ATF suspends the "Q" cease and desist order

[madppcs]

Getting interesting

LIVE Q OR DIE

Makers of the Honey Badger, The FIX, and other UNPOSSIBLY badass stuff. If you want cookie cutter, you've come to the wrong place.

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[JLP83]

There was talk that the White House wanted answers from the ATF. Maybe orange man still has a little authority.

 

[IrishWind]

I read an article that Q was putting out promotional material of company employees using the SB as a stock, and nothing like a brace, and that is what pissed the ATF off. Not to mention the owner of Q's personality that tends to rub people the wrong way.

 

[shoot4fun]

Not sure Trump had anything to do with the initial BS. Could easily have been Obama-Biden left overs inside ATF trying to shake gunners faith in him.
We are in fact seeing evidence of the kind of shit democraps have done to discredit, block progress and make several attempts to remove him from office.
Also, let's not even begin to talk about all those around him that have been unmercilessly targeted by FBI cronies over the past four years.

 

[Tokay444]

Fuck the ATF AND Q. They’re both bad for the lifestyle.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Yeah heard about this sometimes this morning.

 

[Steel head]

Not sure Trump had anything to do with the initial BS. Could easily have been Obama-Biden left overs inside ATF trying to shake gunners faith in him.
We are in fact seeing evidence of the kind of shit democraps have done to discredit, block progress and make several attempts to remove him from office.
Also, let's not even begin to talk about all those around him that have been unmercilessly targeted by FBI cronies over the past four years.

I really do see something like this the above being possible.

 

[craigos]

Did you guys see the BS the ATF was pulling.

#1 - noveske space invader and ghetto blaster uses the same brace but they werent SBRs (not upholdable in court)
#2 - the measured LOP at an angle (idiots dont understand LOP is defined as measured horizontally to the bore axis , they even submitted a picture measuring the hypotenuse - morons - not upholdable in court
#3 - DonJr is a Q junkie - called Don Sr


ATF truly is full of a bunch of morons.

 

[Nimothy]

I read an article that Q was putting out promotional material of company employees using the SB as a stock, and nothing like a brace, and that is what pissed the ATF off. Not to mention the owner of Q's personality that tends to rub people the wrong way.

But don’t they have clarification on it that it’s perfectly fine to shoulder a brace? I agree the q guy is king douche of lake douchigan. I asked a question to him on insta and that piece of shit blocked me. I really really wanted a honey badger at one time. And I’m weird about factory guns especially sbrs. They all have to match I would have most likely ended up with a q can too. But now I’m a noveske fella. Fuck that Kevin (I think that’s his name) dude. He’s a fuckin tool. I don’t care how good his product might be.

 

[craigos]

ATF got spoken to - if don wins the election they will retract , if sleepy joe gets in Q is fucked. simple. Spineless pricks.

 

[_Windrider_]

ATF got spoken to - if don wins the election they will retract , if sleepy joe gets in Q is fucked. simple. Spineless pricks.

I think they are fucked either way. This is an election appeasement. Either way no matter who wins, the atf will reinstate their original interpretation.

 

[IrishWind]

But don’t they have clarification on it that it’s perfectly fine to shoulder a brace? I agree the q guy is king douche of lake douchigan. I asked a question to him on insta and that piece of shit blocked me. I really really wanted a honey badger at one time. And I’m weird about factory guns especially sbrs. They all have to match I would have most likely ended up with a q can too. But now I’m a noveske fella. Fuck that Kevin (I think that’s his name) dude. He’s a fuckin tool. I don’t care how good his product might be.

Right now it is legal to shoulder a brace. But would it have killed them to have a photo or two of someone using the brace wrapped around someone's arm? By publishing material showing the factory brace being used solely as a stock seemed to be poking the ATF bear. And the ATF looked at those photos and said "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, the it must be a duck".

And yeah, the owner is an arse. I'm 95% certain when Sig announced their new cans he was the rep sent on a Sig fan board to talk it up. I asked the Sig rep if the Sig mounts would allow the use of a bayonet when a can is not mounted. Instead of a yes/no answer, I got a multi paragraph reply saying the bayonet is an outdated weapon, useless in modern warfare, and I was an idiot for asking that question.

 

[Rthur]

R

 

[Nimothy]

Right now it is legal to shoulder a brace. But would it have killed them to have a photo or two of someone using the brace wrapped around someone's arm? By publishing material showing the factory brace being used solely as a stock seemed to be poking the ATF bear. And the ATF looked at those photos and said "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, the it must be a duck".

And yeah, the owner is an arse. I'm 95% certain when Sig announced their new cans he was the rep sent on a Sig fan board to talk it up. I asked the Sig rep if the Sig mounts would allow the use of a bayonet when a can is not mounted. Instead of a yes/no answer, I got a multi paragraph reply saying the bayonet is an outdated weapon, useless in modern warfare, and I was an idiot for asking that question.

I’m about sick of the idea that If I provoke law enforcement in this country, it’s perfectly fine for them to take away my rights. Or them to go back on there ruling. I say screw that. Oath breakers deserve neither our courtesy or respect.

 

[OldSalty2]

Divide and conquer.

Sigh.

 

[IrishWind]

I'm also sick of the idea of people feeling they are too cool to follow the laws, do stuff to get around laws they don't like, and the Government is forced to respond by restricting my rights even more. If you don't like a law, there are plenty of ways to change it. But ignoring it and doing your own thing? Sounds more like Lefty actions, not Conservative ideas. And if you do not want Law Enforcement to take your rights away, don't do stupid shit that forces them to slap cuffs on you.

 

[Blutroop]

I'm also sick of the idea of people feeling they are too cool to follow the laws, do stuff to get around laws they don't like, and the Government is forced to respond by restricting my rights even more. If you don't like a law, there are plenty of ways to change it. But ignoring it and doing your own thing? Sounds more like Lefty actions, not Conservative ideas. And if you do not want Law Enforcement to take your rights away, don't do stupid shit that forces them to slap cuffs on you.

The constitution is law. Anything in violation of is not. You sound like the type that assumes cause someone writes policy that it is actual law. Do you wear a mask?

 

[_Windrider_]

The constitution is law. Anything in violation of is not. You sound like the type that assumes cause someone writes policy that it is actual law. Do you wear a mask?

Exactly. An unjust law is no law and we are duty bound to nullify it.

 

[AFancyPenguin]

I'm also sick of the idea of people feeling they are too cool to follow the laws, do stuff to get around laws they don't like, and the Government is forced to respond by restricting my rights even more. If you don't like a law, there are plenty of ways to change it. But ignoring it and doing your own thing? Sounds more like Lefty actions, not Conservative ideas. And if you do not want Law Enforcement to take your rights away, don't do stupid shit that forces them to slap cuffs on you.

What? Its called civil disobedience. It has nothing to do with feeling "cool". How have your rights been stripped more by this? Do you have another method that is realistically obtainable by people without trust funds? Hypothetical here - so let's say AR15s get banned. Law requires you to turn them in. Are you first in line? I don't get this line of thinking.

 

[Tokay444]

I'm also sick of the idea of people feeling they are too cool to follow the laws, do stuff to get around laws they don't like, and the Government is forced to respond by restricting my rights even more. If you don't like a law, there are plenty of ways to change it. But ignoring it and doing your own thing? Sounds more like Lefty actions, not Conservative ideas. And if you do not want Law Enforcement to take your rights away, don't do stupid shit that forces them to slap cuffs on you.

Where do you draw the line? How many rights are you willing to give up before you won’t give up anymore?

 

[Blutroop]

Exactly. An unjust law is no law and we are duty bound to nullify it.

And a lot of us are under oath to the constitution. Lines are being formed in the sand.

 

[Blutroop]

Where do you draw the line? How many rights are you willing to give up before you won’t give up anymore?

This people must decide for themselves. Many took a stand already and are no more. Prepare while you decide. If you wait too long the decision will be made for you.

 

[plong]

This thread is trending toward full retard IMHO (imagine that happening in the ...'Pit ) There's definitely a few things I'm willing to die for; a Q pistol brace...? Not so much...!

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Here is a question...

How many here actually contacted their State Representative and State Senator when the original C&D was sent to Q to discuss this matter with them?
How many here actually contacted the BATFE public affairs division with a well written statement put together by your lawyer to discuss this matter with them?
How many here got on a firearms forum and touted "Not taking mine", etc etc etc?

Which of those do you think actually make a difference?

IF your answer is that is the NRA, etc etc job to do then you have already lost those rights your talking about, it just not official yet.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Blutroop]

This thread is trending toward full retard IMHO (imagine that happening in the ...'Pit ) There's definitely a few things I'm willing to die for; a Q pistol brace...? Not so much...!

When this is everyone’s attitude we will loose our guns piece by piece to regulations instead of fighting. America wasn’t created by passive people that will just bend over and let policy turn to law then to tyranny

 

[silentwoods]

A lot of people died for an idea.
A lot of other people died for a belief.

You either get it or you don't. Many will continue to redraw their lines to prevent fighting for both.. probably most in fact.

1770s' comes to mind rather quickly.

 

[E. Bryant]

Gotta admit that I'm clueless how I would respond to that ATF letter if I were running Q. Do you put the pistol back in production, get a bunch more of them in customers' hands, and then have the ATF decide in another 60 days that these are NFA SBRs? Or do you hold off and miss out on lucrative sales of a flagship product? It's a fucked-up situation.

 

[IrishWind]

If you have to ask, the US Constitution is law. You might want to find a copy and actually read it. It authorizes the US Congress to create laws under it's authority. Congress writes the laws, and the President signs them. And if someone disagrees and believes the laws are unconstitutional, they can either write Congress and get them to repeal the law, or sue and have the Courts rule the law as unconstitutional. Finding a Constitutional Law class taught by lawyers who practiced that field might be a lot more enlightening for you than some random alt-right types from a conspiracy theory board.

If you honestly believe the NFA and other gun control acts are unconstitutional, what have you done about it? Seriously. Posting on a gunboard and making yourself sound tough isn't doing shit. Saying fuck it, I'm going to do 'civil disobiedince' isn't fixing the problem either. Also claiming you will violently resist the government isn't civil. Unless you also think the ANTIFA/BLM riots are civil too. You might want to read up on Henry David Thoreau, the guy who coined the phrase civil disobiedence. He was happy to go to jail for his principles. Anyone really wanting to go to prison as protest? Because that is what he, and people like Ghandi, MLK, Rosa Parks, and others who actually practice civil disobedience, have done for their causes.

 

[THEIS]

Gotta admit that I'm clueless how I would respond to that ATF letter if I were running Q. Do you put the pistol back in production, get a bunch more of them in customers' hands, and then have the ATF decide in another 60 days that these are NFA SBRs? Or do you hold off and miss out on lucrative sales of a flagship product? It's a fucked-up situation.

Hi,

You remove every picture of someone shouldering it from everything related to your company.
You overload the www with pictures of wounded Vets, disabled women, disabled men, etc; and not some gun bunny...a real wife that draw real compassion to protecting their family while their travelling salesman husband is away that NEED to utilize the PISTOL brace concept.
Media blast with various minorities, sexual preferences, etc etc.....
Stop the "Super Commando" shouldering marketing campaigns.
Super Commando's draw no compassionate and emotional support from Law makers but telling the elderly widow you cannot have something to protect yourself is completely different.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Blutroop]

If you have to ask, the US Constitution is law. You might want to find a copy and actually read it. It authorizes the US Congress to create laws under it's authority. Congress writes the laws, and the President signs them. And if someone disagrees and believes the laws are unconstitutional, they can either write Congress and get them to repeal the law, or sue and have the Courts rule the law as unconstitutional. Finding a Constitutional Law class taught by lawyers who practiced that field might be a lot more enlightening for you than some random alt-right types from a conspiracy theory board.

If you honestly believe the NFA and other gun control acts are unconstitutional, what have you done about it? Seriously. Posting on a gunboard and making yourself sound tough isn't doing shit. Saying fuck it, I'm going to do 'civil disobiedince' isn't fixing the problem either. Also claiming you will violently resist the government isn't civil. Unless you also think the ANTIFA/BLM riots are civil too. You might want to read up on Henry David Thoreau, the guy who coined the phrase civil disobiedence. He was happy to go to jail for his principles. Anyone really wanting to go to prison as protest? Because that is what he, and people like Ghandi, MLK, Rosa Parks, and others who actually practice civil disobedience, have done for their causes.

The constitution gives us the right to not be civil when we the people decide.
save your lawyerese for someone else.
The best thing about the constitution is it acknowledges God gave me my rights not man.
What God gives no man can take away.
You do whatever you want.

 

[Blutroop]

If you have to ask, the US Constitution is law. You might want to find a copy and actually read it. It authorizes the US Congress to create laws under it's authority. Congress writes the laws, and the President signs them. And if someone disagrees and believes the laws are unconstitutional, they can either write Congress and get them to repeal the law, or sue and have the Courts rule the law as unconstitutional. Finding a Constitutional Law class taught by lawyers who practiced that field might be a lot more enlightening for you than some random alt-right types from a conspiracy theory board.

If you honestly believe the NFA and other gun control acts are unconstitutional, what have you done about it? Seriously. Posting on a gunboard and making yourself sound tough isn't doing shit. Saying fuck it, I'm going to do 'civil disobiedince' isn't fixing the problem either. Also claiming you will violently resist the government isn't civil. Unless you also think the ANTIFA/BLM riots are civil too. You might want to read up on Henry David Thoreau, the guy who coined the phrase civil disobiedence. He was happy to go to jail for his principles. Anyone really wanting to go to prison as protest? Because that is what he, and people like Ghandi, MLK, Rosa Parks, and others who actually practice civil disobedience, have done for their causes.

And I have every right to defend my self, family, and property with as much violence as I can possibly muster. You be civil when your under attack and see how that works for ya

 

[IrishWind]

The constitution gives us the right to not be civil when we the people decide.
...

I might have missed that one. I have a copy of the US Constitution right here. Can you tell me where it is in there?
And our rights have already been infringe. What are you doing about it?

I already know the answers to both, but humor me. Please. I need a good laugh

 

[Blutroop]

I might have missed that one. I have a copy of the US Constitution right here. Can you tell me where it is in there?
And our rights have already been infringe. What are you doing about it?

I already know the answers to both, but humor me. Please. I need a good laugh

Why don’t you show me how policy is law then I will show you how foolish people can’t even interpret something written for laymen in common language.
Better yet explain to me how atf wants to make all this stink over a ar with a brace on it yet it’s been proven with repeated case dismissals that a ar lower receiver doesn’t meet the Federal definition of... a receiver .

 

[IrishWind]

Thanks for the laugh. And I'm right. You can't answer my two questions.

And maybe you should read this thread again on why the ATF is making an issue over Q's brace.

 

[IrishWind]

And I would show you how an ATF opinion when put into the Code of Federal Regulation is legal, how the CFR fits into the US Code, and how the Courts have ruled CFR legal with the force of law under the US Constitution. I could even give you the case citations too. But that is all legalese, and you stated it is too much for you.

 

[OldSalty2]

I get what you say but the judicial branch has morphed into actively participating in legislature. Not just interpreting law but ruling on what they "feel" is best based on persoanl beliefs and biases.

If you cannot acknowledge that, then the other points (for which I actually fundamentally agree with) lose some "bite".

 

[AFancyPenguin]

And I would show you how an ATF opinion when put into the Code of Federal Regulation is legal, how the CFR fits into the US Code, and how the Courts have ruled CFR legal with the force of law under the US Constitution. I could even give you the legal citations too. But that is all legalese, and you stated it is too much for you.

Nobody gives a shit. Go back to licking boots.

 

[IrishWind]

Nobody gives a shit. Go back to licking boots.

What a great, cohesive arguement. I would look forward to seeing you do something worthwile, but hiding in a basement insulting people seems to be all you are good for.

 

[AFancyPenguin]

What a great, cohesive arguement. I would look forward to seeing you do something worthwile, but hiding in a basement insulting people seems to be all you are good for.

You haven't provided a single cohesive argument yourself other than bitching amd stomping your feet about everyone not following the rules. Go follow the rules then. Nobody cares.

 

[BytorJr]

Hi,

You remove every picture of someone shouldering it from everything related to your company.
You overload the www with pictures of wounded Vets, disabled women, disabled men, etc; and not some gun bunny...a real wife that draw real compassion to protecting their family while their travelling salesman husband is away that NEED to utilize the PISTOL brace concept.
Media blast with various minorities, sexual preferences, etc etc.....
Stop the "Super Commando" shouldering marketing campaigns.
Super Commando's draw no compassionate and emotional support from Law makers but telling the elderly widow you cannot have something to protect yourself is completely different.

Sincerely,
Theis

I think this follows as to what one wise sage on here said once (or twice), gun owners are some of their own worst enemies. Well, I had a nice follow up; but sanity prevailed.

 

[Blutroop]

And I would show you how an ATF opinion when put into the Code of Federal Regulation is legal, how the CFR fits into the US Code, and how the Courts have ruled CFR legal with the force of law under the US Constitution. I could even give you the case citations too. But that is all legalese, and you stated it is too much for you.

We are supposed to be on the same side. I could use your help. I’m being charged with a unconstitutional law right now and I am not sure if I can in clear conscience enter a plea if I don’t feel it’s constitutional. I have a pregnant wife with gestational diabetes and 2 little ones in a hotel right now and with my ptsd and constantly feeling like the gov is out to take our rights don’t help me sleep at night. I cannot get good sleep stuck in the middle of town. (Even small towns now.)
@IrishWind We need people like you in this fight. We need to work on our united front though. Your the type to follow @THEIS advise and be very suggsessful. I’m the type that prepares, try’s to remember and refresh training, and try to not get in trouble until it’s time. If you can help or any lawyer minded person please pm me.

 

[Blutroop]

And I would show you how an ATF opinion when put into the Code of Federal Regulation is legal, how the CFR fits into the US Code, and how the Courts have ruled CFR legal with the force of law under the US Constitution. I could even give you the case citations too. But that is all legalese, and you stated it is too much for you.

And we are obviously on two opposite ends of the seesaw balancing each other right now. I dare claim we are both right.
I don’t even possess the vocabulary to properly debate this issue with you. I may actually be thinking of the bill of rights or Declaration of Independence but in my layman’s mind the founding documents are similar to the Bible in the regard you don’t have to be able to quote it or even find it on demand to know what it says once you’ve read it and let it sink in.

 

[Doc68]

If you have to ask, the US Constitution is law. You might want to find a copy and actually read it. It authorizes the US Congress to create laws under it's authority. Congress writes the laws, and the President signs them. And if someone disagrees and believes the laws are unconstitutional, they can either write Congress and get them to repeal the law, or sue and have the Courts rule the law as unconstitutional. Finding a Constitutional Law class taught by lawyers who practiced that field might be a lot more enlightening for you than some random alt-right types from a conspiracy theory board.

If you honestly believe the NFA and other gun control acts are unconstitutional, what have you done about it? Seriously. Posting on a gunboard and making yourself sound tough isn't doing shit. Saying fuck it, I'm going to do 'civil disobiedince' isn't fixing the problem either. Also claiming you will violently resist the government isn't civil. Unless you also think the ANTIFA/BLM riots are civil too. You might want to read up on Henry David Thoreau, the guy who coined the phrase civil disobiedence. He was happy to go to jail for his principles. Anyone really wanting to go to prison as protest? Because that is what he, and people like Ghandi, MLK, Rosa Parks, and others who actually practice civil disobedience, have done for their causes.

You said it yourself, CONGRESS makes laws, not the ATF........

 

[SilentStalkr]

You said it yourself, CONGRESS makes laws, not the ATF........

Yes, you are right, but he is referring to the backdoor methods that lawyers have more or less interpreted and others have signed off on, giving alphabet agencies full enforcement which more or less means their rulings are accepted as law. I have my own arguments as to why this shouldn’t be as in my opinion this interpretation and re-writing of things, in a sense, is at least partially why we are where we are today. The original documents are simplistically brilliant Only to be muddied by all the legalese action that takes place today. I’d argue that there are so many laws on the books that the enforcement agencies are largely confused as to what is right and wrong. It almost seems as there multiple laws written for the same things at times that counteract each other. Then when someone has to defend themselves it’s open for debate and interpretation as to what it should be. This is how we have lost our way. We need to get back down to basics and I think that’s what people that are simply arguing for the Constitution to be followed are trying to say. Get back to the basics. Everything is way too convoluted these days.

 

[Blutroop]

This is very well

Yes, you are right, but he is referring to the backdoor methods that lawyers have more or less interpreted and others have signed off on, giving alphabet agencies full enforcement which more or less means their rulings are accepted as law. I have my own arguments as to why this shouldn’t be as in my opinion this interpretation and re-writing of things, in a sense, is at least partially why we are where we are today. The original documents are simplistically brilliant Only to be muddied by all the legalese action that takes place today. I’d argue that there are so many laws on the books that the enforcement agencies are largely confused as to what is right and wrong. It almost seems as there multiple laws written for the same things at times that counteract each other. Then when someone has to defend themselves it’s open for debate and interpretation as to what it should be. This is how we have lost our way. We need to get back down to basics and I think that’s what people that are simply arguing for the Constitution to be followed are trying to say. Get back to the basics. Everything is way too convoluted these days.

i could not word it any better. I sound like a knuckle dragger when I try to say the same thing in less (or more blunt) words

 

[Blutroop]

So either y’all all scared off @IrishWind, he actually has a job, and/or he is not really on the side of liberty... Jee thanks I guess

 

[IrishWind]

Unfortunately the CFR is given law because executive agencies are better equipped to figure out some issues better than Congress. Want proof, look at the FCC and FAA. The FCC's main mission is to make sure the elcromagnetic spectrum is allocated such that users are not walking over each others transmissions. Anyone who has been to a third world shithole can probably come up with a story on how they listened to some local's phone call on a tactical radio (that was fun trying to communicate with jets in the air and getting interrupted with those calls). Or the FAA setting up airspace deconfliction so busy airspaces are not flying death traps. Or establishing the basic standards that a pilot and his plane must meet to make sure both are safe before take off. And regulations are supposed to reference a passed law. Agencies are not supposed to just create rules just because.

Does the CFR get abused. Yep. Looking at you EPA. But the idea is Congress delegated some authority to the Executive to flesh out the laws they passed. And the Executive Agencies are supposed to be the subject matter experts (SME) on an issue. ANd unfortunately, the ATF is who we have as the SME. And the NRA is too busy begging to fund LaPierre's lifestyle than to actually listen to shooters and try to fight for us.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Well, I have a job, that’s not being a lawyer lol. Doesn’t stop me from trying to help out where I can. Most of the time when I’m on it’s because I’m waiting on crap to upload or process on the computers. And I can’t do anything until they are done so I just kind of sit here. Not good for my physique but it does allow me time to browse the hide haha. I’m also in quarantine this week so I have a wee bit more time than usual. Now if I could just get shit done around the house Instead of warming a chair I’d be golden.

 

[Blutroop]

Well, I have a job, that’s not being a lawyer lol. Doesn’t stop me from trying to help out where I can. Most of the time when I’m on it’s because I’m waiting on crap to upload or process on the computers. And I can’t do anything until they are done so I just kind of sit here. Not good for my physique but it does allow me time to browse the hide haha. I’m also in quarantine this week so I have a wee bit more time than usual. Now if I could just get shit done around the house Instead of warming a chair I’d be golden.

Once it gets cold enough (up here) even warming a chair can become a much needed job.

 

[IrishWind]

Another good example for the military types: When your Commanding Officer issues a bunch of orders, he does so under the UCMJ. So that order to stay out 'that bar' or likewise establishment, or a added post regulations that don't exist on other bases isn't a law passed by Congress. But ignore it at your peril unless you were looking for a rank reduction, a quick dismissal, and/or a trip Kansas for an extended stay... Base/CO orders are a lot like CFR regulations.