AR10 Optic Advice: Sig Tango6 or Tract Toric

[Big-Shooter]

I just finished a new AR build in .308 and the last thing I need to purchase is an optic. My price range is $1000 (plus/minus $200) and the rifle will be used mostly at a range of 100-1000 yards. I’ve been considering a Sig Tango6 3-18x44 or a Tract Toric 4-20x50. Both are ffp scopes with multiple illuminated reticle options. I’ve been able to check out a Tango6 2-12x40, but I’ve only read good things on the Tract scopes (haven’t had the chance to check one out).

Looking for some feedback from users of these scopes and or other comparable recommendations. I know there are higher quality options available for $2k or more, but my budget won’t allow that.

 

[Proxemus]

Look at some. Meopta optica 6. They have pretty nice scopes.

 

[Eric_F]

If you're not concerned about weight, I'd look at the ETR 3-18.

Product Description

Product Description | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

If you want more lightweight, there have been some great deals in the PX here for PST Gen II 3-15's.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Tract. They crushed lowlights tracking tests and glass is premium LOW stuff. Dollar for dollar they're way up there.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

It would be our pleasure to discuss different options with you. Your timing is excellent as we are running our Store Wide 4th of July Sale Now through July 5th

 

[Big-Shooter]

Thanks to all for your initial feedback! @Proxemus , I like your idea to check some out, but I can only find what I’ll call the “Big Box” brands in my area: Leupold, Vortex, Crimson Trace & Trijicon. I’ve been to many shops, but no one around here has Meopta, Athlon or Tract.

I was able to check-out one Sig Tango6, but it was 2-12x40, not 3-18x44 or 4-24x50. It seemed to have nice glass & reticle, but a little dark (maybe less light due to the smaller primary lens?).

I would like to hear more about why each of you recommends the Meopta, Athlon & Tract scopes. @gr8fuldoug, I might give you a call.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Thanks to all for your initial feedback! @Proxemus , I like your idea to check some out, but I can only find what I’ll call the “Big Box” brands in my area: Leupold, Vortex, Crimson Trace & Trijicon. I’ve been to many shops, but no one around here has Meopta, Athlon or Tract.

I was able to check-out one Sig Tango6, but it was 2-12x40, not 3-18x44 or 4-24x50. It seemed to have nice glass & reticle, but a little dark (maybe less light due to the smaller primary lens?).

I would like to hear more about why each of you recommends the Meopta, Athlon & Tract scopes. @gr8fuldoug, I might give you a call.

It is always our pleasure to discuss options with the members here

 

[Glassaholic]

Both scopes are heavy beasts and not what I prefer for AR-10 rifles (but that is my preference). Both are made by LOW (this is a good thing, LOW is one of the best OEM's). Tract is direct to consumer but Sig can be had for sale usually much lower than normal pricing; however, I believe Sig has discontinued the 3-18x44 so not sure about availability.

I did a review of the Tract a few years ago and considered it one of the best budget scopes out there in regard to price/performance. One thing about the Tract 4-20 (and Sig for that matter) is that FOV is pretty tight, that and the weight (for a 30mm) were the biggest drawbacks.

Tract Toric 4-20×50 FFP Mil Review » OpticsThoughts

Edit: I will mention that the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18 has "come down" in price since my initial review making it a better value, I have also heard they have improved on QC and my copy may have been an anomaly. I would like to get my hands on another Mark 5 scope at some point to re-review it. The Mark 5 can be found for your price range if you look around so may be something to consider.

 

[Big-Shooter]

@Glassaholic, just read your review of the Tract Toric, great write-up! I have to admit, the comparison to the Bushnell Elite LRHS sent me looking for info/pricing on that scope as well, but it seems that model is no longer made and reviews on the current Bushnell Elite DMR seem to be mixed with good/bad feedback. This has me leaning toward the Tract, despite the weight, especially since I currently have the option to purchase a pre-owned/unused unit for less than $1000. The only concern is the CA, you mentioned. Was the CA significant on the Tract compared to other scopes? I saw that you didn’t rate that factor against the others…

 

[Glassaholic]

@Glassaholic, just read your review of the Tract Toric, great write-up! I have to admit, the comparison to the Bushnell Elite LRHS sent me looking for info/pricing on that scope as well, but it seems that model is no longer made and reviews on the current Bushnell Elite DMR seem to be mixed with good/bad feedback. This has me leaning toward the Tract, despite the weight, especially since I currently have the option to purchase a pre-owned/unused unit for less than $1000. The only concern is the CA, you mentioned. Was the CA significant on the Tract compared to other scopes? I saw that you didn’t rate that factor against the others…

I did rate CA, maybe you missed but here's the section:

• CA – another hotly debated topic is chromatic aberration which is typically seen at the edges between high and low contrast objects in what is termed as fringing and usually comes in a band of color along the green/yellow and magenta/purple spectrum, some are greatly annoyed by this optical anomaly while others insist they cannot see it, one thing to know is it has nothing to do with your ability to hit a target; however, Ilya has mentioned “It is not terribly critical for aiming, but it is important for observation and image fidelity during twilight before your eye transitions into scotopic vision.” This is one area where the Toric struggled a bit against some of its newer peers, Vortex has done the best job with their new PST II line IMO. CA can rear its ugly head even with some tier one optics, but seeing heavy CA in a $3k scope vs a $1k scope is very different and for its price point I found the Toric’s CA to be acceptable.
  Vortex PST II 3-15 => Vortex PST II 5-25 > Bushnell LRHS > Tract Toric = Burris XTR II > Sig Tango4

Again, perfectly acceptable for the price point of this scope in my opinion. Yes, the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS is no longer in production (GAP has a new LRHS2 4.5-18x44 but without illumination, great price though). Bushnell is about to introduce a new line of Elite Tacticals but no details... could be a light tactical offering but we have to wait and see.

 

[Glassaholic]

One other thought, @gr8fuldoug sells the Element Nexus 5-20x50 that is also made by LOW (same as Tract), yes the Nexus is only 5x on the low end but it has impressive FOV at 5x that comes close to the Tract at 4x and will have greater FOV from about 4.3x and up (rough estimate), the Nexus is 6 oz lighter and practically the same length. Might be worth checking out especially with Doug's 4th of July sale going on right now. I'd like to get my hands on a Nexus one of these days as I like budget scopes that punch above their class.

 

[Moose]

I just got my 2nd Nexus from cameraland and for the money it is a very nice scope.They are running a sale on them now.

 

[Big-Shooter]

@Glassaholic Thanks for the follow-up. I read all the text on CA, but somehow missed the rating at the end, thanks for pasting the info above! And, thanks for the suggestion to look into the Element Nexus as well!

@gr8fuldoug I just checked out the Nexus on the Cameraland website. Looks like only the center crosshairs are illuminated, is that correct?

 

[Big-Shooter]

@Glassaholic Have you done a review on the GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i? I’ve never seen a GPO scope before (or even heard of the brand until now), but this looks like another option that might check all the boxes for my needs. I would prefer something with a little less magnification at the low end, but would sacrifice ~1x on the low end if it brings the best overall value. The company overview on tge Cameraland site makes them sound like a high value option.

@gr8fuldoug Looks like the GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i is currently out-of-stock. Any idea when you will receive new inventory?

 

[4thandbleek]

I’ve used and shot through both. Either are exceptional scopes. You won’t go wrong with either. They’re both way to heavy in my opinion for a hunting gun but that’s just my preference.

 

[Moose]

The Nexus in MRAD the whole reticle lites up and in MOA the center only.Both of my scopes are in MRAD with the APR-1C reticle.

 

[Asiparks]

I have the Tango6 3-18 X44 in MRAD, picked up from Dvor about a year and a half ago for $850- I see them popping up for around $900-$950 regularly- The glass is very good, the whole reticle illumination is bright and crisp and the locking turrets click precisely between detents, although the push- pull mechanism feels a bit spongy. Levelplex works well too- I didn't think I'd use it much, but it's a quick way to ensure your vertical is perpendicular to the horizon if you're prone on uneven ground.

 

[charnicus]

Not one of your choices, but to echo Glassaholic, you can touch a Mk5 even a Mk6 rather close to your price range. Spend the time searching saving a couple extra bones.

 

[Proxemus]

I did rate CA, maybe you missed but here's the section:

• CA – another hotly debated topic is chromatic aberration which is typically seen at the edges between high and low contrast objects in what is termed as fringing and usually comes in a band of color along the green/yellow and magenta/purple spectrum, some are greatly annoyed by this optical anomaly while others insist they cannot see it, one thing to know is it has nothing to do with your ability to hit a target; however, Ilya has mentioned “It is not terribly critical for aiming, but it is important for observation and image fidelity during twilight before your eye transitions into scotopic vision.” This is one area where the Toric struggled a bit against some of its newer peers, Vortex has done the best job with their new PST II line IMO. CA can rear its ugly head even with some tier one optics, but seeing heavy CA in a $3k scope vs a $1k scope is very different and for its price point I found the Toric’s CA to be acceptable.
  Vortex PST II 3-15 => Vortex PST II 5-25 > Bushnell LRHS > Tract Toric = Burris XTR II > Sig Tango4

Again, perfectly acceptable for the price point of this scope in my opinion. Yes, the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS is no longer in production (GAP has a new LRHS2 4.5-18x44 but without illumination, great price though). Bushnell is about to introduce a new line of Elite Tacticals but no details... could be a light tactical offering but we have to wait and see.

You think pst ii is better then the lrts Glass? Uve had both these scopes for a very long time and I think that the glass in the lrts is muuuch better then the vortex. I've also had to use warrenty on the vortex 2x times and the bushnell I have not had to use it.

 

[RUTGERS95]

of those mentioned, I think only the Burris punches well above it's class and pricepoint. I don't think any of those mentioned have better glass, are going to be more durable and come at the most competitive pricepoint allowing more for ammo etc.. I'd seriously look at the xtr here

I would not even consider the pst and also agree with poster who said the bushnell lr is superior to the pst

 

[Proxemus]

of those mentioned, I think only the Burris punches well above it's class and pricepoint. I don't think any of those mentioned have better glass, are going to be more durable and come at the most competitive pricepoint allowing more for ammo etc.. I'd seriously look at the xtr here

I would not even consider the pst and also agree with poster who said the bushnell lr is superior to the pst

I agree the Burris xtr is a fantastic scope and a pretty good reticle only issue w it that I had was it's a bit on the hefty side of things. Especially if ur using it on a hunting rifle. For for glass quality I found it neck and neck with the ltrs. Both leagues above the pst ii

 

[RUTGERS95]

I agree the Burris xtr is a fantastic scope and a pretty good reticle only issue w it that I had was it's a bit on the hefty side of things. Especially if ur using it on a hunting rifle. For for glass quality I found it neck and neck with the ltrs. Both leagues above the pst ii

agree....very surprised how fond people are of the pst series. I like the company and their scopes but dollar for dollar, I've yet to find anything that is better than the burris and the ltrs absolutely punches above the belt as well and I'm not really a Bushnell guy either. very impressed

 

[Proxemus]

agree....very surprised how fond people are of the pst series. I like the company and their scopes but dollar for dollar, I've yet to find anything that is better than the burris and the ltrs absolutely punches above the belt as well and I'm not really a Bushnell guy either. very impressed

It's kinda funny cause I have 2 Schmidt and benders and a ltrs on my acr and I couldn't ask for more. I had a 5x25 xtrii it was good but the scope was physically to big for what I wanted on my acr haha. I had a pst ii 3-15 on my xcr and it just kept breaking. I think the breaking part over and over just left a sour taste in my mouth. And it's not like I dropped it on the scope or anything it was literally bench gun and in the back of my Audi in a cadex drag bag. Didn't even have a mark on it.

 

[Big-Shooter]

Looks like this thread is starting to go in a different direction, but I’m still curious to know if anyone has experience with the German Precision Optics GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i? The Independence Day sale at Cameraland puts a Steiner T5Xi (3-15x50 or 5-26x56) within a few hundred $$$ of my budget too, but (since nobody seems to sell Steiner around here either) it’s hard for me to justify increasing my budget by $500 when I don’t know what I would be getting for the extra $$$…

 

[RUTGERS95]

Looks like this thread is starting to go in a different direction, but I’m still curious to know if anyone has experience with the German Precision Optics GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i? The Independence Day sale at Cameraland puts a Steiner T5Xi (3-15x50 or 5-26x56) within a few hundred $$$ of my budget too, but (since nobody seems to sell Steiner around here either) it’s hard for me to justify increasing my budget by $500 when I don’t know what I would be getting for the extra $$$…

not really, look at your original message. You've been given alternatives and feedback. Go with what is known, used, has a track record is what I say.

good luck, always fun!

 

[Proxemus]

Looks like this thread is starting to go in a different direction, but I’m still curious to know if anyone has experience with the German Precision Optics GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i? The Independence Day sale at Cameraland puts a Steiner T5Xi (3-15x50 or 5-26x56) within a few hundred $$$ of my budget too, but (since nobody seems to sell Steiner around here either) it’s hard for me to justify increasing my budget by $500 when I don’t know what I would be getting for the extra $$$…

Ive asked about some gpo stuff but never looked through there stuff heard decent reviews but I don't think u can get a t5xi for even a little bit more. Like @RUTGERS95 said go with what is proven. Personally I'd go ltrs and next meopta optica. Both are solid and light. 3rd if u are OK w more weight. Xtrii.

 

[z71rat]

I would offer up another great scope suggestion… but I seem to get into trouble for voicing my opinions.

DK

 

[Big-Shooter]

@z71rat New options are always interesting! My comment about this thread going on a different direction above was simply because the last several posts had been focused primarily on just one model.

 

[Big-Shooter]

@Proxemus My original budget was $1000-$1200, but suggestions in this thread now have me looking at $1300 & $1400 scopes as well. The Steiner T5Xi can be found ~$1700 on sale right now, within $300-$400 of some of the Element, Meopta, GPO and other scopes mentioned here. But, I’m not sure exactly how far I can extend my budget, or if buying the Steiner would really be just paying for the brand…

 

[Asiparks]

slippery slope... if you can reason for the Steiner at $1700, then another $100-$150 would get you a preowned Kahles 624....And pre owned Razors can be had for less...

Ilya quite liked Brownell's MPO 3-18 at $899. I have the 5-30 version and have found it pretty good, but not as nice as the Tango6 5-30 which can be had for around $1100

 

[Glassaholic]

@Glassaholic Have you done a review on the GPOTAC 6X 4.5-27x50i? I’ve never seen a GPO scope before (or even heard of the brand until now), but this looks like another option that might check all the boxes for my needs. I would prefer something with a little less magnification at the low end, but would sacrifice ~1x on the low end if it brings the best overall value. The company overview on tge Cameraland site makes them sound like a high value option.

I have not. GPO hasn’t made anything that really excites me. Their TAC line seems to be interesting but looks like quick to market clones of similar scopes. As with a lot of scope manufacturers whose primary focus is hunting they just don’t seem to get the reticle. Having mrad or moa hash marks for wind is absolutely necessary IMO. Price has me concerned they are designed in Germany but made in China (Doug maybe you can confirm?)

 

[Glassaholic]

You think pst ii is better then the lrts Glass? Uve had both these scopes for a very long time and I think that the glass in the lrts is muuuch better then the vortex. I've also had to use warrenty on the vortex 2x times and the bushnell I have not had to use it.

Did you read my review? No, I do not rate the optical quality (with regard to resolution/IQ) of the PST II above the LRTS/LRHS, what you read above is my excerpt on CA which the PST II handles quite a bit better than the Bushnell LRTS/LRHS

 

[Glassaholic]

The Independence Day sale at Cameraland puts a Steiner T5Xi (3-15x50 or 5-26x56) within a few hundred $$$ of my budget too, but (since nobody seems to sell Steiner around here either) it’s hard for me to justify increasing my budget by $500 when I don’t know what I would be getting for the extra $$$…

I do not recommend Steiner’s T5Xi line. I had the 5-25 and 3-15 and both were some of the worst performing with regard to CA. HEAVY halo of yellow around edges. The XTR III is what the T5Xi should have been.

 

[Proxemus]

Did you read my review? No, I do not rate the optical quality (with regard to resolution/IQ) of the PST II above the LRTS/LRHS, what you read above is my excerpt on CA which the PST II handles quite a bit better than the Bushnell LRTS/LRHS

I have no clue which pst ii u were looking at but the 3 I've seen all looked identical and they matched the glass in my Nikon fx1000. And did not come close to the lrts. This may sound weird but I notice people who wear glasses perfer the pst ii over the lrts.

 

[Glassaholic]

I have no clue which pst ii u were looking at but the 3 I've seen all looked identical and they matched the glass in my Nikon fx1000. And did not come close to the lrts. This may sound weird but I notice people who wear glasses perfer the pst ii over the lrts.

Doesn't sound like you've read my review because you would know I had both the PST II 5-25 and PST II 3-15. I cannot tell you what your eyes see (many don't even see CA), but I can tell you what my eyes see and I clarify that in my review. For my eyes the PST II series scope handle CA the best of any budget ($1kish) scope, but there are many more components to image quality than just CA, and again I clarify that in the review, you'll notice that in other categories I do list the Toric and LRTS/LRHS above the PST II so I'm not quite sure why you seem adamant at making this point.

 

[Big-Shooter]

Thanks to everyone for your input! I’ve done a lot more research and narrowed the list down to 5 or 6 options. Unfortunately, after scope hunting again at several local shops (including some big box sporting goods stores) I still wasn’t able to get my hands on any of these, so I’m looking for one last round of advice.

My options are:
- Element Nexus 5-20x50 $1320 on sale (Specs similar to the Tract Toric 4-20, but bigger field of view and lighter. No locking turrets and less eye relief though.)
- Tract Toric 4-20x50 $900slightly used
(Similar to the Nexus, but with locking turrets. FOV is smaller and scope is heavy at 34 oz.)
- Tract Toric 4.5-30x56 $1300 slightly used. (Step up to 56mm obj lens increases FOV slightly, has locking turrets and nice reticle. Very heavy at 41 oz though.)
- Athlon Chronos BTR Gen2 4.5-29x56 $1435 on sale. (Specs out comparably to the Tract 4.5-30x56 and 5 oz lighter, but no locking turrets. Most expensive option for me.)
- Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 $1056 on sale. (Specs out comparably to the Chronos above, but has a locking windage turret. Cannot really see a difference in specs, so it must be in quality of glass and/or components.

Looking for a last round of advice to help me make a decision on one of these models, especially from owners of these models or people that have reviewed/sold them. (@Glassaholic @gr8fuldoug)

I also looked at and eliminated:
- Burris XTR2 $1150 (didn’t care for reticle options)
- Sig Tango6 3-18x44 ~$1200 (narrow FOV, some color washing, mixed reviews and no longer produced/cannot be replaced with same model under warranty.)
- GPOTAC 6x 4.5-27x50i $1320 on sale (Specs are similar to several of the scopes above and looks like a great design, but very little info is available about these scopes and it’s currently on back order…)

so, let’s have one final round of feedback on the Element Tract and Athlon’s. Thanks to all the Hide members for your insight/advice!

 

[RUTGERS95]

Im out, you're getting ridiculous

 

[Big-Shooter]

@RUTGERS95 I thought the purpose of this forum was to ask advice and share knowledge. No need to be rude, if you don’t want to read/share further knowledge, you don’t have to answer.

I will be the first to admit that I have little knowledge of rifle scopes, that’s why I’m asking advice.

 

[BCP]

This would be a good AR10 scope if it's still for sale

SOLD - Leupold Mark6 TMR 3-18x44

I’m selling my slightly used mark 6, $1400 delivered. The ADM mount and Texas red dirt are included.

www.snipershide.com