I was talking to my local dealer about AR 15's (I've always kind of been a .308 and AK guy) because I want to buy one real soon. I'm starting to really like them the more I handle them and see all the options and capabilities. Evidently this is pretty new to the civilian market (at least that's what I'm told, I am kind of a noob to the AR's) but they have gas piston operated AR 15's. According to him it keeps the chamber and internal parts cleaner and has less recoil. After looking online it seems like they are the new "cutting edge". But I figured I'd ask you guys, the experts. Are they really better, there must be some cons? Are they worth the extra money? Any info would be great, thanks.
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AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
- Thread starter tanda10506
- Start date
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
This is just my 2 cents so take it for what its worth. I have never shot 1 but know guys who have and they seem to like them. I myself have never had the need for one as the internals getting too hot has never been a problem for me. The being cleaner is a plus because as you probably know the AR plateforms 1 drawback for me is the fact that it "shits in its own food bowl" meaning the gas and unburned powder going back to the receiver. However I clean my guns as soon as I get done shooting so thats never really been a big deal for me. The other thing and someone correct me if I'm wrong but most leading AR manufacturers have a gas piston system but they all use propriatary parts meaning if something brakes you have to go to that company to get the parts to fix them. For me thats a big CON as I like being able to go to the many parts suppliers out there and get the part I need to fix my AR and get it up and running. But none of this may matter to you and if you like them than go for it I'm sure if you stick to a repuitable company you should get years of use out of it. Again just my 2 cents.
This is just my 2 cents so take it for what its worth. I have never shot 1 but know guys who have and they seem to like them. I myself have never had the need for one as the internals getting too hot has never been a problem for me. The being cleaner is a plus because as you probably know the AR plateforms 1 drawback for me is the fact that it "shits in its own food bowl" meaning the gas and unburned powder going back to the receiver. However I clean my guns as soon as I get done shooting so thats never really been a big deal for me. The other thing and someone correct me if I'm wrong but most leading AR manufacturers have a gas piston system but they all use propriatary parts meaning if something brakes you have to go to that company to get the parts to fix them. For me thats a big CON as I like being able to go to the many parts suppliers out there and get the part I need to fix my AR and get it up and running. But none of this may matter to you and if you like them than go for it I'm sure if you stick to a repuitable company you should get years of use out of it. Again just my 2 cents.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
I have owned 3 adams Arms pistons and and 1 GMCG, I really like the AA Piston, I still keep one on my 6.8SPC, I run 3 gun with it, AA has also contracted with S&W the new S&W ar piston rifle has a AA piston kit, I have talked and delt with Jason and Jim from AA great guys they also sent me one when I was in Iraq. I have not had any carrier tilt issues I am running the POF carrier Key with roller in it
I have owned 3 adams Arms pistons and and 1 GMCG, I really like the AA Piston, I still keep one on my 6.8SPC, I run 3 gun with it, AA has also contracted with S&W the new S&W ar piston rifle has a AA piston kit, I have talked and delt with Jason and Jim from AA great guys they also sent me one when I was in Iraq. I have not had any carrier tilt issues I am running the POF carrier Key with roller in it
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator j</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is just my 2 cents so take it for what its worth. I have never shot 1 but know guys who have and...</div></div>
Post that start off like this are my favorite!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tanda10506</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was talking to my local dealer about AR 15's...Evidently this is pretty new to the civilian market (at least that's what I'm told, I am kind of a noob to the AR's) but they have gas piston operated AR 15's....After looking online it seems like they are the new "cutting edge"...Are they really better, there must be some cons? Are they worth the extra money? Any info would be great, thanks.</div></div>
What planet have you been on the last couple years? I wouldn't call the piston system new or "cutting edge"at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator j</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is just my 2 cents so take it for what its worth. I have never shot 1 but know guys who have and...</div></div>
Post that start off like this are my favorite!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tanda10506</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was talking to my local dealer about AR 15's...Evidently this is pretty new to the civilian market (at least that's what I'm told, I am kind of a noob to the AR's) but they have gas piston operated AR 15's....After looking online it seems like they are the new "cutting edge"...Are they really better, there must be some cons? Are they worth the extra money? Any info would be great, thanks.</div></div>
What planet have you been on the last couple years? I wouldn't call the piston system new or "cutting edge"at all.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Just wanted him to know that I have no first hand expirience with them but have done some research.
Just wanted him to know that I have no first hand expirience with them but have done some research.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
I agree with your points on parts commonality per internals...just giving you shit about your posts intro
I agree with your points on parts commonality per internals...just giving you shit about your posts intro
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Not a problem doorkicker I knew what you ment. I dont take anything personally.
Not a problem doorkicker I knew what you ment. I dont take anything personally.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Ok here goes. I DO own a gas piston AR. I have an LWRC M6A3 and think it is absolutely the cat's ass. I am a believer in the piston system. It does run cooler and as we know heat is a big factor in wear and tear on weapons. There is less fouling in the receiver/chamber area as well. On a DI system that area will start to get gummed up with carbon dust. And when you couple that with CLP or other lube, it will turn into sludge. Sludge can slow down the bolt movement, and can hinder feeding and extraction. It can also cause failure to fires. Granted, it will take a while for your system to get that dirty, but if your are running and gunning and getting sand or dirt in there as well then it quickly becomes a concern. Cleaning is a hell of a lot easier as well. Now if you are going to have a safe queen or just use this for plinking once a month or even use this for LR shooting, then Direct Impingement is fine. It works just fine. Has for years. But if you are going to shoot the piss out of your rifle then piston is the system for you. Cons? I have to clean my RAS alot I guess. Better than scraping my bolt though. And as far as having to go back to LWRC if something breaks? I spent a little over 2 grand on my rifle. You're damn right I'm only going to send it to LWRC and not void my warranty. Most parts get fixed for free by them, and they do free upgrades as well. Yeah I'll send my rifle in to them every time. However, if I wanted, I could buy parts from brownell's or wherever and throw them in there. But that's like having MAACO paint your Ferrari. As far as it being new? Eh. I mean I guess in the timeline of the AR it is relatively new. Kind of. The technology has been around for years. There have been a few companies that have tried the piston system with varying degrees of success. I think LWRC has one of the best systems out there on a standard AR platform. However, I went with them not just for that, but for their CS, reliability, accuracy, and durability. Yes there are cheaper options, but they checked all the boxes and then some. And that, gentlemen, is my 2 cents.
Ok here goes. I DO own a gas piston AR. I have an LWRC M6A3 and think it is absolutely the cat's ass. I am a believer in the piston system. It does run cooler and as we know heat is a big factor in wear and tear on weapons. There is less fouling in the receiver/chamber area as well. On a DI system that area will start to get gummed up with carbon dust. And when you couple that with CLP or other lube, it will turn into sludge. Sludge can slow down the bolt movement, and can hinder feeding and extraction. It can also cause failure to fires. Granted, it will take a while for your system to get that dirty, but if your are running and gunning and getting sand or dirt in there as well then it quickly becomes a concern. Cleaning is a hell of a lot easier as well. Now if you are going to have a safe queen or just use this for plinking once a month or even use this for LR shooting, then Direct Impingement is fine. It works just fine. Has for years. But if you are going to shoot the piss out of your rifle then piston is the system for you. Cons? I have to clean my RAS alot I guess. Better than scraping my bolt though. And as far as having to go back to LWRC if something breaks? I spent a little over 2 grand on my rifle. You're damn right I'm only going to send it to LWRC and not void my warranty. Most parts get fixed for free by them, and they do free upgrades as well. Yeah I'll send my rifle in to them every time. However, if I wanted, I could buy parts from brownell's or wherever and throw them in there. But that's like having MAACO paint your Ferrari. As far as it being new? Eh. I mean I guess in the timeline of the AR it is relatively new. Kind of. The technology has been around for years. There have been a few companies that have tried the piston system with varying degrees of success. I think LWRC has one of the best systems out there on a standard AR platform. However, I went with them not just for that, but for their CS, reliability, accuracy, and durability. Yes there are cheaper options, but they checked all the boxes and then some. And that, gentlemen, is my 2 cents.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
I own 2 of them.
Piston guns can be broken down into roughly 3 categories
1. Guns that have been designed from the ground up to be a piston operated gun, AK, FN SCAR, Bushmaster ACR.
2. AR Variants that have been tweaked over the years with their own proprietary piston setups. LWRCI, POF, PWS, Addax,
3. Piston conversion Kits. Kits that you modify your current DI gun with a conversion kit. Adam Arms, CCMG, Osprey Defense
With that being said you need to identify your needs and wants. #1 are going to be expensive 2k+ and the parts are going to be proprietary.
#2 Also going to be expensive 2k+ Most of the AR parts will be interchangeable, the piston setup and rails will be proprietary, Both POF and LWRCI get awesome reviews. The LWRCI seems to have better CS.
#3 These are taking the market place by storm. You pretty much take your DI gun and either replace the gas block and add their piston system, or in the Osprey Defense you just remove the gas tube and install their kit with your existing gas block or FSB.
I chose route #3 because of cost and the ability to go back to D.I. If I decided Pistons were not for me.
I used the Adams Arms kit for a conversion I did worked flawless, but I got rid of it, I did not like the look of the Gas block and I prefer a low profile gas block with a rail covering gas block. (preference)
So I tried the Osprey Defense kit (simple drop in design with no small springs etc) . I have close to 3500 rounds through my 2 kits. This is what I have experienced so far. My guns stay cleaner like you cannot believe. After 1000 rounds it looks like I have barely shot it other than the bolt face and chamber that still gets dirty but not as bad. The recoil pulse is different with a piston gun, It might be a tad more, but come on its a 5.56 already.
I have to say I love my new piston setups. Is it a better system that is debatable, from both sides. With piston systems you have more parts when you have more moving parts and springs etc. More shit is going to break... but with that being said. It runs cleaner, cooler so life should increase on other parts. I have never had any issues with my D.I. guns or my Pistons. I just prefer not having so much grime when cleaning and the piston setups do this and they do it well.
If you have any ? feel free to ask.
Osprey under the rail.
I own 2 of them.
Piston guns can be broken down into roughly 3 categories
1. Guns that have been designed from the ground up to be a piston operated gun, AK, FN SCAR, Bushmaster ACR.
2. AR Variants that have been tweaked over the years with their own proprietary piston setups. LWRCI, POF, PWS, Addax,
3. Piston conversion Kits. Kits that you modify your current DI gun with a conversion kit. Adam Arms, CCMG, Osprey Defense
With that being said you need to identify your needs and wants. #1 are going to be expensive 2k+ and the parts are going to be proprietary.
#2 Also going to be expensive 2k+ Most of the AR parts will be interchangeable, the piston setup and rails will be proprietary, Both POF and LWRCI get awesome reviews. The LWRCI seems to have better CS.
#3 These are taking the market place by storm. You pretty much take your DI gun and either replace the gas block and add their piston system, or in the Osprey Defense you just remove the gas tube and install their kit with your existing gas block or FSB.
I chose route #3 because of cost and the ability to go back to D.I. If I decided Pistons were not for me.
I used the Adams Arms kit for a conversion I did worked flawless, but I got rid of it, I did not like the look of the Gas block and I prefer a low profile gas block with a rail covering gas block. (preference)
So I tried the Osprey Defense kit (simple drop in design with no small springs etc) . I have close to 3500 rounds through my 2 kits. This is what I have experienced so far. My guns stay cleaner like you cannot believe. After 1000 rounds it looks like I have barely shot it other than the bolt face and chamber that still gets dirty but not as bad. The recoil pulse is different with a piston gun, It might be a tad more, but come on its a 5.56 already.
I have to say I love my new piston setups. Is it a better system that is debatable, from both sides. With piston systems you have more parts when you have more moving parts and springs etc. More shit is going to break... but with that being said. It runs cleaner, cooler so life should increase on other parts. I have never had any issues with my D.I. guns or my Pistons. I just prefer not having so much grime when cleaning and the piston setups do this and they do it well.
If you have any ? feel free to ask.
Osprey under the rail.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Hey DK give him a little leeway he IS in Cali. So yeah I guess the piston is new out there! lol I'm surprised it isn't on some ban list! RS fly that flag bro! Also a good point you brought up. OP can always by a DI gun and then spend a little extra on a piston kit. If he doesn't like it, sell it on arfcom.
Hey DK give him a little leeway he IS in Cali. So yeah I guess the piston is new out there! lol I'm surprised it isn't on some ban list! RS fly that flag bro! Also a good point you brought up. OP can always by a DI gun and then spend a little extra on a piston kit. If he doesn't like it, sell it on arfcom.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Bigboss,
As soon as I posted the pic I knew I was going to get gigged on the flag. There are actually 2 there folded that my neighbors gave me to dispose of of. I need to get them down to the Legion hall. I think I might do that right now.
Like Big said, Get your self a DI gun for about 600.00 add the piston kit and see what you like better. You can always get close to your money back. As long as you buy smart.
RS
Bigboss,
As soon as I posted the pic I knew I was going to get gigged on the flag. There are actually 2 there folded that my neighbors gave me to dispose of of. I need to get them down to the Legion hall. I think I might do that right now.
Like Big said, Get your self a DI gun for about 600.00 add the piston kit and see what you like better. You can always get close to your money back. As long as you buy smart.
RS
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
The way it sounded to me was that it was pretty new and I don't know much about AR's in general. Anyway, I'm asking mainly because my local gun dealer (it's more of a personal basis, it's not a shop it's a local police officer that runs the business out of his house) has a piston gun that a guy kind of stiffed him on and he's offering it to me for $950 new. Not sure the manafacturer but seems like a good deal.
The way it sounded to me was that it was pretty new and I don't know much about AR's in general. Anyway, I'm asking mainly because my local gun dealer (it's more of a personal basis, it's not a shop it's a local police officer that runs the business out of his house) has a piston gun that a guy kind of stiffed him on and he's offering it to me for $950 new. Not sure the manafacturer but seems like a good deal.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tanda10506</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know much about AR's...he's offering it to me for $950 new. Not sure the manafacturer but seems like a good deal.</div></div>
Seems like a good deal eh...compared to what?
Think maybe you should do a little homework on the gun so you don't look/sound like an idiot or get ripped off?
Find out what the manufacturer, model & specs are and price it out online.
*Common sense*
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tanda10506</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know much about AR's...he's offering it to me for $950 new. Not sure the manafacturer but seems like a good deal.</div></div>
Seems like a good deal eh...compared to what?
Think maybe you should do a little homework on the gun so you don't look/sound like an idiot or get ripped off?
Find out what the manufacturer, model & specs are and price it out online.
*Common sense*
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
*Common sense*
</div></div>
it's not so common anymore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
*Common sense*
</div></div>
it's not so common anymore.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REM700MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
*Common sense*
</div></div>
it's not so common anymore.
</div></div>
Has it ever been common?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REM700MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
*Common sense*
</div></div>
it's not so common anymore.
</div></div>
Has it ever been common?
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
First of all...Sup DK, long time bro. I wish many virgins upon you.
Matter at hand.
I have run the living snot (technical term) out of several AR's from LWRC, POF, Bushy's, Colts, Mutts you name it.
Most if not all just seem to keep on running.
When we run them suppressed however that is (in my opinion) where the piston systems seem to pay their dividends.
We took a standard Bushmaster M4 and an LWRC M6 A2 and ran them in a carbine class for some 1100 rounds each suppressed.
Next class we ran a Colt and POF doing the same.
The LWRC and the POF ran cooler and cleaner as advertised with only one failure that was due to a broken charging handle.
I'll chalk up the broken charging handle to Operator adrenaline and overall abuse (mine).
The Colt and Bushmaster were filthy and at one point had some break free shot in them to get it all "squishy" as T-Bone put it.
Bottom line, they all went bang.
How much do you want to spend?
Is there going to be continual abuse of the weapon where the piston system keeps everything cool and clean?
Are you doing this in a two way scenario?
The questions could continue for quite some time.
Do your homework, ask questions and save all your pennies for your weapon and good optics.
Then buy a ton of ammo and take a class. Then another and another.
First of all...Sup DK, long time bro. I wish many virgins upon you.
Matter at hand.
I have run the living snot (technical term) out of several AR's from LWRC, POF, Bushy's, Colts, Mutts you name it.
Most if not all just seem to keep on running.
When we run them suppressed however that is (in my opinion) where the piston systems seem to pay their dividends.
We took a standard Bushmaster M4 and an LWRC M6 A2 and ran them in a carbine class for some 1100 rounds each suppressed.
Next class we ran a Colt and POF doing the same.
The LWRC and the POF ran cooler and cleaner as advertised with only one failure that was due to a broken charging handle.
I'll chalk up the broken charging handle to Operator adrenaline and overall abuse (mine).
The Colt and Bushmaster were filthy and at one point had some break free shot in them to get it all "squishy" as T-Bone put it.
Bottom line, they all went bang.
How much do you want to spend?
Is there going to be continual abuse of the weapon where the piston system keeps everything cool and clean?
Are you doing this in a two way scenario?
The questions could continue for quite some time.
Do your homework, ask questions and save all your pennies for your weapon and good optics.
Then buy a ton of ammo and take a class. Then another and another.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
No, its just some type of reflection. I had to go and check my self but there is nothing there.
No, its just some type of reflection. I had to go and check my self but there is nothing there.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
Piston is the way to go for suppressed shooting. Seems to stay cleaner than DI for unsuppressed also.
I prefer POF.
-dan
Piston is the way to go for suppressed shooting. Seems to stay cleaner than DI for unsuppressed also.
I prefer POF.
-dan
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
I put an Adams Arms kit on my m4gery and I like it alot. It does keep the guts of the reciever cleaner and cooler and from where I stand thats a good idea. You can always buy a tube/bolt carrier/gas block kit for spare parts and if the piston kit fails or you dont like it your only 1/2 hour away from being back to original setup. Provided your not in a bad spot or something like that. I figure if all the big boys are going to it "POF,LWRC,LMT,S&W" then it has to have some merit of being an engineering upgrade to the AR platform. That dont mean that the DI setup is no good, but Im sure that the first wheel that the cave man carved out didnt roll as good as the third or fourth one, once he found out that rounder is better.
I put an Adams Arms kit on my m4gery and I like it alot. It does keep the guts of the reciever cleaner and cooler and from where I stand thats a good idea. You can always buy a tube/bolt carrier/gas block kit for spare parts and if the piston kit fails or you dont like it your only 1/2 hour away from being back to original setup. Provided your not in a bad spot or something like that. I figure if all the big boys are going to it "POF,LWRC,LMT,S&W" then it has to have some merit of being an engineering upgrade to the AR platform. That dont mean that the DI setup is no good, but Im sure that the first wheel that the cave man carved out didnt roll as good as the third or fourth one, once he found out that rounder is better.
Re: AR 15 Gas/Gas Piston
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Piston is the way to go for suppressed shooting. Seems to stay cleaner than DI for unsuppressed also.
I prefer POF.
-dan </div></div>
Bottom line is thru all the research I have done on this subject the only way to go with a piston is to buy a piston rifle not add a piston onto an already basic AR. If I were to go piston the two best I have found were LMT and POF. If you want DI with a suppressed rifle then add an adjustable gas block. I think piston is better for the shorty rifles but besides that there is no needed use for them. Unless you are going to be in full on battle all the time the DI will work fine. The main reason everyone is jumping on the piston band waggon is becouse the mind set of the AK being the greatest gun of all time. I like the DI fine but have shot and used many nice piston rifles also, none of which were retro kits. I have heard that osprey kits are the better after market ones.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Piston is the way to go for suppressed shooting. Seems to stay cleaner than DI for unsuppressed also.
I prefer POF.
-dan </div></div>
Bottom line is thru all the research I have done on this subject the only way to go with a piston is to buy a piston rifle not add a piston onto an already basic AR. If I were to go piston the two best I have found were LMT and POF. If you want DI with a suppressed rifle then add an adjustable gas block. I think piston is better for the shorty rifles but besides that there is no needed use for them. Unless you are going to be in full on battle all the time the DI will work fine. The main reason everyone is jumping on the piston band waggon is becouse the mind set of the AK being the greatest gun of all time. I like the DI fine but have shot and used many nice piston rifles also, none of which were retro kits. I have heard that osprey kits are the better after market ones.
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