AR-15 Ranking

[Smokeshot]

I have enough time to save up for a "high-end" AR before the IL AWB gets overturned. Can't decide on which one but here's a list based on my personal ranking:

1. KAC SR-15
2. LMT MARS-L
3. JP-15 Professional
4. LaRue PredatOBR
5. DDM4 V9

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to get into custom build bc I do not have the space or resources to work on it (open to suggestions as most of you here are very experienced).

 

[Nik H]

I own #1, 3 and 4. All of them are amazing to shoot.

 

[1911hombre]

KAC= MASTER RACE.

 

[RTH1800]

Not sure you are going to find an SR15 other than on the secondary market.
I like my KAC guns but not sure they are worth the extra cost.
You might reach out to @bigjake83 and see what he would build for you. Will not have the resale value but would be as good as anything built.

Good luck with your search.

 

[J-Ham]

I have owned 1 & 3, shot 2 & 4... Obviously the good news is I don't think you can go wrong with a list like that. Personally I still own a KAC, but I think the LMT is arguably the best firearm on the list. I agree with @RTH1800, I'm not sure the KAC is worth today's prices.

Also, I've built probably a dozen AR's over the years, just for myself & friends, I don't think I'll build another one for me. If someone wants me to put the parts together, fine, but it's pretty depressing to put $3k into a rifle that's only worth $1k after assembly... I encourage everyone to just buy now, unless you have some REAL specific requirement that can't be purchased.

 

[NC1426]

I’m thinking about the same list.

I have a JP in 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. I can’t imagine a better gas gun.

Have you thought about a Scar?

 

[Smokeshot]

I’m thinking about the same list.

I have a JP in 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. I can’t imagine a better gas gun.

Have you thought about a Scar?

I did. Seen a couple on PX here (pretty good deals). Do you have the JP LRP-07?

 

[1911hombre]

If you “think about” a SCAR I would encourage you to “think again”. Also, hope and pray you never have trouble with it (LOL) because FN has the worst CS on the planet IMO.

 

[Smokeshot]

If you “think about” a SCAR I would encourage you to “think again”. Also, hope and pray you never have trouble with it (LOL) because FN has the worst CS on the planet IMO.

My list had around 10 to 15 items at first. Scar was one of them and I removed it while shortening it down.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

If you “think about” a SCAR I would encourage you to “think again”. Also, hope and pray you never have trouble with it (LOL) because FN has the worst CS on the planet IMO.

Beretta USA scoffs at the FN customer service. They aren't even in the same weight class. FN couldn't carry Beretta's lunch pail.

 

[ELCO82]

I have number one, number two, number three, and number five on that list. Really not a bad order that you have it in. I don't know if my knight's Armament is that much better than my LMT but it is better. There are small differences in all these things that are cumulative improvements in my opinion. That's what I like about the knights, it has a lot of minor improvements that equal one really great AR. But I also have 4 different LMT's and only 1 knight's armament, so that should tell you if I think it's that much better . But the others are all really really good as well.

-Edited to correct my list.

 

[NC1426]

I have the LRI-20. Smooth shooting, super precise, great trigger. Never shot a KAC…but I don’t see how it could be better unless they use some of the components or ones that are similar that JP uses.

I’ll probably get the AR15 version eventually.

 

[ut755ln]

I have enough time to save up for a "high-end" AR before the IL AWB gets overturned. Can't decide on which one but here's a list based on my personal ranking:

1. KAC SR-15
2. LMT MARS-L
3. JP-15 Professional
4. LaRue PredatOBR
5. DDM4 V9

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to get into custom build bc I do not have the space or resources to work on it (open to suggestions as most of you here are very experienced).

If you want a traditional AR without a lot of gun manufacturer specific parts, I would say Geissele and to be exact the URG-I.
If you want a competition rifle, like for two gun or three gun I would lean towards JP but there are other choices.
If you want a sub 2k AR that is very well built and reliable, I would say BCM or SOLGW.
If you were wanting really high spec rifles with military pedigrees, I would go KAC, HK and LMT.
If you want a really accurate gas gun, I would search this web site and do a build it yourself rifle.
Other high end rifles not mentioned that I like ADM, Radian, Hodge, V-Seven maybe LWRC.
There are also quite a few collectible rifles that are pretty great from Colt, FN and others. You need to understand roll marks and manufacturing times with these rifles.

Just so that you are aware, I have bias. I personally prefer short stroke piston ARs so my favorites are LMT and HK. Both of them have proprietary things about them that can be problematic. I would throw KAC and LWRC into this category as well (manufacturer proprietary stuff).

I am not a fan of DD, I think they are over priced versus what you get. The rifles function fine, just kind of expensive and I have a strong dislike for their furniture. I like the LaRue stuff in large frame better than his small frame.

 

[LuckyDuck]

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you listed. Curious if you own/have experience with a standard production AR though (along the lines of Colt, Springfield, etc)?

The reason that I ask, is while the rifles you may be eyeing up are considered to be "upper/top-tier", the difference in what you're paying for may not be as evident as you're possibly anticipating. Not saying that it isn't worth the extra money to you by any means but rather just suggesting that without having an established benchmark it may later factor in your perception/enjoyment of the new rifle is all.

It sounds like you might have a little bit of time on your hands before you're ready to make the purchase so I'd just recommend that in addition to using the time to set the funds aside, the more time you can spend behind your standard production models simultaneously will likely reveal your preferences and help you pick which model from the list best addresses those preferences and ensure you get the best rifle for your needs is all.

-LD

 

[Smokeshot]

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you listed. Curious if you own/have experience with a standard production AR though (along the lines of Colt, Springfield, etc)?

The reason that I ask, is while the rifles you may be eyeing up are considered to be "upper/top-tier", the difference in what you're paying for may not be as evident as you're possibly anticipating. Not saying that it isn't worth the extra money to you by any means but rather just suggesting that without having an established benchmark it may later factor in your perception/enjoyment of the new rifle is all.

It sounds like you might have a little bit of time on your hands before you're ready to make the purchase so I'd just recommend that in addition to using the time to set the funds aside, the more time you can spend behind your standard production models simultaneously will likely reveal your preferences and help you pick which model from the list best addresses those preferences and ensure you get the best rifle for your needs is all.

-LD

I used to have a custom build (Aero lower/BCM upper) but I sold it to a buddy (regretting it now). Since I can’t buy anything until this ban in IL is overturned, I decided that saving up as long as it takes will probably get me a high-end rifle.

 

[LuckyDuck]

The post from @ut755ln above ^^ is exactly what I was trying to suggest with establishing a baseline of preferences and completely agree that Geissele may fit in nicely with the list of other options. But a bit of experience goes a long way. If you have access to a rifle with an adjustable gas block, another relatively inexpensive thing to play with (just to get the feel of it) is a slightly to heavily over gassed gun (I don't see that element recommended often on the forums but once you experience a bit of the extreme end of the spectrum of gas in the face, I'd wager you'll be much more aware/perceptive of noticing those differences later when they're dialed back within otherwise "normal" operating ranges).

 

[R_A_W]

DD
The rifles function fine

mmmmm not so sure about those DD5s

Since I can’t buy anything until this ban in IL is overturned

you can't buy parts or you don't want to build? I'm unfamiliar w/ the ban

 

[LuckyDuck]

I used to have a custom build (Aero lower/BCM upper) but I sold it to a buddy (regretting it now). Since I can’t buy anything until this ban in IL is overturned, I decided that saving up as long as it takes will probably get me a high-end rifle.

Ah ok, gtg then, you're ahead of the power curve. Wasn't trying to insult you by any means, just wanted to establish a baseline on where you're coming from into this was all. As I mentioned, I really don't think you can go wrong with your choices as it'll largely come down to minor personal preferences as being the difference.

Also I wouldn't rule out asking in the Semi-Auto forum here- lots of SH members cruise both there and the Armory pages here but just don't want you to miss out on getting the right person's attention that may be able to elaborate some differences important to you in case they are watching that page instead of this.

-LD

 

[waveslayer]

The new DMR by Steyr looks interesting, once it's released to the US market. It could be a while.

No love for a RRA? I have 3 and they shoot sub MOA all day long, with almost any ammo I run in them. Not crazy expensive, but shoot very well, does everything I need it to do. It's no LMT, but for the price, it's very hard for me not to mention it to you

 

[Smokeshot]

you can't buy parts or you don't want to build? I'm unfamiliar w/ the ban

There’s no clarity in the law’s verbiage. FFLs are scared because non-lower parts are getting flagged too. So, they’re not doing any transfers or sales related to ARs.

 

[Smokeshot]

The new DMR by Steyr looks interesting, once it's released to the US market. It could be a while.

No love for a RRA? I have 3 and they shoot sub MOA all day long, with almost any ammo I run in them. Not crazy expensive, but shoot very well, does everything I need it to do. It's no LMT, but for the price, it's very hard for me not to mention it to you

Nothing against RRA as I’ve never shot one. I have the opportunity to continue saving until this ban gets overturned. So, I’d like to obtain a top tier rifle which I’ll keep until I die or am no longer able to shoot. I’ll definitely look into them too.

 

[Smokeshot]

Ah ok, gtg then, you're ahead of the power curve. Wasn't trying to insult you by any means, just wanted to establish a baseline on where you're coming from into this was all. As I mentioned, I really don't think you can go wrong with your choices as it'll largely come down to minor personal preferences as being the difference.

Also I wouldn't rule out asking in the Semi-Auto forum here- lots of SH members cruise both there and the Armory pages here but just don't want you to miss out on getting the right person's attention that may be able to elaborate some differences important to you in case they are watching that page instead of this.

-LD

You’re fine. I didn’t take it as an insult because I appreciate any and all the advice I can get. Thank you.

 

[chevy_man]

I have "built" ARs with about 3 tools at the kitchen counter. So let's not pretend you don't have space to play with adult Lego bricks.

Let's just come out and say "I want a Gucci AR because I now realize it needs to work and be nice at the same time."


Now that we have that out of the way, let's ask the questions that are important:

What do you want out of it?

What are you going to do with it?

If you just want a reliable gun grab whatever you can find first. I'd personally avoid larue even though I do have a bunch of his triggers. He's just stuck in the past.
I'd also read customer service reviews. If it's your one and only forever and ever this may be important later.

If you're just here for confirmation on your choices anything on your list will work just fine. But the only correct answer is to buy 3 or 4 of them to make sure.

 

[mrtoyz]

I have enough time to save up for a "high-end" AR before the IL AWB gets overturned. Can't decide on which one but here's a list based on my personal ranking:

1. KAC SR-15
2. LMT MARS-L
3. JP-15 Professional
4. LaRue PredatOBR
5. DDM4 V9

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to get into custom build bc I do not have the space or resources to work on it (open to suggestions as most of you here are very experienced).

I’d remove Larue and DD. Replace with ADM and PWS

 

[Aftermath]

Radian

 

[mrtoyz]

Oh I forgot to add Seekins dollar for dollar is probably the best bang for your buck. Likely more accurate as well.

 

[dms416]

I have enough time to save up for a "high-end" AR before the IL AWB gets overturned.

Oh yeah, TONS of time

 

[roosterpig]

I’d say keep saving and when the time comes to buy, just grab the one you WANT and enjoy it. I suffer from paralysis by analysis and always just end up with whatever I wanted in the first place.

Hope your restrictions get uplifted soon.

 

[powerspc]

If you “think about” a SCAR I would encourage you to “think again”. Also, hope and pray you never have trouble with it (LOL) because FN has the worst CS on the planet IMO.

SCAR's are great rifles. But second on the CS clusterfuck. I waited 2-1/2 years (not a typo). Two. And one-half years, to get a bolt replaced.

P.s. Original bolt was not a failure, it rolled off the deck of a boat and was lost at sea (true story!).

 

[ut755ln]

mmmmm not so sure about those DD5s

I was referencing the rifle he mentioned, I had to google DD5

 

[Smokeshot]

Oh yeah, TONS of time

I guess I can save up for sights, flashlight, heck even a laser too.

 

[dms416]

There’s no clarity in the law’s verbiage. FFLs are scared because non-lower parts are getting flagged too. So, they’re not doing any transfers or sales related to ARs.

Being in IL, even IF/when it gets overturned in our painfully slow process, I would recommend sticking with something that will use "spec" AR parts and having to deal with niche' bullshit because so long as Chicago drives the train, the D-Gov will be always push for this crap and the vendor thing will be a problem.

This means:
- LMT barrels/MRP barrel conversions
- KAC bolt/barrels/gas
- HK bullshit (lest you go DEEP and buy a real 416 upper and spare bolts and pistons)
- Proprietary ARish adjacent stuff like the SCAR

 

[Waco Kid]

Midweight CM4 Complete Rifle with Hammer Forged Barrel- Standard Specs (No options)

Centurion's Midweight CM4 Rifle is specifically engineered as a lightweight, practical, durable weapon with a long life.

centurionarms.com

Give them a look, heard good things. They seem to fly under the radar a little vs BCM, Geiselle etc. but those with experience say they’re damn good!

 

[houndog]

I tend to buy my uppers and build my lowers for a couple of reasons. First, I shoot left handed, so I want certain things to be ambidextrous - primarily the safety and charging handle. Second, I find the triggers on even some of the more expensive guns (DD, LMT) to be unacceptable so I'm going to swap in a Geissele. Third, I have a particular stock I prefer and tend to play with springs and buffer weights since I shoot suppressed. Fourth, even putting aside that I'm going to replace a bunch of parts on my lower, I find this approach saves me money.

Having said that, I have experience with several of the uppers on your list - KAC (although it's a 300 BO upper), LaRue, DD, and LMT. All are solid and reliable options, so your choice should ultimately come down to what you prioritize. If parts availability is an issue you might want to exclude KAC (and maybe LMT). If ability to swap out barrels and change calibers is a feature you like (and I do think it's worthwhile) it's tough to beat LMT. If accuracy is a top priority I've had good luck with LaRue (although I also second the poster who praised the somewhat outdated and out of favor Rock River Arms). I have a stainless National Match upper that shoots lights out. If you just want a solid hard use rifle that's also a solid value I'd go with Daniel Defense, BCM or Sons of Liberty Gun Works. Not sure why some posters are down on DD - they make rock solid (although heavy) rails and excellent barrels, although they can be over-gassed. Finally, I don't have any experience with Geissele uppers or rifles, but I agree that they have some great upgrades over a conventional AR and look to be a good value.

Finally, you might want to think about barrel length. If you build your own lower you can install a pistol brace rather than a stock ( I assume this is true in IL as well) and go with something shorter than a 16" barrel of 14.5" with a P&W. Personally, I am currently very high on 11.5" and 12.5" barrels as they are a good compromise between being short and maneuverable without giving up too much on velocity and dwell time. Of course, I shoot mostly suppressed which is another reason to like the shorter barrels and I assume suppressors are a no go in IL.

 

[357Max]

I'd add Ridgeline defense to your list of factory built. Factory specs are great and receiver set is solid.

 

[Smokeshot]

I tend to buy my uppers and build my lowers for a couple of reasons. First, I shoot left handed, so I want certain things to be ambidextrous - primarily the safety and charging handle. Second, I find the triggers on even some of the more expensive guns (DD, LMT) to be unacceptable so I'm going to swap in a Geissele. Third, I have a particular stock I prefer and tend to play with springs and buffer weights since I shoot suppressed. Fourth, even putting aside that I'm going to replace a bunch of parts on my lower, I find this approach saves me money.

Having said that, I have experience with several of the uppers on your list - KAC (although it's a 300 BO upper), LaRue, DD, and LMT. All are solid and reliable options, so your choice should ultimately come down to what you prioritize. If parts availability is an issue you might want to exclude KAC (and maybe LMT). If ability to swap out barrels and change calibers is a feature you like (and I do think it's worthwhile) it's tough to beat LMT. If accuracy is a top priority I've had good luck with LaRue (although I also second the poster who praised the somewhat outdated and out of favor Rock River Arms). I have a stainless National Match upper that shoots lights out. If you just want a solid hard use rifle that's also a solid value I'd go with Daniel Defense, BCM or Sons of Liberty Gun Works. Not sure why some posters are down on DD - they make rock solid (although heavy) rails and excellent barrels, although they can be over-gassed. Finally, I don't have any experience with Geissele uppers or rifles, but I agree that they have some great upgrades over a conventional AR and look to be a good value.

Finally, you might want to think about barrel length. If you build your own lower you can install a pistol brace rather than a stock ( I assume this is true in IL as well) and go with something shorter than a 16" barrel of 14.5" with a P&W. Personally, I am currently very high on 11.5" and 12.5" barrels as they are a good compromise between being short and maneuverable without giving up too much on velocity and dwell time. Of course, I shoot mostly suppressed which is another reason to like the shorter barrels and I assume suppressors are a no go in IL.

Appreciate your advice and yes, cans too, are illegal in this God forsaken state.

 

[brianf]

Devgru still use noveske for a reason

 

[Rob01]

Seekins Precision.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Lmt if you want barrel swaps. It's nice being able to have whateveryou want and only changethe barrel in 10 minutes. D. Wilson offers conversions for any off the shelf ar10 barrel you buy so I don't consider it truly proprietary like some of Sigs BS.

If not and you know exactly what you want and no plans to change....go Seekins.

 

[mark5pt56]

I have enough time to save up for a "high-end" AR before the IL AWB gets overturned. Can't decide on which one but here's a list based on my personal ranking:

1. KAC SR-15
2. LMT MARS-L
3. JP-15 Professional
4. LaRue PredatOBR
5. DDM4 V9

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to get into custom build bc I do not have the space or resources to work on it (open to suggestions as most of you here are very experienced).

Had 4 different LMT//MRP/MWS in the past, nice guns but didn't want to be stuck to a proprietary barrel or have to have one made by one or two folks that did it. Multiple DD guns, in my Opinion, one of the best for money spent. Plenty of research and development, outstanding quality and control from my experiences, they will stand behind their product. V9 if you want 1913, V7 if MLOK.
No experience with the KAC, only you can answer the question of is it worth the extra coin? From my point of view, I can afford them, just not worth it to me, plus, I'm happy with stubby.

I kind of "bought into the quick change barrel" on the LMT, then I thought-this is fucking stupid, change barrel, switch optics or rezero, etc. etc. Next thing I know I have several complete guns and realized it made zero sense to me after all.

The Centurion guns are solid

 

[ut755ln]

Devgru still use noveske for a reason

What Noveske do they actively use?

 

[brianf]

What Noveske do they actively use?

They aren’t like regular infantry

They have what ever gear/ accessories etc they want.

But upper and lowers are noveske

 

[roostercogburn98]

What Noveske do they actively use?

Probably a pimped out version of the Gen 3 shorty 10.5? Just a guess

 

[CK1.0]

Having owned a couple of KACs, and a couple of JPs, I'd say they are both solid rifles... but it's arguable to say that they're really anything special.

IMHO one isn't getting anything beyond name cache bragging rights and resale value with the KACs, and in almost every way they're just another AR (besides what it says on the side), just at roughly ~3x the cost versus most any other well-built AR. Operator-wannabee types love them due to their exclusivity and perceived "elite-ness" (and maybe so they can look down their noses at other guys' guns of lesser provenance), but in the end, they're fairly vanilla, and will still need a decent trigger and maybe more if it's performance and not bragging rights you seek.

The JPs are a little bit of a different animal in that they do come with some unique, tricked-out, go-fast stuff right out of the box that you might not find any run-of-the-mill AR (like the SCS and roller trigger). But, if you're like most of us, know you will be paying a pretty penny for a rifle that comes with a bunch of junk furniture that you'll probably be pulling off, throwing in the trash, and replacing, and their handguards are sort of a love/hate thing (though I haven't actually met anyone who comes down on the love side of things yet lol).

Having said all that, and with me mostly being over ARs in general these days... I do kinda want an LMT (or at least one of their MRP uppers)... the legit monolithic upper/rail/handguard functionally makes a lot of sense and has some inherent benefits that no one else offers, and damn they're sexy.

 

[AllenOne1]

You left off the Barrett REC7

 

[ggmanning]

My main AR is an LMT MRP CQB. I have also had very good service and accuracy from PWS...lots of proprietary parts though. The gun I shoot the most though is a PRI MK12 Mod O.

 

[1911hombre]

IMHO one isn't getting anything beyond name cache bragging rights and resale value with the KACs, and in almost every way they're just another AR (besides what it says on the side), just at roughly ~3x the cost versus most any other well-built AR. Operator-wannabee types love them due to their exclusivity and perceived "elite-ness" (and maybe so they can look down their noses at other guys' guns of lesser provenance), but in the end, they're fairly vanilla, and will still need a decent trigger and maybe more if it's performance and not bragging rights you seek.

I totally disagree. You get, among other things, a unique gas system that I think is unsurpassed. Bolts that don't break. A great 2-stage trigger. The URX4 rail is unique, STRONG, and oh so comfy. And at least in my experience, exceptional accuracy. Both my SR15's shoot LC M193 at 1 MOA at 100 yards with my broke down ass behind the trigger. All while ejecting at 4:00 into a small pile. Screw a KAC PRT suppressor on and brass goes in same small pile. If that's vanilla, I'll take a big bowl of it.

 

[clcustom1911]

I gots KAC and LMT. You can't go wrong with anything on your list. MARS-L is definitely more available. I love the ambi functions on the MARS-L. The KAC trigger is better than the MARS-L, but it's splitting hairs. Both run everything suppressed and unsuppressed.

 

[Smokeshot]

You left off the Barrett REC7

It’s definitely in the back of my mind. If I find a good deal on that before the others, I’ll definitely go for it.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I have owned multiples of just about every AR made. Have been building and repairing them for 25 years and the count is into the high hundreds if not thousands. I would either buy a factory gun or piece together with 100% factory parts like you can with BCM, LMT and Geissele.

It depends what you want the gun to do. The platform has been figured out so any factory gun today should run from any of the quality manufactures. Do you want to focus on precision? duty cycle? Run in any environment? Suppressed? What length? Are you going to scope it? Ect ect ect.

For a new off the shelf gun you can actually buy today, I don't think there is a better gun than the Geissele Super Duties at $2k or less. Even if you could find a Sr15, you are paying 100 more% for some very small differences that to most users...won't matter. I still believe the SR15 is the Apex AR, but it now has a lot more competition and price/availability makes it easy to disregard as an option.

KAC
GEISSELE
LMT
BCM / DD / Colt / Seekins / JP / PRI / Noveske


That's is how I would order them for a fighting gun. Depending on what you want to do, the order could change. I don't buy into the budget brands ( aero, rra, s&w, Springfield, ect) nor the FAD brands like (SOLGW, Q, ect). The poors and ignorant can have that shit.

Just buy a super duty and use the price difference between the KAC to add an aimpoint and a suppressor. You will come out way ahead.