AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

[toshu]

I have a relatively new DPMS LR 308B (18in barrel)that I am working with. I have used 168gr Federal GMM and need some more ammo, that I want to order this weekend to take advantage of sales.

I was going to buy a case of 175gr ammo (SW and Federal) to try but want to know how folks have done with this round in their 1:10 twist gas guns???
Does the heavier round work better at 600 yd or even farther??

Is the velocity of the 175gr too high??

 

[Redmanss]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

You can't go wrong with the 175gr. You can with the 168....

Yes, long range you want the 175. 168 falls off early.

 

[powderBurnz]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

168s are all goofy at 1000.

Out to about 600, give or take I have total confidence in them.

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

The 175gr Sierra Match King is the sweet spot for the AR-10 from what I've seen, short of hand-loading your own.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

The reason I asked is because of this thread from a Hide vendor about a "new, special" round for gas guns.....

Copper Creek Gas Gun ammo thread

It did not quite make sense to me, but hey, I am a noob.

So based on what you guys with gas guns are using, I should be switching from 168 to 175s??

Thinking of taking advantage of the good pricing from Palmetto on Federal GMM and the SW 175s this weekend

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

190s are even better if going long range, 175s are pretty much knee of the curve and hard to beat for an all around load.

190s are 2550 from my 20" AR w/Brux barrel.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">190s are even better if going long range, 175s are pretty much knee of the curve and hard to beat for an all around load.

190s are 2550 from my 20" AR w/Brux barrel.
</div></div>

Since i do not reload yet, i am trying to stick with good "factory" ammo that is "reasonably" priced. So 190s.....uh are for the future maybe.

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Define reasonably priced?

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define reasonably priced?
</div></div>

My definition is around $1.00 based on what is available today from others for 168 and 175gr ammo. At some point there is a diminishing return on enhanced accuracy in terms of value.

But again, I may not be representative of other shooters. I try to find Value in any product. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive.

 

[adam1122]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Go to southwest ammunition and you can choose 175smks loaded with either lapua or win brass......can't go wrong with this stuff. It's as close to a custom hand load as I have ever gotten.

 

[BCP]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

You really ought to consider handloading...

Cheapest "match" ammo I've found is PRVI, best I have found is federal gold medal match.

If you are just plinking you could get some 150grain PRVI or Magtech both of those shot about 1-1.5" groups from my 18" DPMS barrel.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You really ought to consider handloading...

Cheapest "match" ammo I've found is PRVI, best I have found is federal gold medal match.

If you are just plinking you could get some 150grain PRVI or Magtech both of those shot about 1-1.5" groups from my 18" DPMS barrel. </div></div>

As some point I will probably reload....just not there yet....

Are shooting the 175 or the 168 Federal??

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go to southwest ammunition and you can choose 175smks loaded with either lapua or win brass......can't go wrong with this stuff. It's as close to a custom hand load as I have ever gotten. </div></div>

Yes, I was planning on getting some 175s from SW Ammo as well as Federal GMM from Palmetto, but then came across the thread by Copper Creek that I posted above, and started to wonder if I should not be trying any 175s in my AR 10........hence this thread.

 

[TenZero]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

The 'gas gun' 175s from Copper Creek are in 7.62x51 brass, (Lake City I think) and may not work if you have a .308 chamber. The SW 175 SMKs in new win brass are .308 and will def work. I tried 7.62 milsurp in my DPMS .308, and it is no go. DPMS CS confirms this.

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toshu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define reasonably priced?
</div></div>

My definition is around $1.00 based on what is available today from others for 168 and 175gr ammo. At some point there is a diminishing return on enhanced accuracy in terms of value.

But again, I may not be representative of other shooters. I try to find Value in any product. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive. </div></div>

I'm a $1/rd for 168 or 178 A-max, $1.05 for SMK.
I meet your criteria for reasonably priced. I suppose the question is do I meet your value/quality criteria?

 

[3O8Junkie]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I prefer the 175 in my 1/10 twist, as others have already stated.

 

[Chris K]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go to southwest ammunition and you can choose 175smks loaded with either lapua or win brass......can't go wrong with this stuff. It's as close to a custom hand load as I have ever gotten. </div></div>

I think they are priced right for what you get, IIRC I paid about $1.00 a round for some 300WM I got from them. I had a rifle that needed shooting, I was home on leave and loading wasn't an option time wise. I got the SW Ammo 190's and they shot very well, sub MOA out to 600. I was a little rusty on the bolt gun so I'm sure the ammo was better than me.

C_K

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TenZero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 'gas gun' 175s from Copper Creek are in 7.62x51 brass, (Lake City I think) and may not work if you have a .308 chamber. The SW 175 SMKs in new win brass are .308 and will def work. I tried 7.62 milsurp in my DPMS .308, and it is no go. DPMS CS confirms this. </div></div>

yeah, I here you...my 18 in gun is definitely a 308 gun ..

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I am curious, with the 175s in my 18 in barrel like mine, will accuracy be impacted negatively at the closer ranges as compared to the 168s?????

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toshu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define reasonably priced?
</div></div>

My definition is around $1.00 based on what is available today from others for 168 and 175gr ammo. At some point there is a diminishing return on enhanced accuracy in terms of value.

But again, I may not be representative of other shooters. I try to find Value in any product. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive. </div></div>

I'm a $1/rd for 168 or 178 A-max, $1.05 for SMK.
I meet your criteria for reasonably priced. I suppose the question is do I meet your value/quality criteria? </div></div>

what about 190s??

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

$1.08/rd plus actual shipping for 190 SMK match.

I've not tried them in an CAR length gas system. I suspect you'll be over gassed in factory configuration and need an adjustable gas block or mod your current gas block.

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I would seriously agree with most of the other guys here in the statement that the 175 is a sort of sweet spot for the .308 platform of the AR10. I do however, like to use it for longer range stuff. For anything from 100 to 250 yards, I get a good result with 150 grain SST from Hornady. BUT... I have only been shooting like this for a while as I transferred from doing A LOT of pistol shooting. I have found rifle shooting to be a bit more challenging, and requires much more attention to detail and have found myself to make many more mistakes than I ever did shooting a pistol. So maybe my ammo choices are tainted by in-experience in this area.

 

[Tazman]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I have had good luck with the Hornady 168 TAP ammo from my Armalite SASS. The 178 Superperformance shoots really well out of my GAP Bolt gun and my AR. I use the AR and GAP rifle as a duty weapon sometimes so I don't reload for it. All my other rifles shoot hand loads.

The new Hornady Zombie Loads shoot great also!!lol I bought a few boxes just as a novelty.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tazman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had good luck with the Hornady 168 TAP ammo from my Armalite SASS. The 178 Superperformance shoots really well out of my GAP Bolt gun and my AR. </div></div>

Hmmm...I had bought a box of the Hornady Superperformance but have not tried it. I read somewhere that it was too hot to shoot, or there was some other problem with using it with Gas Guns......

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Superformance IS NOT intended to be used in gas guns. It's clearly laid out on the Hornady website.

THIS is what happened when I tried running through a POF P308 with a 20" barrel.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Ouch!!!

That does not look good......

I vaguely remember something about this where the original product was a non no for gas guns, but that it was being reworked to e "safe"....obviously thats not the case

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

DAMN KILLSHOT..! I hope there was no other damage !! That rifle is AWFULLY SWEET !! and the loss of a body part would SUCK big time..! I may re-think my ammo..?!

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> DAMN KILLSHOT..! I hope there was no other damage !! That rifle is AWFULLY SWEET !! and the loss of a body part would SUCK big time..! I may re-think my ammo..?!</div></div>

No damage to the rifle, thankfully. Hornady was nice enough to swap out all 260rds of the 178gr BTHP for 168gr A-Max at no charge to me for shipping or otherwise.

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Damn nice of em... You can't return ammo around here ANYWHERE... (Illinois), was that just through Hornady..?

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Damn nice of em... You can't return ammo around here ANYWHERE... (Illinois), was that just through Hornady..?</div></div>

Yes, I contacted Hornady directly and they arranged for free shipping to and from their facility.

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

So can I ask what are shooting now out to around 350 to 500..?

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So can I ask what are shooting now out to around 350 to 500..?</div></div>

Let me preface what I'm about to say with, I am not the foremost authority on precision shooting. That being said, the 168 is favored out to 600 and from that point on, the 175SMK is what you want unless you have no problem laying down the cash for 155 Scenars.

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Cool, thanx... I like the 175's and there price isn't bad either..! But the 155's are still too much $$ for me right now. I will pick up a box of the 175's this week and try 'em out. Thank you sir...

 

[Lockdown1243]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

My MWS loves 168g SST rounds. .6 MOA out of that with those bullets.

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool, thanx... I like the 175's and there price isn't bad either..! But the 155's are still too much $$ for me right now. I will pick up a box of the 175's this week and try 'em out. Thank you sir...</div></div>

Keep in mind that what may perform great in one rifle may not do so well in another. It would serve you well to purchase a box or two of 175SMK, 168 A-Max, and whatever else you've been wanting to try. By doing this, you'll know exactly what works best in your rifle rather than spending money on ammo that doesn't perform as well.

 

[didithurt]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lockdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My MWS loves 168g SST rounds. .6 MOA out of that with those bullets. </div></div>

AWESOME maybe I'll try those out. I had been using the 150 sst's but my groups are still a little off, mostly due to operator error I believe. I am pretty new to my rifle and have to get rid of a few bad habits I picked up pistol shooting, they were easier to hide while shooting at closer range. So, one of the guys here suggested video during shooting to someone else, I think I'll try that, and work from there.

 

[Tazman]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I saw the post on the Hornady Superperformance but I haven't had the issue with my rifle. I have the new loads that have the "staked" primers and they seem fine. It's probably because I haven't used them in the heat of summer yet. They shoot really well out of both of my 308's but I prefer the 168 TAP for my SASS.

I think the 178 AMAX would be a good bullet to load for a general purpose round but I know a lot of folks like the 208 AMAX. I use it in the 300WM.

 

[Nothnbutrouble]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Greetings,

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here...but I'm currently in the "same" situation as the OP.
I just picked up my first AR10... a slight "upgrade" from my 700 SPS Bolt IMHO. Gun has only been fed a diet of 168gr Fed Gold Match BTHP ammo out of it.
I'm currently in the market for ammo...since the 700 is tuned in with 150 gr ammo for pigs.
I'm looking into grabbing a case of M118 LR ammo for the new AR10...and was hoping to confirm that this would be an appropriate round to stretch this 10 out...not that the 168's are terrible...but were going to be well past 600 now.
Here is the new 10... sporting the Lothar Walther 24" stainless match polygonal rifled barrel.

 

[KillShot]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nothnbutrouble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Greetings,

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here...but I'm currently in the "same" situation as the OP.
I just picked up my first AR10... a slight "upgrade" from my 700 SPS Bolt IMHO. Gun has only been fed a diet of 168gr Fed Gold Match BTHP ammo out of it.
I'm currently in the market for ammo...since the 700 is tuned in with 150 gr ammo for pigs.
I'm looking into grabbing a case of M118 LR ammo for the new AR10...and was hoping to confirm that this would be an appropriate round to stretch this 10 out...not that the 168's are terrible...but were going to be well past 600 now.
Here is the new 10... sporting the Lothar Walther 24" stainless match polygonal rifled barrel.

</div></div>

The FGMM 175gr Sierra Match King should perform nicely for you.

 

[Nothnbutrouble]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Thank you for the confirmation on the "175gr Federal's".

 

[adam1122]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Killshot - dont go screwing up one of the collest rifles on the hide by putting that superperformance load. That would be a greek tragedy if your rifle was put out of commission by an ammo choice!

Sweet rig man,

 

[RonboF117]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I haven't shot it but Brian Litz's ammo has gotten good reviews. I believe he says the accuracy really shows past 600 yards or so.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I have had similar results with the 178gr Superformance in my AR10/Noveske. Couple of pierced primers and some blown out.

No-go for me in my gas gun.

175gr Black Hills and 175gr Gold Metal Match work great.

I prefer to reload though. 178gr BTHP and 178gr AMAX are my preferred bullets.

 

[okiefired]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Wow, I've been preaching literally for years on this site that there is absolutely nothing a 175/178 wont do as well or better than a 168 and it looks like some are now actually agreeing. From what I understand, the 168 SMK's became so popular because they were developed by Sierra for conpetition that was limited to the weight and they did very well. They do pretty well for me out to about 600 or so, after that thier tounges start hangin out and the 178 Amax's I luv simply start walking off and leaving them, its a no brainer. If you dont reload, get yourself some 175 FGMM or Black Hills and rock and roll, dont waste your time with the 168's.

okie

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: didithurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So can I ask what are shooting now out to around 350 to 500..?</div></div>

Let me preface what I'm about to say with, I am not the foremost authority on precision shooting. That being said, the 168 is favored out to 600 and from that point on, the 175SMK is what you want unless you have no problem laying down the cash for 155 Scenars. </div></div>

I have found that in an AR you can not really drive the 155 Scenars to a velocity that offers an advantage over the 175 SMK. 190 SMK is an even better choice if reaching out as the 190 spanks the 155 for wind drift, energy on target at 1K. Provided you a can get 2750 fps from a 155 Scenar out of a 20" gas gun vs 2525 fps from a 190 SMK out of the same rifle, the 155 is 2" flatter to 1K yet the 190 SMK is 8" inside the 155 Scenar for wind drift and hits with 30% more energy.

Inside 600, 168 is hard to beat. 175 SMK is better then the 168 for work past 600. If I had to pick a single bullet for use out of a 20" AR that will get me to 1K it would be the 190 SMK.

 

[1979brj]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Tag

 

[okiefired]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

Well, like I said (and I'm talkin 308's here, not win mags or '06's) there is nothing a 175 wont do as well or better than a 168. If you'e talking a slow twist barrel (12) at <600, the 168's just barely keep up. After that and at any range in a faster twist (say 11 twist or faster), the 175/178's just simply walk off and leave them. I really dont like running anything heavier than the 178's in a 308 and have very little experience with any of the larger chaimberings with the 190+ so I wont comment on them. Years ago I got in on a 178 Amax group buy on this forum to use in my LTR and AR10T, I havn't bought a 168 pill of any kind since and I dont miss them a bit. Sorry for repeating myself.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I am the OP and my gun has a DPMS 18in bull barrel with 1:10 twist.

With all the great feedback, it is clear to me that standard 175s are ok/safe in my gas gun, but some 190s may over gas the gun unless I switch to an adjustable gas port.

With my short barrel, will the 175s stabilize and be as accurate as the 168s at short ranges of 100-200 yd?? Also, if I am shooting F Class at 600 yd with that same rifle, which will be more accurate???

 

[FCS]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

I'd go 175 over 168, you may give up a small amout of accuracy at 1-200 yards but at 600 the 175 will be clear winner.

CAR gas system on your rifle, correct?

Sending you some information in a PM.

 

[toshu]

Re: AR10 168 gr or 175gr ammo??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go 175 over 168, you may give up a small amout of accuracy at 1-200 yards but at 600 the 175 will be clear winner.

CAR gas system on your rifle, correct?

Sending you some information in a PM. </div></div>

Yes, carbine gas system