Are gps units outdated or needed for non mil?

[bohica17]

Was looking into getting another gps, but with the built in location services and onX hunt is there really a need for the average hunter/hiker? I have used onX for years. Me and some buddies hunted AEP land in Ohio for spring turkey last year and will be again this year. onX app was flawless even with shitty cell service. Should I invest in a gps unit for hunting and scouting anymore? Plan on a elk trip in the near future but can’t find a reason to buy one because the iPhone is killing it at the moment.

 

[b6graham]

i plan to elk hunt in CO this year and will have an inreach capable gps

sat communication. battery life.

i'll still have a phone with onX and a solar charger. but wont rely on them for comms

 

[Fig]

This. I have seen a dozen people go into the back country trying to use their phone and got totally lost, and have had it happen to one idiot in my elk hunting party. He dropped five grand of altitude looking at his stupid phone trying to find a camp that was at the same altitude he started. My first question was, "Didn't you know something was wrong when you started going down, down, down?" "Hey Brah, I was looking at my phone!" It's just stupid, but then again I'm the guy who thinks going with JUST a GPS and no map and compass is stupid.

I've actually been made fun of for having laminated topo maps and a compass by a moron using his phone.

Get the GPS, but also have a compass and a laminated topo of the area in which you are hunting. It doesn't have to be some detailed large scale map either. A small scale beyond where you plan on going is fine.

I don't know what it's like to be lost or loose your shit, but I've had it happen to people I was loosely responsible for, and it fucked up my hunt for at least a day, and that is not kewl.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

The GPS on your phone works regardless of cell service. Beyond that, I have no other advice or information.

 

[hlee]

Years ago, I read an article about back country hunting- more mindset and preparation than actual hunting. The author wrote that soon after a hunt (before he forgot), he would empty all of his gear out on the floor and go through it. He would sort items into 3 piles. Those that were used frequently, those that were used infrequently, and those that were not used. Those that were used frequently were retained for future hunts. Those that were not used were discarded- with one exception. Emergency gear (first aid, fire, signaling, etc) was sequestered from the "unused" pile and retained. Special attention was paid to gear that was seldom used. This pile was evaluated for necessity and utility, and gear in this pile may or may not make the cut for next year.

Why type all of this? Because I consider a stand alone GPS unit emergency gear, though emergency gear that may get used frequently. My Garmin Oregon 650T weighs 8.75 oz with batteries installed and has the approximate dimensions of two decks of playing cards stacked upon each other. It rides in a pouch on the hip belt of my pack so that it is always within easy reach. This, even though my primary navigational aids are a map and a compass. If I had to choose between a GPS unit and an iPhone for a back country hunt, I would choose a GPS unit 10/10 times. Fortunately, I can carry both.

It should also be noted that the charge on an iPhone will last about a day- 48 hours tops. But, a stand alone GPS unit can go MUCH farther on a single pair of AA batteries. Backup chargers for a cell phone are HEAVY. Planned well, the backup batteries for your GPS unit will also power your flash light and whatever other electronic gear you deem necessary.

 

[strikeeagle1]

One is none. Two is one.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Years ago, I read an article about back country hunting- more mindset and preparation than actual hunting. The author wrote that soon after a hunt (before he forgot), he would empty all of his gear out on the floor and go through it. He would sort items into 3 piles. Those that were used frequently, those that were used infrequently, and those that were not used. Those that were used frequently were retained for future hunts. Those that were not used were discarded- with one exception. Emergency gear (first aid, fire, signaling, etc) was sequestered from the "unused" pile and retained. Special attention was paid to gear that was seldom used. This pile was evaluated for necessity and utility, and gear in this pile may or may not make the cut for next year.

This is solid advice and a method that many need to incorporate into their post range (or match) rituals.

A dedicated GPS should always be there as a backup to your map/compass/protractor.

 

[dadalavida]

"The GPS on your phone works regardless of cell service." Beyond that: depending on your app and how much map data it will store offline, phones require internet access to download map data and keep that data updated for your position.

 

[cas6969]

I always bring my fairly outdated GPS with me,despite the two smart phones that come along. The phones just seem to have a history of letting me down battery wise when I need them most. As mentioned above, the ability to swap in batteries (even if I have to take them out of something else) is a big plus over the spare cell battery I never seem to bring.
I'm on the other side of the coin, I've been thinking about buying a new one.

 

[308pirate]

The GPS on your phone works regardless of cell service.

The maps do not

 

[308pirate]

Was looking into getting another gps, but with the built in location services and onX hunt is there really a need for the average hunter/hiker? I have used onX for years. Me and some buddies hunted AEP land in Ohio for spring turkey last year and will be again this year. onX app was flawless even with shitty cell service. Should I invest in a gps unit for hunting and scouting anymore? Plan on a elk trip in the near future but can’t find a reason to buy one because the iPhone is killing it at the moment.

Only a fool ventures into the backcountry relying on a phone app to be his sole (or even main) source of position data.

Even AEP lands, which are tiny compared to the western backcounty, can kill you if you get lost far enough from a road.

 

[Fig]

"We're never lost." - QM2 Fig

 

[cas6969]

"We're never lost." - QM2 Fig

For sure. That's always what gets me "turned about". I've never been lost someplace I didn't know, it's always been places I know very well. lmao

 

[Tortuga]

P.A.C.E.=Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency.
That's the formula when it comes to navigation or comms.

More importantly, know how to use what you have and be honest with yourself. When is the last time you made a nav plan using a map and compass/protractor?

 

[Secant]

The maps do not

You can download maps in advance and use them offline.

 

[Fig]

I still use paper charts and have a mk5 sextant. I can do sight reductions long hand, but I’d rather use strip forms.
A map and compass is remedial.

 

[308pirate]

You can download maps in advance and use them offline.

Cool you fixed one of the six or seven disadvantages of using a phone for serious outdoor navigation and communication.

 

[308pirate]

"We're never lost." - QM2 Fig

"Bullshit, show me the fix" - LT 308pirate

 

[308pirate]

I still use paper charts and have a mk5 sextant. I can do sight reductions long hand, but I’d rather use strip forms.
A map and compass is remedial.

I'd have to crack the books again. Haven't touched that since 1990.

Piloting and dead reckoning, do it all the time.

 

[Tortuga]

A map and compass is remedial.

Shhh...the Marines don't know that.

-Tortuga, CPO(ret)

 

[hlee]

Land nav for the military and land nav for the recreational hunter are 2 very different things. For example, it is rare to parachute into a hunting area. You are also rarely hunting across a trackless expanse of ocean. Typically, you drive to a trailhead- which is clearly marked on a good backpacking map. And, while you will most certainly stray from the hiking trails, the areas you are hunting have trails that are also (mostly) marked on the map. Between knowing exactly where you start, the network of trails in the area you are hunting, and having a morsel of situational awareness (where are the ridge lines/creeks/trails/etc in relation to you and on the map?), you don't need to be a mil trained land nav expert to not get lost with just a map and a compass. Having a GPS unit with fresh batteries and a "bread crumb" feature pinging away while you attempt to get lost makes the effort nearly impossible. Stand alone GPS units have features that iPhone apps do not- like the aforementioned breadcrumb feature...

 

[Secant]

Cool you fixed one of the six or seven disadvantages of using a phone for serious outdoor navigation and communication.

I’m not advocating for or against the use, and I didn’t fix anything.

I barely got out hunting last year. But I had a multi day elk trip in the Rockies, a multi day trip in the Missouri Breaks, and a handful of day hunts locally. All areas I’m familiar with, and I had a GPS in my bag, but I used OnX as though it was my only unit. Didn’t have any issues.

I’ve also used it alongside professional land surveyors with industry grade equipment, often in remote locations. I have a good understanding of the limitations.

What are the other 5 or 6 disadvantages of using a phone as you see it?

 

[camocorvette]

I'm a fan of backups. I still have a compass and map. I've always been taught it's good to have a section map of your AO. Even if you have gps, and other electronic aids. Maps don't die

 

[hlee]

I’m not advocating for or against the use, and I didn’t fix anything.

I barely got out hunting last year. But I had a multi day elk trip in the Rockies, a multi day trip in the Missouri Breaks, and a handful of day hunts locally. All areas I’m familiar with, and I had a GPS in my bag, but I used OnX as though it was my only unit. Didn’t have any issues.

I’ve also used it alongside professional land surveyors with industry grade equipment, often in remote locations. I have a good understanding of the limitations.

What are the other 5 or 6 disadvantages of using a phone as you see it?

The major disadvantages of a cell phone are battery life and battery compatibility.

And, compared to a paper map, resolution. Even a giant phone has a tiny screen compared to what you can print on paper and fold.

Maybe OnX does it, but I really like the breadcrumb feature that lets you backtrack your route by dropping track markers at set time intervals. The "standard" map features on cell devices do not do this to my knowledge.

The disconnect between the maps and the GPS has been mentioned (Your phone may be able to locate you, but may not be able to show your position on a map if you did not download it previously)

That's 5 that I can think of off of the top of my head...

 

[Fig]

"Bullshit, show me the fix" - LT 308pirate

3 LOP, and WREN 5 confirms.

 

[Fig]

I don’t RELY on anything electric in the wild. Primary means is always going to be analog for me. I love the convenience of ONX, and use it all the time, but when I go back country for elk I have the map and compass and keep a loose plot of where I am. The GPS is a back up and set to expedition (low power consumption). Inreach is an added safety feature, and in August I upgrade to the $60 membership.

You do whatever you want, but idiots with phones who are totally lost without them fuck up hunts, get lost, and once in a while die of exposure. I’ve seen grown ass men get lost and panic in the afternoon on a warm day.

 

[Secant]

The major disadvantages of a cell phone are battery life and battery compatibility.

And, compared to a paper map, resolution. Even a giant phone has a tiny screen compared to what you can print on paper and fold.

Maybe OnX does it, but I really like the breadcrumb feature that lets you backtrack your route by dropping track markers at set time intervals. The "standard" map features on cell devices do not do this to my knowledge.

The disconnect between the maps and the GPS has been mentioned (Your phone may be able to locate you, but may not be able to show your position on a map if you did not download it previously)

That's 5 that I can think of off of the top of my head...

As @camocorvette said, I am also a fan of backups, and I like hard copy maps. I learned to use a map and compass with my dad, but it was also part of the grade school curriculum where I'm from. I'm also not pushing one way or another for what anyone else does.

-I agree that battery life could be an issue. Not specific to phones though. I bring extra lithium batteries for handheld GPS, and I have a portable charger for my phone that can recharge my phone several times (3 or 4 depending), and a single charge on my phone can last 2 or 3 days out in the field.

-The resolution on the downloaded maps is pretty good. To the point that I could pick out trees or bushes near me. It's definitely different than a paper map though.

-OnX does have a tracking feature. I don't really use it, and couldn't tell you if you can change the frequency of setting points. You can also always add waypoints whenever you want, which is usually what I do with either a hand held unit or a phone. If you have some specific frequency that you prefer points to be set, that could be an argument against the phone (maybe?).

-Not downloading the maps in advance is not a phone issue, that's a planning issue with the user. It would be like bringing the wrong paper map.

I think sometimes the fear of electronics gets taken a little too far (not saying that's you or anyone else in this thread). It would almost be like saying paper maps are bad because the wind can blow them away or they can catch on fire or you can't see them at night. At the end of the day, a dipshit is always going to get lost not matter what they bring. No matter what, know the limitations and have a backup if you are going out in the woods.

 

[cas6969]

You can download maps in advance and use them offline.

That's the only part of OnX I can't get to work and I've been using it for years on several devices, paid subscription. I've discussed this other places with folks and never got an answer. My downloaded maps work "off grid" but none of the other info, boundaries, owners names and such (the whole reason to use OnX) show up? Muts be toopid or sumfin.

 

[Fig]

I went with a group one time and an idiot asked me why I keep looking back. “Because, I plan on walking out of here one day, don’t you?”
The way back can look totally different than the way up. Basic shit that too many don’t know or understand because they’re always looking at their phones.

The worst thing about phones is the dependence they cause, and the lack of real skills people think they don’t have to learn because they have a “smart” phone.

 

[spife7980]

 

[hlee]

As @camocorvette said, I am also a fan of backups, and I like hard copy maps. I learned to use a map and compass with my dad, but it was also part of the grade school curriculum where I'm from. I'm also not pushing one way or another for what anyone else does.

-I agree that battery life could be an issue. Not specific to phones though. I bring extra lithium batteries for handheld GPS, and I have a portable charger for my phone that can recharge my phone several times (3 or 4 depending), and a single charge on my phone can last 2 or 3 days out in the field.

-The resolution on the downloaded maps is pretty good. To the point that I could pick out trees or bushes near me. It's definitely different than a paper map though.

-OnX does have a tracking feature. I don't really use it, and couldn't tell you if you can change the frequency of setting points. You can also always add waypoints whenever you want, which is usually what I do with either a hand held unit or a phone. If you have some specific frequency that you prefer points to be set, that could be an argument against the phone (maybe?).

-Not downloading the maps in advance is not a phone issue, that's a planning issue with the user. It would be like bringing the wrong paper map.

I think sometimes the fear of electronics gets taken a little too far (not saying that's you or anyone else in this thread). It would almost be like saying paper maps are bad because the wind can blow them away or they can catch on fire or you can't see them at night. At the end of the day, a dipshit is always going to get lost not matter what they bring. No matter what, know the limitations and have a backup if you are going out in the woods.

Maps can catch on fire, and you need a flashlight to read them at night. Ugh. Has anyone else seen the youtube commercial for the "Tactical flashlight" so powerful it can light paper on fire? FML, who buys this stuff?

"Resolution" wasn't the right word. What I meant was that with a paper map I can see a much larger area with good resolution than I can on a phone or GPS unit... Being able to lay a map out on the tent floor (well, ground cloth as I have moved to hammock camping) and see the whole hunting area makes planning the next day easier.

There are very few "disadvantages" of any device/solution that cannot be worked around with proper planning...

 

[hlee]

I went with a group one time and an idiot asked me why I keep looking back. “Because, I plan on walking out of here one day, don’t you?”
The way back can look totally different than the way up. Basic shit that too many don’t know or understand because they’re always looking at their phones.

The worst thing about phones is the dependence they cause, and the lack of real skills people think they don’t have to learn because they have a “smart” phone.

If you walk in before sun-up, and out after sun-down, you never need to worry about the scenery...

 

[Secant]

That's the only part of OnX I can't get to work and I've been using it for years on several devices, paid subscription. I've discussed this other places with folks and never got an answer. My downloaded maps work "off grid" but none of the other info, boundaries, owners names and such (the whole reason to use OnX) show up? Muts be toopid or sumfin.

That's weird. I get boundaries, owners, topo lines, etc. on all my downloaded maps.

 

[gwood]

I think it was Daniel Boone who said if you don't care where you are, you're not lost, you're exploring.

 

[Secant]

Maps can catch on fire, and you need a flashlight to read them at night. Ugh. Has anyone else seen the youtube commercial for the "Tactical flashlight" so powerful it can light paper on fire? FML, who buys this stuff?

 

[MadDuner]

I'm still old skool.

I will use https://mapstore.mytopo.com/ to map the area I will be operating in, have it printed and mailed to me to navigate with. Electronic devices and I do not always play well together.

 

[JoshPutman]

If you get lost in the back country, just shoot an out of season critter, and a game warden will appear and "rescue" you.

 

[308pirate]

What are the other 5 or 6 disadvantages of using a phone as you see it?

Not rugged
Not waterproof
Not compatible with common batteries
Can't easily change batteries
Difficult to view in direct sunlight
I could go on but I have other things to do

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Garmin inreach explorer + is what you seek. Worth every penny if you stay in the woods out of service at all. Battery lasts forever, you always have GPS, and you can have pre programmed messages and send them for free as well as text. You can even use to text message a buddy to call for help if you have car trouble or something out of cell range.

 

[b6graham]

i can't decide between inreach explorer + or the 66i

 

[bohica17]

P.A.C.E.=Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency.
That's the formula when it comes to navigation or comms.

More importantly, know how to use what you have and be honest with yourself. When is the last time you made a nav plan using a map and compass/protractor?

Lol when I was in RSLC. I haven’t hunt public land where I needed gps usually just rabbit hunting tree lines and fence rows. I have lost my private land honey hole and will be doing more public ground hunting. Is garmin still king? Last unit I had was a 401 but it came off my wrist breaking contact in ghazni. I guess I should of asked more of should I bother with a hand held with a screen and nice maps since iPhone will be my primary and just get something else like a 401 for backup. On a long backpacking hunt i would have a paper map of area as well.

 

[Fig]

It really is amazing. The EPIRB I used to carry for sailing, backpacking, and avalanches, was heavy as shit and didn’t do anything but send an sos and position. Being able to text from anywhere on the planet is a whole other level of protection and safety.

I When I was young and more active I didn’t have the money for a sat phone.

 

[Fig]

Lol when I was in RSLC. I haven’t hunt public land where I needed gps usually just rabbit hunting tree lines and fence rows. I have lost my private land honey hole and will be doing more public ground hunting. Is garmin still king? Last unit I had was a 401 but it came off my wrist breaking contact in ghazni. I guess I should of asked more of should I bother with a hand held with a screen and nice maps since iPhone will be my primary and just get something else like a 401 for backup. On a long backpacking hunt i would have a paper map of area as well.

I think Onx is better for rabbit hunting and places where you might still get a cell signal.

 

[Tchitcherine]

IMHO, bring all the gizmos, so maybe you can figure out where you are and where to go. Map, compass, altimeter, GTG -- everything else is bonus. But invest some time in learning your territory. You should not be getting the fuck lost!

 

[bohica17]

Not rugged
Not waterproof
Not compatible with common batteries
Can't easily change batteries
Difficult to view in direct sunlight
I could go on but I have other things to do

iPhone 13 pro max has survived multiple drops.
Phone is waterproof as well as the case
Portable solar chargers are really cool
Have not a single issue with viewing in the sunlight and I can always place a hand above it and block sun if needed
Works great for me I’d kill to have one when I was in Iraq/Afghanistan/rslc star course. Buddies rock phones on there plate carriers with a gps app lol. And battery life when on airplane mode is legit crazy like used 20 percent when I was hunting am and scouting roosting after the noon cut off. I do like the text message feature on the garmin. And I did make a call when I was out of service to try and test the emergency service on my phone and I was able to get through.

 

[308pirate]

iPhone 13 pro max has survived multiple drops.
Phone is waterproof as well as the case
Portable solar chargers are really cool
Have not a single issue with viewing in the sunlight and I can always place a hand above it and block sun if needed
Works great for me I’d kill to have one when I was in Iraq/Afghanistan/rslc star course. Buddies rock phones on there plate carriers with a gps app lol. And battery life when on airplane mode is legit crazy like used 20 percent when I was hunting am and scouting roosting after the noon cut off. I do like the text message feature on the garmin. And I did make a call when I was out of service to try and test the emergency service on my phone and I was able to get through.

If you're so convinced phones are so fucking awesome, why did you even ask the original question in the first place?

PS I call bullshit on the phone is waterproof, but in the end I don't GAF because I don't rely on mine for anything other than making calls/texts and watching porn.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Land nav for the military and land nav for the recreational hunter are 2 very different things.

Navigation is navigation. They share so many qualities. Take away the .mil or hunter, and principles stay the same.

You are also rarely hunting across a trackless expanse of ocean. Typically, you drive to a trailhead- which is clearly marked on a good backpacking map. And, while you will most certainly stray from the hiking trails, the areas you are hunting have trails that are also (mostly) marked on the map

You’ve clearly never hunted the vast openness of the Alaskan Tundra. No trees, no significant terrain to associate with. Top that off with the terrain(hippy head) making you think your a pro footballer in training camp the way you move in circle or high knees. Then we will toss in the sun, which may or may not set or rise completely depending on when you are there. If you don’t fly in, you are required to walk 5 miles off the main road to hunt with a firearm. Guaranteed to test your ability to return to your truck without a good gps.

 

[bohica17]

If you're so convinced phones are so fucking awesome, why did you even ask the original question in the first place?

PS I call bullshit on the phone is waterproof, but in the end I don't GAF because I don't rely on mine for anything other than making calls/texts and watching porn.

Because I haven’t purchased a gps since 2012 I haven’t used one since then either and I have had no problems with my phone and was curious about some of the new gps on the market and was curious what other dudes are using. Sorry me proving you wrong about a phone caused you to go on a passive aggressive rant lol

 

[bohica17]

i can't decide between inreach explorer + or the 66i

I like how they don’t force you into a year long contract for the subscription services

 

[b6graham]

I like how they don’t force you into a year long contract for the subscription services

no. but depending how many months you plan on using it a subscription might make more sense versus paying the by month extra fee