Hunting & Fishing Are we losing our hunting skills?

jsali

jsali

Private
Minuteman
May 16, 2005
41
5
Alberta, Canada
#1
I just figured I'd post this as a little food for thought. I've read a pile of threads the last few years about people asking "what's the best hunting bullet", "best hunting caliber", etc... It seems that people, especially the less experienced hunters are looking for technology to anchor their animals right there.

Now I've done my fair share of hunting just about everything in Canada up to and including moose. I've also seen these critters hunted with everything from a .243 up to a .375 and I gotta tell ya more often than not the animals live long enough to get themselves into some bush somewhere and hole up to die. Don't get me wrong these animals weren't poorly shot they simply refused to die right there. After all we are talking about extremely tough and resilient animals, they didn't survive natural selection by chance.

I remember not too long ago when the majority of big game were taken by 30-30's and .303 brits. The animals travelled just as far, took just as long to die, and almost always ended up in the freezer.

So I guess without getting too long winded what I'm trying to figure out is. In my experience I used to see alot less game lost before all the supermagnums and bonded bullets. Why are there so many now with all this technology? From what I've seen in the bush with other hunters it's my opinion that hunting skills (tracking, patience, etc...) are lacking in a big way. So why is this?

Now before you jump on me for being a hypocrit let me tell you that yes I do shoot some of these supermagnums however I have made every effort not to lose the hunting skills taught to me by my father and uncles.

Fire away I'm curious what the opinions are out there?

-John

 
#2
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

John,

Would have to agree with you there. Ive been hunting officially since I got my first permit at 17. A .22 Hornet. One of the best rifles I ever had. I took multiple large animals with it. The person who taught me what i know and by no means would I call myself an expert hunter always said to watch for the sign of a perticular animal... Always followed his words to the letter. because fairly proficient at "ahem" obtaining beasts from some nationals parks in ireland...

I went hunting some years ago while in Australia with some Aboriginal hunters and was ABSOLUTELY amazed at their skills. We could learn a lot from going back to basics.
 
#3
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Many "hunters", and I use the term loosely, attempt to supplement their lack of skill by shooting the biggest fastest caliber available to them. Personally I've seen that a well placed shot delivered on the animal kills. It is just that most can't deliver a well placed shot.
 
#4
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I have to agree also. I separate "Hunters" into two categories. The 1st. & most common is the "Killer". This is the guy that goes to the range the day before the season opens, & fires his humongous uber magnum 3 times, hitting the paper only once, & he's good to go. This guy is only out there to get drunk, & kill something, then brag about how "good" he is.
The second is the guys like "Us", who give the animal rights, & strive for perfection in every aspect of the hunt, from stalking, to shot placement.
Unfortunately, there are far more of the former, than the latter. I think that is due to the younger society that has no patients, & has no respect for anything, including themselves.
 
#5
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I've got to agree with that. I still have a firm belief that every hunter should have and practice the hunting skills that are required to get themself to the point of making an effective shot and then harvesting the game once the shot has been made.

Marksmanship is certainly a required skill but I think too many people are thinking that marksmanship is the only thing required.

I have witnessed too many people make a shot and then have no idea how to finish the job.

Is there a lack of training/mentoring going on? Is it that we are seeing more poeple getting into hunting with no one to teach them?

I can honestly say that this trend I am seeing concerns me from both an ethics, safety and conservation standpoint. For example here is a scenario I witnessed a few years ago:

Hunter is walking (should say stumbling) through the bush and spooks some deer. Hunter fires at the first deer he sees, the deer doesn't go down and disappears from sight, hunter switches to next deer and fires, and so on. I helped this hunter find the deer he knew was hit. A few hours later I come back to the spot where this hunter was cutting loose and find the first deer he had shot at. Two beautiful bucks, one wound up being completely wasted due to stupidity, impatience, and a lack of hunting skills.

So from an ethics standpoint, we have a hunter spooking up deer and shooting at them at a full run, I can tell you that none of the hits (there were three) this hunter made on the animal were vital hits.

From a safety standpoint it was like a damn warzone out there, bullets flying well beyond the hunters line of site with zero knowledge of where they were headed.

From a conservation standpoint. A perfectly good 10 point buck went to coyote chow.

So as a result of this experience I have made it my personal mission to try and lay down some education where it is required. As ethical and responsible hunters isn't that what we should be doing? And on the flip side of that, as new and inexperienced hunters should they not be seeking out instruction and guidance. Why don't we see more threads on "can you give me some tips on tracking", "what should I be looking for in a hunting spot", "how long should I be waiting after I've hit an animal"....the list goes on.



-John
 
#6
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Here's a scenario I witnessed a few years ago elk hunting.
There were 2 guys that drew cow tags in the Bush Beer Camp.(Yeah, they are distributors, & bring a tent full) There were 12 guys in the camp. !st. day of cow season they head out, & don't see anything. As they are all together, & hiking back to camp, one spots a group of 3 cows, & a bull walking down a trail on the other side of the canyon.(500-600yds). He yells, & ALL 12 guys unload their rifles @ the elk TWICE! Two are visibly hit, & the others run away. Long story short, they did get busted by the wardens, for.
Poaching-as only one of the permit holders was actually with the group when they fired.
Driving on a closed road in a Wildlife Area. They drove to where they could get the elk out easier.
DWI-They were all drunk
Loaded firearm inside a motor vehicle. When they were getting wrote up, they threw their loaded rifles into the truck.
I know for a fact that not one of those guys know anything about LR shooting.Not one of them even fired from a kneeling position.
After all that, they were all up drinking 'till after midnight, & riding a souped up quad around @ 60ph. Then a gun went off in their camp, & they were gone by the morning.
Now that those guys are gone, I don't mind hunting there now.
 
#7
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Yeah unfortunetly we are probably losing are hunting skills as a society. Too many sparkly shining items that distract us from the fundementals of hunting. And yes there are those who give hunters a bad name. Good news is there are more hunting shows out there pushing responsible hunting. Ands there are programs for kids to introduce them to hunting. My Dad was not a hunter so my brother and I had to learn from reading, the kindness of others, and from our own trial and error. A buddy of mine is deploying and his son asked me to take him hunting. Maybe I'm reading to much into it but I considered it a great honor. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes the hunting culture looks to be on the decline. We're all going to have to do something about it in order to keep it going. Maybe something as simple as taking a kid out hunting.
 
#8
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I will try and dig out the photos out of my storage but the aboriginals I went hunting with were hunting crocodile with spears. I learned more on that one day than i think I ever learned in my life....

Seen one guy, about 65 years old I think hit one croc at about 90 yards striaght through the top of the head with the longest spear I have ever seen in my life.... A perfect clean kill... They rejoice in the kill and rejoice in the fact that such a large beast is going to supply them with meat and hide for a lot of their living. We cut the animal up that evening and hauled it back on our backs.. I ate some really good food that night. perfectly cooked and all from the land... A really enlightening experience to be in the presence of such masters
 
#9
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Those who are connected with Mother Earth. One pulls a fistful of earth from the ground and appreiated it. After all, the creator made all living things from earth.The trees,grass,water and living enties are sarced,presoius, as day and night,all things tied together in the unverse,which is alive.We take game from Mother Earth for food,we gave thanks.Ones kill is right away eaten in repect for the creature.One sits down with others and eat in deep repect for each other, the deer and thanking the gift from mother nature. It is watching you,recording you and judgement day will come. On the other side,its a status trip,how many ATVs,$40,000.00 camper,$40,000.00 pick-ups,how big a deer did you get,8 pointer?, Atvs and 4 wheelers riping up mother the dirt.Hunters Whores is an apportment name. Thats the black and white of it.
 
#10
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

GoForBroke,

It is a great honor...take that boy under your wing like he is your own and teach him well. What he learns from you now will have the most impact on him for all of his years. teach him how of coarse, but more importantly teach him why. Be patient. Its all new to him. Let him participate and let him know that he is doing it well.

Yes, it is an honor and a great responsibility mentoring a youngster to hunting and the outdoors. Embrace it! Its the greatest thing you will ever do.

My father was my mentor and as a kid I remember standing by his door at 4 am waiting for his alarm clock to sound so he could get up on a sunday and take me hunting. I never fully understood his love and commitment that he dedicated to me until I was much older. I just thought everyones dad was like that....That was over 40 years ago and as clear as crystal I can still see my little boots trying to step into his big boot prints in the deep snow. And finally catching up to that big buck and dad getting me the shot instead of himself even though it was larger than any buck he had ever shot himself........Thats what its really all about.
 
#11
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

On new this and better that. Hell man, its simply cause if your addicted you want to have the best and even when you know you allready do, you want to improve even further. But theres allways that one you go back to time and time again. Its just a lot of fun and learning along the way, equals fun and thin wallets mostly.

"Teach a kid to hunt now and you won't have to hunt for them later." Is a slogan I recently picked up from a hunting show and its the truth. By nature theres allways a bad batch.

To hunting skills, any attempted kill should be taken with the most resonsible of actions and with ones best ability to provide a clean kill quickly. However that may be. I personally look forward to attempting it on a free range wild hog with a stick.
 
#12
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

My grandfather was a gun nut and hunter but passed away before I had a chance to pick anything up from him. My father was never much of an outdoorsman, but for some reason I have always had the bug. I'm thankful that I had someone take me under their wing and show me how to hunt and survive in the outdoors, it was actually in my late teens. If someone is interested it is never too late to pass on the right way to hunt. The last three hunting seasons I have takin a kid hunting that doesn't have anyone to show him. We have a responsibilty as hunters to do that. There is nothing like mentoring a young hunter, watching them develope there skills and seeing the satisfaction in their eyes when they are successfull. I wouldn't be where I'm at today if I hadn't of had a mentor. Johnny5 is right, hunting has become a commercialized industry, you don't need the biggest and the best to get the job done, you need skills.
 
#13
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I agree with you guys. Lack of education, mentoring and patients with a reliance on equipment instead of skills has made hunting dangerous/wasteful.

I'm taking two new guys this morning. My neighbor and my 5 yr old.
smile.gif
 
#14
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Strick9, don't get me wrong I have nothing against having the best gear. Take a look at all the crap I've got sitting in and out of my gunsafe and you'll see I'm just as hooked as the next guy.

My greatest concern is the decline of hunting skills. A quick clean kill is always the goal but no matter how good a shot you are if you spend enough time hunting you'll end up in a scenario where the animal moves while your breaking the trigger, gust of wind, good ol' fashion buck fever, etc.. and the critter doesn't go down right there.

I guess we just need to take it on ourselves to do what we can to help as many as we can. Hunting is a great sport and I would hate to see it get dragged through the mud due to lack of effort. It's already taking a beating from the anti's.

-John
 
#15
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

A little bit of an afterthought, I wonder if there aren't a few of the more experienced or professional hunters or guides on this site that would be willing to start a few instructional threads that the mods might sticky in this section.

It would be a start. Just a thought.

-John
 
#16
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. A lot of ways to hunt mulies, Elk, Speed goats.

Better to ask questions then have instructional threads.

Ask 5 guides as to there techniques, your get 3-4 different answers. Some won't even tell you "all the facts". Some things are learned through trial and error. If they tell every other guide "how they do it" and that guide they told becomes more successful... well then that guide gets more money and maybe the guy who shared is outta work...Kind alike your honey holes... how many guys have you told about them?

I really think it boils down to mentors. Ones who have learned from their mentors, the love, respect and admiration for the animals they are about to kill. Hand in hand with that are the traditions, techniques and skills in doing such. They are often passed from generation to generation.



 
#17
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

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+1 Weda. I believe its all about passing it on...

This is my son Sean with his first Antelope buck.(His 13th birthday). We started on this buck early in the morning on opening day...6 hours later after belly crawling through wet heavy snow for over 300 yards Sean made a sweet one shot kill on him at 225 yards with his 22/250. One of the most memorable days weve ever spent together. We backpacked the meat, cape and horns 4 miles back to the pickup. I remember stopping for a breather about halfway back and saying to Sean, "I guess we could have waited a few days for it to dry up...might have gotten a bigger one." He said, "thats what everyone else is doing.. this ones mine...we earned him."
 
#23
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I agree with many people here that there are WAY too many hunters that are losing skills. I'm from the "flatlands" and so my "tracking" skills are not nearly as sharp as many of yours. I can hold my own though and follow a blood trail. I usually place my shots so that I get a DRT animal. I realize this isn't always possible, and for lots of people they may not be capable of doing that consistently. I know most of the guys here probably can, and it's not a problem. Too many times people think it's about the size of the animal, or even the kill. A true hunter just enjoys the experience of being in nature, seeing the animals so close, and being a part of all of it.

I agree also with others here that most people are BADLY practiced. They sight in their rifle once a year, and it's always from a bench or lead sled. They don't know the ballistics of their rifle, or even what their trigger really feels like. I think people are just getting lazy, and too many that are about the thrill of killing. I hope that more can learn what hunting is about. I think there is starting to be a bit of a renewed curiousity and desire to learn how things used to be, and get back to things a bit more "natural". Either way, we'll see.
 
#24
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I've bin hunting since I was 12yrs old I am now 40,and one of the biggest problems I see is nobody wants to hunt small game anymore.That's how my dad taught me to hunt deer is by hunting tree rats.Everybody watchs the trophy hunting shows kill 10 and 12 pt bucks,then if they don't kill a trophy buck the hunt sucked.I tell new hunters all the time learn to walk before you run it's not about who kills the biggest deer it's about enjoying the hunt,every animal is a trophy.
 
#25
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I believe using guns in general takes the "skill" out of <span style="font-style: italic">most</span> hunting. I'm almost a strict bow hunter, its how I started, but starting using rifle in the past few years. I've killed 5 deer with a rifle. Only one of those kills was under 75 yards(15 yard shot). Not one bit of my hunting tactics was a learned skill aside from how to pull a trigger.

Bow hunting on the other hand is like reloading. You need to pay attention, practice, observe, check for patterns, etc..

Potatoes Pototoes is what I say. THere is a difference between killing an animal and hunting it
 
#26
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ed 221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
it's not about who kills the biggest deer it's about enjoying the hunt,every animal is a trophy. </div></div>

Agreed. I just got into small game hunting a few years ago and its much more enjoyable than deer. Less stress more activity and more shooting
laugh.gif
 
#27
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Guys it can be a slippery slope trying to decide what is appropriate beyond what is legal in the field.

For me the bottom line is "sweat equity". If you put in the work and reap the rewards you are justified. If that means putting in a bunch of hours at the range to be comfortable at longer distances because you cannot hike as far as you could before thats the way it goes. Same thing with food plots to an extent, if you do all the work to maintain it and let it supplament the deer on your property I have no problem with it.

I do have an issue when someones cash replaces the sweat and they tell the story of the "hunt" and it includes sitting in a heated blind with a corn feeder on a timer.
 
#28
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

My hunts now often turn into shooting with a camera.

I don't advocate, feeders, baits or the likes.

I learned to hunt with a single shot. So will my son. Even though I already have designs on a custom rig for him.

AS I said above, the morals, standards, ethics and love of the sport seems to have the need to be passed on from a mentor.

Any animal taken from a well planned hunt in fair chase, is a trophy. B&C is great things for ego's. A real trophy is measured in your heart and the proud look on dad and grandpa's face.

 
#29
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Doc,
I could not disagree with you more when you say a rifle takes the skill out of hunting.I hunt in Ny state in the hard woods and have to use caution and skill to get to my stand it's rare to have more then a 5o yrd shot.Some of my best stalks have been with rifle( shotgun)the best was a 1 hr 100 yrd stalk in the snow quiteley tracked had to keep the wind in my face use availible cover before sneaking up on a bedded doe shot her within 15yrds she was still lying in her bed( what a rush).Don't forget deer have already been hunted for a month before gunners even get into the woods the deer are already spooked from being hunted.I can't bow hunt any more I have a bum shoulder and the bow nazis in Ny shot down a proposal to use cross bows you pretty much have to be a quadraplegic to get a permit.
 
#30
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ed 221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc,
I could not disagree with you more when you say a rifle takes the skill out of hunting.I hunt in Ny state in the hard woods and have to use caution and skill to get to my stand it's rare to have more then a 5o yrd shot.Some of my best stalks have been with rifle( shotgun)the best was a 1 hr 100 yrd stalk in the snow quiteley tracked had to keep the wind in my face use availible cover before sneaking up on a bedded doe shot her within 15yrds she was still lying in her bed( what a rush).Don't forget deer have already been hunted for a month before gunners even get into the woods the deer are already spooked from being hunted.I can't bow hunt any more I have a bum shoulder and the bow nazis in Ny shot down a proposal to use cross bows you pretty much have to be a quadraplegic to get a permit. </div></div>

I said <span style="font-weight: bold">MOST</span> hunting. Goodness, learn to comprehend what you read. More hunter sit in the middle of a cornfield with hay bales for a blind and have 400 yard shots in all directions. Good for you on the stalking. I do it very rarely and its the hardest hunting I've ever done. My point was guns puts you at a big advantage even when stalking.
 
#31
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I will have to agree with most all your comments about hunting skills. Gadgets are just that and even then they usually get used improperly or replace a skill that makes a successful hunt or may even save your life in the woods. For example would be the advent of the GPS units. Everybody wants one and yet most do not have the orienteering skills to find their way out of a paper bag let alone a sleeping bag. Having map and compass skills can get you to better hunting spots and save you from truly getting lost requiring SAR to save their sorry cold butts. Reading a topo map as I am sure you would all agree is essential to going bushwacking thru the woods and also to find good areas to hunt. Yet how many newbies can read one, and would leave their camp or vehicle before locating it on the map and taking its bearings.

We all collect gadgets its fun to try them out but a good hunter falls back to the basics a sound gun and optics, a map and compass, Binocs, sharp knife, water jug and a well stocked survival kit. And lets not forget a well trained and practiced mind. I would sooner forget my rifle than forget my binocs for a day out in the field. Face it we like shiny new stuff more than Ravens and Crows and collect them too (I am guilty as charged your honor!).

One tradition I have gained from our European hunter brethren is in the respect shown to our quarry. The tradition is that after the kill to search for the animals favored food and collect some to place in its mouth prior to doing the field dressing. They say a prayer of thanks for the animal providing sustenance and a valuable experience for the hunter. I feel that we at times lose site of truly respecting our quarry and the experiences of the hunt whether successful or not. When you hear of slob hunters just taking the cape and horns or antlers they truly have no respect and thats what infuriates all of you and me most.

This is just my opinion but I think you all are probably nodding yes or just nodding off.;)
 
#32
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

My deer rifle is a Marlin 336 in 30-30. I practice shooting it in as many positions I can get away with at the various "you can't do that" ranges near me.

I would like to make a 700 yard shot on a white tail, but I know I can't make it now. My 30-06 would do it, my skills won't. I plan to practice as much as possible to someday take the shot. Til then, my longest shot on a deer has been 150 yards with a stock 30-30 and factory ammo from Walmart.

The deer made it a whopping 20 yards.

This same issue is prevalent in all manner or racing, especially with hotshots on a 1000cc sportbike who give the rest of us a bad image.
 
#33
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This same issue is prevalent in all manner or racing, especially with hotshots on a 1000cc sportbike who give the rest of us a bad image. </div></div>

We call them squids. I had a squid pass me in my own lane last month. I dropped gears and caught up to him in a turn cuz he slowed down to 50 mph in a turn that I can take at 85 on a casual day. My brother in law chewed him out cuz I was gunna kick him over
 
#34
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This same issue is prevalent in all manner or racing, especially with hotshots on a 1000cc sportbike who give the rest of us a bad image. </div></div>

Yep, squidly...

One guy with no gear and a burned off back tire (burnouts) rolled up to a friend and I at a light. We're both geared up on the way back from a rip through the Poconos and goes "Nice bikes. Shoulda gone with a gixxer though, they're faster."

I just said "yeah, I guess so" and almost fell off when he tore out of the light and got pulled over by the next one. Happens all the time...
We call them squids. I had a squid pass me in my own lane last month. I dropped gears and caught up to him in a turn cuz he slowed down to 50 mph in a turn that I can take at 85 on a casual day. My brother in law chewed him out cuz I was gunna kick him over </div></div>
 
#35
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Don't blame age, I've encountered plenty of trash hunters 30 years my senior. I'd actually say the environment they were raised in is a bigger issue. There used to be a ton more people raised in rural areas, in the outdoors virtually every day, a .22 in hand worn out by 3 generations of use, hunting small game.

Now, most people grow up in a city and rarely shoot (except 3 shots to "sight in" before heading out for deer season). Small game? Nope. Even those in rural areas primarily live on small plots, no hunting or shooting. I'm not the only hunter in my area, but I am the ONLY one who shoots in my backyard on any regular basis.

It's the same instant gratification, materialistic attitude that has led us to the state we are in economically. Buy bigger, buy better, no reason just to have the biggest and "best". Just look at how many threads, even here, try to convince you that a deer won't die with anything less than a .30cal or a magnum.

I spend a lot of time on muzzleloader forums. It's amazing how heated the bullet arguments get, there are so many CONVINCED that there are quite a number of bullets out there that just won't kill deer. If it isn't a 300gr bullet opening up to 1+ inches in diameter, it's no good. Me, I shoot a little 200gr bullet they scoff at and haven't had a deer in the last two dozen take more than three steps. It's all about hunting -- get the angle, place it well. A foreign concept to many.

Then these same guys scream when I shoot something at 300 yards because they have enough problems hitting an animal at 50...
 
#36
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't blame age, I've encountered plenty of trash hunters 30 years my senior. I'd actually say the environment they were raised in is a bigger issue. There used to be a ton more people raised in rural areas, in the outdoors virtually every day, a .22 in hand worn out by 3 generations of use, hunting small game.

Now, most people grow up in a city and rarely shoot (except 3 shots to "sight in" before heading out for deer season). Small game? Nope. Even those in rural areas primarily live on small plots, no hunting or shooting. I'm not the only hunter in my area, but I am the ONLY one who shoots in my backyard on any regular basis.

It's the same instant gratification, materialistic attitude that has led us to the state we are in economically. Buy bigger, buy better, no reason just to have the biggest and "best". Just look at how many threads, even here, try to convince you that a deer won't die with anything less than a .30cal or a magnum.

I spend a lot of time on muzzleloader forums. It's amazing how heated the bullet arguments get, there are so many CONVINCED that there are quite a number of bullets out there that just won't kill deer. If it isn't a 300gr bullet opening up to 1+ inches in diameter, it's no good. Me, I shoot a little 200gr bullet they scoff at and haven't had a deer in the last two dozen take more than three steps. It's all about hunting -- get the angle, place it well. A foreign concept to many.

Then these same guys scream when I shoot something at 300 yards because they have enough problems hitting an animal at 50... </div></div>


All very good points. The only thing that stops me from shooting an air rifle into a bullet trap is the local anti-gun nazi that gets uppety about me carrying locked cases to the car, I don't want to have to deal with her calling the cops on me over a BB gun.
 
#37
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

When I was growing up my dad taught us how to properly shoot at a early age. We lived way out in the sticks so it wasn't a issue to go out in the fields and spend the afternoon shooting targets. As my brother and I got into our teen years, my dad worked too much to take us hunting. Luckily for me my buddy's dad took me and I learned a lot from him. To this day I still hunt with him, and I'm still learning. I'm in my mid 30's now and have a hard time finding anyone my age who wants to put in the time and effort to go hunting. Everyone wants to run off to the range to blast a few rounds and then start drinking. They expect to go out and have the game walk right up to them. Hopefully, the next generation puts the video game controllers down and heads outside before the skills are lost.

That's my .02, I'll head back to my lane now.
 
#38
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

i had my first son 7 1/2 months ago. i didnt grow up hunting, and only grew up around guns the first 6 or 7 years of my life before my parents started their divorce paperwork. i joined the army at 19, and i got back into buying my own guns about 2 years ago, im 24 by the way, 25 in may. and my fiances dad is getting me into hunting, slowly but surely. my son will grow up hunting and shooting. he will know all that i know(right now, fairly limited, but im still learning.) i will use guns and hunting as a tool(not the only one though) to teach him respect. i wont let him be a lazy fatass sittin in front of a tv or computer all day. he will have designated times to play video games and whatnot. i know im a little ahead of myself, seeing how hes not even a year old yet, but better to start the ground work early.
 
#39
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Most are that's for sure.

I think it's a change in attitude. It used to be the "skill" of hunting was to conceal yourself or spot and stalk as close as you could get, and make a good clean shot. Many actually practiced off hand shots, and shooting in real hunting positions. Now days every guy at the range has a lead sled, most guys have no idea how to even use a sling. Rangefinders have just complicated this as far as I'm concerned. If you aren't shooting over 300 yards there's absolutely zero need for one on deer sized game. You can sight a 30-06 in for 300 yard zero and be in the kill zone from 50 yards to 350 yards. All they have done is give weekend warriors a tool that combined with some trajectory chart they downloaded off the internet, not even matched to their gun/load, the attitude they can take 500+ yard shots. The same is true of shooting sticks and such, while the concept is good that they could make more humane shots on animals, guys use them as an excuse to shoot farther than they should.

Now frankly 90% of the guys I see and talk to are bragging about their new 300/338 mag with a 16x+ power scope, and how they shoot deer at 400-1000 yards. The new in fad these days isn't to see how close you can get to the animal and truly use hunting skills, guys just want to brag about how far away they shot the animal. In addition to as others have said being way over gunned. If I had a $1 for every guy at the range I've seen flinching like a mofo behind a 300 win mag that he's going to use for some little whitetail I'd be rich. Interesting most of them drive big jacked up trucks and think they are badass cause they can put 5 rounds on a pie plate at 100 yards. We had a guy at the range last weekend shooting a 300 with a brake, took him 8 shots to hit a steel plate at 400 yards, and boy he was telling everyone how he was the man when he hit it. Later in the day he hit the 500 yard plate and exclaimed how his rig was good to 500 yards now.

Also road hunting is now the standard. I can remember hunting ND 25 years ago and most places you had to park and walk all day to get back into the good spots. Now all of those areas are accessible within a mile or two tops by oil rig roads and just other development roads. The ATV's are just as bad, now guys just rip around on them looking for animals.
 
#41
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I agree with thatguy. How many of us have taken someone out their first time? My dad was a dairy farmer and saw no value in hunting because of the impracticality of it. I started on my own when I was 20 and have been going for twenty + years. I've learned alot by trial and error. Its not just the urban vs. rural, There is something else. I've taken several men out for their first time starting about 10 years ago. Some take to it naturally and some don't. Example( one guy I took out showed up in a rainsuit that sounded like a trashbag in a 40 knot wind. Trying to be patient and not wanting to hover I put him in a good spot that I had used before, backed off and let him go at it. He saw nothing and I took two before 10 am, he came out @ noon and I debriefed him asking him about what he thought he could do better to get better results. Next day He showed up in the same outfit and I asked him if it made alot of noise. He said no. I guess there's more than one lesson there. Another guy I started is actually visually impaired and couldn't see the deer for the first 3 yrs but now has a feel for their patterns and goes by himself he has scored at least one per season since. As for method unless you're using an antler or hoof to beat one to death you have an advantage, get over it. We need a place for marksmanship training, if its the deer woods so be it. If its the range so be it. Familiarity with weapons is a plus for our culture and society, some people will always be more familiar than others if you're better than someone else kudos to you. We need to concentrate on what can be learned to improve our own styles and attitudes. If the standard for the average goes up so do the average. As for an occasional a##hole they will be with us always. Deal with them on a case by case basis, but review their shortcomings and apply them to yourself. An ego is a dangerous thing.
 
#42
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

to what ToddM said, i understand where youre coming from. im actually saving up for a few new rifles. one will be a rem700 in either .270 or .243. both proven deer guns, both with phenominal ranges, though i dont think i will ever have to "stretch their legs" on any hunts. fiances dad said hes never taken a deer past 200M, and even though i know i can shoot further, i dont think theres a point. even if i do have a clean humane kill out to, say, 600M, all i will have done is kill a deer that far, and have to lug its ass back to wherever i shot him from. my other rifle will be a marlin 1895G(guide gun) lever action in .45-70, if i ever want to go on a bear hunt. and yet another round with proven ballistics. also, another gun that will probably never see a shot past 150-200M, unless its on the range to see what i can launch it at. the trajectory on that thing is like a mortar.

but theres still a few of us left that understand(kinda) the old way. i refuse to buy a rangefinder, my "rangefinder" is the mildots in my scope. certain rifles do not need to be disgraced with a scope, like leverguns, muzzle loaders, and other "old time rifles". my only powered scope goes to 12X. thats all i need, and thats on a .223. my other rifles are iron sights, and peep sights. some guys bust my balls about using peep sights, until i put the same group at 100M that they did at 15X on their scope. they usually go away and leave me alone after that.
 
#43
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

+1,brother. Our Native Americans back in the hey day sure did respect the animals. For it was their livelyhood. Balance and harmaony between nature and man. When game and good grass was well consumed,time to move on,the women did most of the house chores,men did the waring,partying and smoked the pipe. The tough life and injuries dieases thin out the population. Now as I think of it....the concept is the perfect GREEN machine the enviormentalist have been seeking....
 
#44
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

I've audited a few Hunter Safety Classes over the past few years, and it seems that as firearms become more capable, hunters with less experience will appear to expect the firearm to do the lion's share of the work.

Now maybe that's not so new, but it does highlight a serious potential defect in our collective hunting prowess.

I think the logic fails when the virgin hunters expect the course to do all the teaching. There is still the absolute need of a mentoring process for those safety course graduates, once they try taking to the field.

Greg
 
#45
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Greg I taught Hunter Education for our dept for years and I could not agree with you more. As we used to stress to the concerned parents that attended with their children. "This is just the beginning of the Lesson, you are the rest"

Children and young people are only going to do what their mentors do. And if it's wrong, they will do it wrong.

 
#46
Re: Are we losing our hunting skills?

Oh I love getting out after a good snow and do some stalk hunting. I have alot of fun trying to track them down with my deer cannon. The best part of hunting is when you sit in the woods for days and see all the amazing things that are out there. Just go out and clear your mind and recharge you body. Not to mention you will never be able to get a better nap. LOL

Deer Cannon. Great caliber for putting deer down. 1 1/4oz's of lead coming out of it.
Gunpictures014.jpg

Gunpictures016.jpg
 
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