I'm doing some experiments and I'm seeing a lot of recipes for reduced loads, for example 14 grains of benchmark for a subsonic 30.06 from Hodgdons website. But then I keep reading people talking about there's just too much risk of 'flashovers' or detonation because of so little case fill. What is the risk percentage? Anyone shoot these loads regularly, for say their young kids?
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Anyone Use Reduced Loads Here?
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My subsonic 300-BLK recipe ... that works just great BTW ... uses 10.1 gn of IMR 4227 that fills the case to about half-full. No issues at all. Good luck finding a powder lame enough to fill a case for a subsonic load. I don't even know what a "flashover" is ...
I think that's a vastly overblown (bordering on invented) concern. Not saying it has NEVER happened, but there are all sorts of loads with tons of extra case capacity that don't cause problems. I shoot a .220 Swift load with a 35gr Varmint Grenade that's ridiculously low. As a percentage there are many pistol loads that have a ton of extra case capacity. Ever pull a bullet from a .22LR? They're practically empty.
However, I also think that the closer you get to a 100% case capacity the better it is for all sorts of reasons besides safety.
In my mind consistency is why using Trail Boss (Cheerios) is so good for making centerfire subs. It's pressure to volume ratio is among the lowest, and you can fill the case much more with lower pressures. I feel like it's the easy button, that will give you tight sub groups.
In a situation where I couldn't get any more powder I have a ton of shotgun powder that I can make work. It'll be very low case volume, and probably unacceptably inconsistent, but I can make almost anything go bang with it, and because it's so fast and the loads are so small it will go a long way. Definitely something I would only do as a last resort, but it's there.
However, I also think that the closer you get to a 100% case capacity the better it is for all sorts of reasons besides safety.
In my mind consistency is why using Trail Boss (Cheerios) is so good for making centerfire subs. It's pressure to volume ratio is among the lowest, and you can fill the case much more with lower pressures. I feel like it's the easy button, that will give you tight sub groups.
In a situation where I couldn't get any more powder I have a ton of shotgun powder that I can make work. It'll be very low case volume, and probably unacceptably inconsistent, but I can make almost anything go bang with it, and because it's so fast and the loads are so small it will go a long way. Definitely something I would only do as a last resort, but it's there.
I regularly load 7 grains of Red Dot or Promo in 30-30 for cast bullet gallery loads. Kids love shooting them as a break from rimfire. They’re relatively quiet and accurate to 50 yards
I use 3.3 grains of powder with a 115 grain cast bullet in .308 Winchester with zero issues . I shoot reduced loads for jacketed bullets also,H4895 and Tite group mostly . Been doing this for many years, there is a ton of info out there you just have to sift through it...much of the negative crap is myth .
These are not really reduced loads in terms of normal powder loads but special loads predominantly for subsonic use. This is a special case which uses faster powders that are easier to ignite, do not care about orientation of the powder, and do not require full cases. Normally pistol powders are used as they will generate enough gas volume quickly enough for the bullet to engage the rifling and accelerate. The warnings about "detonation" or "flashover" apply to slower burning powders that when used in partially filled cases do not burn correctly and can create excessive pressures if the bullet fails to accelerate properly.
This is good to hear.
Ok, since you know a lot more about this than myself, tell me this then- what's the lowest safe 6.5cm case fill for a powder with a rate like N140, varget, IMR4320, RL15 etc etc. I was going off of Berger's reloading book and heard that those safe starting minimum loads are actually too minimum. What's your experience in that? Any?
The real issue with Trail Boss is its availability or lack there of. Unless you have a stock of it, it’s unobtainable, since they stopped selling it a few years ago.
I can't tell you specifics on a given powder such as N140 or any other specific powder. Unfortunately the issues that can show may or may not show up on any one specific test. What I do know is what some ballistics experts advise. As to Berger's published loads I have heard similar reports that some minimums may be low. I believe that their data is based on Quickload. At least that is what they told me about some 223 load data I requested.
Trail Boss was a powder developed to be used in low power cowboy action shooting and allow adequate case fill. That is why it is often used in reduced power rifle loads.
Hodgdon has numerous reduced recoil loads that they publish that use low for caliber weight bullets with very slow powders that produce low pressures and less recoil at the expense of a lot of unburnt powder. I personally do not have any experience with these loads.
The Hodgdon site subsonic loads use an approach of easily ignitable powders and heavy bullets. again I have no personal experience with these but are familiar with the usage of some of these loads.
If you desire to create reduced recoil the primary focus should be on using the lightest possible bullets and utilizing the powders and lightest loads recommended for that bullet. If that doesn't meet your criteria then it's time to consider different cartridges. If you deviate beyond that you are on your own with no acceptable method to see what is going on.
Understood. Yea initially what caused this thread, was that I was going to use some of those Tubb lapping bullets on some old jacked up bores just to see what they did, and so 1. I didn't want to waste good powder that I normally use on other stuff, on this little experiment, and 2. I didn't feel like getting hammered with a steel buttplate for 50 rounds, just for a test lol.
So that's why getting a pound of red dot to test "the load" was worth it to me so that I have some powder that I dont use for my normal target loads.
So that's why getting a pound of red dot to test "the load" was worth it to me so that I have some powder that I dont use for my normal target loads.
Trail Boss and Tin Star seem non existent these day.
But Trail Boss works for high volume low speed subs in every caliber.
I've done 308 to 50BMG with accurate sub loads.
They give the procedure for loading every cartridges max load.
The Warning is do Not compress this powder...breaking down the little donuts changes the burn rate characteristics.
Fill a fired case with powder to where your bullet lightly sits on the powder, to your cartridges maximum overall length...with No powder compression.
Weigh that powder charge, this is your maximum load. One can go to a lighter charge to adjust velocity but not heavier regardless of velocity.
It was fun powder for subs... but no longer available.
I use Red Dot for 50BMG subs.
I have a bunch of sub loads for 510 whisper but it was designed for subs.
But Trail Boss works for high volume low speed subs in every caliber.
I've done 308 to 50BMG with accurate sub loads.
They give the procedure for loading every cartridges max load.
The Warning is do Not compress this powder...breaking down the little donuts changes the burn rate characteristics.
Fill a fired case with powder to where your bullet lightly sits on the powder, to your cartridges maximum overall length...with No powder compression.
Weigh that powder charge, this is your maximum load. One can go to a lighter charge to adjust velocity but not heavier regardless of velocity.
It was fun powder for subs... but no longer available.
I use Red Dot for 50BMG subs.
I have a bunch of sub loads for 510 whisper but it was designed for subs.
