Wow, what a clusterfuck of a thread. There are some really solid ideas here and I believe Lowlight is on the right track, but too many aren't tracking and that detracts from the entire flow of the thread. I think much can be learned from taking note of organizations that have ORGANIZED national level matches now and have been running them successfully for years. Take USPSA for example; they have a classification system comprised of standards drills that are shot by competitors all over the country. The drill is exactly the same for everyone. Target distance, target spacing, even target height from the ground. All have diagrams so they can be constructed equally for everyone. If each local, state, and regional match started out with a dozen or so simple "standards" drills a classification system would be easy to put together and would take little in resources to maintain. USPSA, IDPA, and the NRA have figured it out, why can't we?
If your match is an "invitational only" and not open to anyone wanting to attend who signs up in time, you shouldn't be considered a national level match. You're a buddy putting on a match for buddies.
If your match can't get shots beyond 800 yards, you're not a national "level" long range rifle match.
If you shoot more paper than steel, you're not a national level match.
There is nothing wrong with having a regional match status, check the ego at the door. It's about having rifle matches so that we can all enjoy shooting. A friend and I started doing a long range match back in 2007. We spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying steel and landscaping a piece of property to make it suitable. The first year was tough for all involved. We learned, we grew, we got better, and so did our match. We lost a lot of personal money with that match, but we did it for the right reasons.
If everyone would take a step back and keep this thing as simple as possible to start with, then let it evolve, it could turn into something incredible.
I'm in favor of power factor style divisions instead of velocity. A .308 shooting 155's @ 3050fps isn't in the same league as a 300WM shooting 190's @ 3100 fps, nor is it comparable to a 6.5 shooting a 140gr bullet @ 2850 fps in the wind, but equal in elevation. To make it fair among calibers though BC should be a factor and we can give it a "Ballistic Advantage score".
Bullet weight x mv = pf
The 308 with 155 @ 3050 would have a pf of 472.75
The 300 WM 190 3100 fps = 589 pf
The 6.5 140 2850 = 399 pf
The above doesn't work as it gives the advantage to the 308 over the 6.5 and we all know that isn't the case. Yet, add in the BC and call it the Ballistic Advantage score and everything starts to make more sense.
bullet weight x mv x BC = BA score
155.5 Berger FB BC = .464
190 SMK BC = .533
Berger 140 Hybrid BC = .618
223 80.5gr Berger FB 3050 fps BC = .436
308 BA score = 220
300WM BA score = 314
6.5 BA score = 247
.223 BA score = 107
Figure out where you want the cut off to be in BA score. For example, everything with a BA score less than 225 is Limited division and everything over is Open division.
Gas guns are gas guns and go head to head evenly. If you start breaking it down in multiple classes you will only hinder participation and water down the results.
Set qualifications for national level (IV) vs regional (III) vs state (II) vs local level (I) matches. Any club that qualifies can have any and or all with only 1 national match/finale annually. Rules and standards for each level are different. Example, K&M could hold all 4 levels at their facility. Some facilities don't have the range distance or space to accommodate number of shooters available to hold anything more than a monthly or Level I match.
Keep it simple, it will take it's course.
Elect a director for each region that will represent the people of that region and vote on rules.
Begin design on a set of "classifier stages" that represent basic firearms handling/manipulation/safety/accuracy/speed that can be held at any level match so that the classification system can get established.
It's a start, and that's what the TRL needs at this point.
And just because I choose not to post doesn't mean I'm banned, it just means that I don't have much to contribute to a conversation where most think they already know the answers. From the looks of this thread, many are clueless.
Rob O and Tony G shoot multiple disciplines in firearm competitions and much could be learned if you LISTEN/READ what they say. They have experience many here don't.
If your match is an "invitational only" and not open to anyone wanting to attend who signs up in time, you shouldn't be considered a national level match. You're a buddy putting on a match for buddies.
If your match can't get shots beyond 800 yards, you're not a national "level" long range rifle match.
If you shoot more paper than steel, you're not a national level match.
There is nothing wrong with having a regional match status, check the ego at the door. It's about having rifle matches so that we can all enjoy shooting. A friend and I started doing a long range match back in 2007. We spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying steel and landscaping a piece of property to make it suitable. The first year was tough for all involved. We learned, we grew, we got better, and so did our match. We lost a lot of personal money with that match, but we did it for the right reasons.
If everyone would take a step back and keep this thing as simple as possible to start with, then let it evolve, it could turn into something incredible.
I'm in favor of power factor style divisions instead of velocity. A .308 shooting 155's @ 3050fps isn't in the same league as a 300WM shooting 190's @ 3100 fps, nor is it comparable to a 6.5 shooting a 140gr bullet @ 2850 fps in the wind, but equal in elevation. To make it fair among calibers though BC should be a factor and we can give it a "Ballistic Advantage score".
Bullet weight x mv = pf
The 308 with 155 @ 3050 would have a pf of 472.75
The 300 WM 190 3100 fps = 589 pf
The 6.5 140 2850 = 399 pf
The above doesn't work as it gives the advantage to the 308 over the 6.5 and we all know that isn't the case. Yet, add in the BC and call it the Ballistic Advantage score and everything starts to make more sense.
bullet weight x mv x BC = BA score
155.5 Berger FB BC = .464
190 SMK BC = .533
Berger 140 Hybrid BC = .618
223 80.5gr Berger FB 3050 fps BC = .436
308 BA score = 220
300WM BA score = 314
6.5 BA score = 247
.223 BA score = 107
Figure out where you want the cut off to be in BA score. For example, everything with a BA score less than 225 is Limited division and everything over is Open division.
Gas guns are gas guns and go head to head evenly. If you start breaking it down in multiple classes you will only hinder participation and water down the results.
Set qualifications for national level (IV) vs regional (III) vs state (II) vs local level (I) matches. Any club that qualifies can have any and or all with only 1 national match/finale annually. Rules and standards for each level are different. Example, K&M could hold all 4 levels at their facility. Some facilities don't have the range distance or space to accommodate number of shooters available to hold anything more than a monthly or Level I match.
Keep it simple, it will take it's course.
Elect a director for each region that will represent the people of that region and vote on rules.
Begin design on a set of "classifier stages" that represent basic firearms handling/manipulation/safety/accuracy/speed that can be held at any level match so that the classification system can get established.
It's a start, and that's what the TRL needs at this point.
And just because I choose not to post doesn't mean I'm banned, it just means that I don't have much to contribute to a conversation where most think they already know the answers. From the looks of this thread, many are clueless.
Rob O and Tony G shoot multiple disciplines in firearm competitions and much could be learned if you LISTEN/READ what they say. They have experience many here don't.
