Are My Expectations Too High?

[MarkLeupold]

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm a decent shot. I've shot well under 1MOA with my bolt gun from the prone. Yes, this was my first AR build, but I'm pretty competent and handy so I feel like I assembled it to the best of my abilities.

Context: Put together my first AR this past year. 14.5" Criterion CORE barrel, Brownell's BCG, DSA upper, Steiner T5Xi 3-15. It has right around 200 rounds on it right now. Shot 77gr S&B at like 3MOA, and this photo is from today with Freedom Munitions reman SS109. Sharpie for scale, but it's like 4.5MOA.

Now, this rifle was never meant to be a dedicated precision platform. I wanted a good general purpose rifle that I could stretch into whatever role I needed it to be. I tried to be as realistic as possible with this rifle. I wanted 1.5MOA with match grade ammo. S&B isn't exactly the epitome of match grade, but I thought it would perform better than it did.

Blaster ammo: My expectations weren't exactly high, but 4.5MOA doesn't really cut it for me.

I should probably order some FGMM or something good for absurd prices and see how it performs before I do anything drastic, but if that doesn't do it do I just tear down and rebuild the thing?

But maybe my expectations were too high?

 

[SirDrinksAlot]

Perfectly acceptable IMO.

 

[TRPrecision]

It should do way better than that. Try some 77g IMI razor core or 77g FGMM. The S&B stuff is shit, the ss109 / Green tip is worse. Try some real quality match ammo and you should see 1moa or better.

 

[Partsunavailable]

I'm guessing that something might be loose. My first build shot about like that, I didn't know what to expect. I swapped scopes and double checked my mounts and the groups tightened right up.

 

[MarkLeupold]

I'm guessing that something might be loose. My first build shot about like that, I didn't know what to expect. I swapped scopes and double checked my mounts and the groups tightened right up.

That's the first thing in my mind. I'll double check the Spuhr to be sure, but the whole thing's spray painted and it doesn't look like anything's moved.

 

[RUTGERS95]

horrible results, should be better than that

 

[acudaowner]

you can always get better , if your willing to put in the effort . People aren't born with the ability to wipe there own buts you learn how hopefully . Id say keep your expectation high , and shoot for the moon believe in your self cause only you can make your dreams come true or is it only you can prevent forest fires either way best of luck hitting that one hole 5 shot group at will at almost any range .

 

[LRRPF52]

SS109 has a steel cone inside the nose that isn’t exactly perfectly-concentric to the overall projectile form. Especially in a 14.5” light weight AR-15, looks like you shot a great group with them.

The last time I shot on a KD range with M855 from an M4, I was lucky to get a 24” group maybe, and I was using the magazine as a monopod from prone, rear support, really good position laid-in on a grass range. That was from a rack-grade barrel of course.

With my personal rifles at the time, including AR-15s and an AR-10, I was shooting MOA or better easily.

 

[MarkLeupold]

SS109 has a steel cone inside the nose that isn’t exactly perfectly-concentric to the overall projectile form. Especially in a 14.5” light weight AR-15, looks like you shot a great group with them.

The last time I shot on a KD range with M855 from an M4, I was lucky to get a 24” group maybe, and I was using the magazine as a monopod from prone, rear support, really good position laid-in on a grass range. That was from a rack-grade barrel of course.

With my personal rifles at the time, including AR-15s and an AR-10, I was shooting MOA or better easily.

Noted. No more SS109/M855 for me

 

[TurboTrout]

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm a decent shot. I've shot well under 1MOA with my bolt gun from the prone. Yes, this was my first AR build, but I'm pretty competent and handy so I feel like I assembled it to the best of my abilities.

Context: Put together my first AR this past year. 14.5" Criterion CORE barrel, Brownell's BCG, DSA upper, Steiner T5Xi 3-15. It has right around 200 rounds on it right now. Shot 77gr S&B at like 3MOA, and this photo is from today with Freedom Munitions reman SS109. Sharpie for scale, but it's like 4.5MOA.

Now, this rifle was never meant to be a dedicated precision platform. I wanted a good general purpose rifle that I could stretch into whatever role I needed it to be. I tried to be as realistic as possible with this rifle. I wanted 1.5MOA with match grade ammo. S&B isn't exactly the epitome of match grade, but I thought it would perform better than it did.

Blaster ammo: My expectations weren't exactly high, but 4.5MOA doesn't really cut it for me.

I should probably order some FGMM or something good for absurd prices and see how it performs before I do anything drastic, but if that doesn't do it do I just tear down and rebuild the thing?

But maybe my expectations were too high?

View attachment 7826447

Shotgun?

 

[mtrmn]

In my experience, the BIGGEST difference in accuracy was ammo worked up and loaded FOR THAT GUN. This requires lots of money for a variety of components, or a lot of money to buy a lot of various flavors of loaded ammo. Both of these routes have lost a lot of appeal under the present conditions. Also need to chronograph everything looking for lowest extreme velocity spread and lowest Sd. You can have 2 identical rifles with consecutive serial numbers and one of them perform wonderfully with a certain ammo and the other one is a total fail.

Next, an improved trigger was the second biggest result getter. I prefer 2-stage triggers myself. Most any upgrade trigger will be better than the std trigger.

As others will tell you, shooting a gasser is totally different from a bolt. Got a trusted buddy who shoots ARs really well? See what he can do with it.

Only if the above doesn't work would I look at upgrading the barrel.
Of course, all this is assuming EVERYTHING is properly assembled and torqued, especially the bbl and optics.

 

[MarkLeupold]

In my experience, the BIGGEST difference in accuracy was ammo worked up and loaded FOR THAT GUN. This requires lots of money for a variety of components, or a lot of money to buy a lot of various flavors of loaded ammo. Both of these routes have lost a lot of appeal under the present conditions. Also need to chronograph everything looking for lowest extreme velocity spread and lowest Sd. You can have 2 identical rifles with consecutive serial numbers and one of them perform wonderfully with a certain ammo and the other one is a total fail.

Next, an improved trigger was the second biggest result getter. I prefer 2-stage triggers myself. Most any upgrade trigger will be better than the std trigger.

As others will tell you, shooting a gasser is totally different from a bolt. Got a trusted buddy who shoots ARs really well? See what he can do with it.

Only if the above doesn't work would I look at upgrading the barrel.
Of course, all this is assuming EVERYTHING is properly assembled and torqued, especially the bbl and optics.

I would like to work up a load for this rifle, but like you said, there's been some issues getting components and my reloading room hasn't followed me in my move yet, so it'll probably be a little while.

 

[davsco]

double check everything scope-related. make sure gas system isn't touching your tube, or close enough to touch during recoil.

but yeah try some decent albeit expensive and rare factory ammo. fed or black hills or hornady match of some sort.

always good to have someone else shoot it. of course, you're not resting the barrel on your front rest. when you dryfire at the 100yd target, is the x staying on target?

 

[MarkLeupold]

double check everything scope-related. make sure gas system isn't touching your tube, or close enough to touch during recoil.

but yeah try some decent albeit expensive and rare factory ammo. fed or black hills or hornady match of some sort.

always good to have someone else shoot it. of course, you're not resting the barrel on your front rest. when you dryfire at the 100yd target, is the x staying on target?

I'll double check all the torques and gas system and get some good ammo to try. Maybe in the future my blaster ammo should be 55gr FMJ stuff.

I'll have someone else get behind it the next time I'm out with my buddies. Of course, not resting on the barrel. Today was off a bipod. Dry fire, everything stays in place like it should.

 

[Partsunavailable]

Interesting thread, with most of us leaning towards a mechanical problem. I've often wondered, how bad can a barrel shoot, assuming everything is built properly. Or how much could a load that the rifle doesn't like open up groups?

 

[346ci]

The 77gr should print the best group out of the 2 choices. Even S&B should shoot better than 3moa.

Try another type of match ammo like FGMM or ADI 69gr, if no dice something is off.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Interesting thread, with most of us leaning towards a mechanical problem. I've often wondered, how bad can a barrel shoot, assuming everything is built properly. Or how much could a load that the rifle doesn't like open up groups?

It can be a major difference. But the combo of a first time ar shooter + ammo the gun doesn't like can produce really bad groups

 

[TurboTrout]

all my AR have been JPs, all shot under MOA

 

[ToddM]

First thing I would do is try some good match ammo, 3-4 brands/bullet weights. This will give you a good idea what the gun is capable of with factory quality match ammo. If it can't come anywhere near 1MOA you might have an equipment issue. The problem with lego guns is that sometimes it just takes one assembly mistake, poor part choice, or bad part to mess up the whole system, when it all works it's great, but when it doesn't it can be a nightmare trying to run down what's causing the problem.

 

[Molon]

10-shot group fired at 100 yards from a 16" Criterion CORE barrel.

....

 

[MarkLeupold]

First thing I would do is try some good match ammo, 3-4 brands/bullet weights. This will give you a good idea what the gun is capable of with factory quality match ammo. If it can't come anywhere near 1MOA you might have an equipment issue. The problem with lego guns is that sometimes it just takes one assembly mistake, poor part choice, or bad part to mess up the whole system, when it all works it's great, but when it doesn't it can be a nightmare trying to run down what's causing the problem.

And that's always been in the back of my mind. I'm no stranger to tolerance stacking. If I can't get it to shoot anything, I'll probably tear it down and start partially over.

10-shot group fired at 100 yards from a 16" Criterion CORE barrel.

....

Your test was actually one of the reasons I thought the CORE was going to be a good option. So many people have had good experiences with them (for a chrome lined barrel) in terms of accuracy. I'll try better ammo before I make any more decisions

 

[dogman]

The 77gr IMI Razorcore has been pretty consistent between different carbines for me. I have some carbines that love Black Hills 77gr and some that are meh.

Semi-auto recoil impulse may be a factor for you. Besides barrel, triggers have been the best bang for the buck accuracy upgrade for me on carbines.

 

[ELCO82]

I have a criterion barrel that impresses the hell out of me, but its in a vltor mur upper and it was a tight fit. I'm convinced that a lot of peoples problems start at that interface of the barrel and reciever........the vltor are my favorite, but bcm is a tight fit too and i'm sure theres many others. i hesitate to bring these kinds of things up because they can derail a thread once people start arguing the efficacy of such things, but i wont build an upper anymore without a high quality, tight reciever. i'm not in the camp that says "they're all basically the same"

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Shooting an AR is less forgiving than a bolt gun on technique. If you are new to AR's in general, you may want to get a solid AR shooter to try it as well. Take yourself out of the equation to be sure, it is common to see groups open up when transitioning from bolt guns to AR's.

 

[supercorndogs]

Groups opening up, and 3-5 MOA shotgun patterns aren't the same thing.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

This looks like an ammo related problem to me. Unless you're just looking for blasting ammo green tip ammo and freedom munitions stuff is not really the pinnacle of accuracy . Some ammo can do crazy stuff in a barrel it doesn't like. I have a bunch of PPU m80 that shoots solid 1.5 ish groups in a friends gun and the desert tech I had, but my LMT MWS will shoot it at like 5 moa (compared to sub moa with 175 fggm). You can go run some xm193 type ammo through it too and see how that runs.

It could be shooter related, but I have never thought the "gas guns are hard" is a AR15 thing, so much as a large frame semi auto thing. But only you are going to know if you're the limiting factor.

I wouldnt be happy with results like that. Even my 13 5" Sig MCX will put all my random 55gr ammo onto a mini IPSC at 300m. And that's not a gun known for accuracy.

Good luck on getting it to perform!

 

[hlee]

Freedom munitions has been sub 2 moa ammunition from the 2 rifles I’ve used it in. Good enough for run and gun comps. And, it doesn’t hurt to leave the cases at the stage. M855 is 4 moa out of the same guns- neither of which are premium barrels. I’ve been using m855 for ‘Mexican match’ loads using 55 gr bullets (whatever I have on hand). This cuts the group size in half- or better- and I don’t need to source powder or primers.

 

[Ravenworks]

It should do way better than that. Try some 77g IMI razor core or 77g FGMM. The S&B stuff is shit, the ss109 / Green tip is worse. Try some real quality match ammo and you should see 1moa or better.

^^^
This right here.

That barrel is very good quality and should shoot like a laser with quality ammunition

 

[supercorndogs]

Is 77 S&B crappy ammo? I would expect better than 4 MOA from most SS109 ammo too. My Criterion Hybrid contour barrel hammers, even when I was tuning it and having trouble getting it to "shoot" it was 1.5 MOA. {6.5 Grendel} I am with the crowd that thinks you have something wrong either mechanically or you got a bad barrel. I don't feel like any of the small tuning stuff, like key gas tube interface, and gas volume Vs buffer weight is even coming into play.

If match ammo wont shoot. I would be looking at the muzzle device, barrel loose, scope mount tight, scope bad. Something major. If none off that changed it. I would take it apart, inspect it thougfhrly them put it back together again, paying close attention to the barrel extension upper recover interface. If it still didn't shoot with in your expectations, 1-1.5 MOA with factory match, I would contact Criterion.

1.5 MOA with match ammo I don't think is that much to ask anymore. I expect less than that from a good barrel.

 

[samnev]

As others have said , fist I'd get some FGMM and see how that shoots. Next I'd replace the trigger with either Geissele SSA or SSA-E or a Trigger Tech Adjustable or Diamond. either of those really improved my groups. Good luck.

 

[addertooth]

I will triple down on what others have said. Spend some time observing other folks at the range. If you see someone with an AR platform who is shooting tight groups. ask them politely to put ten rounds at a hundred yards with your gun, and observe the results.

I consider myself very solid shooting rifles, but when I was zeroing my optics on a 1911 pistol (vortex venom), I was chasing an ideal zero. A guy showed up at the range who was a pistol match shooter. I politely asked him to shoot a group with my pistol, and he showed me what the pistol could REALLY do. He put down 8 rounds, with all of them touching at 25 yards. In my case, the loose screw was the one behind the trigger. It gave me a place to focus on, to get my groups much happier. Also, when another pro is shooting your gun, look at his stance and technique. You can learn quite a bit by watching a pro at work.

 

[bohica17]

M855 in the words of a good buddy at best shoots minute of man lol.

 

[houndog]

Really excellent advice above. I would do the following - in order:

1. Check everything is tight, scope not touching the barrel, etc.

2. Get a couple of boxes of good quality ammo. FGMM, IMI Razorcore, ADI 69 gr. and maybe Hornady Match. XM 193 is in the best case 2 MOA ammo. M855 is generally worse.

3. Upgrade you stock trigger. LaRue MBT is an excellent trigger at a good price. Also hard to go wrong with a Geissele.

4. Work on your fundamentals. Just because you can shoot a bolt gun well doesn't mean you can shoot an AR15. Be sure you are getting behind the gun exactly the same way each time. Load your bipod. Follow through.

Assuming everything is tight, your disappointing results (and they are disappointing) is probably a combination of you and your ammo. Getting match ammo should get you down to about 2.5 MOA. The rest is up to you. Sub 1.5 MOA should definitely be achievable with your set up. And if you refine your technique and got a good barrel, you could certainly see 1 MOA.

 

[FALex]

all my AR have been JPs, all shot under MOA

I don't know if that is going to really help the OP resolve this particular issue, and I say that as a dedicated JP-whore. LMAO!!

OP - for the components you described, I voted in the 2-2.5MOA category...I was really trying to determine what "mid tier" would be defined as, because it could definitely be subject to interpretation.

However, because all of your important parts are all different manufacturers, I'd have to assume that the rig is not going to be on the more accurate side of what an AR can be (tolerance stacking being one of those primary concerns). What bolt do you have? I know Criterion usually sends a spaced bolt with their barrels. Also, the ammunition you noted as "mid-tier" is closer to the bottom end of that spectrum, IMHO.

All that being said, and even if you are running a non-Criterion bolt, I do still believe that 3-4.5MOA is not acceptable, not even close. Generally, Criterion makes a fairly decent barrel. I can't speak to Brownells or DSA, but this is all generally built to a certain spec. so that you can lego-build most rifle together.

I did not see in your post what trigger you're running. Whatchya' got?

Please update your thread when you get some answers.

 

[camocorvette]

How was the barrel fitted? Thermal? Shimmed? Green loctite? Grease? Torque to spec?
Assuming you don't suck at shooting.. that 77 should shoot better then that at 100

 

[camocorvette]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to watch through their videos to make sure you checked the block on everything.

 

[MarkLeupold]

Always plenty of good information on the Hide. At this point in time, the to-do list is:

1. Check torques on scope mounting
2. Get some good, match ammo and test it. I can probably do that in the next couple weeks
3. If that doesn't produce satisfactory results, I'll tear down the upper and re-assemble (maybe bed the barrel while I'm there)
4. And if that doesn't do it, I'll be sending Criterion a message and see if I got a dud

However, because all of your important parts are all different manufacturers, I'd have to assume that the rig is not going to be on the more accurate side of what an AR can be (tolerance stacking being one of those primary concerns). What bolt do you have? I know Criterion usually sends a spaced bolt with their barrels. Also, the ammunition you noted as "mid-tier" is closer to the bottom end of that spectrum, IMHO.

All that being said, and even if you are running a non-Criterion bolt, I do still believe that 3-4.5MOA is not acceptable, not even close. Generally, Criterion makes a fairly decent barrel. I can't speak to Brownells or DSA, but this is all generally built to a certain spec. so that you can lego-build most rifle together.

I did not see in your post what trigger you're running. Whatchya' got?

Please update your thread when you get some answers.

Bolt is a Brownell's. Bolt head was not matched, but I did check headspace on it and it was somewhere between 0.000 and +.004"

Trigger is this one. It's honestly not that bad. I've shot better groups with worse.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...sku100029372-120778-223144.aspx?sku=100029372

I'll update the thread for sure when I get the match ammo.

How was the barrel fitted? Thermal? Shimmed? Green loctite? Grease? Torque to spec?
Assuming you don't suck at shooting.. that 77 should shoot better then that at 100

Barrel was not thermal fit, no shims, not bedded. Greased the threads, yes. Torqued to 40 ft-lbs and backed off twice before final torque at 40 ft-lbs. I don't feel like I suck at shooting, lol

 

[camocorvette]

It sounds like you are doing the right things. Continue on with your current plan. It seems the best course of action. I hope you get it figured out.

 

[Milf Dots]

Two MILFs would be nice.

 

[MarkLeupold]

Two MILFs would be nice.

A little off topic, but I'm not gonna tell you otherwise

 

[Near miss]

Ammo can indeed be 4moa in a decent rifle.

I tested 15 different cartridges in my CL HK and most bulk (7 different loads) did 1.3 to 1.6 moa 5 shot groups.
On top of that, 2 loads did very badly, with 2.6 and 4.0 moa respectively. The 4moa load was Norma, which was very surprising.

The sierra loads were all 0.8 to 1.1moa, depending on manufacturer (and lot)

I would say my groups have 20% error marginal and even 4x5 shot groups do not have 100% statistical signifigance but ammo indeed can do 4moa.

It actually did over 4moa, I was not able to find all 5 shots always so took the ones I could find, no matter if it is 4.5 or 4, still horrible.

 

[M4orturnate]

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm a decent shot. I've shot well under 1MOA with my bolt gun from the prone. Yes, this was my first AR build, but I'm pretty competent and handy so I feel like I assembled it to the best of my abilities.

Context: Put together my first AR this past year. 14.5" Criterion CORE barrel, Brownell's BCG, DSA upper, Steiner T5Xi 3-15. It has right around 200 rounds on it right now. Shot 77gr S&B at like 3MOA, and this photo is from today with Freedom Munitions reman SS109. Sharpie for scale, but it's like 4.5MOA.

Now, this rifle was never meant to be a dedicated precision platform. I wanted a good general purpose rifle that I could stretch into whatever role I needed it to be. I tried to be as realistic as possible with this rifle. I wanted 1.5MOA with match grade ammo. S&B isn't exactly the epitome of match grade, but I thought it would perform better than it did.

Blaster ammo: My expectations weren't exactly high, but 4.5MOA doesn't really cut it for me.

I should probably order some FGMM or something good for absurd prices and see how it performs before I do anything drastic, but if that doesn't do it do I just tear down and rebuild the thing?

But maybe my expectations were too high?

View attachment 7826447

Criterion core are great barrels imo. Is your gas block touching the rail or loose? Barrel torque? Mines at 38 lb. Scope or mounting loose? You can try to lap the upper and bed it. I usually lap becuase its easy and have bedded one and it seemed to shoot better but could be in my head. My 14.5 core hits 2moa steel at 500 with a eotech pretty damn consistent with whatever load i put in it.

 

[Bakwa]

As many have said, try better ammo before concluding anything.

I have a Bartlein that will stack 3/4 moa with black hills 77gr and sub 1 moa with imi 77gr, but some cheaper 55gr ammo will shoot 4 moa out of the same barrel.

Being able to drive a gas gun properly is real too. I didn't want to believe it myself until I got a 308 AR.
When I had a SR-25, it was really noticeable. Some days I could shoot all sub moa groups with it and other days I would string shots out to 2 moa for seemingly no reason. It was me inconsistently driving the gun.

Try different/better ammo and have a known good shooter get behind it as well. More data can only help.

Cheers

 

[hafejd30]

Better ammo, decent shooter as stated above

Make sure your gas tube is free floated and not putting pressure on your barrel as well

 

[supercorndogs]

It would be a bummer to glue the barrel in then find out the barrel is shit. Unless something is seriously wrong between the barrel extension and receiver, its not going to make it shoot really bad. Granted U have stated gluing them in from the get go. I haven't had to remove one yet but i do have a torch, so.......

 

[roostercogburn98]

The vertical and horizontal spread is pretty even on your posted group. I’d put money on something loose MAYBE, but more on fundamentals with an AR/semi auto. Maybe your optic is too high/low and you are not getting solid repeatable head placement which leads to inconsistent sight picture.

 

[bfoosh006]

I wouldn't put any faith in Freedom Munitions M855 shooting very well , frankly not even to the Mil-Spec. IMHO, it is meant to go bang, and not much else ( YMMV )

I would have hoped for better then 3 MOA from the S&B 77gr.

Sorry if I missed it, are you shooting from a bench ? Off of bags ? Or a Bipod ?

And FWIW, most of my Criterions have settled in at about 200ish rds.

As mentioned, make sure the barrel and gas block are not making contact with any part of the free float tube.

What muzzle device ? The upper and lower fit is decently tight ?

I would double check the barrel nut is snug. You might want to tighten it slightly.

If you take off your barrel nut.... I would suggest lapping the upper receiver face.

Can we get more details about your build ? The Handguard specifically. Steel barrel nut ? or Aluminum ?

 

[MarkLeupold]

I wouldn't put any faith in Freedom Munitions M855 shooting very well , frankly not even to the Mil-Spec. IMHO, it is meant to go bang, and not much else ( YMMV )

I would have hoped for better then 3 MOA from the S&B 77gr.

Sorry if I missed it, are you shooting from a bench ? Off of bags ? Or a Bipod ?

And FWIW, most of my Criterions have settled in at about 200ish rds.

As mentioned, make sure the barrel and gas block are not making contact with any part of the free float tube.

What muzzle device ? The upper and lower fit is decently tight ?

I would double check the barrel nut is snug. You might want to tighten it slightly.

If you take off your barrel nut.... I would suggest lapping the upper receiver face.

Can we get more details about your build ? The Handguard specifically. Steel barrel nut ? or Aluminum ?

Shooting off bipod and rear bag when I'm shooting for accuracy. I've verified, everything is free-floating as it should be. I even tuned the gas tube when I did the install.

Muzzle device is a Smith Enterprises G6-A2 flash hider. Upper and lower have a bit of slop to them (how much does that matter aside from fit and finish? All the accuracy happens in the upper, correct?)

I'd like to avoid removing the handguard if possible. The BCM MCMR is going to be a pain in the ass coming off. If I get to that point, I'll cuss it then. Barrel nut on that should be steel .

 

[bfoosh006]

Shooting off bipod and rear bag when I'm shooting for accuracy. I've verified, everything is free-floating as it should be. I even tuned the gas tube when I did the install.

Muzzle device is a Smith Enterprises G6-A2 flash hider. Upper and lower have a bit of slop to them (how much does that matter aside from fit and finish? All the accuracy happens in the upper, correct?)

I'd like to avoid removing the handguard if possible. The BCM MCMR is going to be a pain in the ass coming off. If I get to that point, I'll cuss it then. Barrel nut on that should be steel .

I'd try shooting of a front bag.. I "can" shoot off a bipod, but I shoot better off a bag.

Having a snug upper to lower makes it far easier to wield the AR consistently. And consistency matters in a precision AR... in a combat AR, I wouldn't worry about a little slop.
Provided the fit isn't WAY out of line you should be fine.

IMHO, It is the sum of all parts to achieve very good precision groups.

I hear you about the BCM handguards coming back off. Just a thought.

I asked about the barrel nut, because I have cracked a ( and broken ) aluminum ones.

 

[KellenQ]

Noted. No more SS109/M855 for me

I’ve honestly had better results than shown with a Springfield Saint and M855. Not sure what is going on with your rifle. It makes me worry about the Criterion barrel I got for my AR10 build though.

Noted. No more SS109/M855 for me