AR 10 VS M1A EBR

#401
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we had what we called "sharshooters" </div></div>

What exactly by definition is a sharshooter? Is that just some crazy lingo you sharshooters came up with?

</div></div>

I don't make up the words, either for the unit, or Army wide. Sharpshooters is what our unit called M16 guys with 4x scopes. I don't know who makes up the lingo, but Sharshooter makes a whole lot more sense than Marksman to me.

In the Army, the lowest rifle qualification badge is called Marksman, the Middle Badge is "Sharpshooter", and the top one "Expert".

In my unit, we had no "Sharpshooter" or "DMR" qualification, just the standard Rifle Qual with iron sites. Eventually the 4x rifle scopes got quietly phased out.
 
#402
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we had what we called "sharshooters" </div></div>

What exactly by definition is a <span style="color: #FF0000">sharshooter</span>? Is that just some crazy lingo you <span style="color: #FF0000">sharshooters</span> came up with?

</div></div>

I don't make up the words, either for the unit, or Army wide. Sharpshooters is what our unit called M16 guys with 4x scopes. I don't know who makes up the lingo, but <span style="color: #FF0000">Sharshooter</span> makes a whole lot more sense than Marksman to me.
</div></div>

And yet further evidence that makes me wonder if you actually read what is posted. You spelled Sharpshooter wrong... even in your response... lol
 
#403
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I just looked up the term "Sharshooter", it seems to have been a very commonly used words for Centuries. The term SDM and DMR, are terms the Military now uses, as well as all the "Operators" on gun forums.

I can understand why the Gun Forum Operator Rangers thinks the term "Sharpshooter" is crazy lingo, no harm no foul.

As you can see, Cartmann is a very understanding guy.
 
#404
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just looked up the term "<span style="color: #FF0000">Sharshooter</span>", it seems to have been a very commonly used words for Centuries. The term SDM and DMR, are terms the Military now uses, as well as all the "Operators" on gun forums.

I can understand why the Gun Forum Operator Rangers thinks the term "Sharpshooter" is crazy lingo, no harm no foul.

As you can see, Cartmann is a very understanding guy. </div></div>

I thought maybe the "p" on your computer was broke, but I see you have no problems using it other places, lol...
 
#405
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we had what we called "sharshooters" </div></div>

What exactly by definition is a <span style="color: #FF0000">sharshooter</span>? Is that just some crazy lingo you <span style="color: #FF0000">sharshooters</span> came up with?

</div></div>

I don't make up the words, either for the unit, or Army wide. Sharpshooters is what our unit called M16 guys with 4x scopes. I don't know who makes up the lingo, but <span style="color: #FF0000">Sharshooter</span> makes a whole lot more sense than Marksman to me.
</div></div>

And yet further evidence that makes me wonder if you actually read what is posted. You spelled Sharpshooter wrong... even in your response... lol </div></div>

My bad. Will you forgive me?
 
#406
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just looked up the term "<span style="color: #FF0000">Sharshooter</span>", it seems to have been a very commonly used words for Centuries. The term SDM and DMR, are terms the Military now uses, as well as all the "Operators" on gun forums.

I can understand why the Gun Forum Operator Rangers thinks the term "Sharpshooter" is crazy lingo, no harm no foul.

As you can see, Cartmann is a very understanding guy. </div></div>

I thought maybe the "p" on your computer was broke, but I see you have no problems using it other places, lol... </div></div>

It is kinda stuck LOL, that is why I only got it 3 out of 4 times in my second ost.
 
#409
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Sharpshooter is a guy with an M16 that is equipped with a 4x scope?

When were you enlisted? </div></div>

I don't know what you called them. Not too many 4x scopes back then either.

No one in my unit really used these Colt 4x scopes. They talked about issuing these Colt 4x scopes out but this was never really implemented.

We had no ACOG's back then, these 4x scopes were carry handle mounted. When we were deployed to the Gulf (Gulf War I), the scopes did not follow our unit.

I tried to get one of these 4x scopes about 10 years ago but had no success for my own SP1 Rifle. However, I was able to locate a discussion on AR15.com awhile back about these scopes: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=550550

Since I have ACOGs now, no need for this scope. Actually it looks pretty retarded, but hey, back then they were cool.
 
#410
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Eric

I don't know how they operated. I don't ask questions for several reasons. More so with this guy which would be:
1)He thinks I'm a weirdo/crazy
2)He prolly drinks a 30pack a day so understanding what he says is kinda hard for me. Especially on his days off where he starts drinking early and his speech sounds more like grumbles.
3)Don't want to be offensive, and last thing I want is getting into a fight with a Servicemen....much less my own neighbor.
But I could ask his friend who lives right next door to him. He was working Coms I think. The both of them have been in service since Nam if my memory serves me correctly, and are still serving. He is much more open and friendly so I can ask some questions if you like. As long as they obviously aren't asinine. So you may get second hand knowledge...(or is it third hand?) about his experience with the M14.
And yes I do realize people get attatched to their gear. Which is why I made the slanty letters. I may have accidently coined the term DM, but like I said its kinda hard to understand the guy.<span style="color: #FF6666"> =P </span>
 
#411
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tengu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric

I don't know how they operated. I don't ask questions for several reasons. More so with this guy which would be:
1)He thinks I'm a weirdo/crazy
2)He prolly drinks a 30pack a day so understanding what he says is kinda hard for me. Especially on his days off where he starts drinking early and his speech sounds more like grumbles.
3)Don't want to be offensive, and last thing I want is getting into a fight with a Servicemen....much less my own neighbor.
But I could ask his friend who lives right next door to him. He was working Coms I think. The both of them have been in service since Nam if my memory serves me correctly, and are still serving. He is much more open and friendly so I can ask some questions if you like. As long as they obviously aren't asinine. So you may get second hand knowledge...(or is it third hand?) about his experience with the M14.
And yes I do realize people get attatched to their gear. Which is why I made the slanty letters. I may have accidently coined the term DM, but like I said its kinda hard to understand the guy.<span style="color: #FF6666"> =P </span> </div></div>


Well I guess every input counts, even if he drinks a 30 pack a day.
 
#412
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Off topic

If he is still serving and has a Vietnam service ribbon he is pretty long in the tooth. Practically every senior staff NCO had one when I served 86-91 but they must be pretty scarce by now. If you figure you got one for the Mayaguez incident your looking at about 37 years of service. Not saying it aint possible but I'd want to see his SRB or official photo with ribbon rack. The last WWII Marine retired from the Reserves when I was in - thats long in the tooth and means I am old.

Wont be surprised if I'm wrong on this but I make a point of looking when they show the high ranking Gens on TV these days and most of them dont even have a VN service ribbon.



Back on topic

My second opinion

Other than personal preference or an individual ability to shoot the 14 better there is more plus side to the AR over the M14. I still want both but I'm getting my AR first.

Third opinion Cartmann's presentation has been obnoxious but I think he argues from the side of truth and should be allowed his balls.

I wonder what would have been the history of the argument if McNamara had not had a hard on for taking down the Armory system - would the cottage industry design have been produced in favor of the big gov production house.
 
#413
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Off topic

If he is still serving and has a Vietnam service ribbon he is pretty long in the tooth. Practically every senior staff NCO had one when I served 86-91 but the must be pretty scarce by now. If you figure you got one for the Mayaguez incident your looking at about 37 years of service. Not saying it aint possible but I'd want to see his SRb or official photo with ribbon rack.

Back on topic

My second opinion

Other than personal preference and a personal ability to be able to shoot it better there is more plus side to the AR over the M14. I still want both but I'm getting my AR first.

Wont be surprised if I'm wrong on this but I make a point of looking when they show the high ranking Gens on TV these days and most of them dont even have a VN service ribbon. </div></div>

I missed that "Served in Nam and still serving part". Considering Vietnam was 40 or more years ago, these guys are like Super Humans, they must be superheros. LOL

It's always nice to get input of the M14 from A super hero hahahahaha

I got out in '93 and by then only about 7 guys in my entire Battalion had a Vietnam Service Ribbon.
 
#414
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Sharpshooter is a guy with an M16 that is equipped with a 4x scope? </div></div> A sharp shooter is less than 40 points on Marine qualification range.
 
#415
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

pmclaine
Sure I can ask for that....long in the tooth. Yeah we don't call him Grandpa for no reason.

Eric
If you don't want the info then I needent bother. I've known the guy for more than ten years. It really isn't any skin off my back. I've got more important things to do than appease the appitites of an ass.
So either take the info for what its worth, and show a little more respect, or don't bother at all. I'm more than willing to find out if its true (or not), but I'm not going to jump just to gain favor. I just figured it would be interesting, and "may" contribute to the thread in a long round-a-bout way. Couldn't be any worse than the hospog of posts you've contributed so far. Not saying you didn't provide good info from time to time, but some of the others was really just a wast of time IMO.
 
#416
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tengu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pmclaine
Sure I can ask for that....long in the tooth. Yeah we don't call him Grandpa for no reason.

Eric
If you don't want the info then I needent bother. I've known the guy for more than ten years. It really isn't any skin off my back. I've got more important things to do than appease the appitites of an ass.
So either take the info for what its worth, and show a little more respect, or don't bother at all. I'm more than willing to find out if its true (or not), but I'm not going to jump just to gain favor. I just figured it would be interesting, and "may" contribute to the thread in a long round-a-bout way. Couldn't be any worse than the hospog of posts you've contributed so far. Not saying you didn't provide good info from time to time, but some of the others was really just a wast of time IMO. </div></div>

Oh no, I want the info! I want to hear from a Vietnam Vet that is still currently in the service. He did not carry a M16 at all?
 
#417
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I can't let this thread die. So I made my top 4 .308 battle rifle rankings. Keep in mind, this is .308 only, and ranking is for "battle rifle" and nothing more.

Here is how I rate the 4 main .308 Cold War battle rifles:

4) M1A/M14 -
I am a M14 fan but unlike most M14 fans, I know this weapon is out-dated. It was out-dated in the 1950's when it first came out and it is still out dated now. It feels like a Garand except the Garand is better balanced.

Platform is difficult to scope and any scope mount that is mounted to the receiver just wants to twist itself off. The good Scope mounts such as Sadlack or SEI are around $250!! This before rings and scope. Even if you do successfully scope it, cheekweld will be horrible.

It has many tiny parts and springs that can easily wear and fail without warning. The entire M14 action just drops into a wooden or fiberglass stock that requires bedding to make it better than 5 MOA.

The Sage platform does solve a lot of the M14's problem. It free-floats the barrel, mounts the action solid so no bedding is required, gives you a solid method to mount the scope, and it gives you good cheek-weld with optics. But with a Sage and a scope you turned a nice offhand shooter into a prone only shooter.

Don't think I am a M14 hater, I have 2, one a Polytech I keep plain, and the other an M1A in an EBR aluminum chassis. My M1A is balls accurate and I would have to say it beats my AR10 SuperSASS in the accuracy department once you go more than 5 rounds, as the SASS groups really opens up after 5 rounds.


3) G3/HK91/PTR91
The G3 has those great diopter sites and the thing is rugged as hell. It does have bad ergos, kicks like a mule, and feels unbalanced but it is put together nicely and it is built like a tank. For any battle rifle, reliability is #1 and the G3 is probably right up there with the FAL and AK in that aspect. If you want to run optics though, the G3 is lacking unless you have a gun where the mount is welded on the reciever. Those claw mounts seem to want to come loose.


2) AR-10
The AR-10 has ergo's better than the FAL, and out of the box is more accurate, but this is only with match ammo. With milsurp ammo both the FAL and AR-10 get about the same 5-6" 20-shot groups. I actually like the AR-10 more than the FAL, it handles better, it is easier to scope, and it has great ergos like all AR's do. My 2 AR-10's have been ultra reliable but I still would have to rate the AR-10 below the FAL only because it has not proven itself reliable like the FAL has. AR10's are still AR's so there is still a chance you will see broken lugs and gas keys coming loose. While the FAL has proven it can still shoot even when things break. AR-10's come all ready to scope, and you can add your choice of AR flip up sites. You can even get HK style sites if you so desire. The AR10 is plug and play and everything on an AR you can do yourself.


1) FAL
The FAL is one solid beast and the recoil is like butter. It is everything a semi auto .308 should be. Easy to handle, easy kick, and ultra reliable. Though mine never really gets that dirty, I know it will still shoot when ultra dirty, as proven by Ole Dirty. When the SHTF, most likely you will forget your cleaning kit, and you have to have the ability to shoot dirty and shoot all types of ammo. The FAL can do that. Another plus with the FAL is it is easy to scope with a solid mounting platform that will only run you $80 (DSA HD scope mounts).
 
#419
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a very fair and objective stacking although I'd argue (a little) on the FAL's scope mounting. Easy, but not sniper-grade solid nor consistent. </div></div>

I don't consider the FAL to be up to par as an AR10 for a sniper grade rifle. It is a solid mounting platform though, and with blue loctite it stays put.
 
#422
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the sound of one hand clapping? </div></div>

you don't like .308 battle rifles?
 
#424
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheKing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a larue OBR and a crossfit gym membership. You are gonna need it for 308 driven room clearing. </div></div>

I am pretty much sure everyone is in shaper here and built like a tank.
 
#425
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I've had every variation of EBR there is and I'd say go AR10 variant every day of the week. The ebr is a beautiful stock, but pain in the ass installation and heavy as shit
 
#426
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheKing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a larue OBR and a crossfit gym membership. You are gonna need it for 308 driven room clearing. </div></div>

and extra earpro and armor for your team once you start shooting a .308 inside of a ship...
 
#428
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, this crap thread is still going??? </div></div>

what's crap about it?
 
#429
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Mostly the bickering... Also surprised a thread started by a short lived douche-bag managed to hold on this long... well after he stopped coming around.
 
#430
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mostly the bickering... Also surprised a thread started by a short lived douche-bag managed to hold on this long... well after he stopped coming around. </div></div>

It's not a perfect world.
frown.gif


If people would just come to their senses and realize that the M14 sucks, and does not come close to the AR10 in features, it would not get to bickering
wink.gif
 
#431
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

You could go M1A socom with the EBR, for room clearing with the stock in you would have a small hard hitting package. Mount a rmr on a 45degree mount
 
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