Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

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badwolf

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Apr 15, 2010
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#1
Looking for a 308 semi to shoot precision rifle class and some sniper style matches. A friend got a DPMS in 6.5 Creedmore last yr and we were impressed with it's accuracy, Dont have the money for high end rifles , about $1500 to spend
 
#2
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I am in the same boat also, I have been looking for a .308 and i am leaning towards the rock river LAR-8 varmint A4 with 26" barrel

my decision is based on a friend of mine had a rock river in 223 and it seems to be as good quality as my colt (maybe even better but i have not shot it enough to make that call)
 
#4
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Out of those 3 I'd go with Armalite. DPMS is notorious for quality issues and the RRA design already failed once under Bushmaster.
 
#5
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I have a DPMS in .308 and it's got some serious quality issues. Those have all been hammered out on this forum in previous threads.

Worse than quality issues, DPMS customer service is the worst. If you send them a gun, expect it gone for months. I spoke with a DPMS tech, supposedly the "top" guy. I got transferred several times because noone could answer a question about headspace. This guy was supposed to be the guru. He was a moron. His answer was so scary I decided right there never to send them my rifle and never buy another DPMS.
 
#6
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Any particular reason why you want the "AR" platform over a BA? If doing teh type of shooting you are describing, would think a BA would be better suited.
Sure, I know some AR's can shoot MOA or better, but let's face it, that is NOT why people buy an AR. And if your sole purpose is to use this in "sniper" competition, would be better off with a BA. My .02.

All that being said, the order you posted (Armalite, RR, DPMS), is order I would recommend..
 
#7
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Both of my friends have 2/3 of those rifles listed. One has the Armalite SASS and it is the most accurate AR rifle that I have ever used. The DPMS SASS that my other friend has had every match make/model ammo shot through it and wont group under 3/4 moa. That same friend also has an AR-10T that he bought years ago and it is a solid 1/2 moa shooter. All I can say is that DPMS seem to be mass producing stuff these days and overlooking quality control.
 
#9
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I like Armalite, I think they offer a quality product at a reasonable price. Their customer service is excellent and they have seriously reduced issues with the gen 2 steel mags (and available in 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 round capacities). I think for $1500 you might be able to get a stainless barreled AR-10 A4 at an Armalite retailer. Lifetime warranty, MOA guarentee, and 2-stage triggers are going to be standard.
 
#12
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Assuming that a semi-auto is REALLY what you NEED, and that $1500 is your max budget...then I would recommend the Armalite. They have numerous models that are capable of outstanding accuracy, but unfortunately, they are all at the extreme end of your budget.

You can get either a 16" AR-10T carbine or a 20" AR-10T rifle for right at $1500 and both will offer you sub-MOA accuracy out of the box with good ammo and if you do your part. Here are a couple of the ones I am referring to:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_135/products_id/58349

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_135/products_id/68113

You'll be hard pressed to find a better price (or better service) than with Bud's for Armalite rifles/carbines. Their AR-10T rifles/carbines are nearly $400 off MSRP.

Furthermore, on the AR-10T models, you get a quality, SS match barrel with a 1:11.25 twist that is completely free-floated with an aluminum HG (you can add rails to the stock HG if you like), 2-stage match trigger, 2 mags, etc. and they all feature a 1MOA accuracy guarantee (based on 5 round groups with 168gr FGMM). All of the AR-10T models I have shot have met and well exceeded that guarantee. Finally, should you need service/support, Armalite is a great company to work with.
 
#13
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

What sort of matches (like 600/1000 at f class targets, steel etc)how competitive do you want to be and realistically how often are you going to do this? Do you care if your rifle is gigantic and heavy or do you want a carbine that you can plink/hunt with?

Also keep in mind a lot of those competitions are slow fire so you will be hand feeding (one shot at a time). So your semi will turn into a bolt gun.
 
#14
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

7.62 AR platform rule book goes as follows

DPMS has gone to hell

rock river is good...but the parts design is exclusive to rock river so parts are limited..


armalite is really the only safe bet anymore when it comes to a affordable, reliable, off the rack rifle...

bench
 
#15
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Picked up My AR 10-T years ago, when they had CM barrels. The big problem I have with it; more time to shoot it. The only thing I'd take over it is a SASS, and it would have to be an Armalite also. One day, a SASS upper for the lower.
 
#16
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Through work we have hammered the .223 Rock Rivers in all kinds of use. They are doing very well, and accuracy is as good as any up close AR. I don' tknow what your standards are for 'sniper' matches.
Tolerances are close out of the box, and need a decent break-in time. I guess that's a good thing, but just be aware you may have issues in dust and dirt like any similar rifle. I imagine the .308 would be the same.
 
#19
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I would stay away from DPMS. I have heard the bushmaster couldn't make FAL mag work story. And those on AR.com losve to bash the Rock River. Well let me tell you I LOVE my RockRiver LAR-8. I was getting pissed that it had been on order almost 2 years, but showed up 6 months ago and it is awesome. I already have a FAL and didn't need more mags, so this works for me. Since then FAL mags have been hard to come by and I really think Rock River should redesign the lower for MAG-PUL mags. I believe the LAR-8s are shipping more now. The one thing I don't like about it is that some of it is propriatary.
 
#20
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I have the Armalite AR-10T 16" carbine, and love it! Bangs steel all day at 600 yds. with cheap radway surplus.
 
#22
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Armalite, dont listen to the mumbo jumbo about mags. Armalite mags are the most reliable second only to the actual M14 mag. You will get the most bang for you buck with an Armalite AR-10. You have just as much choices with rails and accessories with the exception of an ambi bolt release.
 
#24
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Build your own, it will be what you want and you can stretch the price out over a longer period of time so its not as painful. Going the custom route allows you to spend exactly what you want to spend and you end up with what you wanted rather than a compromise.
 
#27
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Another vote for Armalite, although I love my RRA .458S, 6.8 and 5.56er. Magpul, if you're there, please make mags that'll work in an M14 and AR-10. I have one Armalite mag that runs in my 10 and SOCOM 16....all it would need is the tab on the back. That would be the shit, just sayin.....
 
#28
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

just built up a noveske barreled ma-ten, great gun but put about 2000 into it

for your budget i would build up an armalite,

450 for a lower

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=L10B&Category=8780cda4-b901-4b0c-bc96-d7c6ca2b924a

1049 for the national match/m110 upper

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...a1-afcb5ddcc9ba

incredible value, and if i wasnt set on using Pmags, i would of gone this route

ironically armalite sells this model as a complete rifle for 2300 dollars,
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...a0-49488ec48776
 
#29
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

Thanks for all the help guys, leaning towards Armalite, the upper and lower is a good idea, you don't pay Fed excise tax like you do on a complete rifle.
 
#32
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

My dpms lr 308 has been great. Shot a dime size group out of the box with winchester 150gr soft points. Has done nothing but get better with the handloads.
 
#33
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

here ya go my friend, in my opinion this rifle will out perform all others, and more than fulfill your every desire in a .308/7.62 NATO

A VERY GOOD RIFLE

120_1_.jpg



Caliber: 7.62 NATO
Barrel Length: 12 & 16" (Med-Light),
18"(Med),
20"(Heavy)
Barrel Construction: Cold Rotary
Hammer Forged
Weight (unloaded): 16" barrel: 9.5 lbs;
18" barrel: 10.5 lbs;
20" barrel: 11.25 lbs
Length (overall length): 37.5-40.8"
(16" barrel)
40.5-41.5" (20" barrel)
Rate of Fire:55 RPM (Sustained Rate of
Fire)
Rifling: 1/10" RH
1/11.25" RH (Optional)
Stock:12" & 16": 6 Position Collapsible
VLTOR EMod
18": MagPul UBR
20": MagPul PRS
Pistol Grip: MagPul MIAD
Sights: Folding BUIS
Magazine: 5, 10, 20 Round Mags
Available- One 20 round
mag shipped with each
gun where allowed by law
Trigger: 12" & 16" Enhanced Mil-Spec;
18" Non-adjustable Geissele;
20" Adjustable Geissele
Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider:
7.62 NATO 5/8 X 24 TPI

The R.E.P.R. rifle utilizes the patented self-regulating, short-stroke gas-piston operating.
 
#34
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here ya go my friend, in my opinion this rifle will out perform all others, and more than fulfill your every desire in a .308/7.62 NATO

A VERY GOOD RIFLE

120_1_.jpg



Caliber: 7.62 NATO
Barrel Length: 12 & 16" (Med-Light),
18"(Med),
20"(Heavy)
Barrel Construction: Cold Rotary
Hammer Forged
Weight (unloaded): 16" barrel: 9.5 lbs;
18" barrel: 10.5 lbs;
20" barrel: 11.25 lbs
Length (overall length): 37.5-40.8"
(16" barrel)
40.5-41.5" (20" barrel)
Rate of Fire:55 RPM (Sustained Rate of
Fire)
Rifling: 1/10" RH
1/11.25" RH (Optional)
Stock:12" & 16": 6 Position Collapsible
VLTOR EMod
18": MagPul UBR
20": MagPul PRS
Pistol Grip: MagPul MIAD
Sights: Folding BUIS
Magazine: 5, 10, 20 Round Mags
Available- One 20 round
mag shipped with each
gun where allowed by law
Trigger: 12" & 16" Enhanced Mil-Spec;
18" Non-adjustable Geissele;
20" Adjustable Geissele
Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider:
7.62 NATO 5/8 X 24 TPI

The R.E.P.R. rifle utilizes the patented self-regulating, short-stroke gas-piston operating. </div></div>

Did you even read the OP and see his price range? Obviously not.
 
#35
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you even read the OP and see his price range? Obviously not. </div></div>

+1


I picked up a DPMS 16" 308 for my father last year. I wanna say i paid 1150 for it. For some reason it hits 1MOA out to 550 no problem right out of the box(with 175's). Never had any problems with it.

K
 
#36
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

im sure the REPR is a good rifle and all but lets stop pretending like there is any magic to high dollar Ars in 308

component to componet there is very little diffrence between a 1500 dollar armalite and a 5000 dollar knights

AR's essentially come down to 3 things, barrel,trigger, and mags, everything else is just an option.


knights has a longer gas system and a dimpled barrel,
the OBR has a canted rail,
the REPR has a piston,
the LMT has an MRP upper,

these innovations are nice, and may make shooting easier/more enjoyable, but its my opinion out of all of the 308 AR's there is no paticular rifle that will outperform the other give a simalar configuration
 
#37
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xp100man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Team, What RRA do you have at the FFL</div></div>

mine is the 26" varmint but they are cutting the barrel to 22" and threading for r&d brake so its alittle less barrel heavy for position shooting. pretty excited going to go get it today.
 
#38
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I would go with the Armalite platform. If it is in your budget get an Armalite lower and get a Noveske upper. I hear their barrels are extremely accurate. I cannot give you much experience on Noveske but I did own a Super SASS at one time and was not impressed with the accuracy. I currently own a REPR now.
 
#39
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here ya go my friend, in my opinion this rifle will out perform all others, and more than fulfill your every desire in a .308/7.62 NATO

A VERY GOOD RIFLE
</div></div>

Only one problem: that rifle costs more than TWICE what his budget is. The OP clearly stated his budget. Not everyone wants/needs/can afford something like that.

ETA: It would really simplify things if Magpul started making Armalite pattern magazines. That still in a big thorn in my side. I'd love to have locally available, cheap and effective magazines for my AR-10. Heck, I'm not sure if there is any place in the state that stocks Armalite AR-10 mags.
 
#40
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I've had Armalite and DPMS. The Armalite's that I've owned (2 of them) had lousy accuracy. But they were dependable.

The DPMS's that I've owned were accurate, but not dependable at all.

The Rock River's have been outstanding in every catagory. Reliability has been 100%. Here's a couple of groups that I shot with my LAR-8 Varmint 26" version:

This is 10 shots and includes the first clean/cold bore shot:

a4c40ae18eb6a8f893c5a294.jpg


This is a 5 shot group, including the first cold/dirty barrel shot:

DSC_0106.jpg



My 16" LAR-8 is almost as accurate.

They are great rifles!
 
#41
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

I've never seen a match barreled Armalite that wouldn't shoot sub moa, not that I've seen all that many. Both my AR10's are completely reliable. IMO, fit and finish is well above DPMS and beter than RR.

okie
 
#42
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never seen a match barreled Armalite that wouldn't shoot sub moa, not that I've seen all that many. Both my AR10's are completely reliable. IMO, fit and finish is well above DPMS and beter than RR.

okie </div></div>

Why would anyone even bother to comment on "fit and finish" in regards to a weapon designed for combat like an AR?
 
#44
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kevin7714</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I picked up a DPMS 16" 308 for my father last year. I wanna say i paid 1150 for it. For some reason it hits 1MOA out to 550 no problem right out of the box(with 175's). Never had any problems with it.

K </div></div>

There are lots of people out there using DPMS rifles and perfectly happy with them. A friend of mine has one of their 20" models (Tac 20) 4 railed handguard that he bought used for 900 and it shoots great. Very good rifle for not a lot of money.

For 1500$ and limited to only factory parts I would probably still go with the Armalite National Match upper and an Armalite lower though.
 
#45
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

yaa, i saw it, whoop-dee-doo, i thought i would throw out this info in case the OP may want to save a few more months and get the best, i have settled for second best at times and wish i had waited till i had the few extra hundred dollars to get the best. that is why i own a stable full of Colts plus several LWRC's and LWRCI's

you can brag about your Hesse all you want, but i will always go for quality AND dependability.
 
#46
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Piston Pete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yaa, i saw it, whoop-dee-doo, i thought i would throw out this info in case the OP may want to save a few more months and get the best, i have settled for second best at times and wish i had waited till i had the few extra hundred dollars to get the best. that is why i own a stable full of Colts plus several LWRC's and LWRCI's

you can brag about your Hesse all you want, but i will always go for quality AND dependability. </div></div>

So the .308 ARs that don't cost well over 3k are hesse's now?

Define how that overpriced rifle you just posted is "the best". I could build a rifle using the best components for 1-1.5k less or even get a GAP AR10 for less.
 
#47
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

The JP might be a fine AR, but the OP already stated his budget above. The JP would triple it. I highly doubt that he cannot achieve similar accuracy as your AR within his budget.

Jason
 
#48
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never seen a match barreled Armalite that wouldn't shoot sub moa, not that I've seen all that many. Both my AR10's are completely reliable. IMO, fit and finish is well above DPMS and beter than RR.

okie </div></div>

Why would anyone even bother to comment on "fit and finish" in regards to a weapon designed for combat like an AR?

</div></div>

Kinda hard to believe I'm really gonna have to explain this. Fit and finnish are a direct result of good quality control as is "reliability", goes hand in hand so to speak. How much slop is ok in your bolt and CG, threads in the upper, trigger? Want a little movement between your upper and lower right before the trigger breaks? Many rifles were originally designed for combat, thats no excuse for bad fit. The OP wants this rifle for comps.

okie
 
#49
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

just an observation

We use SR25/mk11/m110's
the canadians use armalite AR10's
the british use LMT's
some SF guys use larues in compition

all three rifles are good to go, there is a somwhat large spread in price between the 4 rifle. but at the end of the day they are all combat proven, issued weapons.

somthing incidently that LWRC can not claim with the REPR.

stating you will see some quantifiable diffrence in preformance between models is rediculous.

im not saying that the REPR isnt a good rifle, but alot of times we put to much into the little cosmetic or ergonomic changes that seem to add an extra thousand dollars to the price of a rifle

although i have seen alot of people talk about issues with ar10s and DMPS's, i read alot about issues with our SR25/mk11/m110. a rifle which people will hold as the gold standard.



 
#50
Re: Armalite, Rock River or DPMS help me choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never seen a match barreled Armalite that wouldn't shoot sub moa, not that I've seen all that many. Both my AR10's are completely reliable. IMO, fit and finish is well above DPMS and beter than RR.

okie </div></div>

Why would anyone even bother to comment on "fit and finish" in regards to a weapon designed for combat like an AR?

</div></div>

Kinda hard to believe I'm really gonna have to explain this. Fit and finnish are a direct result of good quality control as is "reliability", goes hand in hand so to speak. How much slop is ok in your bolt and CG, threads in the upper, trigger? Want a little movement between your upper and lower right before the trigger breaks? Many rifles were originally designed for combat, thats no excuse for bad fit. The OP wants this rifle for comps.

okie </div></div>

Fit and finish have no result on functionality.

For example, Colt has a reputation for not being the most cosmetically perfect ARs out there but are known for their reliability. A loose upper to lower fit has no impact on accuracy either. The fit is supposed to be somewhat loose so that you can eaily separate the upper and lower receivers. I have both an AR15 and AR10 with absolutely no upper/lower slop and they are much harder to take apart then a regular rifle with a little bit of play. Until someone can post some before and after shot groups in regards to tightening up the receivers and the after group is considerably better I will continue to scoff at anyone who cares about the upper/lower fit on ARs.
 
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