AREA 419 hellfire system POI shifts

[Jmccracken1214]

Has anyone used this with their can? How bad were your POI shifts?

Im waiting on my can but took my rifle out today and fired 5 shots with just the adaptor on the barrel, then fired 5 with the brake on. About 1-1.5" low and right.

Took the brake off, repeat the first 2 steps... this time, when I put the brake back on, I was shooting .5-1" high right...

The changing of impact when the brake is off, then back on concerns me that maybe when I put my can on and zero it... it wont hold zero once I take it off, then put it back on again.

 

[akmike47]

Poi shift happens with and without a can. Maybe I’m an idiot, but adding removing weight on the barrel changes the harmonics. Also you’re adding it at the extreme unsupported end where it’s magnified.



Edit: maybe I read it wrong partially.

Obviously more/less weight will change the POI, but to clarify you’re saying with the whole system on it shoot one direction, you remove it, then reinstall it with all the parts again and it shoots another direction?

Are you timing it with the same side up every time?

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Yup. I added the Area 419 hellfire to my 6.5 CM FrankenGun and the POI shifted 2 1/2" low and left. Re zeroed and found that group sizes were reduced. I tweaked my handloads with the brake on the gun and pulled group sizes even smaller. Took the brake off and it shot high and right a couple inches and groups opened up even after re zero.

Stuff that hangs on the end of a barrel is going to change barrel harmonics and thus affect POI and load development.

VooDoo

 

[Brokenbolt762]

It is a very repeatable shift. I mostly shoot suppressed and switch my can with the hellfire adapter between multiple guns so I don’t necessarily have to re-zero for a new muzzle device. If I wanted to put a brake back on them for whatever reason I would make a conscious effort to re-zero as I’m sure the timing of the brake would have some impact. The main thing I would pay attention to is making sure the tapered sections on the muzzle device and suppressor are free of carbon. I had some issues with carbon smashing between the can and the muzzle and causing consistency issues. You should feel a mechanical (hard) stop, not mushy.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

These were the first rounds through it...

And I know there's going to be a POI shift with a brake vs without a brake... some of you didnt read my post.

After I adjust for the POI shift, take it off, put it back on, the exact same way as before.... my POI is different again.

 

[AllenOne1]

Has anyone used this with their can? How bad were your POI shifts?

Im waiting on my can but took my rifle out today and fired 5 shots with just the adaptor on the barrel, then fired 5 with the brake on. About 1-1.5" low and right.

Took the brake off, repeat the first 2 steps... this time, when I put the brake back on, I was shooting .5-1" high right...

The changing of impact when the brake is off, then back on concerns me that maybe when I put my can on and zero it... it wont hold zero once I take it off, then put it back on again.

I am surprised that you put the brake on and shoot an inch low then remove it and put it back on and shoot an inch high. I would expect more repeatability than that. Sure shooting with a brake then without is going to move POI but to simply remount the same brake and see POI shifting is odd. I have been shooting the Area 419 brake for a while now and I take it off to clean the gun each time and have noticed no POI shift.

I'm using the Area 419 system for my suppressor which I am putting on and taking off each time and I haven't yet noticed a shift in POI. Pretty new with it though so I have only shot with the suppressor a couple of times.

 

[AllenOne1]

After I adjust for the POI shift,

Are you adjusting the scope?

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I am surprised that you put the brake on and shoot an inch low then remove it and put it back on and shoot an inch high. I would expect more repeatability than that. Sure shooting with a brake then without is going to move POI but to simply remount the same brake and see POI shifting is odd. I have been shooting the Area 419 brake for a while now and I take it off to clean the gun each time and have noticed no POI shift.

I'm using the Area 419 system for my suppressor which I am putting on and taking off each time and I haven't yet noticed a shift in POI. Pretty new with it though so I have only shot with the suppressor a couple of times.

I’m surprised also. I’m going to take it back out soon and mess with it again. But it was a little odd seeing it move around like this

 

[spife7980]

, put it back on, the exact same way as before.... my POI is different again.

Evidence seems say you didn’t though.

 

[akmike47]

Evidence seems say you didn’t though.

That’s my first guess 180* off maybe?


Odd situation if it’s really being installed the same way every time

 

[Downtown]

I have a point of aim shift with the same system, but it's consistent and repeatable.

 

[sjbryan65]

Mine is perfectly repeatable. .3 MRAD vertical difference between suppressed and un-suppressed.

 

[Ronin_64]

I shoot the Area 419 Helfire on my MRAD 6.5 cm and a Dead Air Sandman. There is a shift to the left and low, but it stays the same when removing/adding the suppressor.

 

[AllenOne1]

Mine is perfectly repeatable. .3 MRAD vertical difference between suppressed and un-suppressed.

That is exactly what I'm seeing going from Brake to Suppressor, .3 Mils. Vox suppressor.

 

[flyer1a]

We discussed in email, but we don't really know what's going on here. As you're seeing in this thread, the repeatability of the POI shift has been REALLY strong on the system over the years.

"It's customer error" is the last thing we ever want to say, but are you confident in your handloads? Rifle? Optic?

 

[308pirate]

Has anyone used this with their can? How bad were your POI shifts?

Im waiting on my can but took my rifle out today and fired 5 shots with just the adaptor on the barrel, then fired 5 with the brake on. About 1-1.5" low and right.

Took the brake off, repeat the first 2 steps... this time, when I put the brake back on, I was shooting .5-1" high right...

The changing of impact when the brake is off, then back on concerns me that maybe when I put my can on and zero it... it wont hold zero once I take it off, then put it back on again.

Maybe wait until you have the suppressor on and off a few times to see if you really have a problem, instead of trying to extrapolate and get all worked up over potentially nothing.