Suppressors AR15 Suppressor - Q Plan B capability

[kthomas]

In the near future I'll be picking up a suppressor dedicated to ar15's to compliment the Omega the wife and I have which will be converted to Q's Plan B mounting system.

I am completely new to suppressing ar15's, and wondering what people's thoughts are on the below suppressors that can take the Q Plan B, as an ar15 suppressor:

- SiCo Saker 556/K
- YHM Turbo/K
- Dead Air Nomad 30
- EA Vox/K
- Rex MG 7 K
- RMS Hopaii
- KG Made Rogue X
- Others???

The host rifles will be a KAC SR15 E3 Mod1 carbine (16") and Falkor Defense Caitlyn (16"), both in essentially stock configuration.

Since I don't currently own any ar15 suppressors, I don't really know what to look for in an ar15 suppressor. From all the tests I've seen, they all seem to meter very similarly at the ear, so I'm guessing gas management is a more important feature?

 

[kthomas]

The TDS Bantam II seems like an awesome can that I also considered, but seeing as it's direct thread, it would be much better on a dedicated rifle that will only be shot suppressed then a can that can be shared amongst rifles.

Impressive stats on it though.

 

[paco ramirez]

CGS Helios QD.

(not sure why it automatically embedded the videos)

Here it is on a 5.5" 7.62x39 firing in full auto and semi: and

And here it is on 10.5" MK18 doing a full auto mag dump:

It comes as a kit with a 1/2x28 direct thread mount, a 5/8x24 direct thread mount, a QD adapter which will work with any 1.375x24 Omega pattern mount, a standard front cap, and a vented front cap. The standard front cap allows it to work like a traditional silencer and the vented front cap allows it to work as an "out the front" vented silencer similar to OSS/TDS/NG2/MM/etc but better, just by changing the frong cap out. All the joints sit on shallow tapers and since it's DMLS 718 Inconel which is 3D printed, the silencer is perfectly concentric. And like all of our 5.56 silencers it has a 7.62 bore so it helps with backpressure and ear sound and also gives you some margin of error if your barrel's a bit nonconcentric.

It doesn’t have a minimum barrel length. The Helios QD silencer is pretty much impossible to kill by any conventional method. We’ve fired ~2300rds through one on a MK18, half with full auto 30rd mag dumps and the other half semi auto and then did ten 30rd mags in a row full auto and five 30rd mags in a row full auto as fast as the mags could be changed, all of those ~2300rds being fired over only maybe 3hrs. Then we took it to the NFA Review shoot. We’ve been doing 200rd belts through them with a SAW to the point the barrel droops. Then shot it more when it cooled.

 

[kthomas]

CGS Helios QD.

(not sure why it automatically embedded the videos)

Here it is on a 5.5" 7.62x39 firing in full auto and semi: and

And here it is on 10.5" MK18 doing a full auto mag dump:

It comes as a kit with a 1/2x28 direct thread mount, a 5/8x24 direct thread mount, a QD adapter which will work with any 1.375x24 Omega pattern mount, a standard front cap, and a vented front cap. The standard front cap allows it to work like a traditional silencer and the vented front cap allows it to work as an "out the front" vented silencer similar to OSS/TDS/NG2/MM/etc but better, just by changing the frong cap out. All the joints sit on shallow tapers and since it's DMLS 718 Inconel which is 3D printed, the silencer is perfectly concentric. And like all of our 5.56 silencers it has a 7.62 bore so it helps with backpressure and ear sound and also gives you some margin of error if your barrel's a bit nonconcentric.

It doesn’t have a minimum barrel length. The Helios QD silencer is pretty much impossible to kill by any conventional method. We’ve fired ~2300rds through one on a MK18, half with full auto 30rd mag dumps and the other half semi auto and then did ten 30rd mags in a row full auto and five 30rd mags in a row full auto as fast as the mags could be changed, all of those ~2300rds being fired over only maybe 3hrs. Then we took it to the NFA Review shoot. We’ve been doing 200rd belts through them with a SAW to the point the barrel droops. Then shot it more when it cooled.

That seems like a really nice suppressor, I'm definitely intrigued.

 

[5RWill]

For the money i don't think anything comes close to YHM. With plan B the Turbo K is 4.8" in length brings 11.5" 5.56 in the 139/140db range and is short as hell. Resonator K has solid readings from a K can too on a 16" 5.56 and by all indications is going to be just like the Turbo K in that it punches well above it's volume considering it's size. If you want full size 5.56 the Turbo T2 is also a great offering especially now that all of YHM's cans are 1-3/8ths thread spec so you can use Plan B. I'm using Plan A myself. The only real downside would be if you're looking for the lightest possible can given the criteria, in which there is only one solution to me and that's TBAC.

Currently we own a TBAC 30CB9, Omega, Hybrid, and i've got a Turbo K and Resonator K on file. And will be using the resonator K on the 7 SS come next hunting season. My train of thought has now shifted to YHM for everything less budget allows for the gold standard which to me is TBAC. If i'm not looking to drop $1000+ on a can there is nothing for me personally that any other can does that YHM's offerings don't and at the given price point it's not even a comparison anymore. That's not to disparage the other manufacturers, but YHM's current baffle designs are proving to be formidable in almost every aspect. They meter very well, especially the K cans, and the end user reports almost always seem to be astonished at the tone when said K cans are on SBR setups, which is amazing.

The thing about "silencing/suppressing" 5.56 is that it's inherently hard to do so due to port noise. My ears can't tell the difference in 136db and 139db despite it being logarithmic and outside of hunting i will also always have ears on. I've continually gone down in size with each progressive can purchase because i absolutely hate the added length that comes with a 9" can. I can't stand how suppressing said weapon makes it cumbersome as hell. Prime example is when dad and I went out to shoot some hogs in the rice field one night. I had the hybrid on the 8.3" blackout and the omega on my mid length 16" this is the omega with the hellfire adapter and Ti endcap and it still felt like a javelin. Which brings me full circle pointing at the Turbo K all over again. It fits perfect in a full size carbine roll and then some given how well it does on the SBR setups. Honestly i'd snag a Turbo K and a resonator K like i've already done or maybe even just two resonator Ks for versatility.

 

[just browsing]

Gas management is much more important in my experience than the can itself.

I’ve run an Ultra 7, Omega, and a Surefire SOCOM 5.56 on my custom Caitlyn with little noticeable difference. The Ultra and Omega were comparable - quieter and lighter than the the 5.56, but much more gassy.

Having shot and tuned each of them, I would highly recommend an adjustable block AND adjustable carrier (Bootleg, Gemtech, etc.). The AGB is a must at the very least but the carrier makes it much easier to tune.

Fwiw I leave the Omega on it vast majority of the time but all of them make it more enjoyable to shoot over brake.

 

[RyanScott]

Just get the mounting system you really want and don’t worry about other things so much. KAC followed by Surefire have the best mounting systems. I also am partial to Allen Engineering. Adding threads all over a can is just more stuff to fail.

 

[kthomas]

Just get the mounting system you really want and don’t worry about other things so much. KAC followed by Surefire have the best mounting systems. I also am partial to Allen Engineering. Adding threads all over a can is just more stuff to fail.

I've already invested in the Q Plan B system with cherry bombs, so I guess that's the mount I'll be sticking with.

Would love to have a KAC suppressor for the KAC rifle - it already has a triple tap brake so I'm already setup to accept the NT4 suppressor. However, I don't have disposable cash like I used to, and spending ~$1500 on an NT4 (if I could even find one), probably wouldn't be the wisest use of money at this time. I guess as @TheGerman says, I'll go be poor somewhere else

 

[kthomas]

Gas management is much more important in my experience than the can itself.

I’ve run an Ultra 7, Omega, and a Surefire SOCOM 5.56 on my custom Caitlyn with little noticeable difference. The Ultra and Omega were comparable - quieter and lighter than the the 5.56, but much more gassy.

Having shot and tuned each of them, I would highly recommend an adjustable block AND adjustable carrier (Bootleg, Gemtech, etc.). The AGB is a must at the very least but the carrier makes it much easier to tune.

Fwiw I leave the Omega on it vast majority of the time but all of them make it more enjoyable to shoot over brake.

I figured I would have to go adjustable gas block, haven't looked much into the adjustable gas carriers, I'll do some reading up on those as well.

I'll shoot the rifles first without making any upgrades and see how it is to shoot. But I fully plan on having to make some modifications, at least to the Caitlyn. Reading up on suppressing KAC's, KAC reps online say that their guns are perfect as is, they've already works and what doesn't, they don't seem to like people modifying their guns

I love KAC, but I thought it was a bit bold of them to indicate that their systems need absolute zero modifications for shooting suppressed.

 

[kthomas]

For the money i don't think anything comes close to YHM. With plan B the Turbo K is 4.8" in length brings 11.5" 5.56 in the 139/140db range and is short as hell. Resonator K has solid readings from a K can too on a 16" 5.56 and by all indications is going to be just like the Turbo K in that it punches well above it's volume considering it's size. If you want full size 5.56 the Turbo T2 is also a great offering especially now that all of YHM's cans are 1-3/8ths thread spec so you can use Plan B. I'm using Plan A myself. The only real downside would be if you're looking for the lightest possible can given the criteria, in which there is only one solution to me and that's TBAC.

Currently we own a TBAC 30CB9, Omega, Hybrid, and i've got a Turbo K and Resonator K on file. And will be using the resonator K on the 7 SS come next hunting season. My train of thought has now shifted to YHM for everything less budget allows for the gold standard which to me is TBAC. If i'm not looking to drop $1000+ on a can there is nothing for me personally that any other can does that YHM's offerings don't and at the given price point it's not even a comparison anymore. That's not to disparage the other manufacturers, but YHM's current baffle designs are proving to be formidable in almost every aspect. They meter very well, especially the K cans, and the end user reports almost always seem to be astonished at the tone when said K cans are on SBR setups, which is amazing.

The thing about "silencing/suppressing" 5.56 is that it's inherently hard to do so due to port noise. My ears can't tell the difference in 136db and 139db despite it being logarithmic and outside of hunting i will also always have ears on. I've continually gone down in size with each progressive can purchase because i absolutely hate the added length that comes with a 9" can. I can't stand how suppressing said weapon makes it cumbersome as hell. Prime example is when dad and I went out to shoot some hogs in the rice field one night. I had the hybrid on the 8.3" blackout and the omega on my mid length 16" this is the omega with the hellfire adapter and Ti endcap and it still felt like a javelin. Which brings me full circle pointing at the Turbo K all over again. It fits perfect in a full size carbine roll and then some given how well it does on the SBR setups. Honestly i'd snag a Turbo K and a resonator K like i've already done or maybe even just two resonator Ks for versatility.

View attachment 7252768

Those YHM's seem to punch way above their weight class. Lots of value there, which for me is important, especially since I will be going on a "career transition" soon.

 

[RyanScott]

I use a KAC CQB suppressor on a KAC 11.5 and it requires no modifications to switch between suppressed and unsuppressed.

 

[kthomas]

I use a KAC CQB suppressor on a KAC 11.5 and it requires no modifications to switch between suppressed and unsuppressed.

That's excellent news. KAC makes a quality product, I have more faith that they would design an ar15 in such a way that it would function reliably in multiple different conditions and configurations.

I love my KAC carbine. Wish I could afford to pair it with a KAC suppressor.

 

[LeadZeke]

@paco ramirez

and the vented front cap allows it to work as an "out the front" vented silencer similar to OSS/TDS/NG2/MM/etc but better

In what way is it better than those suppressors, especially the OSS? I'm specifically curious about the back pressure as that is those cans claims to fame. Does your Helios can (with the flow through end cap) keep carrier and unlock speed about the same as when unsuppressed as OSS claims their cans do (or get close to)? KAC says their new flow-through design cans do, but no one has tested them yet.

Speaking of testing, any chance we'll see the Helios and/or Hyperion metered properly soon? And will there be a 7.62x51 oriented QD can like the Helios that can also do flow through, or since the QD Helios already has a .36cal bore is it also meant for AR10s?

 

[paco ramirez]

@paco ramirez



In what way is it better than those suppressors, especially the OSS? I'm specifically curious about the back pressure as that is those cans claims to fame. Does your Helios can (with the flow through end cap) keep carrier and unlock speed about the same as when unsuppressed as OSS claims their cans do (or get close to)? KAC says their new flow-through design cans do, but no one has tested them yet.

Speaking of testing, any chance we'll see the Helios and/or Hyperion metered properly soon? And will there be a 7.62x51 oriented QD can like the Helios that can also do flow through, or since the QD Helios already has a .36cal bore is it also meant for AR10s?

The Helios QD is way stronger than all of those silencers I listed, including OSS, and it gives you the option to use it as either a traditional silencer or as a flow bypass silencer just by changing out the front cap. No one elses silencer is capable of changing functions, and that feature combined with the 7.62mm bore size essentially makes it a very versatile multi-role silencer that can replace most everything up to and including 338 Norma Mag/338 Lapua Mag if the barrel threads and shoulder are confirmed concentric. Using the vented front cap on the Helios QD, it will do all the same stuff people buy OSS and similar silencers for, and yes that includes maintaining the default carrier velocity, gas blow back, not having to change parts, good for overgassed hosts, etc.

It's also quieter in both configurations depending on which location you want it to be quieter and can have future front caps installed which will hide peripheral flash from the outer vents along with more options later down the road making the front section and rear section future proof. The Helios QD also allows the user to make the silencer compatible with whatever Omega pattern 1.375x24 QD mount they choose, or just keep it in the direct thread configuration without having an extra length penalty other companies silencers have in the DT configuration due to their permanent Omega pattern compatibility. By using shallow taper interfaces at all junctions it will seal up really well and ensures the joints won't come loose during use.

As far as sound testing, we had sent Ray from TBAC a Hyperion a while back but I'm not sure if they still have it and I'm not sure if we sent up a Helios QD yet. Hansohn Bros has a Hyperion and I think we have a Helios QD on the way to them so maybe they'll get to metering those eventually.

The Helios QD is meant for whatever you can fit through the bore hole with proper clearance, including 7.62mm and 300 Norma Mag and as said previously up to 338 Norma Mag if the barrel threads and shoulder are checked and confirmed concentric to the bore. The .36" dimension is just the smallest aperture, it tapers out to .375" as it goes forward.

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

Just get the mounting system you really want and don’t worry about other things so much. KAC followed by Surefire have the best mounting systems. I also am partial to Allen Engineering. Adding threads all over a can is just more stuff to fail.

Threads are far less likely to fail than latches.

 

[LeadZeke]

@paco ramirez

Wow those are some pretty amazing claims (which I see no reason to doubt). Really looking forward to seeing it tested. In conjuction with your anti-build up internal coating the Helios really looks like one of the best options out there for SHTF or similar uses, among others. It would be great to see the Helios QD on high speed cam vs. the OSS for carrier speed in addition to the flash/sound tests.

I notice the weight of the can is 19oz though, which is pretty heavy. I assume that is without any mount? So adding keymo would make it more like...24oz not counting the brake mount? Any plans to make a version of the can from titanium to drop the weight down?

 

[RyanScott]

Threads are far less likely to fail than latches.

that’s not been my experience.

 

[paco ramirez]

@paco ramirez

Wow those are some pretty amazing claims (which I see no reason to doubt). Really looking forward to seeing it tested. In conjuction with your anti-build up internal coating the Helios really looks like one of the best options out there for SHTF or similar uses, among others. It would be great to see the Helios QD on high speed cam vs. the OSS for carrier speed in addition to the flash/sound tests.

I notice the weight of the can is 19oz though, which is pretty heavy. I assume that is without any mount? So adding keymo would make it more like...24oz not counting the brake mount? Any plans to make a version of the can from titanium to drop the weight down?

Maybe someone will make a high speed video but that's not really necessary. Vented gas will prevent carrier velocity increase, especially when done in a more direct way than OSS. Out the front vented silencers have been around since at least 1910, and using coaxial space with a spiral in a front vented silencer has been around since at least 1919/1927. Using multiple layers and sending gas back and forth has been around since at least 1925. It's not the new technology OSS likes to tell people it is.

The Helios QD is a hard use silencer. Hard use silencers are heavier than these mid grade cans like an Omega 300 or similar stuff in the ~14-18oz range.

Some other examples all listed without their corresponding muzzle devices: A Surefire 556RC2 is 17oz and the 762RC2 is 19.5oz. A Saker 556 ASR is 16.7oz and the 762 version is 23.4oz, the Chimera is 20.1oz. A Rugged Surge is 21.5oz and a Razor is 15.3oz. An OSS Helix 556 is 17.6oz and the 762 version is 19.3oz. The Dead Air Nomad is 14oz and the Nomad L is 18.3oz, the Sandman S is 17.7oz and the Sandman L is 21.8oz. The KAC QDC 556 is 16.7oz and the 762 version is 20.8oz. The Griffin Recce 7 is 17.5oz. The AAC 762SDN6 is 19.85oz and the 762SD is 23.2oz. The YHM Resonator R2 is 16oz. The SIG SRD762QD is 17oz.

The Helios QD core is only 16.5oz and you add whatever else you want to that to get a final weight. Last I saw the 19oz was in direct thread config. I'll make a chart at some point depicting lengths and weight of various configurations. Titanium parts at the front and rear may be a future offering.

 

[LeadZeke]

Ah makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying! At 16.5oz for the core + adding on whatever QD setup you want that makes it way more competitive on weight you are correct. I'd love to see that chart if you get a chance to make it for sure. I understand the Helios QD can withstand belt-fed which is awesome, but yeah I think for the vast majority of us something with Titanium up front to drop some OZ and still be mag-dump-able would be ideal.

Thanks for all the info Paco, sounds like this will be my next can, and I think OP should give it a really hard look as well.

 

[paco ramirez]

Ah makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying! At 16.5oz for the core + adding on whatever QD setup you want that makes it way more competitive on weight you are correct. I'd love to see that chart if you get a chance to make it for sure. I understand the Helios QD can withstand belt-fed which is awesome, but yeah I think for the vast majority of us something with Titanium up front to drop some OZ and still be mag-dump-able would be ideal.

Thanks for all the info Paco, sounds like this will be my next can, and I think OP should give it a really hard look as well.

Titanium isn't the material for mag dumps regardless of how people try to market it. As a material is has limitations, such as how it shouldn't be taken over 800 deg F, which is easy to do when mag dumping. If it goes over that limit then it'll still suffer damage and wear. You can sure mag dump it if you like wearing your silencer out though.

Helios QD can definitely do belt fed:

 

[SilencedShooter11B]

that’s not been my experience.

Well, threads are threads. Unless you cross thread them, and that’s user error versus a failure. Latches on the other hand have a multitude of ways to fail depending on the design.

 

[RyanScott]

Threads unthread. I like to keep them to a minimum.

 

[Jeffgray1]

For the money i don't think anything comes close to YHM. With plan B the Turbo K is 4.8" in length brings 11.5" 5.56 in the 139/140db range and is short as hell. Resonator K has solid readings from a K can too on a 16" 5.56 and by all indications is going to be just like the Turbo K in that it punches well above it's volume considering it's size. If you want full size 5.56 the Turbo T2 is also a great offering especially now that all of YHM's cans are 1-3/8ths thread spec so you can use Plan B. I'm using Plan A myself. The only real downside would be if you're looking for the lightest possible can given the criteria, in which there is only one solution to me and that's TBAC.

Currently we own a TBAC 30CB9, Omega, Hybrid, and i've got a Turbo K and Resonator K on file. And will be using the resonator K on the 7 SS come next hunting season. My train of thought has now shifted to YHM for everything less budget allows for the gold standard which to me is TBAC. If i'm not looking to drop $1000+ on a can there is nothing for me personally that any other can does that YHM's offerings don't and at the given price point it's not even a comparison anymore. That's not to disparage the other manufacturers, but YHM's current baffle designs are proving to be formidable in almost every aspect. They meter very well, especially the K cans, and the end user reports almost always seem to be astonished at the tone when said K cans are on SBR setups, which is amazing.

The thing about "silencing/suppressing" 5.56 is that it's inherently hard to do so due to port noise. My ears can't tell the difference in 136db and 139db despite it being logarithmic and outside of hunting i will also always have ears on. I've continually gone down in size with each progressive can purchase because i absolutely hate the added length that comes with a 9" can. I can't stand how suppressing said weapon makes it cumbersome as hell. Prime example is when dad and I went out to shoot some hogs in the rice field one night. I had the hybrid on the 8.3" blackout and the omega on my mid length 16" this is the omega with the hellfire adapter and Ti endcap and it still felt like a javelin. Which brings me full circle pointing at the Turbo K all over again. It fits perfect in a full size carbine roll and then some given how well it does on the SBR setups. Honestly i'd snag a Turbo K and a resonator K like i've already done or maybe even just two resonator Ks for versatility.

View attachment 7252768

Have you tried the plan b on any of your tbac cans? I have an ultra 7 that I’d like to run on a cherry bomb for my 300blk.

 

[thorium]

Tbac doesn’t have 1.375x24 modular mounting to accept a Plan B