Armalite 308 question

[Masked]

So I recently ordered a .308 from Armalite...I've had it since December 13th.

I have been having some accuracy issues and brought it to a local gunsmith to see what the issue could be.

Turns out, the barrel is off by .002".

I'm wondering if I should just buy a new barrel and "suck it up" or if this is an issue as to where it's worth sending the rifle back to Armalite?

I had wanted a 24" barrel anyway so, I was about to order a McGowan/Liljia but, in the same token, if this is/was a factory issue, I'd like to get it taken care of.

Thanks!

 

[GhostFace]

Re: Armalite 308 question

Contact Armalite they will fix it, they have a lifetime warranty. Use it, no sense in spending the money they will correct the problem for free.

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

Had it threaded and threw on a surefire 308 brake already - will give them a call and see what They say -- ty

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

So I have an update of sorts...I called a technician and talked to him earlier...Going to have a shot at Customer Service but, as of right now, this is the situation.

Since I threaded the barrel and pinned a brake...No warranty.

Apparently, I should have had it checked before threading the barrel and I'm now liable.

So, at this point, I'm looking for a .308 drop in AR barrel...22-24"...

Any suggestions?

The current barrel is just 0.002" off, is there a way my gunsmith can fix it?

Thanks!

 

[hlee]

Re: Armalite 308 question

What do you mean by 0.002" off? Is the bore diameter wrong? Too narrow, too wide? Did they tell you how the mods that were made to the barrel caused (or could have caused) the defect that you are experiencing? This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question (try the gunsmithing forum) and I don't think you have given enough information for someone to provide an informed opinion on whether it is a correctable problem.

Oh yeah, I'm not a gunsmith.

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you mean by 0.002" off? Is the bore diameter wrong? Too narrow, too wide? Did they tell you how the mods that were made to the barrel caused (or could have caused) the defect that you are experiencing? This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question (try the gunsmithing forum) and I don't think you have given enough information for someone to provide an informed opinion on whether it is a correctable problem.

Oh yeah, I'm not a gunsmith. </div></div>
Armalite told me flat out that because the barrel had been "modified" they wouldn't accept it back for warranty...No explanation of why/what or anything else.

My gunsmith specifically told me I'd need a new barrel because the barrel was 0.002" off, that he had tightened the nut to 30lbs because that's what Armalites are supposed to be but, it was still off.

I'll get more specifics but, bottom line is that I probably need a new barrel so, any recommendations would be great.

 

[ORD]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Armalite told me flat out that because the barrel had been "modified" they wouldn't accept it back for warranty...No explanation of why/what or anything else.

<span style="color: #FF0000">They don't owe you an explanation inasmuch as their warranty is clear on the results of modifications to their firearms voiding the warranty. It is what it is, but if Armalite unconditionally warrantied every single firearm it produced regardless of what every customer did to it once purchased, they'd be out of business. They will accept it back from you for inspection and repair...it just won't be on their dime given the fact that you modified the rifle by having the barrel threaded by someone other than Armalite, and otherwise modified the rifle from its factory condition.</span>

My gunsmith specifically told me I'd need a new barrel because the barrel was 0.002" off, that he had tightened the nut to 30lbs because that's what Armalites are supposed to be but, it was still off.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well...either your gunsmith doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about (highly possible based on other comments he's allegedly made) OR you didn't understand what he is talking about. Him saying "your barrel is 0.002 off" is meaningless without clarification of WHAT is off (headspace, bore diameter, etc., etc.). Also, I'm quite sure that Armalite didn't tell him that the barrel nut on ANY AR-10 was supposed to be "tightened to 30lbs" because that is just plain wrong. The proper torque range for all AR-10 barrel nuts is 45-90ft/lbs.</span>

I'll get more specifics but, bottom line is that I probably need a new barrel so, any recommendations would be great.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Bottom line is that you probably DO NOT need a new barrel based solely on the extremely limited information that you've been given by your smith re: the "problems" or overall condition of your AR-10. Get some detailed info to back up your smith's alleged "findings" and go from there. The first thing I'd do is get the barrel nut properly torqued down tight, and then consider switching smiths ASAFP depending on how he "clarifies" the issues with your rifle.</span></div></div>

See above in <span style="color: #FF0000">RED.</span>

 

[green338 2.0]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Armalite told me flat out that because the barrel had been "modified" they wouldn't accept it back for warranty...No explanation of why/what or anything else.

<span style="color: #FF0000">They don't owe you an explanation inasmuch as their warranty is clear on the results of modifications to their firearms voiding the warranty. It is what it is, but if Armalite unconditionally warrantied every single firearm it produced regardless of what every customer did to it once purchased, they'd be out of business. They will accept it back from you for inspection and repair...it just won't be on their dime given the fact that you modified the rifle by having the barrel threaded by someone other than Armalite, and otherwise modified the rifle from its factory condition.</span>

My gunsmith specifically told me I'd need a new barrel because the barrel was 0.002" off, that he had tightened the nut to 30lbs because that's what Armalites are supposed to be but, it was still off.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well...either your gunsmith doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about (highly possible based on other comments he's allegedly made) OR you didn't understand what he is talking about. Him saying "your barrel is 0.002 off" is meaningless without clarification of WHAT is off (headspace, bore diameter, etc., etc.). Also, I'm quite sure that Armalite didn't tell him that the barrel nut on ANY AR-10 was supposed to be "tightened to 30lbs" because that is just plain wrong. The proper torque range for all AR-10 barrel nuts is 45-90ft/lbs.</span>

I'll get more specifics but, bottom line is that I probably need a new barrel so, any recommendations would be great.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Bottom line is that you probably DO NOT need a new barrel based solely on the extremely limited information that you've been given by your smith re: the "problems" or overall condition of your AR-10. Get some detailed info to back up your smith's alleged "findings" and go from there. The first thing I'd do is get the barrel nut properly torqued down tight, and then consider switching smiths ASAFP depending on how he "clarifies" the issues with your rifle.</span></div></div>

See above in <span style="color: #FF0000">RED.</span>
</div></div>

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Armalite told me flat out that because the barrel had been "modified" they wouldn't accept it back for warranty...No explanation of why/what or anything else.

<span style="color: #FF0000">They don't owe you an explanation inasmuch as their warranty is clear on the results of modifications to their firearms voiding the warranty. It is what it is, but if Armalite unconditionally warrantied every single firearm it produced regardless of what every customer did to it once purchased, they'd be out of business. They will accept it back from you for inspection and repair...it just won't be on their dime given the fact that you modified the rifle by having the barrel threaded by someone other than Armalite, and otherwise modified the rifle from its factory condition.</span>

My gunsmith specifically told me I'd need a new barrel because the barrel was 0.002" off, that he had tightened the nut to 30lbs because that's what Armalites are supposed to be but, it was still off.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Well...either your gunsmith doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about (highly possible based on other comments he's allegedly made) OR you didn't understand what he is talking about. Him saying "your barrel is 0.002 off" is meaningless without clarification of WHAT is off (headspace, bore diameter, etc., etc.). Also, I'm quite sure that Armalite didn't tell him that the barrel nut on ANY AR-10 was supposed to be "tightened to 30lbs" because that is just plain wrong. The proper torque range for all AR-10 barrel nuts is 45-90ft/lbs.</span>

I'll get more specifics but, bottom line is that I probably need a new barrel so, any recommendations would be great.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Bottom line is that you probably DO NOT need a new barrel based solely on the extremely limited information that you've been given by your smith re: the "problems" or overall condition of your AR-10. Get some detailed info to back up your smith's alleged "findings" and go from there. The first thing I'd do is get the barrel nut properly torqued down tight, and then consider switching smiths ASAFP depending on how he "clarifies" the issues with your rifle.</span></div></div>

See above in <span style="color: #FF0000">RED.</span>
</div></div>

Oh, I understand it voids the warranty because it is modified but, considering how many others are having barrel issues, I in the very least thought an explanation of WHY it was off in the first place was warranted.

My gunsmith actually did explain it to me but, I wasn't paying attention to the degree of retention.

I do remember him saying 30lbs so, I'll have it torqued down a bit more but, the problem existed before he touched the rifle so, I have a feeling it will remain.

Will report with more details tomorrow -- Thanks for the advice/knowledge thus far.

 

[jdr724]

Re: Armalite 308 question

Yep- you should have checked it for function and accuracy before you modified it.

Same thing with a new car. Modify it before the warranty is up and you're SOL.

I've removed several factory installed armalite ar10 barrel nuts and they were all 60ft/lb plus. Tighten to 45ft/lb then keep turning until the gas tube is properly aligned.

Been dealing with them a long time and they run a tight ship. If you call them and expect meaningful answers you should call equally prepared.

 

[Nihonjin]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I recently ordered a .308 from Armalite...I've had it since December 13th.

I have been having some accuracy issues and brought it to a local gunsmith to see what the issue could be.

</div></div>
First off, what kind of accuracy issues are we talking about?

Were these problems present when you first got the rifle, and how long after did you have the barrel threaded?

Which model Armalite is this?

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Oh, I understand it voids the warranty because it is modified but, <span style="color: #FF0000">considering how many others are having barrel issues</span>, I in the very least thought an explanation of WHY it was off in the first place was warranted. </div></div>

Can you elaborate on the part in red with threads?

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nihonjin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I recently ordered a .308 from Armalite...I've had it since December 13th.

I have been having some accuracy issues and brought it to a local gunsmith to see what the issue could be.

</div></div>
First off, what kind of accuracy issues are we talking about?

Were these problems present when you first got the rifle, and how long after did you have the barrel threaded?

Which model Armalite is this? </div></div>

These problems were present before the rifle was threaded.

We're talking 3-5 MOA with the best grouping on the rifle by a Seal at 2.35 MOA.

Scope is not the issue.

I attempted to originally contact Armalite 4 weeks ago (2 weeks before the brake went on) to no avail and when I actually did get in touch with one (1 week before the brake went on) I was told "to just break it in, these issues are common."

When my gunsmith contacted Armalite, the guy on the phone told him 30lbs of torque (I was actually sitting right there) so, to be fair, that's not his fault.

If this is strictly an issue of the nut not being torqued down enough, that's an easy fix.

It also hasn't been cycling properly, even bone stock...Same smith found out that the port was off...Same issue.

I haven't actually shot the rifle while it's been cycling 100% so, that's a slight issue as well.

After I get the nut torqued down today, I'm going shooting on Friday so, I'll have some more answers, then.

Thanks.

Oh ~ To address the barrel accuracy issue -- There are a lot of guys that are having accuracy issues with more recent AR10T-BNF's which, is what this is...I don't know, maybe it's in their heads?

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Armalite 308 question

Seals are notoriously bad group shooters. Slimy skin, relatively little dexterity with their appendages, often shying away from blunt objects and loud noises.... probably better off trying a homo sapiens sapiens that has proven skills shooting large frame gas guns using a known good optic and known good ammo to see what the rifle is capable of.

While the smith had the rifle, why didn't you have him take .002" off the end of the barrel? Then it would not have been off .002" anymore.

 

[Masked]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seals are notoriously bad group shooters. Slimy skin, relatively little dexterity with their appendages, often shying away from blunt objects and loud noises.... probably better off trying a homo sapiens sapiens that has proven skills shooting large frame gas guns using a known good optic and known good ammo to see what the rifle is capable of.

While the smith had the rifle, why didn't you have him take .002" off the end of the barrel? Then it would not have been off .002" anymore. </div></div>

When I originally contacted Armalite, they told me just to keep shooting it, break in the rifle and then call them back.

This is when I figured "all is well" and had the brake thrown on.

I realize this was all impulsive and I should have had the rifle once-overed before doing this, neither the gunsmith nor I, thought about that because of what Armalite's tech said on the phone.

"We test and verify every single rifle in this shop, particularly custom barrels so, I guarantee you there are no issues what-so-ever with that barrel"

He's shut down for the weekend/Monday so, I haven't spoken to him yet but, I want to thank those that PM'd me because it appears to be a 100% torque related issue and the barrel is "loose" so, again, thank you.

Like I said, I'm taking a 2hr drive to a 100-200yd range on Friday with a shit-ton of ammo so, I'll have some answers, then.

Thanks much for your help thus far, guys!

 

[enmerdeur]

Re: Armalite 308 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seals are notoriously bad group shooters. Slimy skin, relatively little dexterity with their appendages, often shying away from blunt objects and loud noises.... probably better off trying a homo sapiens sapiens that has proven skills shooting large frame gas guns using a known good optic and known good ammo to see what the rifle is capable of.

While the smith had the rifle, why didn't you have him take .002" off the end of the barrel? Then it would not have been off .002" anymore. </div></div>