Rifle Scopes Are S&B scopes really that much better?

[jake6547]

I've been shooting all diffrent nightforce scopes my whole life, I guess i'm just wondering if the S&B are really that much better and if its worth it to sell mine and upgrade.

 

[remau308]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

If you can afford it, definitely go for it. The simple answer is yes, the Schmidt and Bender is much better than a Nightforce. How much better is it in terms of price? Well, that's for you to decide. I have switched to a Schmidt and Bender recently, and I have two friends who have switched from Nightforce to S&B. The optical quality is MUCH better than Nightforce, and the amount of light captured is better as well. You need to look through one, and run one before you decide though.

 

[jake6547]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I wish I knew somebody in the area that had one. probley wouldn't take much to convince me.

 

[hamstur]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it, definitely go for it. The simple answer is yes, the Schmidt and Bender is much better than a Nightforce.</div></div>

+1. Been selling off my USOs after playing with PR and S&B. I'll only add it's a hobby and not worth it if you have to change your lifestyle, spending or stress-level in anyway to own one...

 

[MMAJunkie]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I have looked through several of them on displays but I never was "shocked" at how much better they were. To me Night Force and a few others are so close I doubt I would spend the difference in price. I finally bit on an IOR over the Leupolds and Burris XTRs I have used before and frankly I was not really happy with it based on a cost benefit scale

 

[Iloveguns]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rotts4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have looked through several of them on displays but I never was "shocked" at how much better they were. To me Night Force and a few others are so close I doubt I would spend the difference in price. I finally bit on an IOR over the Leupolds and Burris XTRs I have used before and frankly I was not really happy with it based on a cost benefit scale </div></div>

In a store and on the range are two different things.

 

[jake6547]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Ive noticed with a nightforce that if the conditons are not perfect for example a little foggy, starting to get dark or a little mirage they are really hard to adjust and get clear, does anybody have a side to side comparison for me in these conditions?

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

This gets asked on a regular basis, and almost every time the answer is the same. Those who have actually used an S&B can tell you that it is that much better than the others. Not just glass, they fail less than other brands, and are more consistent across the board. I've had two and will own more in the future.

 

[johnsta]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamstur</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it, definitely go for it. The simple answer is yes, the Schmidt and Bender is much better than a Nightforce.</div></div>

+1. Been selling off my USOs after playing with PR and S&B. I'll only add it's a hobby and not worth it if you have to change your lifestyle, spending or stress-level in anyway to own one... </div></div>

This is good advice. Most quality optics are sufficient. S&B is amazing, but if you can't afford it there are plenty of quality optics out there that will serve you just fine. Just my opinion I suppose.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

If you consider moving up, you'd be doing yourself a severe disservice by not looking at Hensoldt too.

I always enjoy the "it looked good in the store" thing, which is indeed important - especially if you hunt or fight wars in stores.

 

[Zion4]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Are SB's better? Yes.
Are SB's necessary? No.

Its pretty much like cars and comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. They're both great cars and the BMW will get you everywhere in a great fashion, but people like and admire Ferraris because they are just better.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

you will never sire a strong man-child without one...

look at Premier and Hensoldt also.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I own and have owned over 50 high quality scopes. Only two USO, a MST 100 and a 3-17 SSDS.
I guess twenty or more NF and the balance S&B, Henstoldt, Zeiss etc.
NF is a very good scope. I still use the now obsolete 2.5-10x24, which was the most usable scope they made. I have at least 7 or eight now.
I now own over 15 S&B scopes. I consider each a work of art. Small hunting scopes, many PM11's a few varmint scopes. I love the mechanics of them, the optics of them, the finish and everything else I can think of.
One of my favorites is the 4-16x42. It is the perfect size and I find no advantage to the larger objectives of 50 or 56. When the light gets that low, I just put on the PVS 22 and drive on. I do wish the 1-8 would arrive, but I really have no need for the lower power. I would prefer a 3-10 with a side focus and small objective like the NF 2.5-10x24 but of S&B quality.

 

[Northland]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I have a NF, PH, SB along with a few other brands.

I do not believe they are worth the extra money, I think they are better, but not that much better.

 

[jake6547]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Thanks guys great info! I might try to find a local gun shop that has one so I can check it out first hand.

 

[Iloveguns]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Again you really wont get the best look through it in a store. Try to find some one local who has one and see if you can look through it mounted up on the range. Also like others have said, if you can afford it they are worth it. If the purchase is a little stressful I dont think its worth it.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jake6547</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish I knew somebody in the area that had one. probley wouldn't take much to convince me. </div></div>

I ran into this exact same problem (rural Georgia, here) and went to the S&B website to find dealers. The closest one with the 5-25x56 in stock was about an hour and a half away (one way) in SC, but I made the drive to look through one. The way I figured it was if I was about to drop 3k+ on a scope, I'm willing to burn a half tank of gas. I carried my NF NXS, PST, and Hensoldt* and the S&B blew them all away in clarity.

I kind of feel bad about fondling one without ordering through them, but Jay at SportOptics gave me a helluva deal.

Here are the S&B Dealers in MD:

Maryland
Atlantic guns
944 Bonifant St
Silver Springs, MD 20910
301-585-4448

Hendershots Sporting Goods
110 W Main St
Hancock, MD 21750
301-687-6869


*- The Hensoldt is a 4x24 scope. I'm sure it doesn't compare at all against a 4-16x, but hey - It <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span></span> a Hensoldt... I declined to put it above to give all the Henny lovers a heart attack!

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Der Schmidt und Bender Zielfernrohr ist ein gutes Zielfernrohr, ja?

Ja, die Schmidt und Bender ein gutes Zielfernrohr.

But.... it costs a lot of money.

 

[louboyd]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Shooter skill and quality rifles are not mutually exclusive. Both are necessary for successful long range shooting. I see little point however in upgrading from even a "Super Sniper" to an S&B unless it's actually limiting shooting accuracy. Few hunters have mastered downrange wind deflection estimation. Some don't even know it matters. Many are also limited by their holds and trigger control. None of those skills can be purchased. Their time and money would be better spent practicing in field conditions than anything they can buy.

Of course if the objective is impressing friends a USO, S&B, or Hensholdt is essential. An SS, Burris, or Leupold just won't do.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Lou is right, many people would be better off spending money on ammo and training than premium glass. However, if you have the money, you won't regret it. If you do not have the money, do NOT look!

I have a couple SS scopes and enjoy the 3-9 on my AR. I also have a Hensoldt 4-16x56 and another Hensoldt 3-12x56 on the way. The Hensoldt scopes just have a way of disappearing if that makes sense? The scope gets out of the way and lets you focus on the task at hand. The premium scopes are also very robust, have better turrets, and 10 mils or more per revolution (no more having to focus on which turn your on while dialing).

Like most pursuits, you pay a lot more $$$ for that last bit of performance. Only you can decide if it is worth the investment. However, premium optics do tend to hold their value. Buying what you want the first time usually pays off in the end.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Define "better." I define better as more reliable, more consistent, lighter, smaller (with same performance) and allowing me to shoot better scores. By that definition, it would be difficult to prove a S&B is one iota better than a NF. I do agree the S&Bs hold their value very well, ...but so do the NFs.

 

[JByrd]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Yes

 

[turbo54]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I have a Bender PM-II, two Premiers, two NFs and two Leupys. I've looked through a lot of scopes in the field.

The only scope I've ever looked through and said "Wow" are the Premiers. The same kind of "wow" when you pick up some HD Swaros or Leica Ultravids.

The Bender looks great - but not wow.

I had two rifles (8-32 NF and 5-25 PM-II) on the bench at the club last summer, from about 6PM to 8:30, so from excellent light to dusk. Several folks, who are NOT optics junkies looked through them, from 200 yards to 600 yards, on the same powers, at the same stuff. Back and forth, back and forth.

Everyone thought the NF was better. My NF is good, but I think the Bender is better...maybe thats because I was the one who shelled out $3k for it?

I dunno - you better be serious about the sport to get one, or like to make a fashion statement.

 

[X-fan]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSSamurai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This gets asked on a regular basis, and almost every time the answer is the same. Those who have actually used an S&B can tell you that it is that much better than the others. Not just glass, they fail less than other brands, and are more consistent across the board. I've had two and will own more in the future. </div></div>

Optically S&B is in a different class than NF...No question.
Saying they fail less that NF is wrong on my experience.

I own S&B glass from new to dating back 30 years (yes I bought it new) and while the glass has always been superior the sealing/internals (IMHO) are not at the same level as Nightforce...Perhaps not even Leupold where it comes to weather sealing of hunting scopes.

Keep in mind that I live in one of the wettest, roughest, and climatically extreme places on earth. If there is a weakness in the scope I will find it in days.

All that aside as a 30 year vet of S&B I highly recommend them. Customer service that can only be described as first class and they are a visual treat to the eye. Worth every dime.

 

[Asm1]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I thought I was the Only Guy that had Gold Fish in his scope! My question is How the hell do I feed them ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: X-fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSSamurai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This gets asked on a regular basis, and almost every time the answer is the same. Those who have actually used an S&B can tell you that it is that much better than the others. Not just glass, they fail less than other brands, and are more consistent across the board. I've had two and will own more in the future. </div></div>

Optically S&B is in a different class than NF...No question.
Saying they fail less that NF is wrong on my experience.

I own S&B glass from new to dating back 30 years (yes I bought it new) and while the glass has always been superior the sealing/internals (IMHO) are not at the same level as Nightforce...Perhaps not even Leupold where it comes to weather sealing of hunting scopes.

Keep in mind that I live in one of the wettest, roughest, and climatically extreme places on earth. If there is a weakness in the scope I will find it in days.

All that aside as a 30 year vet of S&B I highly recommend them. Customer service that can only be described as first class and they are a visual treat to the eye. Worth every dime. </div></div>

 

[Asm1]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I just went threw a side by side day light shoot with my own scopes. PMII 5-25X56 and NXS 8X32X56 at 500 yards with both set on 25x I could see bullet holes in a plate wish I did not see that, Anyway the Bigest advantage that day for the PMII was the larger looking image, I could see more and see it easier less tube looking. Positional shooting the PMII was the kit to have hands down, from the bench I found the NXS parallax faster and easier to set than the PMII. At night around Urbane Lights the PMII did have better Image and gather more image than the NXS, but I have the Night Vision you know ?.

I have used NXS scopes 30+ and some have better glass than others, just the way it is, But they all tracks like tanks and will do what you tell it to do, Thats the most Important thing in any scope !.

PMII Tracking record is Good also, the Glass is Crazy Nice,But it will not make you any better than you are, But enhance how you see it.

 

[PRMAN45ACP]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

What about Premier? Comparison with S&B.I want to buy 1, but don't know about them.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PRMAN45ACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about Premier? Comparison with S&B.I want to buy 1, but don't know about them.</div></div>

Scroll back a few pages. This comes up monthly if not weekly and always turns into a pissing match as most this vs that posts do. Plenty to read here. Use the Google search feature to the right as well.

 

[braso]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I compared Schmidt to NXS at the range and found the S&B to be brighter. Also compared USO, S&B, and Premier side by side as the sun went down, looking back into the dark area of the trees along a river @ 400 yds. the Schmidt lasted the longest, being able to see details on the tree bark.
I like the bells and whisles on the Premiere but hate the paralex, it's touchy at full zoom and has no yardage numbers for a quick general focus.
The S&B is the only one that will focus down inside of ten yards and that has paid off at several matches.
Worth the extra $$, thats personal opinion, there are a lot of great scopes out there and I personaly prefer the Schmidt.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

After spending half a day at their service center I can tell you they are on a whole different level than the rest and ive been to most of the service centers of optics companies..The downside is they cant make enough scopes to keep up with demand because of their size so they catch a lot of flak.

 

[Mike]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

S&B is the best

 

[bengates]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

It makes me sad to hear this because I had the same question several years ago, and didn't listen to sound wisdom. I then wasted lots of money trying to prove that any glass is good glass. I then got an S&B and it ruined me forever. I wish I just saved for the S&B the first time instead of buying - 6 USO's, 2 NF's, 1 IOR, 3 Leupold's, 1 Zeiss. I have now had 4 of S&B's and am currently running two 5-25x56's. They are fantastic and I never have to worry about them not holding up. If I miss, it's my fault - not the optic.

 

[reloader-1]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Yes.

Definitely Yes.

Absolutely Yes.

You will kick yourself for ever buying anything else once you get one.

 

[Heltsley]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?


YES, but it takes you years to shoot as good as the scope can see....

 

[totenkopf]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I agree, the Schmidts I've used and owned (7 models now) have proven themselves over and over to be accurate and resistant to MY abuses while hunting. In the military I used the Unertl 10x and various Leuplods (Ultra and MK4) and the Unertl was a bullet proof scope but heavy and not useful with the SIMRADs of the period. Now after talking to my ”Brothers” in the field they seem to love the Schmidt models. Just my observations….

 

[jake6547]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I think i'm sold -now i need to sell my NF to fund the upgrade. Thanks for all of your differnt point of views.

 

[Break Bad]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

They are probably all S&B employees / stock holders...don't listen to them.

j/k

My current and first descent scope, a Vortex PST 6-24, I am amazed with after only shooting 100 rounds. Then a guy at the range let me drive his 260 with a S&B for 5 rounds, even a noob like me can appreciate the quality.

Sell some blood to offset the tears.

 

[Scot_E]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I am a bit surprised that most of the posts to this thread are only talking about glass quality and not the other more important factors that a scope must have first. Maybe that is what the OP wanted to know about. I would be very curious to hear what S&B owners have to say about durability and specifically turret repeatability. I haven't had the luxury of owning a S&B but from what I have gathered they aren't built like NF or Premier as far as turret repeatability is concerned.

Scot E.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a bit surprised that most of the posts to this thread are only talking about glass quality and not the other more important factors that a scope must have first. Maybe that is what the OP wanted to know about. I would be very curious to hear what S&B owners have to say about durability and specifically turret repeatability. I haven't had the luxury of owning a S&B but from what I have gathered they aren't built like NF or Premier as far as turret repeatability is concerned.

Scot E. </div></div>

In my research prior to ordering I have found very few issues with S&B tracking problems (there are some). However I haven't found any for NF of which I own two. The primary reasons I went with S&B over NF are:
1- Glass quality
2- Front Focal Plane with an upper mag range of OVER 15x (I'm a mag whore and am tired of waiting for the NF Beast)
3- CS Reputation

The way I figure it is S&B has won numerous military contracts including a recent PSR contract with the US. If it's good enough for them to put their lives on the line, it's good enough for me to shoot paper and steel! That being said I still intend to do a tracking test when I get mine in. Remember- trust but verify.


With regards to Premier vs. S&B that's a pissing match and while I've heard of Premier having turret issues* that is not the reason I personally chose S&B. I chose S&B because I had the opportunity to look through one and fell in love. I doubt I'll ever regret my decision.



*It should be noted that I am 100% sure that the guy who posted a picture of a Premier turret falling off was taken care of by Premier and do not hold that against them.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Here's the question that matters to me. What scope wins the most competitions: tactical, benchrest, F-Class, whatever. Most of us know the answer to that question: Nightforce (or Leupold). You can quibble about which high-end scope is better, but only one of the top scopes is 1/2 the price or less. Value is the intersection of performance and price. NF provides the best value available: price less than half the competition while winning the most events.

Now, if money were no object, I'd get a March...

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Just because it wins more in comps doesn't make it the best. I bet there's 25x the people who own a Leupold than a S&B or Premier. Scopes don't magicailly enable a person to hit a target either. The only time I've been able to look through a Premier was when a guy at the range couldn't get it zeroed, his zero stop was set up from the previous owner. Of course with his shooting he would have done just as well with a centerpoint from Wally world. There wasn't any two shots closer than about 3 inches @100yds. I wish he would have sold it to me, I had never looked through anything with that kind of clarity.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

to sum it up yes... There have been threads like this that have gone into great detail.

At the end of the day you have to do a quick cost benefit analysis and make a decision.

Its hard to stomach the initial purchase but once you start using it you will fall in love.

Another note is that S&B's really do well to retain their value. They are borderline investments. If you dont like it 6months-year just sell it and get your money back.

Also it should be noted that S&B is made of 7075 aluminum whereas most others are 6061 (NF and Leupold I know of for sure)

 

[808H200321]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I know a little off topiC...but this thread got me thinking why is it that the Marines choose S&B, but Naval Special Warfare is sticking with NF....what's interesting is NSW/SOCOM has more money to play with and usually has a lot more flexibility....thoughts???

 

[Rob01]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't had the luxury of owning a S&B but from what I have gathered they aren't built like NF or Premier as far as turret repeatability is concerned.

Scot E. </div></div>

Then you have gathered wrong. The main reason I run the S&B is because of it's reliability and repeatable tracking. I have owned about 8 or so in my life and have tested all and they all tracked dead on. Can't say that about some other scopes.

S&B gives the whole package in great glass, reliability, repeatable tracking, excellent reticle choices and a proven military toughness. Just because they are refined and don't feel like a truck axle doesn't mean they aren't tough.

I am not going to say it's the best or the one you have to have as everyone needs different things but it's the scope I trust and would use over any other.

 

[bengates]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot E</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I would be very curious to hear what S&B owners have to say about durability and specifically turret repeatability. I haven't had the luxury of owning a S&B but from what I have gathered they aren't built like NF or Premier as far as turret repeatability is concerned.

Scot E. </div></div>

S&B are the benchmark for which other scopes are compared. You will never have tracking problems with the S&B's, and any issues that you've heard of might be related to the older Premier serviced S&B's that were put out with some inferior components due to supply delays - it's old news. Rob01 is right; don't let it's refined exterior detract from it's rugged interior and repeatability.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

S&B's are great in all regards. We tend to focus on glass and extrnal finish, but they are just as good inside IMO. I do like the little NF that they quit making and wish S&B would make a similar scope. The 1-8 is not that similar, has features I do not need and lacks on the top end.

 

[25MAN]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I recall reading somewhere...and please correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the Schmidt&Benders the only scopes to pass every phase of the military standard testing they put different brand scopes through before approving them for a military contract?

I could have sworn I read that in one of the posts...if that is the case that truly proves how reliable and tough they are compared to the rest.

and before someone jumps all over this post...I am asking the question if that is a fact, I am not making a statement

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

Not worth it and not needed at all from a cost stand point. They will not make you shoot better.. just like a Ferrari will not make you drive faster.. however, my NEXT SCOPE IS GOING TO BE AN S&B. I already made up my mind on this =)

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

I would like to add that I see from 75-100 scopes a year on my range, setting up rifles for friends etc. Many are high recoil rifles getting ready for safari. Several each year are bad. Many have bouncing reticules. Anyone interested can PM for the name of an expensive brand that is 100% faulty. I do not want the blast them on the net, but good glass can be misleading. BTW they do not make a tactical scope.
I had a bad one last week. It was a Leupold. 6.5x20. The guy had bought if from a place that installs custom reticules and markets them as part of a long range shooting program. Placed or had placed some big decal marking on the objective bell. The guy was in shock as he was a fan of whole deal.
I have never seen a bad S&B.

 

[springer01]

Re: Are S&B scopes really that much better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not worth it and not needed at all from a cost stand point. They will not make you shoot better.. just like a Ferrari will not make you drive faster.. however, my NEXT SCOPE IS GOING TO BE AN S&B. I already made up my mind on this =)</div></div>

Pretty sure a Ferrari would make me drive faster!!