allow me to qualify for a prerequisite class. Look no offense to Front Site or anyone that has taken any of their courses, I am sure they are a top notch school and I don't under stand why everyone is taking it personally. It is what it is and I am not exaggerating my Coms with the school. I have no skin in this, just reporting my experience.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jtb33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry guys yes it is. I emailed them and they said that I had to take the intro class to verify I knew the basics. I even offered to take a private lesson to demonstrate my skill. They declined and said I had to take the basic class and had to be a "distinuisged" graduate before I could take their long distance class. So no it's not BS as I have the emails to prove it. </div></div>
While the general idea of what you're saying may be true, you're certainly exaggerating it. You referred to the prerequisite classes as "remedial". They most certainly are not - I've taken one (4 Day Practical Rifle) and I consider myself a decent marksman and I *barely* made the "distinguished graduate" score.
Having gone to classes there (I've also taken the 4 Day defensive handgun, which took me two tried to reach "distinguished graduate" level on it), I can see why they don't make exceptions to let people take the advanced classes. In my 4-Day rifle class, there were several tacticool braggarts in our class before it started and they turned out to need the most help and most didn't even make the "graduate" score. Before the class, they were VERY sure of their skills and made sure that everyone there knew how good they were before any shots were fired. One was apparently so humbled (read: embarrassed) that he didn't bother showing up for the final 2 days.
If Front Sight allowed everyone to take a skills demonstration for the prereqs, that's all they'd be doing - I can't imagine how much time that would take, and how many more instructions would be siphoned off. Requiring someone to have reached a certain level of proficiency in their class under their instruction makes sure that everyone is on the same level in the advanced classes, so I can see why they do that given the amount of students they train.
I would imagine that a smaller school like Gunsite would allow you to demo your skills or just let you sign up for the class you think suits you best.
If Front Sight did that and it turned out that you needed more help that you made it sound like, it would hinder everyone else in the class because of how fast-paced the classes are.</div></div>
That is why I offered to take and pay for a private lesson which they said they offered, however regardless no matter how well I performed it would not allow me to qualify for a prerequisite class. Look no offense to Front Site or anyone that has taken any of their courses, I am sure they are a top notch school and I don't under stand why everyone is taking it personally. It is what it is and I am not exaggerating my Coms with the school. I have no skin in this, just reporting my experience.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
Sounds like those guys got a Testosterone problem
Shit, what? they got a proprietary protocol? I mean, the super stealth system that only they can teach? With so many other options available to you, why even bother to piss with 'em?
just askin'
tony
Sounds like those guys got a Testosterone problem
Shit, what? they got a proprietary protocol? I mean, the super stealth system that only they can teach? With so many other options available to you, why even bother to piss with 'em?
just askin'
tony
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
save some money and youtube ultimate sniper and watch the series. then go practice. find a 1000 range where your at and get with some guy's who aren't know it all's or arrogant and you'll learn plenty. learning and skill comes from doing not paying. there are still some good guy's out there who really want to give knowledge and not act like rifle god's and get paid. hell, the guy's on the range will actually let you call them. after all the money you spend at a course do you think the instructor's will keep working with you or give you refreshers without paying or attending another course. not taking away from the course just giving some info on what i have found to be true for some in this industry. remember, it is a business. take a course at RIFLES ONLY. those guys seem more than just business and I will always support them until proven different
save some money and youtube ultimate sniper and watch the series. then go practice. find a 1000 range where your at and get with some guy's who aren't know it all's or arrogant and you'll learn plenty. learning and skill comes from doing not paying. there are still some good guy's out there who really want to give knowledge and not act like rifle god's and get paid. hell, the guy's on the range will actually let you call them. after all the money you spend at a course do you think the instructor's will keep working with you or give you refreshers without paying or attending another course. not taking away from the course just giving some info on what i have found to be true for some in this industry. remember, it is a business. take a course at RIFLES ONLY. those guys seem more than just business and I will always support them until proven different
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like those guys got a Testosterone problem
Shit, what? they got a proprietary protocol? I mean, the super stealth system that only they can teach? With so many other options available to you, why even bother to piss with 'em?
just askin'
tony </div></div>
Well I can understand that they don't want un qualified people in class. It was just a bit weird that I could not test out. But hey everyone has their own policy. Like I said it may be a great school.
Maybe next time
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like those guys got a Testosterone problem
Shit, what? they got a proprietary protocol? I mean, the super stealth system that only they can teach? With so many other options available to you, why even bother to piss with 'em?
just askin'
tony </div></div>
Well I can understand that they don't want un qualified people in class. It was just a bit weird that I could not test out. But hey everyone has their own policy. Like I said it may be a great school.
Maybe next time
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
It WOULD be nice if somehow all the training institues in the US could somehow coordinate/ communicate with each other and verify someones qualifications.
I realise thats way too much trouble and expense to be ralistic but it WOULD be nice to take a course in say Ohio and have another training facility like say gunsite or frontsight say " ok, I see youve completed the rifle 03 course at rearsight in Ohio so that is the equivilant of our practicle rifle course. You can go on to the PR1 course if you like."
Unfortunatley, Not going to happen.
It WOULD be nice if somehow all the training institues in the US could somehow coordinate/ communicate with each other and verify someones qualifications.
I realise thats way too much trouble and expense to be ralistic but it WOULD be nice to take a course in say Ohio and have another training facility like say gunsite or frontsight say " ok, I see youve completed the rifle 03 course at rearsight in Ohio so that is the equivilant of our practicle rifle course. You can go on to the PR1 course if you like."
Unfortunatley, Not going to happen.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocca</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It WOULD be nice if somehow all the training institues in the US could somehow coordinate/ communicate with each other and verify someones qualifications.
I realise thats way too much trouble and expense to be ralistic but it WOULD be nice to take a course in say Ohio and have another training facility like say gunsite or frontsight say " ok, I see youve completed the rifle 03 course at rearsight in Ohio so that is the equivilant of our practicle rifle course. You can go on to the PR1 course if you like."
Unfortunatley, Not going to happen. </div></div>
Be careful what you ask for! Just what we need a new governmental agency tracking shooters and the schools they attended....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocca</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It WOULD be nice if somehow all the training institues in the US could somehow coordinate/ communicate with each other and verify someones qualifications.
I realise thats way too much trouble and expense to be ralistic but it WOULD be nice to take a course in say Ohio and have another training facility like say gunsite or frontsight say " ok, I see youve completed the rifle 03 course at rearsight in Ohio so that is the equivilant of our practicle rifle course. You can go on to the PR1 course if you like."
Unfortunatley, Not going to happen. </div></div>
Be careful what you ask for! Just what we need a new governmental agency tracking shooters and the schools they attended....
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
if another course were to tell me that my exp. level or the classes I have taken at RIFLES ONLY were sub par to one of thiers then I would be a little upset to say the least and would contact my previous school and let them know and another thing. I don't see the need to attend other training facilities if the one I currently go to covers all those basis. Like I said earlier, this is a business so if someone can up charge you into believing your skills aren't up to par then there is a problem. If they will not let you demonstrate your skills then that sounds like a push to money making as well. If that is how they run it then accept it or move on. Either way go shoot and have some fun. Sometimes covering basics is just what the dr. ordered.
if another course were to tell me that my exp. level or the classes I have taken at RIFLES ONLY were sub par to one of thiers then I would be a little upset to say the least and would contact my previous school and let them know and another thing. I don't see the need to attend other training facilities if the one I currently go to covers all those basis. Like I said earlier, this is a business so if someone can up charge you into believing your skills aren't up to par then there is a problem. If they will not let you demonstrate your skills then that sounds like a push to money making as well. If that is how they run it then accept it or move on. Either way go shoot and have some fun. Sometimes covering basics is just what the dr. ordered.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Storm Mountain with Rod Ryan is "kick ass" good
when I was there 4-5 years ago. Phenomenal location/range.
Maybe underneath the radar, I don't know, but from my personal x2 experience, Vern Harrison at www.centralvirginiatactical.com were remarkable training experiences. One-on-One with Vern, who has been there and done that in the "Bad Place" so many, many years ago, was/is just exceptional as an instructor.
Can't speak about Front Sight cause it's just way too far and with these guys as close to PA as they are, no need to spend the bucks just for travel.
tony</div></div>
+1 for Storm Mountain.. Rodney is a friend of mine and his school is TOP NOTCH for precision rifle. amazing facility too.
COPDOC maybe i will see you out there in October for the Wounded Warriors Comp.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: copdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Storm Mountain with Rod Ryan is "kick ass" good
Maybe underneath the radar, I don't know, but from my personal x2 experience, Vern Harrison at www.centralvirginiatactical.com were remarkable training experiences. One-on-One with Vern, who has been there and done that in the "Bad Place" so many, many years ago, was/is just exceptional as an instructor.
Can't speak about Front Sight cause it's just way too far and with these guys as close to PA as they are, no need to spend the bucks just for travel.
tony</div></div>
+1 for Storm Mountain.. Rodney is a friend of mine and his school is TOP NOTCH for precision rifle. amazing facility too.
COPDOC maybe i will see you out there in October for the Wounded Warriors Comp.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div>
So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div>
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote.
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
I will take your word for it. You did not mean our society is so fucked, or that it is related to the topic of this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote. </div></div>
I will take your word for it. You did not mean our society is so fucked, or that it is related to the topic of this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote. </div></div>
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
The quote you listed was in reference to people, not just people within this thread but in all forms of social interaction, providing inaccurate information on topics in which they have no experience or qualifications. And providing that false information as if it was legitimate. then the uninformed people who are seeking knowledge read this inaccurate information and based on nothing but what they have heard from someone else believe it to be FACT.
My comment on the society was based on the fact that todays generation has lost the ability to come a conclusion based on fact and research and simply rely on some other ill informed individual to tell them what to think. if you don't believe me just look on youtube. 90% of youtube videos concerning firearms are portrayed as being posted by a highly trained "operator" as they say. but in the first few seconds they have completely abandoned any and all respect for basic firearm safety. This leads to other people training like they see in the video and continually spreading horrible practices and further damaging the image of responsible gun ownership. it can be found in all walks of life. i simply used firearms as a case study.
Have a good afternoon. I will be removing myself from this thread after this post. as it no longer has anything to do with the OP's question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will take your word for it. You did not mean our society is so fucked, or that it is related to the topic of this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote. </div></div></div></div>
The quote you listed was in reference to people, not just people within this thread but in all forms of social interaction, providing inaccurate information on topics in which they have no experience or qualifications. And providing that false information as if it was legitimate. then the uninformed people who are seeking knowledge read this inaccurate information and based on nothing but what they have heard from someone else believe it to be FACT.
My comment on the society was based on the fact that todays generation has lost the ability to come a conclusion based on fact and research and simply rely on some other ill informed individual to tell them what to think. if you don't believe me just look on youtube. 90% of youtube videos concerning firearms are portrayed as being posted by a highly trained "operator" as they say. but in the first few seconds they have completely abandoned any and all respect for basic firearm safety. This leads to other people training like they see in the video and continually spreading horrible practices and further damaging the image of responsible gun ownership. it can be found in all walks of life. i simply used firearms as a case study.
Have a good afternoon. I will be removing myself from this thread after this post. as it no longer has anything to do with the OP's question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will take your word for it. You did not mean our society is so fucked, or that it is related to the topic of this thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the training protocols/prerequisites, if not properly expressed are going to lead to the demise of our society?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalTeacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> before long its perceived fact. We are so F'ed as a society.
</div></div></div></div>
The quote you posted is completely out of context and has nothing to do with training protocol or prereqs and the fact that you based you comment on the out of context quote supports my argument. please re-read the complete post from which you took that quote. </div></div></div></div>
Re: Anyone taken a Precision Rifle class @ FrontSight?
At GPS Sniper School, you will engage targets from 100-1200 yards.
At GPS Sniper School, you will engage targets from 100-1200 yards.
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