AR Lube?

[Yondering]

I used to use Benelli MF-82 on AR's. It was obviously intended for inertia shotguns but is light weight and worked perfect on my AR's. Unfortunately it only ships with Benelli shotguns & is not available in the US.

When I started getting low I went hunting for the best replacement. I tried a few and Hoppe's Elite Black is my second favorite.

My favorite hands down by far & the best damn gun oil no one's ever heard of is Polydyn 2A. It is a polymer based lubricant (not CLP).
Polydyn is a Veteran owned company & it's 100% American made in Houston TX.

View attachment 7595041

While searching for the best Gun lubes I remembered Polydyn and thought well hell I wish they made one. I was very happy to find out they do.
They absolutely suck at marketing it though.

I have been running it for a while now on AR's, bolt guns, & pistol slides. It has not disappointed.

I am very familiar with Polydyn products & used them extensively through the 90's & early 2000's, mainly their dry film bearing coatings & even 1 fully coated EAA witness that ran slick as shit with zero lube. The bearing coatings were used on Marine race, Sprint car, Super late models etc.

Anyone remember the IROC series? Ever remember one breaking during a race? I'm sure it must have happened, but I don't remember a failure.
The IROC cars were all identically prepared & all were fully treated with Polydyn's coatings and additive lubricants.

Only place I know of to purchase it is Amazon.

Amazon.com

The Polydyn stuff sounds neat.

BUT!

All these "torture test" videos comparing different gun oils at high heat are ridiculous. I couldn't care less if one oil is only good to 300* and another is good to 800* (or whatever). It just doesn't matter, and it does NOT mean that the higher temp oil is better for our uses.

We're talking about lubrication inside an AR receiver here; if it reaches even 200* it's already causing serious burns on your hands. Think about that for a second; you're not going to keep shooting a rifle at temps that literally can cook your hands and face, and that's still way lower temperature than reviews like that video. So why should we care if one oil cooks off faster at temperatures far higher than the rifle will ever see?
We're not trying to lubricate the muzzle of a machine gun barrel or body of a suppressor; we're lubricating parts that rarely (if ever) get too hot to touch.

Way too many videos get posted comparing oils in various environments that have nothing at all to do with the purpose of the oil, and lots of people believe them like it means something. People need to start thinking for themselves more, about this stuff and a lot of other things. Sorry for the rant, but idiot reviews and snake-oil advertising rub me the wrong way.

Show me videos that test wear at room temperature, or thickening in cold temperatures - then we can actually talk about something useful.

 

[Patience0830]

Because it gummed up???

From their site: EWL withstands extreme temperature changes (-100°F to +1250°F)

Ive never had an issue with it down to single digits in comps on my AR. You must be in a different kind of cold than me...

maybe you just needed to add some more

Maybe the tolerances are different in my rifle. Enough slip was on the f/p that it was slowed and failure to launch was the result. Published specs from Mfrs aren't always real world result.

 

[308pirate]

 

[Texasflyer]

So atf fluid? Get that nice gear oil stink goin on? And using atf as power steering fluid? The only thing i have ever used atf for other than in a transmission is putting a quart in a gas tank to remove water in a fuel system.

 

[fdkay]

Lots of decent oils can work in an AR, as long as you keep it wet.

In my environment though I have zero use for any dry lube or Frog Lube (so glad that fad has mostly gone away!); dry lube is a great way to drastically shorten the life of your rifle and Frog Lube is a great way to gum up the works, especially when temperatures drop a little.

WD40 is a great cleaning agent and washes out carbon and gunk better than brake cleaner or other low flash point solvents, but it's not a lube. I spray it in the upper, soak for a minute, then blow it out with compressed air. Hit it with brake cleaner after that if you want, or just re-lube and you're good to go. The key is to not leave any WD40 in the gun because it'll eventually gum up.

Dry film lube is not the "best", however, in my case, where a rifle might sit unused for months at a time, having a lubricant that doesn't run and doesn't evaporate, outweighs the inferior protection that it does afford. Oil is a liquid, all liquids seek the lowest gravitational point and will pool there.
FWIW, if I am going to the range and know I'll be putting more than a couple of mags through it, I always lube with an oil. I just use the dry film so that I know there is always a lube there when needed.
Apparently, the Gov did a study during the Vietnam war, many folks had gone to dri-slide and found it worked quite well, however, the .gov declared that VVL-800 was a better solution, that just so happened to be in the supply system. It is a general purpose, lubricating, water-displacing oil. I'm a bit skeptical, as the military and .gov refuse to admit when they are wrong and will willfully lie to cover up the fact that they were wrong.
When I was still in, vvl-800 was still listed as limited standard and could be used when CLP wasn't available.
I was no fan of CLP either, but it was a decent lube (if it had the PTFE in it).

 

[fdkay]

So atf fluid? Get that nice gear oil stink goin on? And using atf as power steering fluid? The only thing i have ever used atf for other than in a transmission is putting a quart in a gas tank to remove water in a fuel system.

The base oil in MOST atf's is mineral oil.
Ballistol is also mineral oil based.

 

[357Max]

All these "torture test" videos comparing different gun oils at high heat are ridiculous. I couldn't care less if one oil is only good to 300* and another is good to 800* (or whatever). It just doesn't matter, and it does NOT mean that the higher temp oil is better for our uses.

We're talking about lubrication inside an AR receiver here; if it reaches even 200* it's already causing serious burns on your hands. Think about that for a second; you're not going to keep shooting a rifle at temps that literally can cook your hands and face, and that's still way lower temperature than reviews like that video. So why should we care if one oil cooks off faster at temperatures far higher than the rifle will ever see?
We're not trying to lubricate the muzzle of a machine gun barrel or body of a suppressor; we're lubricating parts that rarely (if ever) get too hot to touch.

Way too many videos get posted comparing oils in various environments that have nothing at all to do with the purpose of the oil, and lots of people believe them like it means something. People need to start thinking for themselves more, about this stuff and a lot of other things. Sorry for the rant, but idiot reviews and snake-oil advertising rub me the wrong way.

Show me videos that test wear at room temperature, or thickening in cold temperatures - then we can actually talk about something useful.

I agree with your quote above. The guy pimping this stuff is doing a shit job and a disservice to Polymer Dynamics.

I gritted my teeth even including the video. The only thing useful about that video is that it shows the 2A oil is not just the same old ingredients dumped in a bottle with some fancy label slapped on.

The snake oil salesman BS rubs me the wrong way as well & I'd have passed based on that had I not had experience with Polymer Dynamics products.

This stuff is different. The Polymer technology behind it is solid and very well proven in the automotive race industry.

I've only been using it for a few months and only down to the mid 30's temp wise on AR platforms, but it has worked very well.

It's a little thicker then Hoppe's Elite, but the viscosity does not seem to be temperature sensitive. It's odorless, colorless, and stays where you put it noticeably better then anything else I've tried.

Give it a try before judging it based on the snake oil pimp!

 

[GONE BAD]

I've been using Cherry Balmz (Black Rifle) for two years now. Use it on any gun that has sliding parts, as in all my auto loaders and bolt guns.

It absolutely stays on the parts it is applied to and thats exactly what I want. Blowback from auto loaders is the real culprit and CB works.

When I ordered it I got the 5 bottle mix and match and just ordered 5 bottles of the black Rifle.

The big plus is the amount you DON'T use. This is evident in the size of the bottle, no bigger than a small bottle of model paint.
After two years I only have 1 bottle left because I had to give away 3 to friends and family.

 

[Yondering]

I agree with your quote above. The guy pimping this stuff is doing a shit job and a disservice to Polymer Dynamics.

I gritted my teeth even including the video. The only thing useful about that video is that it shows the 2A oil is not just the same old ingredients dumped in a bottle with some fancy label slapped on.

The snake oil salesman BS rubs me the wrong way as well & I'd have passed based on that had I not had experience with Polymer Dynamics products.

This stuff is different. The Polymer technology behind it is solid and very well proven in the automotive race industry.

I've only been using it for a few months and only down to the mid 30's temp wise on AR platforms, but it has worked very well.

It's a little thicker then Hoppe's Elite, but the viscosity does not seem to be temperature sensitive. It's odorless, colorless, and stays where you put it noticeably better then anything else I've tried.

Give it a try before judging it based on the snake oil pimp!

Yeah I’ll try it; got some in my Amazon cart now.

 

[srt-4_uk]

So atf fluid? Get that nice gear oil stink goin on? And using atf as power steering fluid? The only thing i have ever used atf for other than in a transmission is putting a quart in a gas tank to remove water in a fuel system.

50/50 mix of ATF and acetone works better than any PB Blaster or Liquid wrench to get stuck bolts loose. Has nothing to do with an AR but great around the garage.

 

[Asiparks]

The Polydyn stuff sounds neat.

BUT!

All these "torture test" videos comparing different gun oils at high heat are ridiculous. I couldn't care less if one oil is only good to 300* and another is good to 800* (or whatever). It just doesn't matter, and it does NOT mean that the higher temp oil is better for our uses.

We're talking about lubrication inside an AR receiver here; if it reaches even 200* it's already causing serious burns on your hands. Think about that for a second; you're not going to keep shooting a rifle at temps that literally can cook your hands and face, and that's still way lower temperature than reviews like that video. So why should we care if one oil cooks off faster at temperatures far higher than the rifle will ever see?
We're not trying to lubricate the muzzle of a machine gun barrel or body of a suppressor; we're lubricating parts that rarely (if ever) get too hot to touch.

Way too many videos get posted comparing oils in various environments that have nothing at all to do with the purpose of the oil, and lots of people believe them like it means something. People need to start thinking for themselves more, about this stuff and a lot of other things. Sorry for the rant, but idiot reviews and snake-oil advertising rub me the wrong way.

Show me videos that test wear at room temperature, or thickening in cold temperatures - then we can actually talk about something useful.

Whilst not disagreeing in principle, I'm fairly certain that because it not's burning your fingers on the outside, doesn't mean that some of the moving parts inside aren't experiencing rather hotter temperatures. If you don't believe this, reroute your gas tube out through your hand guard, or hold onto a bolt after a couple of mag dumps.
Selling something that's over engineered just makes more sense than "well, it'll probably hold up..."
I'll use Mobil1 or whatever similar synth oil I have lying around.

 

[Texasflyer]

50/50 mix of ATF and acetone works better than any PB Blaster or Liquid wrench to get stuck bolts loose. Has nothing to do with an AR but great around the garage.

I use areo kroil, nothing works better than the kano.

 

[Yondering]

Whilst not disagreeing in principle, I'm fairly certain that because it not's burning your fingers on the outside, doesn't mean that some of the moving parts inside aren't experiencing rather hotter temperatures. If you don't believe this, reroute your gas tube out through your hand guard, or hold onto a bolt after a couple of mag dumps.

I'll use Mobil1 or whatever similar synth oil I have lying around.

Try it yourself, I have. The bolt and carrier don’t get that hot, and neither does the receiver.
The barrel can, farther out from the receiver, and a suppressor definitely can, but we aren’t lubing those parts.

Also, aluminum conducts heat extremely quickly, and if the BCG parts inside the receiver are as hot as you’re implying, the receiver will heat up rapidly as well. A steel receiver might have significantly hotter parts inside, but not so much on an AR.

Keep in mind that what you perceive as “too hot to hold” is well under 200*F. Maybe 150*. Anything in the range needed to burn off even the fastest of those oils in the video is instant burns for your hands.

 

[fdkay]

I use areo kroil, nothing works better than the kano.

This guy tested kroil against others.
This isn't a scientific test but he does quite a few tests on different products and he really seems to do a pretty good job.

 

[hypno02]

I use Mpro7 and absolutely love it.

 

[Texasflyer]

This guy tested kroil against others.
This isn't a scientific test but he does quite a few tests on different products and he really seems to do a pretty good job.

I also get it free at work which influences my decision lol.

 

[TurboTrout]

Enos slide glide lite

 

[Strangedays]

Slip

 

[357Max]

Yeah I’ll try it; got some in my Amazon cart now.

I had a good conversation with the owner of Polymer Dynamics today. He's an old school engineer that puts far more stock in real world testing vs lab testing. To put it in better words the lab is for making things & real world is for testing them. That's just how he's always done it. He also confirmed it was actually my former teacher from 1992 (George Billetdeaux) that put him up to making the 2A gun oil. Told me he'd formulated the 2A to have extra bond properties i.e. so it stays attached to metal & that's exactly what I'm seeing. He also said it is very viscous temp stable & that should apply equally to the cold extremes even though He'd not specifically targeted cold performance properties.

That high heat test turned a light bulb on for me. I've got a half dozen AR's that are sporting SLR adj gas blocks. Going to pull out the adjustment pins etc, clean, and coat them with the 2A. Polydyn also suggested putting a light coat on the bolt tail either side of the rings and said it will keep the carbon from sticking. I already run DLC BCG's on most of mine, but do have a couple with nitrited BCG's to try it on.

Tomorrow I'll be giving a bottle of the 2A to a friend that works at a test lab (ASTM among other things).
He's going to see what he can do to get some unofficial yet scientific testing done.
I already know it's good, but it would be nice to be able to quantify it's benefits. I'll update with any news.


Prior to finding the 2A oil I used this assembly lube on all new builds. Just on the high friction parts like cam pins, cocking cams, bolt lugs, etc.
Haven't decided if I'll keep using the Red Line or just go straight 2A.

Every one automatically associates Red Line with synthetic, but this assembly lube is not! It's a high paraffin Petroleum & Molly mixture.
I don't like full synthetic for anything metal on metal high friction, never have. Synthetic doesn't handle point loads well & requires full film coverage (think pressurized oiling) to work.

 

[Strelok]

Slip2000 EWL is the best I've used so far compared to about a dozen other firearm lubricants over the years.

 

[Yondering]

I had a good conversation with the owner of Polymer Dynamics today. He's an old school engineer that puts far more stock in real world testing vs lab testing.

Amen to that; I’ve been a mechanical test engineer for the past 20 years myself and fully agree with real world testing when possible, or at least duplicating real world conditions as closely as possible. That’s why I think these high heat “torture tests” for gun oils are so stupid. Accelerated testing can be very useful and practical, but not if the conditions are unrealistic.

FYI on the assembly lube though, and this goes for any motor oils and gear oils that contain paraffin- the presence of paraffin in lube is not a good thing for cold weather; it thickens and causes the lube to gum up. It doesn’t take extreme cold to do it either; depends on the lube of course but some will gum up right around freezing temp.

Gun oil testing should focus a lot more on cold temps than high, and should be looking at wear prevention at those temps as well as how well it stays put, and how well it cuts fouling. Your priorities for those details might be different than mine or the next guy, but anyone seriously recommending or promoting a particular lube should be able to at least discuss the relative characteristics of those attributes.

For example- I like using way oil in warm weather because it’s designed to lubricate sliding surfaces and stays put like grease, but is liquid enough to cut through powder fouling and keep the rifle running. On the other hand I prefer CorrosionX gun oil in the winter because it’s a little thinner and doesn’t gum up in the temperatures I live in, and does and even better job of cutting through fouling to the point that as long as I keep the BCG wet, I don’t need to worry about cleaning for reliability.

 

[NugginFutz]

Camel Urine or Yak spit both work to get you up and running in a pinch.

 

[AngryKoala]

So atf fluid? Get that nice gear oil stink goin on? And using atf as power steering fluid? The only thing i have ever used atf for other than in a transmission is putting a quart in a gas tank to remove water in a fuel system.

Just don't use anything designed for gear lubrication. It usually has a large quantity of sulfurized isobutylene or some polysulfide with a high active sulfur content. Not something you want for mainly a wear application with minor instances of EP type behavior.

The best gun lubricant will be one designed for mainly hydrodynamic with some boundary lubrication applications. Base fluids with a polymeric thixotrope will induce thixotropy which is needed as the gun heats up.

 

[AngryKoala]

Amen to that; I’ve been a mechanical test engineer for the past 20 years myself and fully agree with real world testing when possible, or at least duplicating real world conditions as closely as possible. That’s why I think these high heat “torture tests” for gun oils are so stupid. Accelerated testing can be very useful and practical, but not if the conditions are unrealistic.

FYI on the assembly lube though, and this goes for any motor oils and gear oils that contain paraffin- the presence of paraffin in lube is not a good thing for cold weather; it thickens and causes the lube to gum up. It doesn’t take extreme cold to do it either; depends on the lube of course but some will gum up right around freezing temp.

Gun oil testing should focus a lot more on cold temps than high, and should be looking at wear prevention at those temps as well as how well it stays put, and how well it cuts fouling. Your priorities for those details might be different than mine or the next guy, but anyone seriously recommending or promoting a particular lube should be able to at least discuss the relative characteristics of those attributes.

For example- I like using way oil in warm weather because it’s designed to lubricate sliding surfaces and stays put like grease, but is liquid enough to cut through powder fouling and keep the rifle running. On the other hand I prefer CorrosionX gun oil in the winter because it’s a little thinner and doesn’t gum up in the temperatures I live in, and does and even better job of cutting through fouling to the point that as long as I keep the BCG wet, I don’t need to worry about cleaning for reliability.

Thermal stability testing of the fluid can sometimes indicate the additives detergent capacity as well the dispersing capacity. Polymeric thixotropes can maintain the viscosity of the fluid when heated while contracting when cold. It is always fun playing with the rheometry of a fluid with added thixotropes under varying conditions.

 

[Yondering]

Thermal stability testing of the fluid can sometimes indicate the additives detergent capacity as well the dispersing capacity. Polymeric thixotropes can maintain the viscosity of the fluid when heated while contracting when cold. It is always fun playing with the rheometry of a fluid with added thixotropes under varying conditions.

When the “test” temperatures are way beyond what the oil will see in reality- I don’t care.

Also, are you just trying to make yourself sound smart, or do you actually think most people here understand what you’re saying? IMO a main proof of knowing what you’re talking about is the ability to explain it to the average person with common words. People who can’t or won’t, IMO probably don’t understand it that well and are just repeating what they’ve been taught.

 

[AngryKoala]

When the “test” temperatures are way beyond what the oil will see in reality- I don’t care.

Also, are you just trying to make yourself sound smart, or do you actually think most people here understand what you’re saying? IMO a main proof of knowing what you’re talking about is the ability to explain it to the average person with common words. People who can’t or won’t, IMO probably don’t understand it that well and are just repeating what they’ve been taught.

When the “test” temperatures are way beyond what the oil will see in reality- I don’t care.

Also, are you just trying to make yourself sound smart, or do you actually think most people here understand what you’re saying? IMO a main proof of knowing what you’re talking about is the ability to explain it to the average person with common words. People who can’t or won’t, IMO probably don’t understand it that well and are just repeating what they’ve been taught.

You may not care but it is a valid test for certain performance attributes. It has aided he development of many additive formulations. Real world testing is always a requirement to test the formulation.

I would think most people here would understand the terminology I used. If not they are simple concepts that can be easily googled. No need to try and sound smart, I'll leave that to the people that actually give me a check every two weeks.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

100% Synthetic Firearm Lubricant and Protectant

Shop 100% Synthetic Firearm Lubricant and Protectant at AMSOIL. Find premium synthetic oil, filters and more online. Fast, free shipping available.

www.amsoil.com

I like any company that sells stuff for the Jeep and the guns

 

[Yondering]

You may not care but it is a valid test for certain performance attributes. It has aided he development of many additive formulations. Real world testing is always a requirement to test the formulation.

I would think most people here would understand the terminology I used. If not they are simple concepts that can be easily googled. No need to try and sound smart, I'll leave that to the people that actually give me a check every two weeks.

Please enlighten us then - what real world performance attributes for an AR are being evaluated by some YouTube guy heating oil in a frying pan? We’ve already discussed how the inside of an AR receiver doesn’t get anywhere near that hot, so explain how that’s a useful test or why we should care.

 

[AngryKoala]

Please enlighten us then - what real world performance attributes for an AR are being evaluated by some YouTube guy heating oil in a frying pan? We’ve already discussed how the inside of an AR receiver doesn’t get anywhere near that hot, so explain how that’s a useful test or why we should care.

I wasn't referencing a youtube guy in heating oil in a frying pan but rather a modified version of ASTM D2070 (thermal stability). Allows an individual to observe the tendency of an oil to degrade, how well the detergent keeps the degraded material off the copper and steel rods and how well the dispersant can disperse the particles in the fluid.

Maybe I misread your post as I was talking about a thermal stability test.

 

[Davo308]

Camel Urine or Yak spit both work to get you up and running in a pinch.

So will oil dipsticks.

 

[Davo308]

So let's say you are a desert cave man, who has ran militec, mobile synthetic oil on autoloader, and mobile synthetic grease in bolt actions.

Priorities are as a warm weather lube that stays put and corrosion inhibitor.

You can buy or make your own.

What do you pick?

Also whats the process like of blending a synthetic grease into a synthetic oil?

 

[Aftermath]

am unable to comment on extreme warm weather lubes but in -40F, almost all oils coagulate. My old Colt SP1 ran just fine with some graphite as lube in such weather. I ALWAYS clean when I get home so I'd leave it lubed up with a light machine oil.
Of note....millions of people around the earth clean their AK's with diesel fuel drained or siphoned from fuel tanks and use the dipstick to lube the parts that rub.

 

[AngryKoala]

So let's say you are a desert cave man, who has ran militec, mobile synthetic oil on autoloader, and mobile synthetic grease in bolt actions.

Priorities are as a warm weather lube that stays put and corrosion inhibitor.

You can buy or make your own.

What do you pick?

Also whats the process like of blending a synthetic grease into a synthetic oil?

It would be tough for someone to make their own as the additives that are used are only available to the chemical industry for the most part. Unless you mean blend finished fluids together.

I make my own because I have access to the additives, the mixing equipment and the testing equipment.

Corrosion inhibition is tricky as you only have so much surface area on the substrate with competing additives. So you really have to play around with the additive components to find a ratio that performs well without interfering too much with the other components.

Synthetic grease is mainly synthetic oil and soap so I'm not sure what you're asking unless you want to cut the grease to make a different grade of grease.

 

[Ghosting]

One that I did not see mentioned is 50010 Corrosion X for guns. It's up there with the best lubes. Works for both shooting and storage purposes.
I use to keep my guns in a safe in the garage and I live in a humid area. I would lube them once a year. None ever got rust. Also no issues when shooting in ARs after 500+ rounds in a day.

 

[BurnOut]

Just don't use anything designed for gear lubrication. It usually has a large quantity of sulfurized isobutylene or some polysulfide with a high active sulfur content. Not something you want for mainly a wear application with minor instances of EP type behavior.

The best gun lubricant will be one designed for mainly hydrodynamic with some boundary lubrication applications. Base fluids with a polymeric thixotrope will induce thixotropy which is needed as the gun heats up.

So, help a layman understand the point(s) you're making here. Per a quick Googling, thixotropy is a condition in which a fluid thins as it is sheared, and re-thickens over time once at rest.

That said, what is the bit about not using gear lubes? They're thick (most are at least 75 weight, and some are as high as 250 weight), they're designed for high shearing conditions, and resist slinging. What's not to like?

 

[fdkay]

So, help a layman understand the point(s) you're making here. Per a quick Googling, thixotropy is a condition in which a fluid thins as it is sheared, and re-thickens over time once at rest.

That said, what is the bit about not using gear lubes? They're thick (most are at least 75 weight, and some are as high as 250 weight), they're designed for high shearing conditions, and resist slinging. What's not to like?

Gear lubes aren't designed for heat.
The temps of the gases entering the action are quite high, even though momentary.

 

[AngryKoala]

So, help a layman understand the point(s) you're making here. Per a quick Googling, thixotropy is a condition in which a fluid thins as it is sheared, and re-thickens over time once at rest.

That said, what is the bit about not using gear lubes? They're thick (most are at least 75 weight, and some are as high as 250 weight), they're designed for high shearing conditions, and resist slinging. What's not to like?

Yes gear lubes are thick, ISO 220- 680 with open gear lubes being 460 - 1000. Thixotropy is a fluids response to shear. You can have shear thinning, shear thickening and newtonian (Google those and you'll see a nice graph). You also have loss in viscosity due to heat (can be somewhat overcome by polymeric materials that expand and thicken the fluid when heated).

Thicker is not always better and can actually decrease operational efficiency. It is exactly why a grade 2 or 3 grease commonly found in industrial applications is not great for guns. 0 or maybe a 1 grade would be better for gun applications (my opinion, not an engineer). This is where design (engineer) of the fluid or grease for a specific application come into play.

I'll explain it like this. Finished fluids (additive + base oil) are specifically designed for an application for a reason. Engineers design the lubrication parameters and additive chemists design the additive (my job), sometimes there is overlap.

So gears (gear box) are mostly closed systems. Guns are open systems so again the requirements are different. Also, you are talking about very thin lubrication (gun) vs circulatory (splash, spray) lubrication of gears.

With gear formulations you need antifoams, demulsifiers (think opposite of an emulsion, emulsion breaking), yellow metal passivators, corrosion inhibitors, anti-oxidants, load bearing anti-wear agent and extreme pressure additives (sulfur derivatives) with a high active sulfur. Does this sound like all of this is needed for thin film gun lubrication?

What is experienced in a gear? In general high loads. What problem do high loads cause? Scuffing and welding which cause extreme wear and seizing. Theres also a phenomenon known as micropitting but that is a topic for a different discussion. EP additives and load bearing anti-wear additives help with this. However, those EP additives also inhibit the protection provided by AW additive (only so much surface area, competition occurs). Formulation is about balance.

Guns for the most part will not experience high loads thus EP additives are not needed in the concentration that are required by gear applications. In this instance they can actually reduce the efficiency of the anti-wear agent.

People have the misconception that oh the gun runs with lubricant "X" which means it's okay. That is right and wrong at the same time. It may run but is it running efficiently? This is where wear and part life come into play. This is obviously without talking about surface coatings which help extend part life.

I also didn't introduce the concept of staining of aluminum (not a huge deal due to anodization) but that is something that a gear lubricant wouldn't address.

In summary, use a lubricant designed for the application as that will be the most efficient at running your equipment. Efficiency is the key as it will optimize part life and work in the conditions you require it to.

The closest industrial lubricant additive I've come across is a slide way additive but even that requires tweaking.

 

[tomcatfan]

So in summary, most people, myself included, are completely ignorant when it comes to fluids and coatings. So simple question for the experts, do you know of a lube that is optimized for the AR-15 bolt?

It sounds like what is optimized for a bolt in a Remington 700 wouldn’t necessarily be optimized for a pistol slide, or an AR-15 bolt as all 3 of those things move very differently and under different conditions.

 

[AngryKoala]

So in summary, most people, myself included, are completely ignorant when it comes to fluids and coatings. So simple question for the experts, do you know of a lube that is optimized for the AR-15 bolt?

It sounds like what is optimized for a bolt in a Remington 700 wouldn’t necessarily be optimized for a pistol slide, or an AR-15 bolt as all 3 of those things move very differently and under different conditions.

That would be a great question for an engineer which I believe we have some on this board. My application knowledge only goes so far as my concern/focus/main knowledge base is the additive chemistry. It is also not something I have been allowed to research as the additive market isn't as lucrative for firearms as it is for Automotive, Wind and Industrial machinery.

 

[Yondering]

Gear lubes aren't designed for heat.
The temps of the gases entering the action are quite high, even though momentary.

Gear lubes are plenty capable of handling all the heat inside an AR receiver.

Some of y’all seem to focus on some peak temperature value without any perspective on how they relate to actual use or details that really matter.

Gear lube can, in fact, be an excellent gun lube if you’re only using it in warm conditions. It lubricates well and doesn’t run off or evaporate like many thinner oils. The rest of the stuff AngryKoala said about them doesn’t matter in an AR as far as I’m concerned, and efficiency isn’t something to be concerned about in this application. With that said, if the conditions warrant a thick gear oil, I use a lathe way oil since it stays put better.

AngryKoala - no offense, and you seem to know a lot about oils, but most of what you’ve described here is really lab nerd stuff that doesn’t have much practical relevance to an AR. Efficiency, for example, is important for automotive applications but not so much in a rifle; as long as the lube protects from wear and doesn’t prevent operation it doesn’t matter if a thicker lube causes a little more drag.

 

[Yondering]

One that I did not see mentioned is 50010 Corrosion X for guns. It's up there with the best lubes. Works for both shooting and storage purposes.
I use to keep my guns in a safe in the garage and I live in a humid area. I would lube them once a year. None ever got rust. Also no issues when shooting in ARs after 500+ rounds in a day.

This is what I use most of the time. Never seen a gun rust that was lubed with it, and it’s thin enough to cut through fouling and keep a dirty AR running well but not as thin as most CLP products.

 

[Yondering]

So let's say you are a desert cave man, who has ran militec, mobile synthetic oil on autoloader, and mobile synthetic grease in bolt actions.

Priorities are as a warm weather lube that stays put and corrosion inhibitor.

You can buy or make your own.

What do you pick?

Also whats the process like of blending a synthetic grease into a synthetic oil?

Keep it simple- that synthetic grease (really any brand of that red automotive grease) will do it for a clean gun in hot environments, but may not cut through the fouling as well as an oil in my experience. Lathe way oil will, and is readily available. Or just use CorrosionX for everything.

One comment for those using ARs in cold weather- keep the firing pin dry. It doesn’t need much lube anyway, and cold-thickened oil in the firing pin is the first point of failure to shut down an AR in cold weather.

 

[TxWelder35]

So im currently going to try testing ATF and putting wheel bearing grease on the contact points of the BCG.

Running suppressed 100% of the time my gun is bone dry very quick into a range session. I was using tw-25b grease and hopped t1 synthetic oil.

thinking is that the wheel bearing grease would soak up any carbon fouling and not just dry out. ATF has similar properties since it’s designed to soak up clutch material inside of a trans and still keep everything lubricated

 

[Maxduty]

100% Synthetic Firearm Lubricant and Protectant

Shop 100% Synthetic Firearm Lubricant and Protectant at AMSOIL. Find premium synthetic oil, filters and more online. Fast, free shipping available.

www.amsoil.com

I like any company that sells stuff for the Jeep and the guns

I've also been using this with good results. I haven't tried it in extreme temperatures, but it seems to work well without gumming up. And it'a good oil manufacturer to boot.

 

[AngryKoala]

Gear lubes are plenty capable of handling all the heat inside an AR receiver.

Some of y’all seem to focus on some peak temperature value without any perspective on how they relate to actual use or details that really matter.

Gear lube can, in fact, be an excellent gun lube if you’re only using it in warm conditions. It lubricates well and doesn’t run off or evaporate like many thinner oils. The rest of the stuff AngryKoala said about them doesn’t matter in an AR as far as I’m concerned, and efficiency isn’t something to be concerned about in this application. With that said, if the conditions warrant a thick gear oil, I use a lathe way oil since it stays put better.

AngryKoala - no offense, and you seem to know a lot about oils, but most of what you’ve described here is really lab nerd stuff that doesn’t have much practical relevance to an AR. Efficiency, for example, is important for automotive applications but not so much in a rifle; as long as the lube protects from wear and doesn’t prevent operation it doesn’t matter if a thicker lube causes a little more drag.

No offense taken but I will say this. Efficiency always matters and is not application dependent. It is how we delineate the performance of different products. The things I described effect the overall performance.

You are also correct that a gear oil will work as will a myriad of other products. I believe someone did ask what was the best product and that is what I was trying to describe. The process on how one would obtain the best product for their application (sustained firing of pew pews in this instance).

Will gear oil, atf, Mobil 1 and all of these other products work? Absolutely, are they the best product for this application....I would argue, no. A product designed for the specific application will almost always outperform a different product designed for other applications (there is crossover sometimes).

In reality, if a part fails it gets replaced and the cost of doing so in an AR is not prohibitive which is why the efficiency is not as important as other applications. Also, most people do not shoot their guns enough to truly wear out the parts in a gun unless your @TheHorta with piles of cash and dildos.

Back to bed, I have to have a "sales" meeting tomorrow....

 

[Yondering]

No offense taken but I will say this. Efficiency always matters and is not application dependent. It is how we delineate the performance of different products. The things I described effect the overall performance.

You are also correct that a gear oil will work as will a myriad of other products. I believe someone did ask what was the best product and that is what I was trying to describe. The process on how one would obtain the best product for their application (sustained firing of pew pews in this instance).

Will gear oil, atf, Mobil 1 and all of these other products work? Absolutely, are they the best product for this application....I would argue, no. A product designed for the specific application will almost always outperform a different product designed for other applications (there is crossover sometimes).

In reality, if a part fails it gets replaced and the cost of doing so in an AR is not prohibitive which is why the efficiency is not as important as other applications. Also, most people do not shoot their guns enough to truly wear out the parts in a gun unless your @TheHorta with piles of cash and dildos.

Back to bed, I have to have a "sales" meeting tomorrow....

No, efficiency does not always matter. Maybe in the lab, but not in the real world. Your post is a great example of the difference between theory and practical application. In theory your ideas are correct, but in the real world- it doesn’t matter.

Same for all your comments on what ideal lubricant properties are - almost none of us have access to data to tell us how those properties compare in different products, so your info is just theoretical and not really of any practical value here. If you want to offer some actual useful input, suggest some real products we can buy that work the way you want. Otherwise I don’t see how any of the science nerd stuff helps us.

 

[AngryKoala]

No, efficiency does not always matter. Maybe in the lab, but not in the real world. Your post is a great example of the difference between theory and practical application. In theory your ideas are correct, but in the real world- it doesn’t matter.

Same for all your comments on what ideal lubricant properties are - almost none of us have access to data to tell us how those properties compare in different products, so your info is just theoretical and not really of any practical value here. If you want to offer some actual useful input, suggest some real products we can buy that work the way you want. Otherwise I don’t see how any of the science nerd stuff helps us.

Gun oil = designed for guns (More than likely has "lab nerd stuff" used during development).

Gear oil, Mobil 1, ATF = designed for other applications ("lab nerd stuff" used during development for those applications).

"Efficiency doesn't matter in the real world"...well gee wiz I'll make sure to let everyone who actually develops products for a living know that little tid bit. It would make our job 100x easier and quicker...

 

[Yondering]

Gun oil = designed for guns (More than likely has "lab nerd stuff" used during development).

Gear oil, Mobil 1, ATF = designed for other applications ("lab nerd stuff" used during development for those applications).

"Efficiency doesn't matter in the real world"...well gee wiz I'll make sure to let everyone who actually develops products for a living know that little tid bit. It would make our job 100x easier and quicker...

You seem to be missing the point that we’re not in a development lab, so none of that stuff matters here. This is a gun forum, full of guys who just want to know what some good oil choices are; we aren’t developing anything here and don’t need the details about how to develop a good lubricant. You can talk about all the technical stuff you want, but if you can’t make it relevant to this audience and provide useful and practical input, then it’s just lab nerd stuff and of no value to most of us here.

And if you need a better understanding of why I use the word “nerd” here - that’s someone who can’t bridge the gap between theory and practical application, and can’t relate to their audience in a way they understand. A nerd will often argue endlessly about technical details that have little or no relevance to the real world.

 

[AngryKoala]

You seem to be missing the point that we’re not in a development lab, so none of that stuff matters here. This is a gun forum, full of guys who just want to know what some good oil choices are; we aren’t developing anything here and don’t need the details about how to develop a good lubricant. You can talk about all the technical stuff you want, but if you can’t make it relevant to this audience and provide useful and practical input, then it’s just lab nerd stuff and of no value to most of us here.

And if you need a better understanding of why I use the word “nerd” here - that’s someone who can’t bridge the gap between theory and practical application, and can’t relate to their audience in a way they understand. A nerd will often argue endlessly about technical details that have little or no relevance to the real world.

There is no best gun lubricant which is why I kept it broad. Just use a product designed for guns and yes there is snake oil out there because the consumer is uninformed.

Before I made my own I used Lucas extreme duty and it seemed to work fine. Knowing the theory behind the application helps make an informed choice.

Knowing the basic principles, testing and other facets gives the consumer power to choose. How? Well call Lucas or any other company up and ask to speak to their technical department. An informed individual can weed out the bullshit an uninformed individual is like a happy dog wagging his tail. Question them on the testing that went into their product (both lab and field).

I have to do it all the time and if they won't or can't then move on to a different product. Getting to the end without knowing all the in-between is lazy. Research leads to knowledge and knowledge is power.

If you find information useless then there isn't much else to discuss. Keep on using that gear oil.

 

[fdkay]

Gun oil = designed for guns (More than likely has "lab nerd stuff" used during development).

Gear oil, Mobil 1, ATF = designed for other applications ("lab nerd stuff" used during development for those applications).

"Efficiency doesn't matter in the real world"...well gee wiz I'll make sure to let everyone who actually develops products for a living know that little tid bit. It would make our job 100x easier and quicker...

Shame on you for explaining stuff.