Range Report Applied Ballistics Kestrel; Pro staff support thread

[mil_coder]

Got a couple questions, I was shooting at 1330 yards today. The kestrel gave me 31.7X MOA, my actual MOA needed was 33.0. I had 1 degree of incline. I put my actual MOA needed in the DSF. First, I did not see a change in my elevation after I applied the DSF is this normal? Second, with the 1 degree, I did not see a place to input this into the DSF. Will that effect the DSF calculated? Or should I have calculated the horizontal distance and entered this into the DSF? I understand it will not be a huge difference with only 1 degree, but if it were 20 it would.

The 1 degree of incline won't make a difference. You're still in a relatively "flat-fire" condition there. Anything over 10 degrees will start to be noticeable though. I'd recommend not performing calibrations on inclines like that. The greater the angle, the greater the sensitivity your elevation impact as well.

Out of curiosity, what round are you shooting? If you're above Mach 1.2, then the DSF doesn't kick in (intentionally). In that case, you should be using your muzzle velocity calibration if you're still well in the super sonic. The DSF is meant for trans and subsonic shooting.

 

[mil_coder]

Group - we've released our Kestrel Companion app. Here's the SH link:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...new-app-kestrel-kestrel-companion-mobile.html

 

[JLR]

Hey I noticed at the SilencerCo Quiet Riot match last weekend that occasionally my Kestrel would turn off and not come back on until I popped open the battery door. Is this anything anyone else has had happen?

 

[mil_coder]

Hey I noticed at the SilencerCo Quiet Riot match last weekend that occasionally my Kestrel would turn off and not come back on until I popped open the battery door. Is this anything anyone else has had happen?

I would try first upgrading to this firmware 4.83. There are compass fixes in there that may resolve the problem. If it is still acting up, then give NK support a call - ask for Joe. He'll figure out what's up if it doesn't fix it after the upgrade.

-Nick

 

[JLR]

Thanks, I will have to give that a shot this weekend. Other than that little hiccup, it worked great and helped me end up with a 6th place finish. The only other weird thing was that I took the impeller out to calibrate the compass per the manual and when I put it back in it took a couple power cycles for the unit to recognize the impeller again and start getting readings. I still am just scratching the surface of what this thing can do though, so I'm looking forward to digging into it a bit more.

 

[mil_coder]

Thanks, I will have to give that a shot this weekend. Other than that little hiccup, it worked great and helped me end up with a 6th place finish. The only other weird thing was that I took the impeller out to calibrate the compass per the manual and when I put it back in it took a couple power cycles for the unit to recognize the impeller again and start getting readings. I still am just scratching the surface of what this thing can do though, so I'm looking forward to digging into it a bit more.

Sound compass-related. 4.83 fixes some back end issues on that area. Let me know how it goes.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

On the note of the companion app, It allows the flexibility of having all the custom curves without a separate download. You can easily create profiles using the loader app, which comes with all the custom curves in it. Great app, easy to use, I got to test it in the field, nailed a first shot at 800 yards with little effort and time put in to it. Was on target for every shot after that as well. This app is NOT Limited to Military and LE only.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ab.kestrelcompanion&hl=en

Oh one more thing to note. These guys have been busting their ass to get this stuff up and running and going for your guys. So a thank you to them for allowing me to help out, so they can make this big push of firmware and software happen. They worked pretty hard on it, and were kind enough to allow me to test it and help out on here as well as other places. So thanks to Nick and the others.

 

[thrusty]

Thanks Doc. So far the firmware and companion app are working great. Their hard work is appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Thanks Doc. So far the firmware and companion app are working great. Their hard work is appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Glad to hear it, Don't forget to download the Profile Loader if you havn't already. Manuals and Downloads | Nielsen-Kellerman

 

[Parkerwb14]

The 1 degree of incline won't make a difference. You're still in a relatively "flat-fire" condition there. Anything over 10 degrees will start to be noticeable though. I'd recommend not performing calibrations on inclines like that. The greater the angle, the greater the sensitivity your elevation impact as well.

Out of curiosity, what round are you shooting? If you're above Mach 1.2, then the DSF doesn't kick in (intentionally). In that case, you should be using your muzzle velocity calibration if you're still well in the super sonic. The DSF is meant for trans and subsonic shooting.

I'm shooting a 6.5 SAUM with a 140 hybrid @ 3140 fps.

 

[mil_coder]

I'm shooting a 6.5 SAUM with a 140 hybrid @ 3140 fps.

I took a stab at what I think your setup was approximately and ran things with our Windows app - same ballistics are in the device itself. At 1330 yards, you're still well in the supersonic with that round. I am guessing your altitude is somewhere around 4000-5000 feet based upon that drop data - so that is why the DSF is not kicking in.

In the supersonic region, the largest unknown variable that you have is the muzzle velocity of the round and so that's what should be modified.

Here's a screen capture of the data I used. I would recommend doing the muzzle velocity calibration. I think your muzzle velocity might be a little lower than 3140. If you have high confidence in that number, then I'd look at the BC next.

 

[Parkerwb14]

Nick, sorry for the lack of information. I am at work and do not have all the shot data...oil field keeps me from shooting as much as I'd like too, but pays for the hobby. I cannot see the screen shot clearly. You are correct though my DA is usually somewhere in the 4k-5k region. The 3140 was the average of 10 shots over the Magnetospeed. So, my DSF should read 1.000 if I have not calibrated it, and I'll use the MV calibration to correct for it.

Thanks for your support

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

When using the BootLoader to update the Firmware, or when using the Profile Loader you are going to be asked to select a com port. In response to a number of emails I am going to show you how to find this comport for your AB Kestrel with Bluetooth. Its very very easy.

Step 1: In the search bar for the start menu simply type Bluetooth.
Step 2: Double Click view devices and printers.

Step3: Double click on your kestrel (it should read K4### Indicating model number. So a 4500 will say K4500)

Step4: Once you are in the devices properties its going to have a hardware tab. Click it

Step5: You will see the ComPort in the description it will say (Com 4) or (Com5)

If you ever have trouble with the bootloader, or profile loader, and it seems like its not communicating properly or wont connect this could be the culprit. So make sure you have the correct comport when you are connecting to your kestrel.

 

[Parkerwb14]

Ok, so I consider myself pretty computer savy, but this bluetooth thing is kick my ass. I bought the Kensington adapter PN 33956, plugged it into my computer and it came up with a screen like it was installing the drivers. It popped up in my devices and printers section, but will not find anything. I have tried everything that I can think of, but nothing is working! When I open my device manager, under the BT section I see "BlueSoleil generic bluetooth driver", this is two of these before I plug in the adapter and a third that says the same thing after I plug it in. I read online that the adapter is compatiable with USB 1.2 and 2.0, I have a 3.0 and "USB composite device" according to the device manager. I don't know if this is the problem? I hope someone can help, because I am about to start drinking again and see how far I can throw this computer!

 

[mil_coder]

Ok, so I consider myself pretty computer savy, but this bluetooth thing is kick my ass. I bought the Kensington adapter PN 33956, plugged it into my computer and it came up with a screen like it was installing the drivers. It popped up in my devices and printers section, but will not find anything. I have tried everything that I can think of, but nothing is working! When I open my device manager, under the BT section I see "BlueSoleil generic bluetooth driver", this is two of these before I plug in the adapter and a third that says the same thing after I plug it in. I read online that the adapter is compatiable with USB 1.2 and 2.0, I have a 3.0 and "USB composite device" according to the device manager. I don't know if this is the problem? I hope someone can help, because I am about to start drinking again and see how far I can throw this computer!

At this point - I'd probably call NK directly. Joe there should be able to help you and walk you through it.

 

[Parkerwb14]

Never mind, got it figured out. After some time with the idiot at tech support for Kensington who told me I have a defective unit. I was searching online, and found some drivers for Windows 7 / Vista, and thought what the hell. I downloaded the drivers and installed and wahlaa, I have bluetooth! So, if you are having troubles with Windowns 8, give this a try. It comes with the CD with the drivers on it, but if you do not have a disk drive like me, you can download them here. http://accoblobstorageus.blob.core.windows.net/software/4b769c10-a5ba-4b73-9f06-59de4c314950.zip

 

[mil_coder]

I have a windows 8 at my office (poor me) with a USB 2.0 legacy dongle.

Strangely and not isolated to the Kestrel, I need to delete the bluetooth device and re-pair.

I am more suspect of windows then anything else. My galaxy 3 tab always stays paired on the devices windows intermittently spaces on. FWIW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I often say that Bluetooth is the bane of my existence! It's great when it works but getting it working is always a bit tricky. Developing software for it always seems to be a real pain in my @$$.

 

[mdesign]

Thanks for the support guys...really like my unit.

 

[BGE541]

I apologize for asking this since I am sure it has been asked (but I am NOT computer savvy) can you alter load data (MV etc.) on the fly or do you have to keep coming back to the computer to change inputs? Does the Kestrel have all the projos loaded in it that AB has in App form?

Thank you for your time... saw one in use the other day and if I can figure it out I would like to get one.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I apologize for asking this since I am sure it has been asked (but I am NOT computer savvy) can you alter load data (MV etc.) on the fly or do you have to keep coming back to the computer to change inputs? Does the Kestrel have all the projos loaded in it that AB has in App form?

Thank you for your time... saw one in use the other day and if I can figure it out I would like to get one.

yes you can alter load data on the fly. Through the kestrel itself, or if your using one of the apps you can change the values on the weapons profile. You do not need a computer to do this.

 

[cwinner]

Question about the custom drag curves.........I'm shooting the 230 Berger OTM bullets out of a 300 WM, when trying to set my kestrel to use the included drag curve for what appears to be the 230Hybd it locks the BC to 1.0 and set vs the bullet length to a fixed value that is shorter than the actual length (can't remember the actual length)



Can anyone confirm if this curve is for the Berger 230 OTM Hybrid or if it is for their 230Hybrid Target......there is a small difference.



I'm also wondering if anyone has used this curve successfully and/ or the 300gr one for the 338.



CJW

 

[mil_coder]

Question about the custom drag curves.........I'm shooting the 230 Berger OTM bullets out of a 300 WM, when trying to set my kestrel to use the included drag curve for what appears to be the 230Hybd it locks the BC to 1.0 and set vs the bullet length to a fixed value that is shorter than the actual length (can't remember the actual length)



Can anyone confirm if this curve is for the Berger 230 OTM Hybrid or if it is for their 230Hybrid Target......there is a small difference.



I'm also wondering if anyone has used this curve successfully and/ or the 300gr one for the 338.



CJW

I had to go back and look, but I think it is this one...

30 Cal 230 Grain Match Hybrid OTM Tactical

We've used the 300 gr for the 338 as well.

 

[mil_coder]

The moment many of you have been waiting for has arrived... Yes, the AB Mobile Application is now available for iOS!

While many of you shall see the press releases coming out in the next few hours or over the weekend, here's a link to the software on the iTunes Store...

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/applied-ballistics/id785619104?mt=8

 

[cwinner]

Just downloaded the app......is there any plan to include the H-58 reticle in the available choices?

Also can the user define the step range of the table or the range increment of the plus slider?

I'm sure I may have more questions after I mess with it a while longer.


CJW

 

[mil_coder]

Hey guys - we posted a new article this morning... It's a must read for any long range shooters.

Summary: The question about where the wind matters the most is one that is extremely common and one that we’ve received dozens of times. Having studied the wind for a number of years, we’ve compiled this article. It is intended to investigate how the wind’s influence increases with distance, as well as exploring how wind affects the bullet as it moves from the shooter toward the target.

Link: nVisti, LLC ? Articles

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Great article Nick. It seems to agree a lot with what the Marine Corps taught, and why you take in to account the flags at all the ranges from where you shoot to where the target is.

 

[FlyfishNM]

I am getting different firing solutions from the kestrel 4500 AB than I am from the AB android app. At 1000 yards the AB app is showing about 2 moa more than the kestrel. I have set ref. alt. on the kestrel to 0 and the AB app I use gps to give me environmental. I have also tried entering the environmental data from the kestrel into the AB android app but that doesn't make any difference. I am using the custom curves in the AB app but tried using g7 as well and that too did not make a difference. Is my only option to calibrate manually with actual bullet drop?

 

[justinbaker]

I am getting different firing solutions from the kestrel 4500 AB than I am from the AB android app. At 1000 yards the AB app is showing about 2 moa more than the kestrel. I have set ref. alt. on the kestrel to 0 and the AB app I use gps to give me environmental. I have also tried entering the environmental data from the kestrel into the AB android app but that doesn't make any difference. I am using the custom curves in the AB app but tried using g7 as well and that too did not make a difference. Is my only option to calibrate manually with actual bullet drop?

What environmentals did you enter into the android from the kestrel?


Try changing the android to density altitude and inputting what the kestrel says for it

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I am getting different firing solutions from the kestrel 4500 AB than I am from the AB android app. At 1000 yards the AB app is showing about 2 moa more than the kestrel. I have set ref. alt. on the kestrel to 0 and the AB app I use gps to give me environmental. I have also tried entering the environmental data from the kestrel into the AB android app but that doesn't make any difference. I am using the custom curves in the AB app but tried using g7 as well and that too did not make a difference. Is my only option to calibrate manually with actual bullet drop?

Are the weapons profiles exactly the same?

 

[FlyfishNM]

I tried entering the enviros from the kestrel into the app and also tried having the kestrel feed the enviros via Bluetooth directly to the app. I've checked, checked again, and checked some more that all my rifle/ammo profiles are entered exactly the same.

I did ok out to a thousand yards with the Grendel and the 7 mag just using the kestrel. Had a few low but I figured I had some inconsistencies in mv as I didn't break out the chrony for this trip.

The only reason I bought the ap droid app was for the custom curves as I don't own a PC.

So far I have entered 4 different loads into kestrel and ap droid app and all have about a 2 moa difference at a thousand yards with the exception of the 7mag load which shows a difference of about 1/2 moa.

I've got to be missing something. I messed with these for about five hours today trying to figure it out.

 

[mil_coder]

I tried entering the enviros from the kestrel into the app and also tried having the kestrel feed the enviros via Bluetooth directly to the app. I've checked, checked again, and checked some more that all my rifle/ammo profiles are entered exactly the same.

I did ok out to a thousand yards with the Grendel and the 7 mag just using the kestrel. Had a few low but I figured I had some inconsistencies in mv as I didn't break out the chrony for this trip.

The only reason I bought the ap droid app was for the custom curves as I don't own a PC.

So far I have entered 4 different loads into kestrel and ap droid app and all have about a 2 moa difference at a thousand yards with the exception of the 7mag load which shows a difference of about 1/2 moa.

I've got to be missing something. I messed with these for about five hours today trying to figure it out.

The AB Android app doesn't include aerodynamic jump (yet). Try setting your wind speed to zero on the Kestrel and comparing the results. The Kestrel is accounting for aerodynamic jump and will cause differences in the point of impact calculations. Otherwise, they should be identical.

If you send me your data, I can verify that I can also get everything identical to you and verify that it's correctly entered.

-Nick

 

[mil_coder]

Just an FYI - doing a soft/BETA release of the AB Profile loader with over 100 new bullets in the custom curves library... go grab it from here:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Software/ABLoader.exe

 

[flounderv2]

Just an FYI - doing a soft/BETA release of the AB Profile loader with over 100 new bullets in the custom curves library... go grab it from here:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Software/ABLoader.exe

Done and Downloaded.

 

[mil_coder]

Done and Downloaded.

If you run into any bugs - let me know. I'll get 'em addressed and turned around.

 

[earthquake]

Just got my Kestrel AB and started messing with it today. Apologies if this has been asked already, but haven't had time to sift through all the posts/pages here yet and am headed to the range. I cannot find the Berger 140 Hybrid (0.264) in the custom drag profiles. Kinda surprised at this. Also, when I do load one, say the Berger 140 VLD, in the 'Ballistic Coefficient' spot, it says 1.000 lb/in^2. Do I leave it here since it's a "custom" drag curve, or do I need to change it to the stated one of 0.317 from the box?

Thanks!

 

[farmerbrown]

Just got my Kestrel AB and started messing with it today. Apologies if this has been asked already, but haven't had time to sift through all the posts/pages here yet and am headed to the range. I cannot find the Berger 140 Hybrid (0.264) in the custom drag profiles. Kinda surprised at this. Also, when I do load one, say the Berger 140 VLD, in the 'Ballistic Coefficient' spot, it says 1.000 lb/in^2. Do I leave it here since it's a "custom" drag curve, or do I need to change it to the stated one of 0.317 from the box?

Thanks!

Hi - are you trying to add with a PC Profile Loader?
The AB unit itself only has 10 custom drag curves included.
The PC connection is needed to add any more.
And it does show up as 1.000 or something.

I see three custom drag functions for the Berger 140 gn in .264 in my PC version: VLD, LRBT and BT.

If you don't have the PC connection, add it with the G7 value on the box instead.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

do you have the bluetooth model?

 

[earthquake]

Yes i was messing with the pc loader and do not find the .264 140 gr Berger hybrids. I do not have the bluetooth model.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

do you have the pc cable?

 

[earthquake]

No. I just realized it isnt a bt model (it was a gift)...gotta pick one up soon!

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

They have a trade up program. Turn yours in, get a discount on a better model. Or you can sell it in the classifieds here.

Another thing to keep in mind, is until them. In the AB Software, or AB Tactical you can hand load the data for now.

 

[flounderv2]

Figured I would post a quick update of my experience.

I finally got out yesterday to dial in and play with my new AB Kestrel. Decided to see how it did at distance which is where Ive had discrepancies of calculated vs actual with Shooter. Anyway, I started the day with a cold bore impact on the 12x12 plate at 1K so needless to say initial impressions could not have been better. After about 5 shots, I decided to try it out at the mile target with the 6.5CM. The Terrapin said 1716yards and the AB Kestrel said 22.17 mil; I dialed 22.2 mil and impacted just a hair off the left side. Nicely done AB! Since the dope was spot on using the 142smk custom drag curve, I really didnt have to play with the DSF at all so I moved over to the 20" AR running 77smk at 2700. This little rifle amazes pretty much everyone that shoots it and is boringly accurate out to 600-700. Ive gone 3/3 at 1K with it as long as the wind is consistent. I ran the numbers and adjusted the DSF for it at 700 and 1K and it ran great. No problems hitting targets out to 1k. I will say that the AR is wearing a 4-16 PST and Ive never box tested to scope to make sure the clicks are accurate but after adjusting the DSF she was still good to go out to 1k and back. Like I said, Im really impressed and cant wait to play with it more.

 

[Sevo2300]

If I am using two bullets with different zeros with one gun, how do I correctly enter the correction in the gun selection. I assume that I would have ZH=0 and ZO=0 for the main profile and, assuming that the second bullet hits 1 inch left and 1 inch low, ZH=-1 and ZO=-1 for the second profile. Also, any chance of adding the ability to calculate wind dot values for the Tremor reticles like the ATRAG version can?

 

[mil_coder]

If I am using two bullets with different zeros with one gun, how do I correctly enter the correction in the gun selection. I assume that I would have ZH=0 and ZO=0 for the main profile and, assuming that the second bullet hits 1 inch left and 1 inch low, ZH=-1 and ZO=-1 for the second profile. Also, any chance of adding the ability to calculate wind dot values for the Tremor reticles like the ATRAG version can?

Yes, you are correct. You might need to verify the signs to make sure it's one inch low and one inch left. If I recall, we programmed it as where the zero position is at relative to your current point of impact, so it would have the opposite sign of what you have here. I went through this a few days ago with dieselgeek and I think that was correct for him.

With respect to the wind dots - we'll discuss internally on what it takes to make that happen... the math is easy.. but not sure what it requires otherwise and if it's proprietary or not.

 

[FlyfishNM]

Ok, so I went out and bought a windows tablet just so I could download the custom curves to the kestrel. Got the Bluetooth paired, the profile completed on the tablet and copied to the kestrel side of the screen. When I try to send the profile to the kestrel I get a window that shows: Progress
Getting protocol version.....
0%

Sometimes it freezes on this screen sometimes it doesn't but it never goes above 0%. I also have tried all the com port options to no avail. I am somewhat computer illiterate, any help is appreciated.

 

[popeye089]

Make sure you have blue tooth enabled on the kestrel and your tablet, check to see what com port your blue tooth is set on. Sometimes I have problems syncing all my profiles but I find that if I keep my kestrel on medium power and about 3-5' away helps.

 

[FlyfishNM]

Ok, finally got it to work one time before it froze up on me. It's a two hundred dollar tablet, I figured it would work for this application but you get what you pay for I guess.

 

[femadog]

I just wanted to give a quick review on my first run with the Kestrel 4500 AB. I used it for a match with varied distances from 200 to 800 yards (most over 600) with light winds. I uploaded the ammo profile using 100 yard chrono data (308, 168 Amax @2606 fps). This was also the first time I got to shoot the gun over 200 yards (DTA SRS).

I have to say I'm a happy camper. I think all of the elevations were spot on and I got a fair number of first round hits. I was going to use the android app to see the dope better but I ended up just changing the distance from shot to shot on the kestrel, dialing in the numbers and shooting. I can see the value of the app if you want to have the Kestrel on a remote wind vane.

As a side note, this was also the first time shooting the DTA out to these distances and it was fantastic. With the Thunderbeast can, it was like shooting a 22. I was able to stay on target and see impacts the whole time. Can't wait to get it out further.

 

[mil_coder]

Ok, finally got it to work one time before it froze up on me. It's a two hundred dollar tablet, I figured it would work for this application but you get what you pay for I guess.

At this point, I would go and give NK support a call. Joe will likely take the call. He can walk you through it. It sounds like you have everything paired correctly.

A couple of things that I usually tell people when they ask is to get the device within a few feet of the tablet and then try it with the BT settings on the Kestrel set equal to high and then set equal to low. There are different settings internally that are being set and sometimes, depending on the device it is connecting to, the device likes one setting over the other.

 

[FlyfishNM]

Will do. Thank you.