Are there any Sharps Shooters here?

[jbell]

That is a bad ass picture! I enjoy it every time I see it!

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[Dog&Jeep]

Dog and Jeep,
A little BP cartridge loading primer. For good cast bullet performance you will need a proper neck expanding die. Lee sells them as well as Lyman. The plugs may be bought the diameter of your sized bullet. They do not flair the case, but give an even neck expansion the seating depth of your bullet. Being a Cheap Charlie, I use this same die to compress my powder. More on that latter. Cast your bullets soft, no wheel weights. Pure lead to 19 or 20 to 1, tin to lead. The proper lube is very important. I use SPG lube. There are whole books written on proper lubes with many a secret recipe. SPG is good and available. I use WW MAG primers, they are the hottest. The secret to BP accuracy is the amount of powder compression. BP works best when SLIGHTLY and consistently compressed. Determine the seating depth of your bullet, mark the case. Fill with BP to 1/16" to 1/8" above the mark. You get more powder into the case if you use a 2 to 3' drop tube. Run the case thru your neck expanding die and it will compress the powder, to the base of the bullet. I've used FFFG, and FFG granulations. FFFG burns cleaner and for me better. The rest you know. Good luck and have fun!
For smokeless loads I've used IMR 4198, and 3031, but recently discovered AA 5744. That is my go to powder now. My advice is to just start with 5744. I do not have a charge to give you as I just got some this winter, and winter is no time to work up a load. I hope this helps.

Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Rlbol]

I can't contribute to much to your choices. However I can tell you me experience. Being an AI shooter with only very high tech modern rifles and optics and kit. I have always loved the qugily movie. I happen to see a pederaoli 45/70 listed in the for sale section on here. The price was right. So I bought it!

It turns out to be a Remington rolling block reproduction with 28" heavy oct. barrel and pedersoli verner type sights. After 2 range trips I am in love!! So far I have only shoot factory loads through it. I reload but know nothing about black powder. My only complaint is the trigger! It is heavy and a single trigger. When I buy another it will have a single set or double set trigger!!

If I had to do it all over again, I would get which ever pedersoli rifle you like that has a good adjustable trigger and not have a second thought!

Even with a heavy trigger the rifle shoots amazing! 10x10 steel at 300yards is no problem. I can't wait to stretch it out to farther distances!! I never thought I would be collecting Dope on a 45/70!
As far as the riffle shooting, I also have a marlin guide gun in 45/70 and it kicks like mule. The pedersoli is like shooting a moderern 308. I cont believe the difference!

on a nother note! Can anyone suggest a website, or place to find more info on the verner type sights? I know nothing about seti g them up, zeroing as well as adjusting for distances. My searches have come up with little however I am sure it is due to me search words.

good luck with what ever you chose!

 

[RedRyder]

I never met a 45/70 I didn't like.

 

[Old Soldier]

For info on tang sights and how to use them as well as PB load data and info to the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) site. Careful the BP bug bites hard.

 

[FlashAndPoof]

Hopefully I'm not thread jacking, but I'm considering the Sharps rifle. Really wanting a 45/70 single shot rifle and currently deliberating between a Trapdoor, Rolling Block, Sharps, or Winchester High Wall. Sounds like Pedersoli is the best for quality and shootability for the dollar, right? It also appears that they make each of the rifles I'm considering. Only thing that makes me hesitate is that original Trapdoors and Rolling Blocks can be found for actually less than modern replicas. Is that right??

 

[Dog&Jeep]

Since I started the thread and I don't consider this thread jacking, I'd say you're good.

Which to get? Too many personal variables to consider. I got a Sharps because that's what was calling to me the loudest. At some point in the future, I'll probably own a High Wall as well.

I went with a modern production replica for convenience sake. I want the option to shoot smokeless powder if need be. Having an original would sure be cool though.

 

[Old Soldier]

A good original 84 model trapdoor goes for about a grand. As far as I'm concerned they are a real bargain . If you get a Trap door you will want an 1884 model as they have the Buffington rear site, which is windage adjustable. There is an outfit called Trap Doors Galore, that often has a good selection, but he is REAL PROUD of them. It is a good place to look at the different models and comparative price. There a lot of good 84's out there. They were National Guard guns and did not see much use. If you have more interest in a TD. let me know, and I'll give you a TD 101 class.
If you buy a Repro, it will always be a repro. Shoot it , modify it, enjoy it. If U buy an original, you will have a shooting collectable. BUT, you also have the responsibility to preserve it for the future. You do not own an original, you are only it's care taker. That means no tang sites, scope mounts, sanding the stock, re blueing etc. I have several original's, and I shoot my originals, but they don't go out in the rain. They don't get tied to the 4 wheeler, or thrown into the boat. For that I have repos.
The highwall is a wonderful gun. It's rugged, accurate, well balanced, and comes in many calibers.
Don't discount the Martini Henry. Atlanta Cutlery has them. They found them in an old armory in India. Get a beat up one and re barrel it, to a more useful cartridge.Or keep the original barrel, and sleeve it. I know that this goes against what I said above, but the MH's are in pretty rough shape.
I have a rolling Block action that I plan on turning into a rifle this spring, if $ will allow. They are all great fun. But it will be heavy, cuz I have to have a 1 1/8" barrel to get it to fit the action.
Decisions, decisions. So many fine rifles, so little time and money. Don't even start to look into British single shots or double rifles. That is a real expensive bug to get bit by!
Go to the Black Powder Cartridge forum for more info. on the different rifles.

 

[bobtodrick]

Ordered a Pedersoli Sharps Carbine in 45-70 beginning of December...just arrived two weeks ago.
Well worth the wait.
Only been out with it a couple of times, but it has quickly become my favorite 'plinking' rifle (though don't know if $40 box for ammo and 'plinking' belong in the same sentence).
Bought it primarily to teach hunting to my two young sons (13 &15) who are going on their first deer hunts this fall. Want to teach them the basics...iron sight, stalk to within 100yds and single shot.

 

[FlashAndPoof]

A good original 84 model trapdoor goes for about a grand. As far as I'm concerned they are a real bargain . If you get a Trap door you will want an 1884 model as they have the Buffington rear site, which is windage adjustable. There is an outfit called Trap Doors Galore, that often has a good selection, but he is REAL PROUD of them. It is a good place to look at the different models and comparative price. There a lot of good 84's out there. They were National Guard guns and did not see much use. If you have more interest in a TD. let me know, and I'll give you a TD 101 class.
If you buy a Repro, it will always be a repro. Shoot it , modify it, enjoy it. If U buy an original, you will have a shooting collectable. BUT, you also have the responsibility to preserve it for the future. You do not own an original, you are only it's care taker. That means no tang sites, scope mounts, sanding the stock, re blueing etc. I have several original's, and I shoot my originals, but they don't go out in the rain. They don't get tied to the 4 wheeler, or thrown into the boat. For that I have repos.
The highwall is a wonderful gun. It's rugged, accurate, well balanced, and comes in many calibers.
Don't discount the Martini Henry. Atlanta Cutlery has them. They found them in an old armory in India. Get a beat up one and re barrel it, to a more useful cartridge.Or keep the original barrel, and sleeve it. I know that this goes against what I said above, but the MH's are in pretty rough shape.
I have a rolling Block action that I plan on turning into a rifle this spring, if $ will allow. They are all great fun. But it will be heavy, cuz I have to have a 1 1/8" barrel to get it to fit the action.
Decisions, decisions. So many fine rifles, so little time and money. Don't even start to look into British single shots or double rifles. That is a real expensive bug to get bit by!
Go to the Black Powder Cartridge forum for more info. on the different rifles.

Thanks for that wealth of information. I'm 100% in agreement about not modifying or bubba'ing old guns. Guess I'm going to have to look up the history of these rifles and figure out which calls to me the most. I'll probably end up getting one of the Martini Henry's from IMA. Apparently Atlanta Cutlery sold their stock to IMA from what I can dig up. D'oh!

 

[Briggs]

This is in my area and I don't know the first thing about these. Any hidden gems here?

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/ph...ry=0&zip=&kwd=

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/au...063&category=0

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Day-um Briggs... that sale has some nice stuff in it.

buffalowinter Paging Buffalo... Buffalowinter, please pick up the white courtesy phone?

You anywhere near this place? Keeping in mind that 'near' by Texas standards could be a 2 day drive... .

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[buffalowinter]

About 5 hours from me, it's north of Dallas. Definitely some nice old guns, but I hate auctions, and I especially hate auctions in Texas. There is a lot of interest in old guns in Texas, and most are being sold by family estates where there is always an inflated idea as to values due to the family connection..."It's my great grand-daddys gun that he carried when he rode with John Wesley Hardin". Much prefer east coast auctions..."I found it in the attic, I don't want a gun in the house". Guns from Texas bring a premium in auctions due to the frontier old west connection...it's that way for a lot of things, not just guns. If you look at auction prices for old maps, maps from Texas are ridiculously priced compared to maps from New York.

 

[FatBoy]

If you look at auction prices for old maps, maps from Texas are ridiculously priced compared to maps from New York.

That's because to this day only 20% of Texans can read good thing they can shoot!

I went to one gun auction. Pistol Pete's went out of business in Oak Grove Ky. Only one gun there I was interested in. An original saddle Sharps. It was rode hard and looked it. At the time I was scrapping money together and $700 was a lot of money for me. Some of them cats knew what it was because the price shot up to $3k instantly. Needless to say I drove home empty handed.

Some beautiful rifles here. That Schutzen wood work is beautiful. Did you make the buttplate too? That rifle is really something.

 

[buffalowinter]

No, I didn't make the buttplate, it's from CPA.

 

[FatBoy]

No, I didn't make the buttplate, it's from CPA.

I thought for sure I'd get whacked for the Texas comment.


Do you shoot Schutzen? I would think cowboy action takes most of your training time but you have such a wide variety of kit...

 

[buffalowinter]

I mainly focus on Cowboy Mounted Shooting right now. For many years I was a Cowboy Action Shooter and won 12 World Championship titles. I have a couple of Mounted Shooting World Championship titles. In the 1980's thru '90's I was an International 3 Position shooter in Smallbore and 300m free Rifle. I have a National Record in International Smallbore 3 Position, aand several state championships titles. I shot for U.S. Forces Europe Shooting team from 1980 thru 1983.
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[packratt]

If you look at auction prices for old maps, maps from Texas are ridiculously priced compared to maps from New York.

That's because nobody wants a map of NY.

 

[Briggs]

Day-um Briggs... that sale has some nice stuff in it.

buffalowinter Paging Buffalo... Buffalowinter, please pick up the white courtesy phone?

You anywhere near this place? Keeping in mind that 'near' by Texas standards could be a 2 day drive... .

Cheers,

Sirhr

I am less than two hours away. My Dad is going to hit this one up. My experience has also been that estate sales net ridiculous prices for guns but you never know if that day will be the day you get a deal. I just don't know enough about these to know a good deal.

 

[Triggered]

Really wish I would had not found this thread....it is creating dangerous motives...

Had the chance to finally shoot a '74 Sharps in 45-70 a few months ago, and I was instantly hooked.

The Sharps always had been an icon rifle in my eye, and one of those low burning, constant desires to at least shoot one if I could at some point.

Got to run maybe about 15 rounds through an Italian repro and I was thoroughly impressed with the rifle and cartridge. No big distance shots, all standing at about 80ft or so, but I'm plenty aware of the capability for more.

Having gotten settled into the long range game over the past couple years, the Sharps was a very refreshing change from chassis-mounted, Hubble Telescope optic'd ultra-modern rifles back into a classic or traditional feeling of shooting.

Decided I would go with the Pedersoli Silhoutte model if I ever got serious about it... I prefer the shotgun style stock, double triggers, full octagonal barrel with the tangs / flip up rear versus the buckhorn. And for $1,500-ish, it's not unreasonable I think.

But 45-70 is an arm and a leg at the store, and you get to the whole "What am I going to do with a single shot 45-70 buffalo gun" question....

We'll see...started reloading, so that helps with ammo, and will hopefully sell my LWRC soon to free up some cash.

Cabela's is running a special (last time I looked) on their 74s, and I know the Business Model [good starter or no frills gun] was at $1,000 or so, which is under most whole-sale prices. Great deal for anyone looking.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

^^^ Welcome to the costliest section on SH. Because.... around here... the good stuff keeps getting snapped up.

To whit... I got (how many people?) buying .45 Marine SOCOM pistols... followed by 'Claine getting us to all buy Mk 13's... then there is Buffalo who has me shopping Scheutzens until I have to mortgage my Bentley to buy a good one... and we can't forget the Bisley's... because we all need one of those. And then there are the Israeli precision rifles and the Enfield Snipers.... and the KAR versions with the claw mounts.

Guarantee you... click on this section three times and you will end up with 11 years of credit card debt or spending the College fund.

But it's all worth it. Because the guns in here are awesome!

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. There are those St. Louis Thompsons... Buffalo and I have ours. Do you have yours? Yet????

 

[Dog&Jeep]

Been awhile since I gave an update here.
I shot my first handloads through my new Pedersoli last weekend. It was only 100 yards. I wanted to see where/if it was grouping.
The first shot went low. The second shot went wide to 9:00, The next 5 shots formed a 1.5 moa group 1 inch below POA. I'm going to assume the first two shots was just me needing to settle down. This is actually better than I thought my old eyes would be capable of. I'm really liking the Creedmore sights, but I want to get better ones than what Pedersoli sent me. I also want to find a true to period cheek pad to improve my weld.

The load is a 500gn hard-cast lead flat-nose over 35 gns of Reloder #9. It seems to work. I have a few other powders to experiment with (including Swiss black powder of course), as well as other bullet weights.

I've also acquired 4 different bullet molds and a luber/sizer press. All cast nice clean bullets.

I see what ya'll meant when you told me these things are addictive.

 

[Triggered]

^^^ Welcome to the costliest section on SH. Because.... around here... the good stuff keeps getting snapped up.

To whit... I got (how many people?) buying .45 Marine SOCOM pistols... followed by 'Claine getting us to all buy Mk 13's... then there is Buffalo who has me shopping Scheutzens until I have to mortgage my Bentley to buy a good one... and we can't forget the Bisley's... because we all need one of those. And then there are the Israeli precision rifles and the Enfield Snipers.... and the KAR versions with the claw mounts.

Guarantee you... click on this section three times and you will end up with 11 years of credit card debt or spending the College fund.

But it's all worth it. Because the guns in here are awesome!

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. There are those St. Louis Thompsons... Buffalo and I have ours. Do you have yours? Yet????

No joke... Just finished reading through that MK13 section and damn, talk about some history with those stocks and parts. Some of the paint combinations were incredible as well on the issued stocks.

Find myself doing the "don't need it, don't need it, don't need it" chant five times a day lately...too many toys are catching my eye.

 

[buffalowinter]

But they're investments...by the way, I have this is for sale on Gunbroker...Winchester 1885 in 45-90, giving it away for $1776

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[Triggered]

But they're investments...by the way, I have this is for sale on Gunbroker...Winchester 1885 in 45-90, giving it away for $1776

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You lost me at the 45-90, but then had me again after reading the GB ad and seeing it could take 45-70. Is the recoil similar of the High Wall to the Sharps? What's the Malcolm like, I have yet to come across one mounted up to handle on a rifle.

Absolutely beautiful rifle, I love the cheek piece on it. Did you do the wood work on the rifle like on some of your Schuetzen's? (You have a Schuetzen-esc K31 or Martini if I remember correctly?)

There's a trade in Win 1885 in 45-70 down the road for $1,000 that I noticed the other day. But NO, must behave myself.

 

[buffalowinter]

I did the stock work but am not especially proud of it. I found the wood used on e-bay and could only do so much as to correcting the wood to metal fit which wasn't the greatest...but it is a fantastic piece of wood. I put a piece of Ebony on it for a butt plate just to be different. Looks good, but I will say that the straight stock and no recoil pad make it rough to shoot. I would either put a nice red recoil pad on it or just a slip on leather recoil pad. Can't believe this hasn't sold at the buy it .I guess all the watchers are waiting for the last 15 minutes to start at the opening bid of $1350...then when the bidding starts someone will use the buy-it-now option. 45-90 is just a lengthened 45-70. You can shoot 45-70 in it...and I have...you just have a lot of free bore.

 

[Blueoval56]

I’m resurrecting this thread because I just bought my dream rifle. I’ve been searching for a used Shiloh Sharps that was within my budget and had the options I wanted for 10 years. Finally found it!

Shiloh Sharps 1874 Long Range Express 45-70(45-2.1), 30” full octagon, AA wood, pistol grip with cheek piece and shotgun butt. MVA #100 soule sights with MVA scope blocks. Also came with 300 pieces of brass.

Here’s some pics:

 

[TerryH]

Welcome to some real enjoyable shooting, no silly shiny shirts or worries about what tripod, just go shoot and enjoy!

Brgds Terry

 

[TerryH]

BTW, one’s Never enough , here’s my two, Axtel 45-70 top, Shiloh 40-65 below, 45-90 waiting to be shipped

 

[Blueoval56]

BTW, one’s Never enough , here’s my two, Axtel 45-70 top, Shiloh 40-65 below, 45-90 waiting to be shipped


View attachment 6910644

Those are gorgeous rifles!
And I agree, one isn’t enough haha. I have a 38-55 1885 Highwall with 30” #4 barrel as well.
My second Sharps will a Long Range Express in 45-2 7/8ths with a 34” heavy octagon. That’s my ultimate dream rifle but I started with the more sensible 45 first haha

 

[craigos]

BTW, one’s Never enough , here’s my two, Axtel 45-70 top, Shiloh 40-65 below, 45-90 waiting to be shipped


View attachment 6910644

Beautiful Axtel. Shiloh called me 2 weeks ago my 1877 i ordered in April 2014 is starting its production - 6 months. til then i shoot a 45-70 shiloh 1874

 

[SLG]

I tried not to open this thread when I saw it start, but I've now caved. I have a 45-70 Pedersolli "Quigly" rifle, that I bought from my FiL. He always wanted one and saved up for a few years to buy it. A few years after he got it, he decided he needed to sell it, so we took it off his hands in case he ever wants it back. It is a beautiful rifle, but very unpleasant to shoot, even with lighter loads. I suspect it is the straight grip, allowing a lot of torque, as Supersubes described. Anyone else find this to be true? I'm not recoil sensitive, and shoot 12g slugs for fun, often up to 60 or so in a session. That's not to say I like recoil, but it is generally pretty manageable. This 45-70 though, is just not fun. It doesn't hurt, but it moves so much, that I often bang up a finger and collapse the tang sight under recoil. My 18" Brockman 45-70 leverscout is much more pleasant to shoot, and it weighs about a third of the Pedersolli.

Anyone in the greater KC area have a Creedmoor I might try out? That looks like a great rifle and it might revive my interest in shooting these awesome pieces.

 

[TerryH]

SLG

Use a shoulder pad as the hard shotgun but plates normally found can be a bit unforgiving

You do not say if you are using smoless or BP, if the former I’ve found that to be more ‘snappy’ and yes unpleasant.

If I do use smokeless it is loaded to the same as BP velocities but Ive never achieved the accuracy with smokeless as I can with BP, 100m 5shot open sights

 

[SLG]

TerryH,

Its not the recoil on the shoulder that's the issue so much as the overall torque of the gun. Very hard to hold it in the same position form shot to shot, like I'm able to do with basically every other gun under the sun. The curved buttplate is clearly not helping though I shoot only factory ammo through it, so everything from Cowboy loads to Hornady, to a few dinosour crushers (never again).

That Creedmoor has really piqued my interest, especially as a lighter field gun. The single trigger, smaller guard, lighter weight and better ergos seem very attractive to my style of shooting.

What's the best field sight for these guns today? Hunting mostly, so speed, ruggedness and relative low light capability.

 

[PAYDIRT]

just bought this for my Dad's b day. It's a half pint chambered in 30-30. I just hope he enjoys it. Would like to have bought him the real deal but $$

 

[SLG]

just bought this for my Dad's b day. It's a half pint chambered in 30-30. I just hope he enjoys it. Would like to have bought him the real deal but $$View attachment 6910980

That's awesome! Details please. I'm sure he'll love it. If he doesn't, I'll dispose of it for him

eta: By details, I assume its a Chiappa, but I don't know if they only make one with fixed options or what.

 

[PAYDIRT]

That's awesome! Details please. I'm sure he'll love it. If he doesn't, I'll dispose of it for him

eta: By details, I assume its a Chiappa, but I don't know if they only make one with fixed options or what.

Yes it's a Chiappa, I haven't shot it yet. Giving it to him on the 16th of this month. If "break it in" before that I'll keep post a report. It seems pretty nice.

 

[Supersubes]

SLG

Use a shoulder pad as the hard shotgun but plates normally found can be a bit unforgiving

You do not say if you are using smoless or BP, if the former I’ve found that to be more ‘snappy’ and yes unpleasant.

If I do use smokeless it is loaded to the same as BP velocities but Ive never achieved the accuracy with smokeless as I can with BP, 100m 5shot open sights

View attachment 6910938

Looks like an 1877...when did you take delivery of that? Love it!

 

[SLG]

Sir: Thank you! That was the first bear hunt I participated in. He's a big boy, but he had a giant skull. It dry measured 20-2/16". It was the largest non-resident bear taken in Manitoba that year(2013).

Casting is a chore, but It's definitely satisfying to drop the hammer on them. I also enjoy tinkering with bullet shapes. I started out shooting the Lyman Postell (BACO mold, 530 gr). Then when I wanted to hunt, I had Brooks Moulds make me that flat nose greaser below. I wanted it identical to the postell but with a non-bore rider nose so I could load it in a dirty bore, and big ass meplat. I took that big bear with this bullet. It punched both shoulders and exited. It weighs 513gr. Once I started to paper patch, I used a Metford bullet, also a BACO mold. It weighs 513gr. I did take a bear with that one and all was well, but it's too pointy for my tastes. So I had brooks make me another mold, which is the bullet on the far right. That's the sample bullet, as I haven't had time to start tinkering with it. It came out a little heavy, about 550gr. Provided it shoots well, I should be able to kill anything on the planet with it. That little line in the middle is just a slight edge to be used for consistently aligning the patch.

Below are some more pics of the Creedmoor. Note the short lever, single trigger, and timed screws. They charged me $100 for the screws, but more than worth it IMO. This is extra fancy wood with the "hand select" option ($75). Cant remember what I specified for the hand select. I think it was "light colored with a vertical pattern" or something like that. It's got a penny front sight now, and I'm in the process of fabbing a rear barrel mount aperture sight. The factory buckhorn does not work well in low light. The target shows a three round group from 50 Yards. Cant recall if I blow-tubed between rounds or not.

.

I can't stop looking at that Creedmoor. Truly an awesome gun. I am dying to try one and see if the ergos are much better for me.

 

[TerryH]

Supersubs

Yes it’s a ‘77’ aka English Sharps, had it about 10 years, it is an Axtell which is the company Shiloh bought a few years back.
Real shooter with 510g BACo bullet

 

[sandwarrior]

Supersubs

Yes it’s a ‘77’ aka English Sharps, had it about 10 years, it is an Axtell which is the company Shiloh bought a few years back.
Real shooter with 510g BACo bullet

What is the rule in England on Blackpowder guns? I wondered if they have the '98 rule like us or something like it.