10- shot groups at 100 yards fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a Krieger barrel . . .
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Are there any AR 15’s made that you can count on shooting half MOA
- Thread starter Pwm1830
- Start date
Lots of rifles & shooters can get to .5" MOA with any given 3 shot groups..............that doesn't make level even serious enough to talk about.
Ten shot groups as MOLON poster or even 5x5's separate the pretenders from the contenders, both the man & the machine.
Lots of good advice in this old thread, though.
MM
Ten shot groups as MOLON poster or even 5x5's separate the pretenders from the contenders, both the man & the machine.
Lots of good advice in this old thread, though.
MM
Although this is an old thread, glad to see it resurrected. Some really great (and honest) posts. I have a bunch of AR's and have been shooting them for close to 20 years. Although I don't shoot a ton from the bench anymore, when I do I am always reminded how hard it is. To me it really seems to be about recoil management and if I get even a little sloppy about how much cheek pressure I put on the stock from shot to shot or how I get behind the rifle and put the butt of the stock on my rear bag, I inevitably get vertical stringing and the group opens up.
Also, I don't reload, so all my results are with factory ammo.
So I suppose all this is a long way of saying that consistently producing .5 MOA groups (i.e being able to average .5 MOA shooting 4-6, five shot groups) is pretty damn challenging for me, and based on the general lack of pictures to back up various internet claims, for most other shooters as well.
Having said that, I own at least one rifle where I can pretty consistently average around 1 MOA with factory ammo and maybe 25-30% of the time produce groups in the .5-.7" range. That rifle has a Compass Lake Engineering upper built with a Krieger barrel. My guess is that someone more talented and consistent than me could probably produce groups that average somewhere around .5-.7 MOA with this rifle, and with hand loads maybe get down to the OP desire for a consistent .5 MOA rifle.
Also, I don't reload, so all my results are with factory ammo.
So I suppose all this is a long way of saying that consistently producing .5 MOA groups (i.e being able to average .5 MOA shooting 4-6, five shot groups) is pretty damn challenging for me, and based on the general lack of pictures to back up various internet claims, for most other shooters as well.
Having said that, I own at least one rifle where I can pretty consistently average around 1 MOA with factory ammo and maybe 25-30% of the time produce groups in the .5-.7" range. That rifle has a Compass Lake Engineering upper built with a Krieger barrel. My guess is that someone more talented and consistent than me could probably produce groups that average somewhere around .5-.7 MOA with this rifle, and with hand loads maybe get down to the OP desire for a consistent .5 MOA rifle.
Honestly, 300 BLKOUT has been the most consistently accurate AR15 builds I’ve completed. Many shoot 1/2-3/4 MOA. Most of these are SBR length or pistol. Ammo is generally Barnes TTS 120. I would like to say it’s quality components, but then I throw together a PSA build with a generic barrel and it shoots surprisingly well too.
My .223 and 6.8’s are more difficult to tame. I won’t even bring up the 224 Valkyrie AR.
My .223 and 6.8’s are more difficult to tame. I won’t even bring up the 224 Valkyrie AR.
I own 3 JP Rifles, I have ( 1- LRP-07 & 2 JP - 15 ) and they are hands down the Most Accurate, Highest Quality, 100% Reliable and Handles like No Other AR.
Now I also have a Nemo Arms Battle Light Rifle and it is close but there is just something about a JP Rifle built by the JP People that is just SPECIAL.
Now I also have a Nemo Arms Battle Light Rifle and it is close but there is just something about a JP Rifle built by the JP People that is just SPECIAL.
Is there a thread for the complete rifle build? What chamber in that Krieger? Or is it pretty basic and just killer ammo. Love your barrel tests especially the Lothar one wow is it impressive!10- shot groups at 100 yards fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a Krieger barrel . . .
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My chrome-lined NATO chambered barrels are sub 1/2 MOA using steel-cased, bi-metal jacketed Wolf ammunition!
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Yup, one single 3 shot group is always how I judge all my guns.
200 yds, so 0.23 MOA when math done. By this measure, a 16" Sabre with Armscor 62 gr ball fired offhand prone (no bag) monopodding off the mag, RDS + 3x magnifier, is the highest precision gun I own.
Earlier this year I was spotting for a friend after we re-assembled his Cross (painted, did some accessorizing), went to re-zero it. First shot cut the center out of the target. Maybe as much as 1/16" up and right. I think my call was "Hit. Pack it up. Every other shot today will be disappointing compared to that."
Earlier this year I was spotting for a friend after we re-assembled his Cross (painted, did some accessorizing), went to re-zero it. First shot cut the center out of the target. Maybe as much as 1/16" up and right. I think my call was "Hit. Pack it up. Every other shot today will be disappointing compared to that."
I've owned several Krieger builds. 16", 20" and 24". 1:9" and 1:7.7" twists. 223 Remington and 5.56 Match chambers.
The Essentials of an Accurate AR-15
Without making this overly complicated, you need three basic components for a semi-automatic AR-15 to produce its best mechanical accuracy (technically, precision): a match-grade barrel, a quality free-float handguard and match-grade ammunition, preferably hand-loads tuned for your barrel. (The free-float handguard doesn’t add to the accuracy of the barrel per se, it simply prevents any outside influence from detracting from the accuracy of the barrel.) Anything after that will not immensely improve the mechanical accuracy of the semi-automatic AR-15, but several things can help you, the shooter, shoot to the level of the intrinsic accuracy of your semi-automatic AR-15.
While there are certainly gifted individuals among us that can do amazing things with iron sights, most of us will benefit from using a quality, high-power scope to achieve the highest level of accuracy/precision from an AR-15. In order to hit the exact same spot on the target every time, you have to be able to see that you are holding on the exact same spot every time. It’s also important for the scope to be mounted at the proper height and at the correct eye-relief for the particular scope. One of the most common errors I see with scopes mounted on AR-15s is the scope not being mounted far enough forward for its eye-relief.
In order to maintain that exact hold on the target throughout the trigger pull, it helps not to be fighting with a heavy, gritty, stock trigger. There are a variety of aftermarket triggers now on the market for both standard size trigger pins and the larger Colt trigger pins. Personal preference will definitely play a role in trigger selection. Among the two-stage triggers, I’ve found the Geissele High Speed National Match triggers to be the smoothest, lightest, most consistent and most reliable.
Following the scope and trigger selection, some shooters will find that items like aftermarket grips and stocks will help them achieve a better “fit” with their AR-15. (Shooters don’t all come in the exact same size and shape.) Once you’ve put your accurate rig together, you have to find a match-grade factory load that your barrel “likes” or better yet, develop a match-grade handload for it.
A semi-automatic AR-15 is not going to shoot to the same level as a precision bolt-gun, but today’s precision AR-15s are capable of a level of accuracy/precision that is truly outstanding for a semi-automatic rifle. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from one of my Krieger barreled semi-automatic AR-15s from a distance of 100 yards. I used hand-loaded Berger 62 grain HPs for this group, which has an extreme spread of 0.467 MOA.
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I have a larue and a wilson that both shoot sub moa, but neither with the same ammo. My work gun is a la rue with Faxon match series 223 wylde 1 in 8 barrel. It seems to be the least picky with factory ammo.
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