Rifle Scopes Are some leveling bubbles better than others?

[Manowar5150]

So I'm looking to level my reticles on several guns, and I'd like to use bubbles. However, reading Amazon reviews and stuff I've found that alot of people say that it's all Chinese crap and you can't rely on their accuracy, from almost any manufacturer, including Wheeler? Does anyone have any particular brands they like, or know of any that work better than others? Or is one as good as the other?

 

[A&8's]

I don't use scope mounted levels anymore, but when I did, I used Accuracy 1st levels. Pricey, but nice.

 

[shoobe01]

Well first, yes, the bubble tube can be itself not level, the marks not scribed right, etc. But once you get to a basic level of quality, there are speeds, wobble, and responsiveness. So, levels for various normal construction/machining/etc. work are all different. Usually, they do not describe the attributes but just build the bubble to be suitable to the type of work you are doing.

I don't know which one I'd want for a rifle, but trust others who say they work well, and for example have been very happy with the other SH member's level in every way, and updated to that one:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-ya-like-my-new-scope-level.6879207/#post-7012220

It seems @Tyler Kemp does understand what the bubble requirements are, so may be able to provide some insights, aside from just saying to buy his

 

[Steel head]

I like the accuracy 1st.

 

[Jack Master]

An air bubble in a liquid should always show true level. I use the cheapest damn bubble I can find. ($4 on Amazon at times) Then after mounting the bubble level I mark the center of the bubble with a sharpie. Every few months when the rifle is on the wok bench I'll double check the level to make sure its good.
My biggest advice, if you're going to get a bubble level, is to get one that mounts on the scope body. This way your can cant the rifle but have the scope level if your shooting style needs it. Plus once the bubble is set I can drop the scope in and out of rings without having to plumb the bubble to the scope again. (AKA Avoid the rail mounted levels) Just my opinion.

 

[Mortalpawn]

As others have pointed out the Accuracy 1st scope level is superior to a traditional bubble level in terms of settling time and its also well made and accurate. However its important how you level it with the scope reticle (see below).

The cheap chinese bubbles on Amazon are not that great. For example, I lined about four of them up on the rail of one gun and then all gave slightly different readings. I ended up having to "average" them to determine if the gun was level. If you want to get an accurate level for a surface you really need to purchase a "machinist level".

Going back to the scope level like Accuracy 1st, the most important thing is making sure your reticle is vertical when the bubble is level. The proper way to do this is to use a plumb line set at 50 or 100 yards on a calm day. Align the scope perfectly with the plumb line, then have a friend align and tighten the scope level so your reticle is perfectly vertical when the scope bubble reads level.

Once the reticle and scope level are aligned you can then use a regular level to level it with the rail.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

@Tyler Kemp are you going to run a Black Friday deal???

 

[Tyler Kemp]

@Tyler Kemp are you going to run a Black Friday deal???

Yes. Free carbon fiber throw lever with billet levels. Shhhh don't tell anyone.

Also, I think you'll find the level in mine just as sensitive as a ceramic vial. Tested with an electronic level it is sensitive to under 1°even when cold.

 

[Lowlight]

 

[tlsmith22]

Wow..

I like Tyler’s pretty well

 

[Jack Master]

View attachment 7186234

Think about what this Photo shows you. Realy think about it.

This photo only shows me each level can be different. That is okay. As long as the one bubble you are using has been trued to you and your reticle and it can repeat its Level spot, its a good level. I know you hate them Frank, but some of us need/like them.
I can also do this with 4 different $200 building levels

 

[Lowlight]

It's not that hate levels, it's much more nuanced than that ...

I don't like the fact people use them incorrectly

I don't like the fact people are paying over $100 for some

I don't like the fact, all the advocates that say, you NEED a level to successfully engage targets sell levels at inflated prices.

A properly set up and correctly used level is fine in my opinion, but this is akin to finding a unicorn with 99% of their owners.

 

[memilanuk]

Oh, c'mon... obviously that rail has some serious warpage going on. Nothing wrong with the levels!

On a (slightly) more serious note, a quick-n-dirty way to check whether your level if okay or fubar is to swap it end for end 180°. If it shows the same amount of deflection in the same direction, then the level should be GTG. Otherwise, pitch / return it and get something better. Little harder to do with the levels we put on our scopes, with the contoured bodies and whatnot, but handy for checking whatever reference level you may be using to square up the gun prior to mounting the scope.

 

[Rob01]

I use a Vortex LoPro. Not overly expensive and easy to install. Got it set so I can see it right over the parallax knob when behind the scope.

As Frank said they aren't needed to shoot accurately at long range as we did it for many years without them but if you wanted one to they can pick one up. Set up right they work if you want to check level. The scope mounted are my choice as I have seen to many rail based models be off due to machining tolorences. With the scope mounted you make sure everything is level when installing.

 

[AIAW]

I’ve tested a few of my Spuhr mount built-in levels and they hold very true - unfortunately, to the rail only. Spuhr rings are so thick that there a very few options (if any - haven’t checked in a long time) for some scopes... S&B 5-25’s for instance. No real-estate left on the tube for them. Flatline’s are pretty popular among some users I have noticed.

A good document on cant to check out is in the resources section: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/resources/estimation-of-shot-error-due-to-rifle-cant.22/

 

[10ring'r]

Maybe I'm a fool, but when I install a scope on a rifle, I first level the surface, then when the surface is made to be level (carpenters metal level used), I lay all three levels that I'm going to use and make sure they match up, when that checks sat., I leave the carpenters level in place, level the gun with one bubble level, leaving it in place, mount the scope and level the reticle with a plumb-bob, then place another bubble level on the top turret (obviously), check that bubble level, then carefully torque the rings, then look at all 3 levels, along with the plumb-bob, and hope all is well, if not, I start all over again. When/if everything checks out, I attach the Anti-cant level, set it and forget it. Shit ton of work for a recreational shooter, LoL! Mac
ETA: I have only used Wheeler bubble levels and Mounting Solutions, Vortex anti-cant devices, sorry folks.

 

[tspinaker]

I just a cheap level to level the rifle and I level the retile of the scope with a plumb-bob. That's just what I do for mounting a scope, but it would be nice to have a good quality picatinny mount level to keep on the gun.

 

[makaug]

I like the Stabila pocket level, fairly inexpensive (~$20) and plenty accurate. It won't fit under a scope, but depending on the type of rifle and your methodology it can work well.

 

[trob]

I started using them when I found out the natural level in my head was off. The reticle seemed perfect when I looked through the scope, but it was actually canted.
I started using a level that was triple checked to be correct. To check it, I shouldered the rifle and leveled the reticle so it looked perfect to my eye, like I had always done. When I checked the bubble, it was way off, so I straightened it out and now the reticle looked canted to me. I switched to lefty and looked through the scope again, while leveling it off the bubble, so it was correct. The damn reticle was canted the other way.......so I use a level on all my centerfire rifles because I can’t tell when it’s actually canted.

I have the cheaper $30 vortex bubble level on one of my rifles, and two of the $40 vortex lo-pro bubbles on others. I like the look of the lo-pro, but I also like the performance. It acts differently and the way the smaller bubble moves, it seems more precise. I can’t see myself spending more than $40, they both work well.

 

[Datsrboi]

I learn to use mine only as a reference to retrain my body to remember that position. I try not to depend on it anymore

 

[cake5150]

When properly mounted and zeroed to a plumb bob, most any of the tube-mounted variety should work. I like the Lone Star levels from Amazon.

 

[sirdavid]

Yes. Free carbon fiber throw lever with billet levels. Shhhh don't tell anyone.

Also, I think you'll find the level in mine just as sensitive as a ceramic vial. Tested with an electronic level it is sensitive to under 1°even when cold.

Can you post a link to where you sell things?

 

[Glassaholic]

Not sure I can add anything more than what's been already said. If you work on your fundamentals and get your natural hold repeatable then you should not require a bubble; however, getting your natural hold repeatable may not be as easy as it sounds (this is where dry firing can be very beneficial - to build muscle memory through repeatability). I still use a bubble level but more for reference (because I still need work on my fundamentals). I used to use Vortex Lo Pro levels but am switching to MK Machining billet level, they are a little more expensive than the Vortex but are built better.

For more about natural hold and vestibular sense, check out Thom Haugland's video below (the link should start around the 3:15 mark)

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Can you post a link to where you sell things?

Find a bunch here! Aluminum Scope/Rail levels for what you're after:

Home

MK Machining manufactures high quality throw levers, AR500 targets, reloading trays, and more. Modular Remington 700 bullpup chassis coming soon!

mkmachining.com

 

[IowaGeologist]

Yes. Free carbon fiber throw lever with billet levels. Shhhh don't tell anyone.

Also, I think you'll find the level in mine just as sensitive as a ceramic vial. Tested with an electronic level it is sensitive to under 1°even when cold.

Damn, just picked one up on Labor Day and missed the deal. Oh well, very happy with your billet level, machining and finish are great. Checked every possible way I could think of and it appears to be about as consistent to the rail as I could possibly ask for. Would definitely recommend.

 

[sirdavid]

Find a bunch here! Aluminum Scope/Rail levels for what you're after:

Home

MK Machining manufactures high quality throw levers, AR500 targets, reloading trays, and more. Modular Remington 700 bullpup chassis coming soon!

mkmachining.com

Which one would you recommend for a Vortex Razor II on a 50 bmg semi-auto?

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Which one would you recommend for a Vortex Razor II on a 50 bmg semi-auto?

Personally, Pro Series Lever, Billet 34mm Level. Billet throw lever if you just like nice metal!

 

[mrtoyz]

The Send It electronic level has worked fantastic for me

 

[Alpine 338]

This is my favorite. High precision level vile installed inside a machined clear plastic body that screws onto the cross bolt of the mount. Made for the Near Alpha Mount.

 

[Alpine 338]

PR2 Tactical is my favorite Picatinny mount level.

 

[Guthwine]

Going back to the scope level like Accuracy 1st, the most important thing is making sure your reticle is vertical when the bubble is level. The proper way to do this is to use a plumb line set at 50 or 100 yards on a calm day. Align the scope perfectly with the plumb line, then have a friend align and tighten the scope level so your reticle is perfectly vertical when the scope bubble reads level.

Once the reticle and scope level are aligned you can then use a regular level to level it with the rail.

I personally do not use the reticle as a reference but the turret/the mechanical adjustment itself. Otherwise you will get a windage adjustment everytime you adjust for elevation if the reticle itself is canted inside the scope (within its tolerances, which can be up to 1° in my experience). Surely a small error but still.

 

[sirdavid]

I'm using this mount, so whatever level I use it needs to work with that:
GDI P-ROM L-Model (Rifle Optic Mount) 34mm 25 MOA

 

[Glassaholic]

I personally do not use the reticle as a reference but the turret/the mechanical adjustment itself. Otherwise you will get a windage adjustment everytime you adjust for elevation if the reticle itself is canted inside the scope (within its tolerances, which can be up to 1° in my experience). Surely a small error but still.

And one of the issues that some face is that unless you have a stock with an adjustable butt plate you will not hold your rifle perfectly perpedicular to the horizon, almost all of us naturally cant the rifle to fit our shoulder pocket, so if you mount the scope so it is perfectly level to the action/base and you cant the rifle you've now caused the same issue and have a canted reticle. This is why I tend to prefer the scope mounted levels because they can be adjusted to the scope's reticle itself regardless of any cant introduced by the shooter.

 

[motorcycleboy]

Think about what this Photo shows you. Realy think about it.

This photo only shows me each level can be different. That is okay. As long as the one bubble you are using has been trued to you and your reticle and it can repeat its Level spot, its a good level. I know you hate them Frank, but some of us need/like them.
I can also do this with 4 different $200 building levels

You’ve got some bad construction levels if that’s the case. I always check my construction levels by putting them on a level surface and turning the level 180* and make sure it reads the same. Only one of your levels can be correct (or none) if they all read different in the exact same spot. There is only one “level”. It is not subjective or variable.

 

[theLBC]

send it

 

[Nik H]

So I'm looking to level my reticles on several guns, and I'd like to use bubbles. However, reading Amazon reviews and stuff I've found that alot of people say that it's all Chinese crap and you can't rely on their accuracy, from almost any manufacturer, including Wheeler? Does anyone have any particular brands they like, or know of any that work better than others? Or is one as good as the other?

FlatlineOps makes a great one but it is very expensive. Accuracy 1st is also super good.

 

[Manowar5150]

Just saw this one pop up and might give it a go when it comes to the US. Easy to stow away to the side too.

PRODUCTS | Ulfhednar Gear

www.ulfhednar.no

View attachment 7202372

I like that one. Combo with a dope card. I'll keep an eye on them?