Area419 - The ULTIMATE TEST - 2025 Big Boy Precision Optic Shootout
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One note. Craig's said on there nobody has done anything similar to comparing the top tier scopes.
@koshkin has done a number of them over the years. They can't be ignorant to it.
@koshkin has done a number of them over the years. They can't be ignorant to it.
As well as Glass and BigJim.
And to a certain extent, Cdoes.
What used to be super niche, but super useful information is now very accessible, thankfully!
And to a certain extent, Cdoes.
What used to be super niche, but super useful information is now very accessible, thankfully!
I'll watch the video when I have a chance.
Looking at the picture... I have not tested the large eyepiece Kahles and I never had a DNT in that lineup (I do have one and like it, but it does not belong in that group). From that standpoint, I have never done anything quite like it.
ILya
it’s interesting. They’ll have a natural bias towards Kahles as a they’re a dealer
this thread will turn into a shitshow quickly 
. I watched it this morning while i drank my coffee and tried to keep the my Corgi tribe intertained and found it quite interesting and yes I usually read the test done by members on here and always find a lot of useful info, but it was interesting to hear how they rated by the average joe. While i have as much chance of ever owning a TT as i do winning the powerball, that's one's out of my league, I will however take time one of these days to run to denver which is not that big of deal being only 240miles away, to Milerhigh and look at the ZCO and if super impressed keep an eye out here in the px for a used one, if i move a couple i have. Unfortunately , once I retired, i have to watch my finances a little more closely than some. I'm a NF , Kahles, Steiner fan. While some seem to come out every year with something new like ZCO every since they've hit the market, Kahles has several years between the K525i and K540i, I have a feeling when NF brings out a new one, it will be an instant WOW with a bang. The scope market is fun to watch
. I watched it this morning while i drank my coffee and tried to keep the my Corgi tribe intertained and found it quite interesting and yes I usually read the test done by members on here and always find a lot of useful info, but it was interesting to hear how they rated by the average joe. While i have as much chance of ever owning a TT as i do winning the powerball, that's one's out of my league, I will however take time one of these days to run to denver which is not that big of deal being only 240miles away, to Milerhigh and look at the ZCO and if super impressed keep an eye out here in the px for a used one, if i move a couple i have. Unfortunately , once I retired, i have to watch my finances a little more closely than some. I'm a NF , Kahles, Steiner fan. While some seem to come out every year with something new like ZCO every since they've hit the market, Kahles has several years between the K525i and K540i, I have a feeling when NF brings out a new one, it will be an instant WOW with a bang. The scope market is fun to watch
If there's something you've done in this style that I'd overlooked, by all means that's on me. I'll email you though, I have another one in mind that I might pick your brain about, VERY much in your wheelhouse. I'm sure SnipersHide will hate it, but I think it could be cool.
I did several comparisons over the years that I called "High End Tactical". First few were written only. More recent ones were a mix of written word, videos and livestreams. Generally, I like to do the wrap up on these as a livestream to be able to address questions in real time.
The first one was done in 2010, if memory serves me right.
The last one (8th) was last year. Here is a wrap up livestream.
I am about half way through yours. It looks pretty nicely done, but I have been bombarded with emails to do a rebuttal on it. So far I did not see anything that would necessarily require it. Perhaps, there is something in the second half of the video.
If I do a rebuttal/critique/analysis, you should join me and do as a livestream. That would probably be the most productive thing.
ILya
The internet loves to stand in a circle and chant "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT" though I much prefer the idea of "GET BETTER, GET BETTER, GET BETTER"
I'm in when you are, I'll drink extra coffee for your midnight stream.
Nah, it’s just extremely subjective and biased on scopes. Only a select few line items can be quantified, the rest is preference.
Couldn't agree more. I think I can do Wednesday or Thursday next week. I'll send you an email.
ILya
Tony Burkes of TAB Gear did one years ago in Houston. the Hensholdt was phenomenal .
not so many years ago i remember Frank referring to Schmidt and Bender as the Gold standard. They didnt even make the test. They left out Zeiss and March, dont they have a 10x80 or something.
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Bingo. I was just about to ask who they're a dealer for.
We didn't sell any optics at all for many years. We decided to sell them again for two reasons - 1) Making rings and mounts, it's logical, and 2) We started with them because we thought this new Kahles was crazy and would move quickly.
You'll see us, over the course of the next 6 months, add a dozen optic brands to our website from all sorts of price points and segments.
My comment wasn't supposed to be a dig. I still watch a lot of videos by dealers...dealer videos are how I am able to see specific features that I can determine if an item is personally worthwhile or not.
I just don't put the weight into the opinions. It isn't that one product might not actually be better...it is simply that there will always be some amount of bias present.
Very interesting and Kudo's to Area 419 for taking on such a challenge, as those of us who've done these types of reviews before - it ain't easy! Also, @flyer1a you did mention several times in your video that you don't think anyone has done a review quite like this, yet ILya has, Covertnoob has as well as Big Jim Fish and myself (and that's four of us on Snipers Hide alone). In fact, the process for your review is very similar to my process - at 50 yards is where I do my resolution line, color and contrast chart (been doing this for a number of years) and then I also take the scopes to the range and evaluate out to 1000 yards and beyond when possible. I too have an evaluation chart where I walk through multiple criteria and evaluate each scope as close to the same time as possible because evaluating on different days (even too much time on the same day) can throw everything off.
I will say this - be careful when providing through the scope images, I stopped doing this a while back because even with phenomenal photography gear (I am a professional photographer) it is extremely difficult to get in focus images when trying to focus through an optical system that wasn't designed for the camera. Were you using AF or MF, where you using a 100% zoom to the focus point and making sure it was exact? Was lighting exactly the same, ISO set the same, aperture and shutter set the same for every shot? How were you ensuring that the focal plane of the camera/lens was in perfect alignment with each scope, being off just slightly has a tendency to introduce optical aberrations that may not be immediately evident when looking through the camera (or at RAW images), I can tell you from experience by just a few slight changes to the above I can get that DNT to look like the best scope of the bunch and the TT to look like something you should throw away - it doesn't take much to throw off the image. What about the diopters on each scope, were each set to the exact same location to ensure the scopes own diopter wasn't throwing off any aberrations? For these reasons I abandoned doing through the scope images for most anything because these scopes weren't made for camera's, they were made for eyeballs and so the best testing to do is adjust each scope to each testers eye and fine tune that diopter when needed. It's not perfect, but I haven't found anything that is to be honest - at least not readily available to a consumer. I think ILya may be one of the few anywhere within the sport optics community who's day job actually aligns with optical testing and precision and he has access to some very expensive equipment actually designed for this, so he would likely be your best consultant on future endeavors.
How about your "blind" scoring, did each person have the opportunity to adjust the diopter to their eyes, were you adjusting the diopter simply for reticle to be in focus or did you fine tune the diopters for each person (a diopter set for another person can be a make it or brake it scenario for another person if not adjusted for each individual eye).
Finally, am I correct in understanding that you set each scope at 35x and that's where you did all your testing - both for blind test as well as resolution test target indoors? Did you not do anything in the Goldilocks zone of 10-20x which is where many shooters who do dynamic shooting sports spend their time?
Again, I truly appreciate the time and effort that went into this, it definitely confirms my desire to include the ZCO 8-40 and Kahles 5-40 in my testing with the TT 7-35 this year!
This is the exact review I’m working on right now. 840 vs 540 vs TT735. I learned a lot from putting my big scope review together and too many scopes just equals a lot that gets lost in the video. I basically covered the same scopes + more in my current series as Area419 did in this video.
lol don’t want to derail this thread but it’s coming. I shot 3 PRS matches in 4 weeks so I’m a bit behind on everything.
Where was the March in your vids? I kept seeing it listed in the descriptions but it never appeared. Sad.
I think what Area419 and the other reviews on the Hide have shown is that at this level - the scopes are pretty phenomenal with nuances that might persuade one shooter to choose one over the other but nothing major that would cause one to cast aside a particular scope unless the nuance was a major pain point. My biggest concern with the Kahles is the 8x erector - was Kahles really able to overcome physics and produce a forgiving design with regard to eyebox and DOF/parallax? A lot of people have commented that eyebox is actually really good (some even say better than ZCO???) but not many have commented on DOF which I think is important for this game; one can't help but think, "what if Kahles didn't push the extreme on the erector and kept this to an 8-40 with ultra wide FOV - how much better could the scope have been?"
I think about this every GD day with every manufacturer. So annoying.
I know! That’s on me but it is in pt 4 for sure. And that’s one of those things that goes back to the point. To many scopes and stuff gets lost.
Yea I mean truthfully it’s pretty damn good. In my initial impressions. My buddy had his at a 2 day match we just shot this past weekend so every stage I was looking thru it at various targets and distances etc. until mine gets here.
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