APA Gen 3 Little Bastard

[Nik H]

I heard about this the other day. Although I am pretty happy with my Hellfire, the tuning aspect with this one intrigued me.

I did a search on the site but haven't seen any threads so wanted to ask if anyone has tried it

 

[Hoyt7mm]

They're in the wild for sure. I know a few guys who have them (only a few weeks) and they have been impressed with the ability to control muzzle rise, especially in positional shooting. It's tempting, but that damn thing is loud

 

[ToddKS]

I just got one last week. The top ports definitely have an effect. I need to do some more testing before I really form an opinion. I was able to achieve better target retention in the scope vs. my previous brake when shooting off baricades. Recoil reduction was excellent and there is not a lot of blast back to the shooter. There were some other effects that I need to work out however before I can offer a fair opinion either way.

 

[Sheldon N]

Wonder how those little ports do with carbon over time, worry they might get clogged up if you don't clean often.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I just ran mine at the Gunwerks nrl match this weekend and the top ports definitely are noticeable. I’m coming from using a 419 hellfire, gen 2 fat bastard, and a Cadex mx1.

ETA: I was running it on by what today’s standards would be a light-ish prs rifle at 18lbs fully loaded.

 

[northshorelumber]

Precision Rifle Blog just put out a nice review of these muzzle breaks. This is the guy that does the "what the pros use" series. Lots of interesting information.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

I just ran mine at the Gunwerks nrl match this weekend and the top ports definitely are noticeable. I’m coming from using a 419 hellfire, gen 2 fat bastard, and a Cadex mx1.

ETA: I was running it on by what today’s standards would be a light-ish prs rifle at 18lbs fully loaded.

How would you compare muzzle rise / target retention to the Hellfire? Better, worse, about the same?

 

[Covertnoob5]

How would you compare muzzle rise / target retention to the Hellfire? Better, worse, about the same?

Muzzle rise seems to be more controlled and almost non existent to me compared to all the ones I mentioned. Recoil seems to be just a push to the shoulder. I noticed it when shooting groups at 100.

 

[Nik H]

Thanks for all of the good information..I think I am going to try it out

 

[lte82]

I just ran a multi person test between a bare muzzle, Impact 2-port brake, 419 Hellfire, and the Gen 3 lil bastard yesterday on a 6x47 and 6 dasher. The Hellfire and Gen 3 LB are really close in terms of recoil reduction, but the Gen 3 LB controlled muzzle flip a hair better. I would probably stick with the Hellfire if I already had them, as the difference was minimal. If I was starting from scratch I would go Gen 3 LB just for the tiny bit of extra control.

 

[dntworry]

Got one last week and put it in my lightweight 300WM and it was night and day difference in felt recoil and muzzle rise vs what I had previously. Liked it so much I ordered a 2nd for my 6.5CM to replace my existing gen 2 LB

 

[cherokeefan03]

Wonder how those little ports do with carbon over time, worry they might get clogged up if you don't clean often.

I wouldn't worry about it. Different style, but the KAC MAMS brake is all just tiny holes of similar or smaller size, and I haven't noticed a lot of buildup over a heavy unsupressed semi-auto firing schedule. I don't forsee the 8 (or however many you use) holes in the APA getting clogged quickly, or much at all.

 

[l47b51]

I contacted

I also have two since I liked the first one so much. Easily the best brake I’ve used so far.

I called yesterday to Apa and asked for. A recommendation for a brake for my new project Remington 700p 300 win they recommended the Lb gen 3. My question is the Fb any better than the Lb. as I’ve never owned any of their products. I have a cowl induction 4 port that is really nice on a 308. Just kinda wandering which way to go any help would be appreciated.

 

[midwestoffroad]

I contacted

I called yesterday to Apa and asked for. A recommendation for a brake for my new project Remington 700p 300 win they recommended the Lb gen 3. My question is the Fb any better than the Lb. as I’ve never owned any of their products. I have a cowl induction 4 port that is really nice on a 308. Just kinda wandering which way to go any help would be appreciated.

The extra port will be a big recoil reducer I wouldn't second guess it. But it is longer so pay attention to that if you need to fit it in a case or have a overall length concern

 

[rustyinbend]

I heard about this the other day. Although I am pretty happy with my Hellfire, the tuning aspect with this one intrigued me.

I did a search on the site but haven't seen any threads so wanted to ask if anyone has tried it

I have the new Gen 3 version on my Tikka 6.5-CM ... it's awesome ... two range trips so far.. Absolutely love the new mount, still tuning for up=and=down, but the recoil management is terrific. Only down-side is that if you're standing laterally to it ... the thing sounds like a friggin' Howitzer.

 

[Pappakap]

As a Gen 2 owner, if I’m not interested in adjusting ports is it worth it? I’m a set it and forget it guy and I can’t imagine an appreciable advancement for someone not looking to micro adjust every aspect of their rig.

 

[LA260]

If you need a brake then get the Gen3, if you already have the Gen 2, hellfire or some other brake that you are happy with it is not worth getting the Gen3 lil b

 

[l47b51]

The extra port will be a big recoil reducer I wouldn't second guess it. But it is longer so pay attention to that if you need to fit it in a case or have a overall length concern

The length is not really a concern I was just curious as if the xtra port would be worth the little xtra money and weight for a 300. Being as the first couple ports see the most gas pressure. Don’t really wanna add xtra length or ports if they are really unnecessary for a 30 cal

 

[l47b51]

If you need a brake then get the Gen3, if you already have the Gen 2, hellfire or some other brake that you are happy with it is not worth getting the Gen3 lil b

Yea I am fixing to purchase one for this rifle my 4 port cowl induction brake is already at home on my 308

 

[midwestoffroad]

The length is not really a concern I was just curious as if the xtra port would be worth the little xtra money and weight for a 300. Being as the first couple ports see the most gas pressure. Don’t really wanna add xtra length or ports if they are really unnecessary for a 30 cal

In every scenario 4 ports are better than 2 or 3

 

[Sferguson53]

I don't have a lot of experience with brakes, but I put a Gen 3 on my 6.5 Creedmoor AI AT that I just got. I've only been to the range once so far. Recoil is negligible. Concussion to shooters in the next lane is pretty strong. Range officer put up a piece of plywood between us to block it. So far, I like it.
Steve

 

[l47b51]

In every scenario 4 ports are better than 2 or 3

I see what your saying but it 5 better than 4 on a 30 cal or is that a tad overkill

I don't have a lot of experience with brakes, but I put a Gen 3 on my 6.5 Creedmoor AI AT that I just got. I've only been to the range once so far. Recoil is negligible. Concussion to shooters in the next lane is pretty strong. Range officer put up a piece of plywood between us to block it. So far, I like it.
Steve

do the top ports really have a good effect on muzzle rise w the tune ability

 

[max1840]

I don't use a top ported muzzle break on any of my bolt action rifles. I have no opinion based on experience but I did watch an interesting youtube video by Mark and Sam After Work about recoil control in which he demonstrated why he didn't care for that type of brake on ELR rifles.

 

[Trek]

My Gen 3 Fat Bastard arrived yesterday, APA was great to deal with! I am currently shooting a AIAX 20” 308 suppressed and will be testing the G3 FB this coming weekend... 1) need to reduce my muzzle lift (impacts <400 yards remain a challenge; but 2) Need to confirm no loss of accuracy. Currently, my suppressed groups are 0.25” better, than with the rapid thread muzzle brake alone (Wilson Combat system).

 

[midwestoffroad]

I see what your saying but it 5 better than 4 on a 30 cal or is that a tad overkill

do the top ports really have a good effect on muzzle rise w the tune ability

30 cal magnums 4-5 are ideal
308 3-4

As for the top ports in theory yes They work But you can spend many range days figuring out your ideal combo.

The closer to the barrel the more effective contradictory side to tune push. . If your shooting off a barricade or unstable position they may be helpful.
If your shooting prone or bench you'll never need to remove a screw and just go gen 2 lil or fb

 

[midwestoffroad]

I don't use a top ported muzzle break on any of my bolt action rifles. I have no opinion based on experience but I did watch an interesting youtube video by Mark and Sam After Work about recoil control in which he demonstrated why he didn't care for that type of brake on ELR rifles.

Correct!! there to tune muzzle rise and side push on PRS style obstacles if your prone there is no need on a good loaded bipod

 

[l47b51]

Correct!! there to tune muzzle rise and side push on PRS style obstacles if your prone there is no need on a good loaded bipod

Right I just wandered if anybody had any luck w the tuning of the top ports and even tho they are plugged I probably wouldn’t use them anyway as long as it works as good as I’m hoping it does well and shouldn’t need em. I have ordered the Lil b gen 3 four port brake so I guess we will see when it gets here

 

[l47b51]

Well I have the gen 3 Lb 4 port ordered so I guess we’ll see how well it tames the old 300 win down w them 200 gr. Eld’s

 

[midwestoffroad]

Not even close to the truth.

Do you have a LB GEN3?

Ive been running one since before they were released and have a few thousand rounds through it at this point.

Took me 5 rounds to get every possible reduction of muzzle rise the brake offers dialled out of my rifle.

The reduction in muzzle rise is significant from all positions including the prone with a loaded bipod.

My rifle is a 6.5 creedmoor and it weighs 12 lbs.
It’s light for a precision rifle.
I get 1 mil of vertical and half a mil of left muzzle rise.
Get yourself a 12 lbs rifle with any other brake that doesn’t have top ports and I guarantee you that number will double if not triple.

The brake works.

If people don’t want to run them because of working relationships or choice-supportive bias that’s fine. But that doesn’t suddenly make it less effective at reducing muzzle rise. Currently, until something better comes out it’s the most effective brake at reducing muzzle rise.
I

I have 2 one on my Dasher and 6creed. I've only recently put 100 rounds threw each . I hevent found a combo that made any difference yet. Not saying it doesn't work. It's not new technology Ares Armory had made the same brake prior to the answer 10 years ago utilizing set screws.

I was shooting of a barcade and tripod and didn't see a noticeable change. It is still under review.

I've never had issues with muzzle rise from prone hence my comments there as

 

[midwestoffroad]

Anyone looking for a gen 2 fat bastard might want to check out the liquidation page at short action customs

 

[midwestoffroad]

...and how much do those rifles weigh?

18-20#

 

[superde]

The reduction in muzzle rise is noticeable compared to others i've run. My comp guns are 22 pounds, but you can tell the difference between a Heathen and the Gen 3 LB. The new LB has less concussive blast to the shooter than the older gen 2. I just left all the screws out FWIW.

 

[BANG...ping]

I spoke with Chad at LRI. He used to make a four port brake. He went to a three port because high speed photography concluded that the fourth port does nothing.

 

[LawnMM]

How do the ports not clog with carbon?

 

[midwestoffroad]

How do the ports not clog with carbon?

Self cleaning lol

 

[BANG...ping]

Self cleaning lol

 

[midwestoffroad]

not bad after close to 100

 

[LawnMM]

not bad after close to 100

100? Rounds?

What's it look like after 500? Or 1000?

 

[midwestoffroad]

Just put it on . But I clean carbon every 200-300 so I'll just toss it in the ultra sonic. I have ARs with thousands of rounds with similar top ports and they look fine. . Not worried about. I could drill them out or weld them shut as far as I'm concerned. I already lost half the screws ?

 

[LawnMM]

Ultrasonic is a good idea for it I suppose

 

[ruger35]

Only thing I'll say is when you are installing the screws watch where your rambunctious kids are. Or you'll be like me and start a couple screws down.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

Only thing I'll say is when you are installing the screws watch where your rambunctious kids are. Or you'll be like me and start a couple screws down.

Thread resurrection... I recently built a 7RM with a 26" barrel and even with the long barrel length, that thing is LOUD. It's not loud to me at all because the shooter is apparently in the cone of silence behind that thing. LOL

People next to you however? Man do I get some looks if I'm at the range doing load development. . Blows stuff off of people benches, hat's flying off, etc... You'll have either side of you to yourself with a quickness if you're at public gun range.

To put it in perspective, I had the RSO send a couple off through my rig while I sat on the bench next him, to see why some people were getting their knickers in a knot about it. I forgot to put my glasses on and my left eye started involuntarily twitching for 5 seconds after his second shot blasted me right in the dome. It's concussive.

Now, I give the people next to me a heads up before I start sending.

However, it is HIGHLY effective with recoil and preventing the barrel from jumping around.

It turned my nasty 7RM into a toddler with recoil. It works.

 

[Milirad]

Thread resurrection... I recently built a 7RM with a 26" barrel and even with the long barrel length, that thing is LOUD. It's not loud to me at all because the shooter is apparently in the cone of silence behind that thing. LOL

People next to you however? Man do I get some looks if I'm at the range doing load development. . Blows stuff off of people benches, hat's flying off, etc... You'll have either side of you to yourself with a quickness if you're at public gun range.

To put it in perspective, I had the RSO send a couple off through my rig while I sat on the bench next him, to see why some people were getting their knickers in a knot about it. I forgot to put my glasses on and my left eye started involuntarily twitching for 5 seconds after his second shot blasted me right in the dome. It's concussive.

Now, I give the people next to me a heads up before I start sending.

However, it is HIGHLY effective with recoil and preventing the barrel from jumping around.

It turned my nasty 7RM into a toddler with recoil. It works.

It's a direct tradeoff between how much recoil reduction you get and how much you thump your firing line mates. There is no magic wand that gives you one without the other. Recoil reduction is achieved by re-directing high velocity, hot gas sideways and backwards - like a jet engine. The more effectively the brake re-directs gas, the more recoil reduction you get and the more gas is pushed at your neighbors. I have been on the receiving end many times and it's a drag. I generally try to arrive early and when possible set up at the end a few positions away from others, especially with a magnum. If you arrive early and set up first, and you are firing when the next person arrives, it's unlikely someone will park next door - sort of like not using deodorant.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

It's a direct tradeoff between how much recoil reduction you get and how much you thump your firing line mates. There is no magic wand that gives you one without the other. Recoil reduction is achieved by re-directing high velocity, hot gas sideways and backwards - like a jet engine. The more effectively the brake re-directs gas, the more recoil reduction you get and the more gas is pushed at your neighbors. I have been on the receiving end many times and it's a drag. I generally try to arrive early and when possible set up at the end a few positions away from others, especially with a magnum. If you arrive early and set up first, and you are firing when the next person arrives, it's unlikely someone will park next door - sort of like not using deodorant.

Well that APA Little Bastard obviously redirects the gases quite efficiently. It's downright obnoxious for others, but my shoulder feels great and I can see my shots.

Again, especially if you're running a magnum and purchase one of these, be nice to people and give them a heads up.