No, usually the first conical ring and the barloc stay where they are and the only things that come off are the last conical ring and barrel
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ARC Shouldered BarLoc review
- Thread starter blbennett1288
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No, usually the first conical ring and the barloc stay where they are and the only things that come off are the last conical ring and barrel
I'll find them prettier when they are attached to actions and we're doing final assembly. Right now they represent a lot of work that's sitting cuz The Man hasn't approved the papers.
A bit off topic, but has anyone gotten the barrel nut version bar-loc? Im wondering what the install process looks like since there is no hard stop. Set the headspace off of the go gauge, but after that, the barrel nut will have alot of leeway as to how tight it should be screwed against the barloc (essentially the barrel nut is a moveable shoulder). Is it just something you have to be consistent about i.e. do a half turn once the nut contacts the barloc, then torque the barloc screw? Is there a desired spacing gap b/w the barloc halves that must be reached before torquing the screw - therefore a caliper or feeler guages are needed as well? Am i over thinking this?
With the supplied spanner wrench, you tighten the barrel nut until the split collar is wide enough to fit the wrench in. The you torque the split collar screw.
So yes, you are consistently tightening the barrel nut then torquing down the clamp screw.
So yes, you are consistently tightening the barrel nut then torquing down the clamp screw.
So is it possible to change barrels with the action still in the stock/chassis?
I think you could, yes. Your scope most likely will have to be removed to give you room to work, and all my actions have integral lugs so I don't know how much of a hassle it might be to line that up right.
I have one with a barrel nut. Ted spoke about the procedure in one of his videos. What I've done is put the go gauge in the chamber and screw until you just barely feel it making contact with the go gauge. Then screw the barrel nut down until it makes contact with the barloc. ARC provides a 1/2 wrench that kind of hooks onto the barrel nut and you can torque until the barloc separates with the action in the chassis. Then torque the hex screw down to 90 in lbs. Ted estimated that if you followed this procedure, the force of the barloc would give you go gauge + .002 headspace (that was speculation in his video though).
It is possible to do this procedure with the action in the chassis and with the scope on. The caveats are that with the scope on you can't get the wrench into the separation on the barloc to check the spacing, but after you do it a couple times you'll know how much force it needs. Also, for me, the bell on the scope kind of traps the barloc in the chassis so it can't be removed when the barrel comes off (not that you need to).
Also, one note is that Ted also mentioned in one of his videos that the hex screws should be treated as disposable. I ordered a couple of boxes from mcmaster carr. They're really cheap. Ted gives specifics on the screws in his video. If you put a little lube on the threads when you screw it in, you should get more consistent tension.
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What is everyone using for a torque wrench? I have a borka adjustable kit that works great in the field, but it only hits 85 in/lb. I can't find any compact wrench that hits 90, and one big plus of the barloc for me is barrel change in the field - not ideal conditions to carry a 12"-15" long wrench.
I purchased Fix-It sticks with the 80in-lbs limiter. I have not found a good field usable alternative that is 90 in-lbs.
I've had several Precision Torque Limiters (PTLs), originally preset to 95 inch-lbs. (For Ruger 77/XX action screws.) Recently, we sold like 4-5 of them, which we re-calibrated to 90 inch-lbs. per customers request, and I have a couple left, I believe... We can easily have a bunch of PTLs in 90 inch-lbs. made, to support this ARC spec, if there is enough interest in 90 inch-lbs. PTLs.
Boris
Borka Tools
Boris
Borka Tools
Placed an order for PTL090K this morning. I will be returning the Fix It Sticks 80 in-lbs limiter
Update: Both remaining PTL090K (90 inch-lbs.) were purchased today, so I do not have any more of PTL090Ks in stock. While this kit appears to be in certain demand, it is still difficult for me to estimate the scale of such demand, which is an important metric for business decision.
But we can certainly have more of them made, if I see posts or related e-mails from interested SH members.
3 positive replies here and 2 e-mails to Borka, related to the need to keep offering PTL90K, in such relatively short period of time, looks statistically promising. So, more PTL090Ks will be coming this year.
The only question remains - how much more, and I think I know how to figure it out...
Please do me a favor and send a very brief e-mail reg. your interest in PTL090K to:
[email protected]
I will then create a list of potential customers for this kit, so when PTL090Ks are back in stock, I could inform all of you right away.
Thanks!
Boris
Borka Tools
The only question remains - how much more, and I think I know how to figure it out...
Please do me a favor and send a very brief e-mail reg. your interest in PTL090K to:
[email protected]
I will then create a list of potential customers for this kit, so when PTL090Ks are back in stock, I could inform all of you right away.
Thanks!
Boris
Borka Tools
I got a good number of e-mails reg. interest in PTL090K, and all of these e-mails are saved to compile a list. I'm now working to have more of PTL090Ks as soon as possible.
Actually, what we having here is some kind of "Group Buy" event, except that when I've run GBs in the past, I've been ready to ship relatively fast because I've had a product for immediate delivery. This time is a little bit different, I have to wait for the product to be delivered to me first... But concept is the same - to inform people on the list when product is available...
Question for:
CavScout85
SuperSneakySnip
Afkirby
Gentlemen, did you also send your e-mails to [email protected] ?
If you did not, please do so. Keeping all info in one place, specifically in my e-mail based database, is a lot better for reliable notification of product availability.
Thanks very much to everybody.
Boris
Actually, what we having here is some kind of "Group Buy" event, except that when I've run GBs in the past, I've been ready to ship relatively fast because I've had a product for immediate delivery. This time is a little bit different, I have to wait for the product to be delivered to me first... But concept is the same - to inform people on the list when product is available...
Question for:
CavScout85
SuperSneakySnip
Afkirby
Gentlemen, did you also send your e-mails to [email protected] ?
If you did not, please do so. Keeping all info in one place, specifically in my e-mail based database, is a lot better for reliable notification of product availability.
Thanks very much to everybody.
Boris
Update, June 29th:
I've approved production specifications for PTL090K and a number of new PTLs with different torque settings, to further expand our PTL product line. Production will start early next week.
When I have PTL090K units in stock, I'll inform all interested SH members by e-mail.
Thanks very much,
Boris
Borka Tools
I've approved production specifications for PTL090K and a number of new PTLs with different torque settings, to further expand our PTL product line. Production will start early next week.
When I have PTL090K units in stock, I'll inform all interested SH members by e-mail.
Thanks very much,
Boris
Borka Tools
Here's my 20 rounds worth.
M5 Mausingfield
Brux 1:8 twist 6.5 Creedmoor (Saami chamber), 21" long #4 contour
Shouldered Barloc
SRT Arms magnum Ti suppressor
147gr Hornady factory match ammo
100yd indoor tunnel off bags
First I fired a 6 round group (lost count and fired an extra round). Then I removed the barrel and replaced it via sharpie index lines on either side of the stock show-line. Torqued the barloc hand tight with an allen wrench (sorry, no torque wrench here). Fired a 4 shot group. Removed and replaced the barrel, and fired the final 5-shot group on the right side of the target. POA for all three was the center of the square.
Then I put 1 mil left on the scope, and fired the remaining 5 rounds with variable torque on the barloc screw (same POA). The first round was with just enough torque to prevent the barrel from spinning freely. From there I gave each successive shot what I presumed to be about 1/5th increase to a "normal" final torque value (5th shot).
So it would seem that variable torque may slightly change POI, but it doesn't seem drastic in my case. I attribute the POI shift from the removing of the barrel more to indexing of threads/parts than torque value. Changing torque doesn't appear to help accuracy any-- not sure if #2 is a flier or not. About 0.5 mil spread, center to center of the 3 groups.
M5 Mausingfield
Brux 1:8 twist 6.5 Creedmoor (Saami chamber), 21" long #4 contour
Shouldered Barloc
SRT Arms magnum Ti suppressor
147gr Hornady factory match ammo
100yd indoor tunnel off bags
First I fired a 6 round group (lost count and fired an extra round). Then I removed the barrel and replaced it via sharpie index lines on either side of the stock show-line. Torqued the barloc hand tight with an allen wrench (sorry, no torque wrench here). Fired a 4 shot group. Removed and replaced the barrel, and fired the final 5-shot group on the right side of the target. POA for all three was the center of the square.
Then I put 1 mil left on the scope, and fired the remaining 5 rounds with variable torque on the barloc screw (same POA). The first round was with just enough torque to prevent the barrel from spinning freely. From there I gave each successive shot what I presumed to be about 1/5th increase to a "normal" final torque value (5th shot).
So it would seem that variable torque may slightly change POI, but it doesn't seem drastic in my case. I attribute the POI shift from the removing of the barrel more to indexing of threads/parts than torque value. Changing torque doesn't appear to help accuracy any-- not sure if #2 is a flier or not. About 0.5 mil spread, center to center of the 3 groups.
Another 10 rounds worth. Took the barrel off last night to see if I could keep the action mounted in the stock while I change between my 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 SAUM barrels, put it back on, went out this afternoon to an outdoor 100yd range and fired these 10. No change in zero on the scope from the previous 3 above.
Been playing with my Barloc and Nucleus. Did a few quick videos and they are in the Nucleus Video thread I started.
Here are two videos showing assembly of the barrel with Barloc… I have played with it a few times, so maybe there is some stuff to help the learning curve for others. It gets much faster and easier after you mess with it. I think it can be pretty repeatable. I didn't think I would use it as a switch barrel, but with more hands on, I think the idea is growing on me.
Here are two videos showing assembly of the barrel with Barloc… I have played with it a few times, so maybe there is some stuff to help the learning curve for others. It gets much faster and easier after you mess with it. I think it can be pretty repeatable. I didn't think I would use it as a switch barrel, but with more hands on, I think the idea is growing on me.
Good videos. I turned the tennon on that CM barrel so that when the shoulder makes contact with a "loose" barloc, it's basically on a GO gauge, then I marked witness lines to verify. At that point the center ring can be rotated to where I want it, then tighten down the screw.
This is my explanation of how it would work, but I didn't have a shouldered barrel.
Until you get a video, the only big difference from my videos will be tightening the barrel to open up the slot in the top of the Barloc collar. And, instead of the barrel nut having the cone, the barrel will either need the cone cut into the shoulder, or ARC sends a coned washer for the barrel side of the collar. The other side is the recoil lug.
Found this *.PDF on ARC's website for shouldered barrel install. Looks like you need 2 cone/chamfered rings (conical washers), with the torque clamp lock ring (split collar) in the middle.
Not sure if it's for the NUCLEUS, Mausungfield or both.
I'm guessing for both since there's an option for with or without recoil lug. Mausungfield is integrated lug and Nucleus is separate?
Not sure if it's for the NUCLEUS, Mausungfield or both.
I'm guessing for both since there's an option for with or without recoil lug. Mausungfield is integrated lug and Nucleus is separate?
you use two conical washers with and without recoil lug versions
hereinaz/anyone,
Seems like the Savage style barrel witj battel nut is more common than the shouldered style.
I'm leaning towards the shouldered with Barloc and Nucleus. Are there any other barrel manufacturers (besides PVA) that make shouldered barrel replacements? Looking to do a 6.5 PRC
Seems like the Savage style barrel witj battel nut is more common than the shouldered style.
I'm leaning towards the shouldered with Barloc and Nucleus. Are there any other barrel manufacturers (besides PVA) that make shouldered barrel replacements? Looking to do a 6.5 PRC
LRI might be doing a shouldered.
And, my favorite barrel, Proof Research carbon fiber is available as a Savage prefit in 6.5 PRC. I have bought so many, I have a source I can get you a very cheap barrel. PM me if you are interested.
I think you can get a recoil lug for the shouldered barrel Barloc. I know one came with my generic Barloc. In the regular Barloc version, non Nucleus, I got a barrel nut, collar, ring and recoil lug. I guess they do that so that you can use it on something like a Savage or a custom with an integral recoil lug. I don't know what comes in the box, but it is likely enough to cover whatever action you have.
Moral of the story is you need a conical section on either side of the barloc. Whether it's a ring, a barrel nut, a recoil lug, etc... does not matter. You could use two Nucleus recoil lugs in between a non-barloc savage barrel nut and your receiver if you had enough threads (ridiculous example, just because you can doesn't mean anyone should/would)....
You don't *have* to torque the barrel nut on the savage prefit version before you torque the screw on the barloc, but it obviously does come recommended from ARC. I have done it several times where I will screw the barrel in to headspace, spin the barrel nut to make contact with the barloc, then simply tighten the screw without torquing the barrel nut. Barrel stays on, zero holds, etc... HOWEVER, I have noticed that you can shift POI around by indexing the barrel nut in different positions (i.e. if you torque the nut one time, but not the next, you're likely to have a very different zero). Torquing the barrel nut first may help with this aspect.
As far as I'm aware there are 2 typical variations of the barloc, each with a "Nuclues" variation.
1) "Shouldered" with a tapered ring on either side of the barloc
1a) "Nucleus Shouldered" with a tapered ring on the front and a Nucleus 'barloc lug' on the rear
2) "Barrel nut" with a barrel nut in the front and tapered ring in the rear
2a) "Nucleus barrel nut" with a barrel nut in the front and a Nucleus 'barloc lug' in the rear.
Bear in mind, 1 and 2 can be used on a Nucleus that has a flat "non- barloc" lug, too. Likewise you can modify existing savage barrel nuts with a 30 degree taper to fit the barloc vs. the ARC nut. Theoretically you could surface machine or lathe turn the face of a receiver (Bighorn, M5, etc..) to build in a tapered ring on the face, and that would work, too-- although it would be a pretty permanent modification.
You don't *have* to torque the barrel nut on the savage prefit version before you torque the screw on the barloc, but it obviously does come recommended from ARC. I have done it several times where I will screw the barrel in to headspace, spin the barrel nut to make contact with the barloc, then simply tighten the screw without torquing the barrel nut. Barrel stays on, zero holds, etc... HOWEVER, I have noticed that you can shift POI around by indexing the barrel nut in different positions (i.e. if you torque the nut one time, but not the next, you're likely to have a very different zero). Torquing the barrel nut first may help with this aspect.
As far as I'm aware there are 2 typical variations of the barloc, each with a "Nuclues" variation.
1) "Shouldered" with a tapered ring on either side of the barloc
1a) "Nucleus Shouldered" with a tapered ring on the front and a Nucleus 'barloc lug' on the rear
2) "Barrel nut" with a barrel nut in the front and tapered ring in the rear
2a) "Nucleus barrel nut" with a barrel nut in the front and a Nucleus 'barloc lug' in the rear.
Bear in mind, 1 and 2 can be used on a Nucleus that has a flat "non- barloc" lug, too. Likewise you can modify existing savage barrel nuts with a 30 degree taper to fit the barloc vs. the ARC nut. Theoretically you could surface machine or lathe turn the face of a receiver (Bighorn, M5, etc..) to build in a tapered ring on the face, and that would work, too-- although it would be a pretty permanent modification.
You want the "plain" shouldered barloc--->> Two tapered rings.
The recoil lug for the Nucleus may/may not fit with your Bighorn, but it will have the indexing nub at 12 o'clock that will not key into the Origin's scope rail. At best it looks goofy, at worst it will inhibit the mounting of a scope rail.
I had been following ARC directions, but I will have to take a look at the best practice to return to zero, closest. Good to know.
Yes, cone\collar\cone in whatever configuration.
