AR-15 Failure

[ToddKS]

I was shooting my AR-15 today when I had a failure that I have never encountered before. The bolt was stuck in the full forward position in the carrier assembly. The problem is that the bolt sticking forward left me unable to open the action to remove the BCA to address the situation.

I carry a pretty complete set of tools and parts so in an effort to resolve the situation I held the bolt half open while my friend used a punch and a small hammer to try and move the bolt rearward. No luck. We traded duties and I tried tapping it. Still nothing. The bolt appeared to be frozen solid.

I realized that with the bolt frozen forward, the only way I could remove the BCA to fix it was to remove the barrel. When I got home I proceeded to remove the barrel. I removed the gas block and tube and took loose my Yankee Hill free float forearm. I was just starting to loosen the main retaining nut to remove the barrel when the bolt suddenly went home and the BCA came forward.

I removed the BCA and disassembled it. I was expecting to find a broken gas ring, etc., but I cannot find anything out of order. I cannot find any burrs in the channel of the BCA and there is no visible wear on the bolt cam pin. Before going out I had lubed the BCA with Slip 2000 and everything appeared to still be properly lubed. I reassembled the BCA and now it appears to work fine.

I am at a complete loss. Has anyone else experienced a similar failure? If so, what was the cause and remedy. My concern it that even though everything seems to be working fine now, it could fail again my next trip to the range.

Any feedback would be appreciated as I have no idea what caused this.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[biner626]

Re: AR-15 Failure

What is the total round count on the rifle?
If its brand spanking new: Lube the crap out of the BCG and cycle the bolt several times to work out any burrs or parkerizing on the BCG.
If its older: Try a different buffer spring.
Sounds like the bolt didn't cam the lugs into the extension. I had this happen on a new build.

 

[cruze5]

Re: AR-15 Failure

what is the overall length of the ammo you are shooting?

did you try hitting the butt of the rifle on the ground multiple times?

 

[dogman]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Mortar that bitch.

 

[ToddKS]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Thanks for the suggestions. I believe I found the culprit.

After getting the bolt out, cleaning it for good measure, and the putting the BCA back together, I reassembled the rifle. The bolt was working fine when I put it in, but when I went to cycle it the bolt was stuck forward again. After cycling the rifle 3 more times, the bolt went forward, but was now stuck in that position.

At this point I took some of the advise offered previously. I grasped the charging handle with one hand and banged the butt of the rifle on the ground. The second smack not only opened the bolt, but ejected the remains of a spent primer. I do not know where in the rifle that had been hiding, but it is out now and everything works normally once again.

 

[flyrodder]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I've had a couple of primers come loose and cause major (complete disassembly - mallet involved)malfunctions. Guess that dime I saved reloading brass with loose primer pockets wasn't my finest financial moment (although probably not my worst, either!).

 

[fmsniper]

Re: AR-15 Failure

check gas tube make sure it is not damaged sticking in the bolt carrier Key

 

[dixiejarhead]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I almost posted that you may have a piece of scrap brass in there somewhere then I told myself no, don't post that, I'm sure he's checked it really well.

Glad you got it straight.

 

[taliv]

Re: AR-15 Failure

it's rare, but it does happen.

At a Pat Rogers class, he said he's seen (iirc) popped primers make their way into the gas key (wtf?) and also into the cam-pin hole in the bolt carrier, which is really annoying since the it will obviously allow the carrier to move only a mm or two in either direction, making it appear frozen BUT, if you recognize the malf, invert the rifle and jiggle the CH, it will fall out, and if you incorrectly diagnose the problem and mortar the rifle, you will make the problem much worse by crushing the primer inside the BCG making it impossible to remove.

I have seen the latter problem once, but never the former (the odds of that are just incredible)

 

[dogman]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Same thing happened at one of my Pat Rogers courses...maybe it's Pat

This was when there where an assload of problems with the XM193 ammo. It was to the point where he said don't shoot it in his class...locked up carbine was using XM193.

 

[ToddKS]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Dixiejarhead,

If you had asked me that I would have told you that I had looked for debris and that the rifle was clean. Clearly I missed something but I still have no idea where that primer was.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortar that bitch. </div></div>


Exactly. Very simple solution. End of story. Sometimes I'm surprised the amount of guys that don't know how to do this.

 

[BCP]

Re: AR-15 Failure

The remains of popped primers can end up floating around inside the barrel extension. If it was flattened to the point of looking like a piece of aluminum foil that was probably where it was hiding.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I've seen them end up under the trigger as well. That always makes for a fun day!

 

[fx77]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Had something similar when the buffer retainer adn its spring popped out and got caught under the BCA..I was able to close the bolt, open the rifle, and from the top saw nothing until I took out the BCA and found the 2 loose parts caught underneath. The spring was all torn up. the problem was noted when the buffer sping came out upon opening the rifle.

 

[customgun1]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortar that bitch.</div></div> although i would never do this i have often felt like it, i have heard of people having this same problem when using slidefire stocks or bump firing...wonder if they to have a similar culprit...

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dixiejarhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen them end up under the trigger as well. That always makes for a fun day! </div></div>Yep. I have a bunch of reloads in LC brass that was supposedly loaded to (approx) M193 specs. The stuff is very accurate for what it is, but twice now, popped primers have ended up in my trigger mechanism, locking it up.

It's an easy fix, once you know to look for it. Pop the trigger mechanism pin almost all the way out to where the trigger is loose in the receiver and shake the thing out.

Needless to say, those are the last reloads I'm buying unless it's Black Hills or equivalent.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: AR-15 Failure

What is this??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortar that bitch. </div></div>


Exactly. Very simple solution. End of story. Sometimes I'm surprised the amount of guys that don't know how to do this. </div></div>

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Mortaring an AR is a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">totally fuckin' safe</span></span></span></span> field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: AR-15 Failure

WOW. Well, thats good to know in a case of SHTF scenario.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortaring an AR is a pretty dangerous field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure. </div></div>

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: customgun1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortar that bitch.</div></div> although i would never do this i have often felt like it, i have heard of people having this same problem when using slidefire stocks or bump firing...wonder if they to have a similar culprit...
</div></div>

You would never do this?

Sometimes you can have something as simple as a double feed that jams up the bolt badly enough that arm strength alone won't get the bolt to the rear.

I didn't say bash the living fuck out of your rifle. But a proper "mortar" of the rifle doesn't take a whole lot of force usually and clears a problem right up.

Something that is in fact very useful to those of us that have been in situations where you need to get your rifle up and running right this second. Not take it home and be gentle with it till you find out the problem.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortaring an AR is a pretty dangerous field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure. </div></div>


I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?

You said it yourself, don't point it at your buddy's jawline when you do it. But that shouldn't need to be stated since we all should be following safety rule number 1 at all times. Whether the rifle is unloaded or not.

The point is if your acting in a safe manner and observing your safety rules (as usual) there is nothing unsafe about doing this. Especially since most of the time when this technique needs to be used the bolt is NOT fully forward. And if the bolt isn't fully forward it's pretty hard to fire off an inadvertent round now isn't it.

Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha


If I'm a a range, public or not. And I have a jam of some sort that requires this I have two choices.

1. Go home and mortar the rifle in a safe manner to clear the jam.

2 Stay at the range, mortar the rifle in a safe manner, and continue shooting.

Guess which I'm fucking doing.

 

[cb_tikka]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I had to mortar a crappy AR a couple of times. If I'm at a range I let the RO do it. Just follow the safety rules already mentioned.

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortaring an AR is a pretty dangerous field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure. </div></div>


I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?

You said it yourself, don't point it at your buddy's jawline when you do it. But that shouldn't need to be stated since we all should be following safety rule number 1 at all times. Whether the rifle is unloaded or not.

The point is if your acting in a safe manner and observing your safety rules (as usual) there is nothing unsafe about doing this. Especially since most of the time when this technique needs to be used the bolt is NOT fully forward. And if the bolt isn't fully forward it's pretty hard to fire off an inadvertent round now isn't it.

Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha


If I'm a a range, public or not. And I have a jam of some sort that requires this I have two choices.

1. Go home and mortar the rifle in a safe manner to clear the jam.

2 Stay at the range, mortar the rifle in a safe manner, and continue shooting.

Guess which I'm fucking doing.

</div></div>

I have done this many times at public ranges....even for people who cant do it for themselves.... I defy you to find the rifle going off for doing this....

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?</div></div>
As I understand it, the bolt is stuck in the forward position, therefore you can't verify it is unloaded. And even if you know it's loaded, you are potentially launching a round into the air with an unknown resting place for the end of it's trajectory.

Unless I'm missing something, that's how this could be dangerous.

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?</div></div>
As I understand it, the bolt is stuck in the forward position, therefore you can't verify it is unloaded. And even if you know it's loaded, you are potentially launching a round into the air with an unknown resting place for the end of it's trajectory.

Unless I'm missing something, that's how this could be dangerous. </div></div>

Massad Ayoob in his book " Stress Fire" said to use this technique in clearing a jammed Semi auto shotgun..in contrast in an AR style weapon your inertia is going backwards and in turn pulling the firing pin back...or am I mistaken?

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?</div></div>
As I understand it, the bolt is stuck in the forward position, therefore you can't verify it is unloaded. And even if you know it's loaded, you are potentially launching a round into the air with an unknown resting place for the end of it's trajectory.

Unless I'm missing something, that's how this could be dangerous. </div></div>

You obviously have no experience with this at all. So how about just not commenting?

I actually don't remember a single time the bolt was all the way forward when doing a "mortar". Usually it is needed when one or more rounds jam up the bolt, not when it is fully forward. However, I would not hesitate to do it with a fully forward bolt. And I have never seen or heard anyone inadvertently firing off a round because of this action.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortaring an AR is a pretty dangerous field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure. </div></div>


I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?

You said it yourself, don't point it at your buddy's jawline when you do it. But that shouldn't need to be stated since we all should be following safety rule number 1 at all times. Whether the rifle is unloaded or not.

The point is if your acting in a safe manner and observing your safety rules (as usual) there is nothing unsafe about doing this. Especially since most of the time when this technique needs to be used the bolt is NOT fully forward. And if the bolt isn't fully forward it's pretty hard to fire off an inadvertent round now isn't it.

Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha


If I'm a a range, public or not. And I have a jam of some sort that requires this I have two choices.

1. Go home and mortar the rifle in a safe manner to clear the jam.

2 Stay at the range, mortar the rifle in a safe manner, and continue shooting.

Guess which I'm fucking doing.

</div></div>

Without overstating the obvious, the danger lies in pointing the weapon skyward while attempting to clear a jam of unknown nature. 'Be sure of your target and what's beyond it'---yeah in Iraq who gives a shit but stateside an inadvertent discharge could suck big time. I didn't mean to insinuate the rifle would explode or something along those lines, just clarifying that you will not be pointing the rifle in a safe direction when performing a mortaring technique.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mortaring an AR is a pretty dangerous field technique to clear a jammed rifle that won't cycle. Basically, you hold the rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky, (not to your friend's jawline) and while applying downward force on the charging handle you slam the buttstock to the ground. The combined force of you pulling on the charging handle and the inertia from slamming the rifle down is usually enough to force the bolt clear. If you have the technique down right, you can clear the chamber with a single mortaring attempt.

Now, don't do this at a public range or in a location where an inadvertent discharge could be disastrous. If you have to mortar around other shooters, give the RO and neighboring shooters a heads up.

Eta: It would be prudent to remove the magazine and set the rifle on 'safe' when you do this procedure. </div></div>


I'm sorry, how is this a dangerous technique?

You said it yourself, don't point it at your buddy's jawline when you do it. But that shouldn't need to be stated since we all should be following safety rule number 1 at all times. Whether the rifle is unloaded or not.

The point is if your acting in a safe manner and observing your safety rules (as usual) there is nothing unsafe about doing this. Especially since most of the time when this technique needs to be used the bolt is NOT fully forward. And if the bolt isn't fully forward it's pretty hard to fire off an inadvertent round now isn't it.

Done properly, there isn't a damn thing dangerous about doing this. What this is is another tool in your toolbox. Now if you find yourself suddenly overcome by a bout of retardation then maybe this isn't for those of you with that problem. hahahaha


If I'm a a range, public or not. And I have a jam of some sort that requires this I have two choices.

1. Go home and mortar the rifle in a safe manner to clear the jam.

2 Stay at the range, mortar the rifle in a safe manner, and continue shooting.

Guess which I'm fucking doing.

</div></div>

Without overstating the obvious, the danger lies in pointing the weapon skyward while attempting to clear a jam of unknown nature. 'Be sure of your target and what's beyond it'---yeah in Iraq who gives a shit but stateside an inadvertent discharge could suck big time. I didn't mean to insinuate the rifle would explode or something along those lines, just clarifying that you will not be pointing the rifle in a safe direction when performing a mortaring technique. </div></div>

Before clearing any malfunction the nature of the malfunction should already be known. You don't randomly try remedies. At least I don't.

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Powder burns...This is an accepted technique in clearing a misfeed round, jammed round , ect. in an AR type rifle and also a semi loading shotgun..... have you found a better way? Or know of one? please LMK.... the only other way is to put a loaded weapon in your car and drive....Please LMK,,,Thanks in advance!

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spiralseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder burns...This is an accepted technique in clearing a misfeed round, jammed round , ect. in an AR type rifle and also a semi loading shotgun..... have you found a better way? Or know of one? please LMK.... the only other way is to put a loaded weapon in your car and drive....Please LMK,,,Thanks in advance! </div></div>

See. And that is exactly what the fuck I'm talking about.
There's always some smartass that says that in the air isn't a safe direction because if the rifle fires the round could come down and hit someone.

But like you mentioned what is the alternative? Exactly, putting the rifle in your car with the bolt potentially locked forward with a round in the chamber. Now what direction is it pointed in during the ride home bouncing around in the car. hahaha

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You obviously have no experience with this at all. So how about just not commenting?</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">See. And that is exactly what the fuck I'm talking about.
There's always some smartass that says that in the air isn't a safe direction because if the rifle fires the round could come down and hit someone. </div></div>

You're an asshole. And firing in the air isn't unsafe? On what fucking planet?

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I'm pretty sure a flat tip screwdriver could pry a bolt carrier back if you wanted to be a safety freak about it and keep the rifle pointed at the backstop. I never suggested mortaring was a bad idea. Someone wanted to know what mortaring was, so I explained the concept. I never made the claim that mortaring was a bad idea or an unaccepted practice, rather I was illustrating the potential hazards in performing the technique. But you have made the insinuation that discharging into the air is OK, that I'm a smartass that has no idea wtf I'm talking about. To that I say go fuck yourself, catch a stray bullet one day and tell me its safe to point guns into the sky.

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You obviously have no experience with this at all. So how about just not commenting?</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">See. And that is exactly what the fuck I'm talking about.
There's always some smartass that says that in the air isn't a safe direction because if the rifle fires the round could come down and hit someone. </div></div>

You're an asshole. And firing in the air isn't unsafe? On what fucking planet?
</div></div>

I think what he was trying to say that the muzzle pointed in a safe direction... not that shooting it in the air was safe....we assume risks when shooting weapons..it is the minimizing of those risks that make handling a firearm safe....as I stated before..Motaring,Pogo sticking ...what ever you like is still an accepted method of clearing a jam...as stated in many books and articles....

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty sure a flat tip screwdriver could pry a bolt carrier back if you wanted to be a safety freak about it and keep the rifle pointed at the backstop. I never suggested mortaring was a bad idea. Someone wanted to know what mortaring was, so I explained the concept. I never made the claim that mortaring was a bad idea or an unaccepted practice, rather I was illustrating the potential hazards in performing the technique. But you have made the insinuation that discharging into the air is OK, that I'm a smartass that has no idea wtf I'm talking about. To that I say go fuck yourself, catch a stray bullet one day and tell me its safe to point guns into the sky. </div></div>

Oh..my mistake..I thought you inferred that mortaring was not a good idea...and yes it does have its hazards...

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spiralseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You obviously have no experience with this at all. So how about just not commenting?</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">See. And that is exactly what the fuck I'm talking about.
There's always some smartass that says that in the air isn't a safe direction because if the rifle fires the round could come down and hit someone. </div></div>

You're an asshole. And firing in the air isn't unsafe? On what fucking planet?
</div></div>

I think what he was trying to say that the muzzle pointed in a safe direction... not that shooting it in the air was safe....we assume risks when shooting weapons..it is the minimizing of those risks that make handling a firearm safe....as I stated before..Motaring,Pogo sticking ...what ever you like is still an accepted method of clearing a jam...as stated in many books and articles.... </div></div>

Bingo

 

[spiralseal]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I should have been a lawyer.....

 

[PLeighton]

Re: AR-15 Failure

OMFG...
I can't believe that I'm commenting on this after reading everything posted, some of these remarks are silly...

The AR family has its own idiosyncratic issues.
One of which is that the 5.56 NATO spec has a much higher chamber pressure spec than .223 Rem.
That combined with the shear inertia of the BCG makes this platform prone to popped primers.
In response to this, all military 5.56 NATO ammo uses a crimped primer.

Popped primers cause all kinds of interesting stoppages in an AR.
One of which is what the OP experienced.
These stoppages can be addressed in several ways.
The safest of which is using a tool to pry the bolt carrier to the rear until the obstruction is bent to a point in which it allows free movement of the BCG.
The "Mortar" method is field expedient as well as very effective.
I have actually bent the retaining pin on a stock using this method when I had a primer stuck in the path of the BCG cam pin.

Preventative measures are pretty straight forward.
Only use ammo with crimped primers or ammo with .223 Rem pressures in a critical situation.
The other thing is to invest in a "receiver rug".
They prevent loose primers from getting under the trigger, but do not prevent them from getting lodged in the locking lugs, gas tube, or cam path however.

I hope this information is of use to you.
For those of you crying about "Mortaring",
Grow the fuck up…
Big boy rules...
If you don't know, don't do it!

 

[10wt308]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I appreciate this information. Never had a failure that would require this but I will keep this technique in mind should the need arise.

I do have a question. Would this technique work in a horizontal plane like against a solid tree trunk or pole battering ram style or does gravity add the edge to the success?

Hope I never need this but is good to know.

Thanks

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: AR-15 Failure

A horizontal plane in theory would work fine. It's just harder to do. Part of the usefulness of this is being able to do it right where you stand, no running to find a tree or something.

 

[10wt308]

Re: AR-15 Failure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A horizontal plane in theory would work fine. It's just harder to do. Part of the usefulness of this is being able to do it right where you stand, no running to find a tree or something. </div></div>

Good point.I was thinking about at the range. It would be big time different with the target shooting back! Puts a whole new twist on tap, rack, bang.

Thanks

 

[eracer]

Re: AR-15 Failure

I hear RSO's brains exploding.

 

[KTDLS7]

Re: AR-15 Failure

"Mortaring" has never failed me clearing popped primer jams, double-feeds, and stuck cases. The rifle double-feeds, shooter then thinks "forward assist", jamming everything really tight. Mortar clears every time.

Caution on mortaring: If not a fixed stock, collapse stock completely, and hit the stock heel, not toe. If not, you may end up with a broken stock toe, broken position pin, and possibly a severely injured hand.

BTW, never had a rifle discharge - we use this technique several times on every training day.

Kevin

 

[dixiejarhead]

Re: AR-15 Failure

Another option to mortaring the weapon is to point down range and catch the ch on the bench edge or a wooden pole and hold it there while pushing on the pg. You have to use force though. It will work I've done it dozens of times. Keeps muzzle downrange and keep finger off trigger obviously.

 

[Munson]

Re: AR-15 Failure

We use this method many times with great success and no problems due to some bad ammo that got mixed up in our training ammo. Its either throw out 10K of training ammo, or deal with the problem as it comes up. Mortaring is quick, efficient, and relatively safe. If you dont like it, dont do it. Everyones mileage varies.